Opinions on Dillon 550 vs 650

A

alan98

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 11, 2008
560
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Pennsylvania
#1
I'm now at the point where I need to increase my output for 45 acp, 9mm, and 223 FMJ loads. I shoot a lot of precision rifles and load all of that on my rockchucker which I don't mind at all. However, last year i loaded apx 1800 9mm rounds and 1000 45acp rounds on the same rockchucker during the winter. I would run all through sizing stage, then bell, etc. and it seemed I worked a month of long sessions to get them through all cycles to a completed round. In fact, I don't want to shoot them knowing what I'm in for when it's time to reload :)

My question is for anyone who has experience with the 550 and 650. The extra money isn't a big deal if the 650 is worth it. I plan on shooting my pistols a lot next year as well as 556 FMJ loads out of my MK18.

I do like the casefeeder option on the 650 as well as the powder check die and auto index...but, is it really that much better than the 550? I won't be firing thousands and thousands and will likely switch between the 3 calibers at least once per year. I'm also not in it for a race as I take my time while reloading. I'm just looking for an efficient way to produce more ammo so I may shoot more and spend less aggravation loading pistol rounds on a single stage.

So, for those of you who may have used each? Which one in your opinion would suit be best? This will be my first progressive, but I've been reloading for many years on single stage.

Thanks
 
#2
I have a 550 that I reload .40 and .223 on and I love it. I can't speak for the 650 because I haven't seen one in person but I'm sure it's just as great as the 550. I haven't timed myself on the 550 but I can crank out more than enough rounds with it. I'd say 30-40 rounds per minute easy if you really push it.

Coming from a single stage you will be happy with either one IMO.
 
#3
I have both and like the 650 better. The auto index is just one thing less to do.
Case feeder with the 300 blkout is the greast thing going. Those little case are hard to load by hand
 
#4
I have a 550 for handgun rounds. I think I prepped about 1k 9mm rounds and loaded about 100 of them on a single-stage before I bought one.

The hand indexing isn't too bad, and it keeps your head in the game, if you are loading w/ fast handgun powders where there is some room for error. The extra station for a powder check on a 650 would be nice here.

I've gotten up to about 800-1k handgun rounds/month between weekly steel shoots, and a monthly IDPA and USPSA match. I can crank out 2k easily in a weekend, split over a few hours each afternoon.

Get a toolhead for each caliber, then just leave them setup. Makes switches painless, except for the powder drop, and if money is no option, I'd get a couple of those as well and leave them setup.
 
#5
I got my XL 650 back in the mid 1990s. I've loaded a boat load of 223 and 45 acp on it. I'm getting the changeover stuff now to load 308 on it. A friend that once owned a 550 said if he weren't so cheap, he would have bought the same setup I had. His son still has the 550. But I have never used it. Personally I can't give you an honest opinion on the 550.

Good luck with your choice.
Victor
 
#7
Going with the 650 is well worth it if you are looking to really make an upgrade. A case feeder is mandatory and I suggest separate tool heads setup for each caliber you load; makes caliber changes a matter of a couple minutes and it leaves you with your powder measures ready to rock. I also recommend two tool heads for rifle calibers, one for prep and one for loading. The 650 is definitely the more costly way to go, but you will spend less time loading and more time shooting. Or in my case you will just spend more time loading even more ammo...

For me, the 650 is the way to go for progressive reloading unless a 1050 satisfies your needs. I've loaded on a 550, owned a Hornady LNL AP, and still own a single stage and the 650. The 650 is not going anywhere as it covers my needs in 9mm, 40S&W, 45 ACP, and 223 very well. Only thing being loaded on the single stage these days are the 308 and 260. I am currently playing with 2000MR to see if it is a viable alternative to my stick powders for 308. If it works out I will be adding 308 to the list of duties for the 650 as my 223 loadings for my SPR have proven to be very consistent with ball powders.
 
#8
Get the 650, you won't regret it.

woojos said:
Get a toolhead for each caliber, then just leave them setup. Makes switches painless, except for the powder drop, and if money is no option, I'd get a couple of those as well and leave them setup.
Click to expand...
Good advice here.

An alternative to purchasing a powder measure for each tool head would be to keep a few extra powder bars handy and have them already setup/labeled to throw a specific charge. Swapping them into the powder measure is no big deal....but again, make sure they are labeled.
 
#9
tucker1954 said:
I have both and have found the 550 IS for rifle my 650 will do 800 45acp a hour, the smaller the bullet the slower you go
Click to expand...

My findings, as well. I like the control manual indexing gives me loading rifle.

I'd say 30-40 rounds per minute easy if you really push it.
Click to expand...

I envy you young guys with dexterity and speed. I think 20 or so is the best I can do on the 650...and that's not a sustained rate.
 
#10
Cranedaddy said:
I have a 550 that I reload .40 and .223 on and I love it. I can't speak for the 650 because I haven't seen one in person but I'm sure it's just as great as the 550. I haven't timed myself on the 550 but I can crank out more than enough rounds with it. I'd say 30-40 rounds per minute easy if you really push it.

Coming from a single stage you will be happy with either one IMO.
Click to expand...

I am honestly not trying to be an asshole, but I don't want someone to go buy expensive equipment without a realistic expectation. 30-40 rounds per minute on a 550? No fucking way. You're certainly not going to see that kind of rate on a 650 let alone a 550; that is towards the top end of 1050 territory.

On a 650 you can expect somewhere between 10-12 rounds a minute reliably with some experience, probably will be in the 6-8 round area until you get a feel for the press or if you prefer to load at a more leisurely pace.
 
#11
ZombieMonkey said:
I am honestly not trying to be an asshole, but I don't want someone to go buy expensive equipment without a realistic expectation. 30-40 rounds per minute on a 550? No fucking way. You're certainly not going to see that kind of rate on a 650 let alone a 550; that is towards the top end of 1050 territory.

On a 650 you can expect somewhere between 10-12 rounds a minute reliably with some experience, probably will be in the 6-8 round area until you get a feel for the press or if you prefer to load at a more leisurely pace.
Click to expand...

Best I have actually timed myself doing has been 1k 9mm rounds in one hour. That was with a buddy keeping my primers, case feeder and bullet tray full for me. That works out to 16 a minute for me.
 
#12
Exactly my point, 16 rounds a minute is moving and you had to have someone keeping the machine from running dry of components. A 30-40 round per minute estimate as provided by Cranedaddy is just not going to happen.
 
#13
I have had a 650 with case feeder since the early 90s. LOVE it.

I can knock out about 1000 rounds of .45 in an hour flat. 9mm and .40 are slightly slower (maybe only 800 - 850 rounds per hour :) ).

I also load plinking 5.56 on it. I do two passes. I load mostly once fired mil brass right now (have a bunch of it). First pass is decap and size. I tumble to remove lube, then swage the primer pockets. Second pass is prime, powder and bullet.

I have not loaded .308 on it. I do plan on reloading .300 BLK on it.
 
#14
Thanks for all the responses. Seems to me and most others after reading through this, the 650 is what I'm looking for. Now to do some research on all the bells and whistles for the purchase :). I'll probably get it setup for 45 first and learn with that, then expand to 9mm and 223. I know it will be pricey, but there is no way I can load up a few thousand single stage again! For once I won't feel bad about shooting my pistols often..haha

Thanks again

Alan
 
#15
You can read up a lot on Brian Enos' site if you have questions about anything and it's usefulness.

My suggestions on top of the base machine:
-Case feeder
-Aluminum roller handle
-Strong mount
-Bullet tray
-Tool holder w/ wrenches
-Spare parts kit for those just in case moments as they are not local to you
-Machine cover (If you load in a house, probably fine without, but keeping the machine clean is essential to keeping the 650 running without any hiccups.

Not sure what dies you currently have, but I eventually made the swap to all Dillon dies for the press as the machine runs smoother with them vs the Hornady and Lee dies I had before. Also, a very light coating of Dillon's case lube on even pistol brass helps to make things much more fluid if you use stainless media. Haven't seen the need for the lube on pistol if you are tumbling in corn cob / walnut with some polish though.
 
#16
Ill start off and say the 650 is a great way to go. If i shot more i would have gone with it no doubt about it.

But you sound a lot like me. You shoot a few thousand rounds a year and thats it. I bought a 550 and it has more than kept up with me. In fact i have a bit of an extra stockpile from playing around with it. While i was still learning on it and going slow i was able to do 250 rounds in an hour. Last time i loaded it was closer to 400 rounds and i know it can go faster as that had some small learning hiccups involved that had me stop for a bit. And honestly my arm and back get sore and i need a break somewhere in that time as well. I actually often load for 30 minutes then walk away. Come back and load for 30 more minutes. . So the 550 works just fine for that for me

The case feeder would be a great thing to have. But at the same time ive found with the 550 it is an easy motion. I run the press ram, with my left hand i turn the plate, right hand grabs a case and puts it in, left hand puts bullet on, pull ram. Its pretty smooth option once you get it down.

The main reason i went with the 550b though....cost. Its cheaper all around. Unit is cheaper, conversions are cheaper, you get the idea. And it will do what i want! Saving an hour or two in a year at a few hundred extra dollars cost isnt worth it to me....but im cheap :)
 
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#20
Im going against the flow here and say get the 550. With the 550 I can load 350 to 400 rounds an hour while visually checking each round for powder and load at a rate that is safe and efficient. I've shot with some of those speed demons that have tried to load a thousand rounds an hour on the 650 and they've spent more time pushing stuck bullets out of their barrels than if they would have slowed down and visually checked each case for powder. If. Person is loading commercially or loading a thousand rounds a month then the speed of a 650 makes sense but for the guy shooting 200-300 rounds a week or less (which covers 99 percent of us) the 550 will do the job very well.
 
#21
ZombieMonkey said:
I am honestly not trying to be an asshole, but I don't want someone to go buy expensive equipment without a realistic expectation. 30-40 rounds per minute on a 550? No fucking way. You're certainly not going to see that kind of rate on a 650 let alone a 550; that is towards the top end of 1050 territory.

On a 650 you can expect somewhere between 10-12 rounds a minute reliably with some experience, probably will be in the 6-8 round area until you get a feel for the press or if you prefer to load at a more leisurely pace.
Click to expand...

I was just guessing on the rate. I've never timed myself because I don't care about how many rounds I can crank out in a hour. I reload because I enjoy it. It may be 10-12 rounds per minute, I'll keep a eye on the clock next time although that kind of defeats the point of reloading IMO.
 
#22
I started out on a Square Deal B. It was cheap and easy to use. My Rock Chucker took care of my rifle needs, still does my match ammo. I upgraded 13 years to a 650 when my friend wanted to get rid of his. It's a great machine. That said, there is a learning curve involved. There's a lot of moving parts that all have to work together. Over tighten/under tighten one screw and things go side ways on ya. Too much dust works it's way into the primer seater and it won't be able to move up and down, then things can get interesting! My $0.02 is to take your time and spend time learning how the thing operates. I've seen one 650 that had the entire primer assembly go Kaboom, partly because the owner treated it like a rented mule.
 
#23
What I did instead of the Strong Mount (which was not out when I got mine) was to build a bench the proper height (higher then a normal workbench), so the press is mounted to the bench top and is at the proper height. This allows me to use an Akro bin for bullets, as the press is not up in the air.

The case feeder for pistol rounds is what makes the 650 SO much better.

Also, get a second primer system. Set one up for large and one up for small primers. This way, switching from a cartridge with small to large or vice versa is VERY fast. The longest time spent converting is redoing the primer system.

As you set up for each caliber, get a tool head, stand, powder die body. That way the dies stay in and set up. I have a powder measure dedicated to each of the most common calibers I load for. Again, makes the swap much faster. And I leave the measure set to the proper charge for that round.

DEFINITELY go to Brian Eno site. Good prices on Dillon.
 
#24
velillen said:
Ill start off and say the 650 is a great way to go. If i shot more i would have gone with it no doubt about it.

But you sound a lot like me. You shoot a few thousand rounds a year and thats it. I bought a 550 and it has more than kept up with me. In fact i have a bit of an extra stockpile from playing around with it. While i was still learning on it and going slow i was able to do 250 rounds in an hour. Last time i loaded it was closer to 400 rounds and i know it can go faster as that had some small learning hiccups involved that had me stop for a bit. And honestly my arm and back get sore and i need a break somewhere in that time as well. I actually often load for 30 minutes then walk away. Come back and load for 30 more minutes. . So the 550 works just fine for that for me

The case feeder would be a great thing to have. But at the same time ive found with the 550 it is an easy motion. I run the press ram, with my left hand i turn the plate, right hand grabs a case and puts it in, left hand puts bullet on, pull ram. Its pretty smooth option once you get it down.

The main reason i went with the 550b though....cost. Its cheaper all around. Unit is cheaper, conversions are cheaper, you get the idea. And it will do what i want! Saving an hour or two in a year at a few hundred extra dollars cost isnt worth it to me....but im cheap :)
Click to expand...

This^. I just didn't need the output of the 650 and figured that the 550B would suit my needs just fine. For once, I was right (and I called my wife in to tell her as well!). Some folks shoot enough that the 650 makes sense, and others want the extra stage and auto-indexing. Neither was essential for me. I actually like manually indexing because it keeps my head in the game. I like to personally eyeball that powder into the case.

If I've got all my components ready and I'm running at capacity, I can do about 400 an hour MAXIMUM. Usually, I do more like 300 per hour. That's just fine with me.

What you have to figure out is if you shoot enough for the added expense, and how badly you want the bells and whistles of auto-indexing and the extra stage. That's what this entire decision comes down to.
 
#25
I got both on my bench, I use the 650 with case feeder for pistol only, and use the 550 for 223/556 only, the 550 doesn't have a case feeder and I don't think I would get one for it either, if I only had 1 it would be the 650, auto indexing is the reason why, with pistols a double charge will cost you a gun, maybe a hand too, auto indexing just about eliminates that from happening, and the extra station with a powder check ensures it.
 
#27
I load everything with the 550. I'd like an additional one so I can set it up for small primer rounds. The rest of the conversions are so easy that assuming case prep is complete and materials are all on hand, I could literally be up and running of loaded cases within 10 minutes of walking to the presses.

The 650 is an amazing machine but I know the 550 so well now (15 years) and have accumulated so many of the accessories for it (Shell plates, tool heads, powder measures and powder bars, spare parts, dies: only some of which can't be used with the 650) that I feel I could really benefit more by just the additional 550.

I also have a RockChucker as well but rarely use it.
 
#28
The 650 is an amazing machine but I know the 550 so well now (15 years) and have accumulated so many of the accessories for it (Shell plates, tool heads, powder measures and powder bars, spare parts, dies: only some of which can't be used with the 650) that I feel I could really benefit more by just the additional 550.
Click to expand...

I feel the same about the 1911. Old dog, new tricks.
 
#29
I've got 2 550's; one set up for 45acp, 308 & 8X57 (8mm Mauser) the other for .223, 9mm and now 300BLK.

I started on a Rock Chucker myself but when I first saw a Dillon I knew the Chucker would soon be retiring. I looked at the 650 both times before I bought, but several times I've found cases with split necks or cracked bases ... I too enjoy reloading and take my time doing it, and decided I'd rather catch a problem like that while loading than have a problem at the range because I missed it ... Don't get me wrong, I usually catch problem cases when I pick them up, or sorting the different caliber's (when I pick the up at the range they all go in the same bag and they all get tumbled together, then get sorted) or lube-ing them ... But they still have slipped by and before they get loaded is like a final check.

I must be really really slow as I only do about 100 to 150 rounds an hour no matter what caliber I'm loading ... But since I've always got a few hundred on the shelf of any caliber I load it doesn't really matter.

Lastly, I keep complete tool heads, with powder measures set up as some guns preform better with a particular load than others .... I'm old and lazy, if I could afford it I would have a different machine set up for every caliber & load I reload for.

When I only had one machine I tried just changing out the powder bar but you also have to change out the powder funnel as well so when I went to a gun show & had a few extra bucks I'd just get n extra head, die set or powder measurer ...

... also, for 9mm & 45acp I use a Lee auto disk powder measurer, they are about 1/2 the cost and work well for the small amounts pistols require. A word of caution, to change the disk you have remove the powder resivore which is is plastic so once you have it set it up its best not to mess with it or the screw holes will get stripped out.
 
#30
Been using a 550 for over 25 years and I like it. Also use a dedicated square deal for 9mm. I used to own a 1050. If I were going to spend the money on a 650 fully equipped, I would spend just a little more and go balls deep for the 1050 just for the primer swage feature.
 
#31
Agree on that, swaging manually is a PITA.

I've got the 550 and the 650. The 550 has been idle a while but, if I can figure out a ball powder for .308, will be running again soon. The 650 does 45 and .223, and did 9mm for a while also.
I don't like reloading all that much, so I tend to put it off until I'm about out of whatever caliber and then load ALL the brass I have in a marathon session. Then switch calibers and do it again.
Completely agree, buy extra toolheads and powder measures, and have one each of small and large primer feeders. Also, I have the Dillon primer tube loading machine, so I can have primers loading into the tube while I run the machine.
A powder checker is mandatory, for speed and safety, IMHO.


1911fan
 
#32
550 if you have any need to do any precision work with the progressive, 650 for pumping out handgun and 223/308 blaster ammo. The capability for precision just isn't as good on the 650 vs the 550. Which is why, while I have a 650, I still have my single stage for all my precision stuff.

Honestly though, I wish I'd have either went with a 550 and saved some cash, or stepped up to the 1050. That's not to knock the 650, it's a great machine for volume handgun ammo, 223 ammo ect, it's just not the best choice for precision ammo.
 
#33
Pinecone said:
Also, get a second primer system. Set one up for large and one up for small primers. This way, switching from a cartridge with small to large or vice versa is VERY fast. The longest time spent converting is redoing the primer system.
Click to expand...

I missed that in my list of upgrades worth getting, totally worth it!


Also, you don't need a powder checker, you can visually inspect your charge quite easily and not have to fool with the stupid checking system. You're not going to have a double charge with the 650 and you can visually see if you have powder quite easily. I've yet to have any progressive press miss a beat with a powder drop. The only time I've seen an issue is with someone short stroking a handle because they are not paying attention to what they are doing, resulting in a partial/no charge situation. Same goes for people loading on a 550 or similar press where they manually indexing the machine, as if you are not paying attention it is very easy to have a double charge. But hey, that's just my 0.02. Ultimately it comes down to your comfort level.
 
#34
Assault116 said:
550 if you have any need to do any precision work with the progressive, 650 for pumping out handgun and 223/308 blaster ammo. The capability for precision just isn't as good on the 650 vs the 550. Which is why, while I have a 650, I still have my single stage for all my precision stuff.
Click to expand...

How is the 550 geared any better towards precision work vs the 650?
 
#35
ZombieMonkey said:
How is the 550 geared any better towards precision work vs the 650?
Click to expand...
The shell holders, on the 550 its essentially got the brass riding on a single solid plate, on the 650 the brass rides in a cutout that only supports 50% of the brass which allows for tilt both while sizing and seating.

If you measure cases sized out of a 650 you'll see a lot more variations in shoulder bump and runout/concentricity vs what you will typically see from a 550. A 550 set up the the tool heads that allows the die to "float" a bit can produce extremely consistent ammo, a 650, not so much.
 
#36
If your going to be loading high volume get the 650. I purchased the 550 in the mid 90's to feed my USPSA addiction and make all the qualification ammo for where I worked at the time. While it is a great press, after loading a few thousand rounds every month I really wished it had a case feeder, auto-indexing and a oh crap I'm out of powder/missed a step while verifying powder charge station. I forget how fast I got at loading but IIRC it was around 400 hour. Another item I wish I had had was the primer tube refilling device Dillon makes (forget what its called) filling those tubes seemed to take forever... I ended up going the cheap route and bought a dozen tubes.

Like Pinecone I built a work station/bench at the proper height.

Dillon has been great to me... I wore out the priming system and they replaced it at no cost. Gave me a tip to use a bent needle rather than the little clip it came with for the spent primer funnel. I concur with using Dillon dies as you will run into case alignment issues if you don't.
 
#37
Assault116 said:
The shell holders, on the 550 its essentially got the brass riding on a single solid plate, on the 650 the brass rides in a cutout that only supports 50% of the brass which allows for tilt both while sizing and seating.

If you measure cases sized out of a 650 you'll see a lot more variations in shoulder bump and runout/concentricity vs what you will typically see from a 550. A 550 set up the the tool heads that allows the die to "float" a bit can produce extremely consistent ammo, a 650, not so much.
Click to expand...

At least on my 650 I do not have any noticeable consistency issues relating to flex. If you have the shell plate adjusted loosely, you will definitely have issues. Set it so that it is tight but still allows the plate to turn freely when indexed and it's a non-issue. I've played with a number of presses now and verified measurements very carefully, the "inconsistencies" are on par or less than that of factory match ammo such as FGMM.

The only reason I don't run some of my loads on the 650 comes down to the powders I am using. Large stick powders just do not make for good candidates for use with the powder measure.
 
#38
Loaded 1200 rounds on the 650 this afternoon. Start to finish was 88 minutes. I have powder and bullets on the bench for resupply and use the RF100 to fill the primer pickup tube as I'm loading. I timed myself three different minutes (18, 17 and 17). I was moving quickly, but not so fast as to induce a failure. One stoppage caused by a small primer case. $#%^@&! No matter how I sort, one always makes it through.
 
#39
Sorry to hijack...
[MENTION=6994]EddieNFL[/MENTION], how well does the RF100 work? I've been looking at one for a while now and just have not been able to pull the trigger on one. I've heard they can be finicky. How long / much have you used it? Any teething issues?
 
#40
I drooled over one for years and finally got a good deal used. Takes a little trial and error to get the adjustment just right. Probably took me 20 -30 minutes. For some reason it doesn't like Wolf/Tula LPP. It will hang up on maybe one every 300 or so. Easily cleared, but still am irritant. CCI, W-W and Feds all run fine. It's really not a super time saver, I just love my tools.
 
#42
I was just on Brian Enos' site for some things, and he has a nice thing on the differences between 550/650.

He recommends a 550 if you load less rounds before switching a new caliber. He suggests if you load on a few hundred at a time, get a 550. If you load 1000 - 2000 before switching, get the 650. This is based on the time and effort in switching calibers.

But I am not sure I agree. With having tool heads set up, and having two primer systems (small and large), it only takes me about 5 minutes to switch.
 
#43
kansas said:
Im going against the flow here and say get the 550. With the 550 I can load 350 to 400 rounds an hour while visually checking each round for powder and load at a rate that is safe and efficient. I've shot with some of those speed demons that have tried to load a thousand rounds an hour on the 650 and they've spent more time pushing stuck bullets out of their barrels than if they would have slowed down and visually checked each case for powder. If. Person is loading commercially or loading a thousand rounds a month then the speed of a 650 makes sense but for the guy shooting 200-300 rounds a week or less (which covers 99 percent of us) the 550 will do the job very well.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Kansas. I shoot about 8,000-10,000 rounds of handgun ammo per year in 9mm, 40 S&W and .45 ACP and have never felt that using a 550 was a disadvantage for my volume of shooting. The 550 is fast to change calibers and less of a hassle when fixing problems that arise. I too check each and every case for powder and still load in the 300-400 rounds per hour range. I know that the 650s are faster but as Woojos posted, "The hand indexing isn't too bad, and it keeps your head in the game".

When you visit Brian's site, he has some guidelines for helping one chose the best machine for their needs. It basically comes down to the volume you shoot and the number of calibers you load for. For most shooters, the 550 is adequate.
 
#44
I have both and the 650 is faster loading, the 550 is faster to swap over. If I am loading large volumes or dealing with the chance of crimped primer pockets, I am generally using one of the 1050's though.
 
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