Night Vision Opinions on Swarovski TM35 clip on thermal?

[Sgp12345]

These are on sale for $2999. Has anyone used one or have any feedback on them?

Specs leave a lot to be desired, especially at regular price of almost 5k.. at 3k I’m curious how it performs. Can also be used as a scanner.

 

[joe777]

I was very close to pulling the trigger on one, to the point of emailing Swarovski a few times to get more information on them and doing some math to figure out the pixels/deg of FOV. I will look for my notes but I believe it was something around 50 pix/deg. If i would have found one for $2999 i almost certainly would have bought one. I think they would perform good enough for the features they have. That said, i have no personal experience with them in hand.

Here are the email transcripts from their support:

ME:

> Hello,
> I am considering the TM 35 as a clip on. I have a few questions:
>
> 1. Would it work with a 30mm tube (24mm objective) scope using your 24mm
> adapter? I have a Steiner P4xi 1-4x24mm, as well as a Steiner Predator 4
> 2.5-10x42mm.
>
> 2. What exact brand of 320 thermal core is being used? Is it from China?
>
> 3. What is the suggested max distance that I could PID and shoot a coyote?
>
> 4. Can you elaborate on the high resolution screen and if that is what
> helps when zooming the day scope?
>
> 5. How is performance during winter with snowy fields and sub-freezing
> temperatures?
>
> Thank you,


THEM:

I'll have to get clarification on the answers to some of your questions, but there are a few that can be answered immediately.

1. It depends. The 24mm adapter is designed to work with an outside bell diameter of 30mm, and the 42mm adapter is designed to work with an outside bell diameter of 48mm. If your Steiner products are different from that the adapter may not fit, or may be difficult to seat. We do not test fitment of the unit on scopes outside of our "Z" lines and the dS riflescope.


3. This really depends on the ambient environment, but during a filmed shoot, our marketing team found that as they moved from 400-600 yds it would be difficult to differentiate between a Coyote and Dog, for example.

4. Thermal imaging is effectively a sensor on the front to detect radiation in the infrared spectrum, a computer to process the inputs to the sensor into a visible light image, and a display to project that image for the viewer in black/white/gray scaling to present a usable visual image of heat. A higher resolution sensor will perceive a richer image of incoming radiation, and a more detailed display will be able to present a more nuanced image. Zooming in on a more nuanced image will retain image quality through higher levels of zoom, while a fast refresh rate provides a smoother image of moving objects. If the image of a subject is only a few pixels, however, zooming in on it will not be helpful.

5. The unit is rated from 5-122 degrees Fahrenheit for operation, outside of those ranges you can expect functional difficulties common to cold temperatures.

I will follow up with you once I have the answer to your 2nd question!

THEM AGAIN:

The TM35 is not made in China, and neither is the thermal core. I was advised "The origin or brand of the thermal core is of a proprietary nature for Swarovski Optik" I was also advised that the TM35 is assembled at our HQ in Austria.



So rest assured you won't be supporting China at the very least.

 

[Sgp12345]

I was very close to pulling the trigger on one, to the point of emailing Swarovski a few times to get more information on them and doing some math to figure out the pixels/deg of FOV. I will look for my notes but I believe it was something around 50 pix/deg. If i would have found one for $2999 i almost certainly would have bought one. I think they would perform good enough for the features they have. That said, i have no personal experience with them in hand.

Here are the email transcripts from their support:

ME:

> Hello,
> I am considering the TM 35 as a clip on. I have a few questions:
>
> 1. Would it work with a 30mm tube (24mm objective) scope using your 24mm
> adapter? I have a Steiner P4xi 1-4x24mm, as well as a Steiner Predator 4
> 2.5-10x42mm.
>
> 2. What exact brand of 320 thermal core is being used? Is it from China?
>
> 3. What is the suggested max distance that I could PID and shoot a coyote?
>
> 4. Can you elaborate on the high resolution screen and if that is what
> helps when zooming the day scope?
>
> 5. How is performance during winter with snowy fields and sub-freezing
> temperatures?
>
> Thank you,


THEM:

I'll have to get clarification on the answers to some of your questions, but there are a few that can be answered immediately.

1. It depends. The 24mm adapter is designed to work with an outside bell diameter of 30mm, and the 42mm adapter is designed to work with an outside bell diameter of 48mm. If your Steiner products are different from that the adapter may not fit, or may be difficult to seat. We do not test fitment of the unit on scopes outside of our "Z" lines and the dS riflescope.


3. This really depends on the ambient environment, but during a filmed shoot, our marketing team found that as they moved from 400-600 yds it would be difficult to differentiate between a Coyote and Dog, for example.

4. Thermal imaging is effectively a sensor on the front to detect radiation in the infrared spectrum, a computer to process the inputs to the sensor into a visible light image, and a display to project that image for the viewer in black/white/gray scaling to present a usable visual image of heat. A higher resolution sensor will perceive a richer image of incoming radiation, and a more detailed display will be able to present a more nuanced image. Zooming in on a more nuanced image will retain image quality through higher levels of zoom, while a fast refresh rate provides a smoother image of moving objects. If the image of a subject is only a few pixels, however, zooming in on it will not be helpful.

5. The unit is rated from 5-122 degrees Fahrenheit for operation, outside of those ranges you can expect functional difficulties common to cold temperatures.

I will follow up with you once I have the answer to your 2nd question!

THEM AGAIN:

The TM35 is not made in China, and neither is the thermal core. I was advised "The origin or brand of the thermal core is of a proprietary nature for Swarovski Optik" I was also advised that the TM35 is assembled at our HQ in Austria.



So rest assured you won't be supporting China at the very least.

Thanks for details! I think it’s very tempting, but you can get better spec clip ons (albeit made in China) for the same price so it’s hard to justify without seeing some real world reviews/videos. I assume the high price tag is why there aren’t more reviews floating around.

 

[joe777]

I don't trust china specs personally. It also seems like people are always offloading china thermals shortly after purchasing.

 

[Jgunner]

Euro optic has them for even less, no tax and a free adapter. Anyone use one?

 

[Sgp12345]

Euro optic has them for even less, no tax and a free adapter. Anyone use one?

I saw they dropped price again today… tempting but I have a feeeling there may be a reason they are trying to get rid of them

 

[Jgunner]

I saw they dropped price again today… tempting but I have a feeeling there may be a reason they are trying to get rid of them

I feel the same

 

[SquarePizza]

Really tempting. I would like to read some feedback on one though.

 

[Crgchck]

I’m playing with one now.. I’m not a tech guy but I’d say from what I’ve seen so far, I’d be comfortable hunting small game out to 400yards. I’m waiting on my adapter now and will be able to tell more. In comparison to flur with similar specs, the Swarovski takes it. I only ordered because they dropped to $2,700 and I felt I’ve never had an issue with any other Swarovski product.
My gathering was they have taken a serious price drop due to lack of sales. No one has confirmed but I think Swarovski will remove themselves from thermals and this may cause future problems for support but again…. It’s Swarovski and I can’t see them leaving us high and dry.
I did not see where eurooptic was offering a free adapter but my wife ordered the thermal for me from them and I had to source the adapter elsewhere..

 

[Jgunner]

I’m playing with one now.. I’m not a tech guy but I’d say from what I’ve seen so far, I’d be comfortable hunting small game out to 400yards. I’m waiting on my adapter now and will be able to tell more. In comparison to flur with similar specs, the Swarovski takes it. I only ordered because they dropped to $2,700 and I felt I’ve never had an issue with any other Swarovski product.
My gathering was they have taken a serious price drop due to lack of sales. No one has confirmed but I think Swarovski will remove themselves from thermals and this may cause future problems for support but again…. It’s Swarovski and I can’t see them leaving us high and dry.
I did not see where eurooptic was offering a free adapter but my wife ordered the thermal for me from them and I had to source the adapter elsewhere..

Let us know real world!

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I’m playing with one now.. I’m not a tech guy but I’d say from what I’ve seen so far, I’d be comfortable hunting small game out to 400yards. I’m waiting on my adapter now and will be able to tell more. In comparison to flur with similar specs, the Swarovski takes it. I only ordered because they dropped to $2,700 and I felt I’ve never had an issue with any other Swarovski product.
My gathering was they have taken a serious price drop due to lack of sales. No one has confirmed but I think Swarovski will remove themselves from thermals and this may cause future problems for support but again…. It’s Swarovski and I can’t see them leaving us high and dry.
I did not see where eurooptic was offering a free adapter but my wife ordered the thermal for me from them and I had to source the adapter elsewhere..

Swarovski tM 35 320x256 12um 35mm Thermal Imaging Clip-On Device 72020

Swarovski OPTIK tM 35 320x256 12um 35mm Thermal Imaging Clip-On Device 72020 compatible with the Swarovski Z8i, Z6i, Z5, Z5i and Z3 riflescopes. Receive a FREE tMA Adapter ($235 value) from Swarovski when you purchase the tM35 from EuroOptic! SHIPS FREE!

www.eurooptic.com

looks like free adapter included now until dec 31

 

[JohnK]

Is there a zoom for using it as a handheld scanner or is it all 1X?

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Let us know real world!

Here is one review from EuroOptic

This product is excellent AND disappointing. Pro: - Clarity - ease of operation - slick mounting system - identical reticle zero with and without thermal attached Cons: - does not fit my X5i, but transfers from my Z8 to Z6 beautifully (all 56mm) - terrible as a hand-held monocular as screen does not allow zoom in N America (confirmed by Swarovski rep in Rhode Island, though they could not provide a plausible explanation) I considered returning it, but thought what the hell and kept it. I'm certain that if Swarovski keeps making this product, the second generation will be better.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

So it looks like these only work with Swarovski scopes, I guess I’m out of luck

 

[Crgchck]

So it looks like these only work with Swarovski scopes, I guess I’m out of luck

Not just Swarovski scopes.. they have multiple adapters.. measure your bell and look at specs on adapter.. I ordered a 50,56,and 44mm adapter.. my plan is to make bushings for scopes that these do not fit.. I’ve still not gotten my hands on the adapters “should be here today” but they look like a cam-lock buckle to me.. plan to use schedule 40 pVC with inside cut to fit any oddball scopes and put about a 1/16” relief cut in the made bushing.

 

[Crgchck]

Swarovski tM 35 320x256 12um 35mm Thermal Imaging Clip-On Device 72020

Swarovski OPTIK tM 35 320x256 12um 35mm Thermal Imaging Clip-On Device 72020 compatible with the Swarovski Z8i, Z6i, Z5, Z5i and Z3 riflescopes. Receive a FREE tMA Adapter ($235 value) from Swarovski when you purchase the tM35 from EuroOptic! SHIPS FREE!

www.eurooptic.com

looks like free adapter included now until dec 31

Yep.. reached out to them.
My wife did not add one to cart when buying but they still honored it. Have a 50 and 56 on way from sport optic and euro has me a 44mm comped but they are on backorder

 

[Crgchck]

Let us know real world!

I will update more as I use this more but what I can say now is last night I was easily able to identify a Whitetail at 500 yards a skunk at 100 yards and a rabbit between 150 and 175. Unfortunately any other small game I did not see beyond that yardage.

 

[kersthunt]

I just bought a unit from Eurooptic (during the black friday sales event) and am planning on returning it. I think sharing my reasons for returning it with the North American buyer audience is helpful. Email below to Swarovski US.

Email to Swarovski:
---

I just received my TM35, and I want to love this unit simply because it was purpose-built and fulfills two core goals of my hunting style. I am combining a handheld and reliable add-on to my Swarovski scope, both build by Swarovski. As it seems to work well for your European customer base as a 2-1 unit, I wasn't too concerned about the zoom restrictions of North America.

Unfortunately, after I received the product and was able to test it, I feel your product team let the North American market down, and it's simply not up to your excellent brand reputation to cut corners. This is precisely what your product team did.

They shipped a downgraded version of the product where, at night, I’m forced to use 1/4 of the display screen for my stalking. North American customers have not only no 4x zoom but are also limited to ¼ of the handheld device screen.

An acceptable approach would have been to ship a product where the handheld would have been able to leverage the fullscreen/display at 1x and a 1x mode for the rifle version/scope.

As I said, I want to love the product, and Swarovski should offer your international customer base a choice:


Option 1: Exchange your unit while traveling internationally. I travel frequently to Germany. I should be able to swamp out my unit to a European unit while traveling in Europe.

Option 2: Per my suggestions above, offer a full-functioning US market version/product.

Option 3: Offer regional firmware updates that customers can install. In this case, you are clear, and it's up to the individual if they download a firmware that isn't made for their region.

------
Swarovski's response:

Good Evening,

Unfortunately the screen display is a function of the 1x/4x zoom. The TM35 was discontinued because we can't do options 2 or 3 due to patent restrictions that exist in the US but not internationally.

If you travel frequently to Europe, and are within the return period of your dealer, it may make sense for you to return your unit and purchase a 1x/4x unit overseas.

I have forwarded this information on to management, but as it's a discontinued product I don't anticipate revisions to be made to the unit.

Best Regards,

 

[Crgchck]

I’m running mine on a z3 4-12x50
I only experience a blank in my view at the very top and it’s not bothersome enough to matter to me. It does suck to not have a full screen while scanning but I got used to it very quickly.. had others not mentioned there being a zoom feature outside the US, I would not have a glimmer of disappointment… now that I know there are better versions, it sucks to know we got shafted..at $2,700 I’m still happy and if I came across one 2nd hand in the $2k range, I’d buy it.

 

[JohnK]

Well that’s a letdown.

 

[TXRam]

I just bought a unit from Eurooptic (during the black friday sales event) and am planning on returning it. I think sharing my reasons for returning it with the North American buyer audience is helpful. Email below to Swarovski US.

Email to Swarovski:
---

I just received my TM35, and I want to love this unit simply because it was purpose-built and fulfills two core goals of my hunting style. I am combining a handheld and reliable add-on to my Swarovski scope, both build by Swarovski. As it seems to work well for your European customer base as a 2-1 unit, I wasn't too concerned about the zoom restrictions of North America.

Unfortunately, after I received the product and was able to test it, I feel your product team let the North American market down, and it's simply not up to your excellent brand reputation to cut corners. This is precisely what your product team did.

They shipped a downgraded version of the product where, at night, I’m forced to use 1/4 of the display screen for my stalking. North American customers have not only no 4x zoom but are also limited to ¼ of the handheld device screen.

View attachment 8284653

An acceptable approach would have been to ship a product where the handheld would have been able to leverage the fullscreen/display at 1x and a 1x mode for the rifle version/scope.


View attachment 8284654

As I said, I want to love the product, and Swarovski should offer your international customer base a choice:


Option 1: Exchange your unit while traveling internationally. I travel frequently to Germany. I should be able to swamp out my unit to a European unit while traveling in Europe.

Option 2: Per my suggestions above, offer a full-functioning US market version/product.

Option 3: Offer regional firmware updates that customers can install. In this case, you are clear, and it's up to the individual if they download a firmware that isn't made for their region.

------
Swarovski's response:

Good Evening,

Unfortunately the screen display is a function of the 1x/4x zoom. The TM35 was discontinued because we can't do options 2 or 3 due to patent restrictions that exist in the US but not internationally.

If you travel frequently to Europe, and are within the return period of your dealer, it may make sense for you to return your unit and purchase a 1x/4x unit overseas.

I have forwarded this information on to management, but as it's a discontinued product I don't anticipate revisions to be made to the unit.

Best Regards,

Thanks for this post/review/information! I was considering buying one, but this helped me decide to pass.

I am curious what kind of patent would keep them from using the full screen… that seems a little over-reaching honestly. If it weren't for that, I would probably still buy one.

 

[Khasana]

i have an inssue with swarovski tM35 that manufacturer's logo constantly appears and blinks. it's like restarting over and over again, can anyone help me with this?

 

[Bri0242]

Anyone use one of these? At $2200 it's tempting

 

[JohnnyBravo1]

I just bought a unit from Eurooptic (during the black friday sales event) and am planning on returning it. I think sharing my reasons for returning it with the North American buyer audience is helpful. Email below to Swarovski US.

Email to Swarovski:
---

I just received my TM35, and I want to love this unit simply because it was purpose-built and fulfills two core goals of my hunting style. I am combining a handheld and reliable add-on to my Swarovski scope, both build by Swarovski. As it seems to work well for your European customer base as a 2-1 unit, I wasn't too concerned about the zoom restrictions of North America.

Unfortunately, after I received the product and was able to test it, I feel your product team let the North American market down, and it's simply not up to your excellent brand reputation to cut corners. This is precisely what your product team did.

They shipped a downgraded version of the product where, at night, I’m forced to use 1/4 of the display screen for my stalking. North American customers have not only no 4x zoom but are also limited to ¼ of the handheld device screen.

View attachment 8284653

An acceptable approach would have been to ship a product where the handheld would have been able to leverage the fullscreen/display at 1x and a 1x mode for the rifle version/scope.


View attachment 8284654

As I said, I want to love the product, and Swarovski should offer your international customer base a choice:


Option 1: Exchange your unit while traveling internationally. I travel frequently to Germany. I should be able to swamp out my unit to a European unit while traveling in Europe.

Option 2: Per my suggestions above, offer a full-functioning US market version/product.

Option 3: Offer regional firmware updates that customers can install. In this case, you are clear, and it's up to the individual if they download a firmware that isn't made for their region.

------
Swarovski's response:

Good Evening,

Unfortunately the screen display is a function of the 1x/4x zoom. The TM35 was discontinued because we can't do options 2 or 3 due to patent restrictions that exist in the US but not internationally.

If you travel frequently to Europe, and are within the return period of your dealer, it may make sense for you to return your unit and purchase a 1x/4x unit overseas.

I have forwarded this information on to management, but as it's a discontinued product I don't anticipate revisions to be made to the unit.

Best Regards,

I realize this is an older post, and there is a new model out now, but what are you saying here? When the tm35 is not on the cope, you have this huge blank space around the screen? or is that when it is on the scope? I am looking at one and just trying to get a handle on this. TIA

 

[Crgchck]

I realize this is an older post, and there is a new model out now, but what are you saying here? When the tm35 is not on the cope, you have this huge blank space around the screen? or is that when it is on the scope? I am looking at one and just trying to get a handle on this. TIA

Just when off of the scope it hacks a small screen.. when applied to a a scope, it works beautifully.. I’ve found to like mine better on lowers powered scopes.