Opinions on Black Hills .308 vs FGMM? 5R Milspec

[Shooter_308]

Hey all, been a long time since i've posted here and come bearing a question. Back when I was shooting bolt guns more, I always stuck to FGMM as my go-to (factory) ammo for both my Remington 700 AAC-SD as well as my SPS-V before I was handloading. Despite the different twist rates, they always shot incredibly close if not the same group-wise. Well, 2 years after selling them and my reloading set up for personal reasons, i'm back with a Remington 5R milspec (24" version) and looking for opinions. FGMM 168's/175's are super hard for me to find locally, which I was going to try first. I can maybe find a box or two, but nothing like I used to. However, I can find Black Hills red box all day every day at my local guys at a pretty good price in 168 or 175gr.

My question is, what's your opinions on BH Match vs FGMM? Are they similar, not even close? How many of you shoot their Match stuff? Just looking or some input. Like I said it's going to be fired out of a 24" 5R barrel. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time, and it feels good to be back!

 

[ChemE1975]

buy the black hills and see what your rifle thinks. i cant imagine BH shooting poorly.

 

[rduckwor]

I shot some at one time and thought I had data on it versus FGMM, but I can't seem to locate any data.

IIRC, BHM was pretty good stuff.

 

[Angmo]

I shot BHM when setting up my scope on my Rem 700. Same hole @100 meters.

 

[Southpaw357]

Its a ford/chevy debate. Both are excellent factory loads shooting the same projectile, it will come down to your rifles preference. Ive had great results with both loads in 3 different rifles including a 5R. Buy 60 rounds of the BH and shoot some 5 shot groups and see what you get. Shoot a 10 shot group over a chrono too so you get an idea of average velocity, standard deviation and extreme spread, if you can. For some, price, availability and brass is a consideration when choosing which one. All that being said, my favorite between the two is FGMM in 308 (not 762). But only if i can get it for less than 30 bucks a box (25 or under preferred), and i cant find it anywhere right now. I would not hesitate to use the BH. Also i only use the 175's and not the 168's fyi.


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[Sterling Shooter]

In NRA mid range and LR match division, shooting 168's at 600 and 175's at 1000 from Blackhills, Federal, and Military match loadings, the best results have been with M118LR, pre production lot A. Overall, it appears that next to that fabulous concoction, Federal GMM 168's at 600 and 175's at 1000 rule.

 

[Shooter_308]

Cool, thanks for all the input guys! Unfortunately no FGMM is to be found anywhere here, however they had pretty much every other major factory match stuff. I was going to try sellier and bellot but at $42/box, no way. I grabbed 2 boxes each of BH 168/175 and 2 boxes of SSA 168. Gonna do some testing over the next few weeks.

 

[dylanmj]

I just spent a day chronograph ing some various ammo that I had and the 175 grain black hills was shooting about 80 fps slower than the FGM 175 grain out of a 26" barreled 700p at 5900 feet. Also noticed a bit more speed deviation in the BH

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Cool, thanks for all the input guys! Unfortunately no FGMM is to be found anywhere here, however they had pretty much every other major factory match stuff. I was going to try sellier and bellot but at $42/box, no way. I grabbed 2 boxes each of BH 168/175 and 2 boxes of SSA 168. Gonna do some testing over the next few weeks.

My experience suggests there is no need for a 175 until you're shooting beyond 600 yards, that's to say, the ballistic advantage of the 175 does not become apparent until you shoot beyond mid range. So, since that load produces more recoil, making consistent control of the rifle more difficult, you might do better shot to shot with the 168.

 

[Keith E.]

BHA is definitely slower than FGMM in the 175 loading. I don't have the numbers with me but you can feel it when shooting them. They both shoot good but I prefer FGMM.

Keith

 

[Shooter_308]

So I went to the range weds, the 168 BH shot amazingly. 175's not so much, I'm thinking when I tailor a load for it, i'm going to stick with the Hornady 168 BTHP.

 

[Southpaw357]

So I went to the range weds, the 168 BH shot amazingly. 175's not so much, I'm thinking when I tailor a load for it, i'm going to stick with the Hornady 168 BTHP.

Thanks for the update!


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[dylanmj]

From memory, a couple of months ago when I shot a side by side comparison of the Black Hills 175 it was about 80-100 fps less than than FGMM 175 (2710+/-) and the BH also had a slightly higher deviation spread than FGMM. Shot a box of each, so there was no question of different lots for the same brand, and no temperature differences of the powder. The numbers didn't really change when shot suppressed and unsuppressed.

I realize that one box does not make a standard, but whenever I chrony FGMM it is always in the same range. I wouldn't be surprised if a random cartridge was off, but for high end match ammo, it should be pretty consistent.

 

[djarecke]

I noticed virtually no runout with the FGMM's and sometimes as much as .004" with BHA. When I straightened them out, one GAP loved the BHA and the other GAP loved the Federal. When I found a load that both rifles liked, my only variation would be seating depth. A difference in seating depth made the group sizes go from .7 to .3 in both GAP rifles.


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[Early Cuyler]

When I bought my DTA, I also picked up 400rds of black hills red box for break in and also reloading. I had excellent groups at 100yds but a good bit of vertical at 600 and 1000yds (left/right was bad too but more likely due to my wind... um.. "reading?"). I chrono-ed a box afterwards and got ES of over 75fps. When processing the brass for reloading I noticed 15-20 pieces had split case necks.

I have since reloaded those cases 2x and each time have had various numbers with split necks. These are either ~45gr Varget under a 178 BTHP or 42.5gr RL15 under a 190gr Berger Hunter. No pressure signs such as fattened primers, sticky bolts, etc.

In my other 308Win, I shot about 300rds of FGMM but never at distance (great 100yd groups). The only direct comparison I can make was there were no split cases after the 3rd or 4th reload.

 

[corey4]

i was at a LGS today that had ~20 boxes of FGMM 168. i didn't look at the price.

let me know if you want the contact info.

 

[nutzo396]

I just ran a box of 175 BH out of my 24" 5R this past weekend. Accuracy was good but to my surprise it chrono'd at only 2450fps. I thought it would be at least 2600.

 

[kraven251]

I've had BH not shoot worth a damn in one rifle and cut a ragged hole with another. It is still 1 moa ammo, but as everyone has said find what your rifle loves and feed it.

I've only been back shooting the last 4 years, and I've seen a considerable amount of variance with rifle/ammo combinations even with the good stuff.

 

[Douglas-001]

I've shot both just like everybody else. I didn't run a chrony but my opinion is 6 one way, 1/2 dozen the other. Used 4 different rifles. Rem. 700P/DSA SA58/M1A SM/M1A NM. Black Hills (175) and the SM made me look good at 600 on Rodriguez. Real good! Can't go wrong with either. Good luck and good shooting!

Doug

 

[gstaylorg]

In my hands, the BH match loads (168s and 175s) can shoot very well, definitely right on par with the FGMM loads at shorter distances. However, I have also observed that the velocity ES seems to be significantly higher for the BH loads than the FGMM. If you're want to stretch things out past 500-600 yd, you might start to notice the difference. Otherwise, whichever your rifle likes best is the way to go.

 

[Pester]

you could order the fgmm online. Seems like it can be had for about $1.15/round in either 168 or175 20 rds - 7.62x51 Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr BTHP Sierra Matchking Ammo | SGAmmo.com

If you can find some of the Asym you might try that as well. It seems to be about $2.10/round however the 40 rounds I shot grouped better, for me, at 300yrds and beyond. Some folks here really like it but I cant justify that much per round on my budget given my results. I think some of the guys, maybe it was Frank, shoot the Asym over handloads.

So I went to the range weds, the 168 BH shot amazingly. 175's not so much, I'm thinking when I tailor a load for it, i'm going to stick with the Hornady 168 BTHP.

 

[Heat_PCB]

I was in the same boat, wanting to compare these two in a new stick. After a few boxes of each, they are grouping almost identically, with a slight edge to the BH. Currently however, BH is out of stock at my local stores and GMM 175 is going for $20/box shipped. The extra .1moa or so better the black hills seems to shoot isn't worth the extra $12/box for me, at least right now. Just my two cents. Both are great factory loads, made in America. Can't go wrong with either.

 

[southerngolfer]

I have owned the 5r milspec with 24" barrel, shooting the FGMM 168's. Very accurate ammo with this rifle

 

[TX_Diver]

Wow. Old thread brought back to life.

FGMM 175s did great for me out to 1k a few weeks ago from a 700 5r milspec. They can be found for just over $1/rd on a few sites when in stock and bought 200 rds at a time.

 

[kilerhamilton]

Try the Australian outback 168gn smk. My savage 10T prints .65" average groups with it. Me novice shooter in the prone position bi pod.
20$ a box at cabalas.


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[pineoak]

Check out DTAC, David Tubb as his .223 ammo shoots great.