opinions wanted: 223, x47L, or 308?

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Winny94

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    • Nov 19, 2013
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    #1
    Looking for a chambering for generic range rifle to shoot small groups and ring steel. (I already have a 7 saum for hunting and extended range steel). Goal is to shoot accurately for cheap
    I have a mountain of varget so looking at
    223 (pro: cheapest, long barrel life - no reason to worry about high strings of fire. Con: most inneficient ballistically at extended ranges, not a fantastic competition round)
    6.5x47L (pro: less powder used than a 308, great competition round. Con: more powder than 223, component cost, barrel life.)
    308 (pro: barrel life, viable as a competition round. Con: most powder used)
    My local range goes to ~800. I don't shoot competitions, but would like to (but I've been saying that for 3 years, so who knows).

    Given the goals - which would you choose? (For reference w/ the amount of varget I have, 223 would give me ~8500 rounds, ~5900 of x47, and ~5100 of 308. So 1 barrel of 223, 3 barrels of x47 and 1 of 308 so x47. But I only shoot 1200-1800 rounds/yr at my current pace
     
    #10
    jsimonh said:
    Why not consider a standard 6br? It's in between 2 of your choices, runs great with varget, has excellent barrel life, and is relatively cheap to shoot.
    Click to expand...
    Barrel life isn't much better than the 47 for less performance plus finicky feeding, just doesn't look like the juice is worth the squeeze for me. Plus I can get a 223, 308 or x47 barrel for about $200 less than others.
     
    Last edited:
    #12
    My opinion is free and you typically get what you pay for; that being said, a 6.5X47 is my favorite rifle to date.

    I have both a 6.5X47 shooting Berger 140s and a 308 shooting Berger 185 Jugs. I typically shoot plates at 500 to 1250 yards. I use my 6.5X47 the most.

    I planned to build a 223 this year and after some research, I reconsidered and went a different direction.
     
    #13
    Winny94 said:
    Looking for a chambering for generic range rifle to shoot small groups and ring steel. (I already have a 7 saum for hunting and extended range steel). Goal is to shoot accurately for cheap
    I have a mountain of varget so looking at
    223 (pro: cheapest, long barrel life - no reason to worry about high strings of fire. Con: most inneficient ballistically at extended ranges, not a fantastic competition round)
    6.5x47L (pro: less powder used than a 308, great competition round. Con: more powder than 223, component cost, barrel life.)
    308 (pro: barrel life, viable as a competition round. Con: most powder used)
    My local range goes to ~800. I don't shoot competitions, but would like to (but I've been saying that for 3 years, so who knows).

    Given the goals - which would you choose? (For reference w/ the amount of varget I have, 223 would give me ~8500 rounds, ~5900 of x47, and ~5100 of 308. So 1 barrel of 223, 3 barrels of x47 and 1 of 308 so x47. But I only shoot 1200-1800 rounds/yr at my current pace
    Click to expand...
    My 47 has 2500 rounds + still shoots one hole groups 1/2moa at distance I think u can get more out of one than u Think
     
    #14
    Jabot said:
    My 47 has 2500 rounds + still shoots one hole groups 1/2moa at distance I think u can get more out of one than u Think
    Click to expand...
    I was estimating about 2500 for the 47, which is by no means a burner, but compared to 5000+ of 308 and 7000+ of 223, it's at least a factor to consider.
     
    #17
    I havent play ed with one yet but maybe the 224v would fill that niche.

    I would vote 308 as a trainer if you wanted to be pushed to shoot correctly.

    I would vote 223 given the range you have available.

    You could take either to a match. If its 1 day matches that are local you probably wouldn't be out of caliber as you would at a 2 day match.
     
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    #21
    Winny94 said:
    I was estimating about 2500 for the 47, which is by no means a burner, but compared to 5000+ of 308 and 7000+ of 223, it's at least a factor to consider.
    Click to expand...

    I seriously doubt you’ll get 7000 quality (1/2” or better) rounds out of a 223. I thought this as well and just replaced a MullerWorks barrel at 2500 rounds because it went from 1/4” to 3/4-1”.

    Maybe I was unlucky.
     
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    #22
    Winny94 said:
    ...generic range rifle to shoot small groups, ring steel, accurately for cheap. I don't shoot competitions but would like to
    Click to expand...

    .223 Remington will work inside 800yds if the wind's not too variable and you're just banging steel for fun. A couple weeks ago I got 4th of 20 people in my local steel match using a .223Rem. Max distance was 820, average was 585yds. Others were shooting a variety of creedmoor and BR flavors and I handload my ammo for $25/100. .223's a capable round and meets your requirements listed above.

    There's a lot to learn about the competitions where a .223 will show you the ropes for cheap. Once you can perform well with a .223 then step it up to the larger, more costly calibers.
     
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    #24
    Yes, it will go the distance in good conditions or consistent winds, but much past 700 that steel doesn't swing much when hit with 250ftlbs of energy or less.
     
    #28
    That's weird, the 4-6 guns I've seen while RO'ing matches have had zero issues. My own Valk has a LHGT Bartlein barrel from MHS...again, zero issues. Your blanket statement that Valks don't shoot well with factory ammo seems a bit overly broad from what I've seen...
     
    #30
    MarinePMI said:
    That's weird, the 4-6 guns I've seen while RO'ing matches have had zero issues. My own Valk has a LHGT Bartlein barrel from MHS...again, zero issues. Your blanket statement that Valks don't shoot well with factory ammo seems a bit overly broad from what I've seen...
    Click to expand...

    Not trying to derail the thread and not saying there aren’t some out there that shoot good... if I have to load to make 224 shoot, it’s lost it’s appeal
     
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    #32
    i have a .308 that i rebarreled to a 6.5x47 L.

    The 6.5x47L is so much more pleasurable to shoot than the .308 but i must admit it's very expensive to run factory loaded ammunition. Reloading is fine but availability of commercial ammunition is important, at least for me.

    I never did enjoy the recoil characteristics of the .308. It's a good and time tested caliber without a doubt...though i am recoil sensitive and i rather shoot a lot longer rather than curtail my shooting because of fatigue.

    My impression is if your priority truly is focused on having a fun, accurate and comparatively inexpensive caliber i'd tend toward the readily available 6.5 Cr or the 223.
     
    #33
    reubenski said:
    .223 on an Origin, Tenacity, Ruckus, or TL3.

    You'll get a good start in Precision Rifle Competition for damn cheap and then you'll be able to swap barrels to that next awesome cartridge with minimal reinvention. There is zero chance you don't get a hair up your ass to build a different cartridge/ rifle in the next couple of years. Future proof your rifle with an adaptive action while doing it in a low investment type of cartridge.
    Click to expand...
    Already have an ARC Nuke. I've owned 6.5cm, 6 Dasher, 308, 6cm, 260, 6 & 6.5 Grendel and 6.5L. gets too expensive and time consuming trying to run multiple cartridges, so looking to simply
     
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    #36
    Winny94 said:
    Looking for a chambering for generic range rifle to shoot small groups and ring steel. (I already have a 7 saum for hunting and extended range steel). Goal is to shoot accurately for cheap
    I have a mountain of varget so looking at
    223 (pro: cheapest, long barrel life - no reason to worry about high strings of fire. Con: most inneficient ballistically at extended ranges, not a fantastic competition round)
    6.5x47L (pro: less powder used than a 308, great competition round. Con: more powder than 223, component cost, barrel life.)
    308 (pro: barrel life, viable as a competition round. Con: most powder used)
    My local range goes to ~800. I don't shoot competitions, but would like to (but I've been saying that for 3 years, so who knows).

    Given the goals - which would you choose? (For reference w/ the amount of varget I have, 223 would give me ~8500 rounds, ~5900 of x47, and ~5100 of 308. So 1 barrel of 223, 3 barrels of x47 and 1 of 308 so x47. But I only shoot 1200-1800 rounds/yr at my current pace
    Click to expand...

    Personally of those three calibers, I would go 47L and cut it to 16 inches if you're suppressed. We lost an average of 7fps per inch on the 47L. Shot the same speed as my creed with a 22in barrel.
     
    #37
    Steel head said:
    I’m really close to ordering a 223ai barrel.
    Click to expand...

    After trying 223AI for a while it's not as cool as I thought it would be.
    Harder to spot impacts, on steel and in the dirt, this was past 600Y.
    I found I missed the harder impacts, and louder ping, on steel, of 6mm 105's and heavier.
    Then started having 88eldm's blow up about 300 rounds down the barrel. It's a mild load too. Now I have to look at other bullets.
    I do realize it's strong points, just didn't do it for me.

    I like my 6mmBR much more in retrospect. Man, it's such a consistent cartridge with a just right combo of attributes. My ES is the same as my SD used to be with 223AI and a bunch of other cartridges I've done. I modded my mag and now it feeds perfectly, that was the only downside.

    A friends 6.5x47 has been great, it's also very consistent, except with 140's the recoil is getting up there.
     
    #38
    steve123 said:
    After trying 223AI for a while it's not as cool as I thought it would be.
    Harder to spot impacts, on steel and in the dirt, this was past 600Y.
    I found I missed the harder impacts, and louder ping, on steel, of 6mm 105's and heavier.
    Then started having 88eldm's blow up about 300 rounds down the barrel. It's a mild load too. Now I have to look at other bullets.
    I do realize it's strong points, just didn't do it for me.

    I like my 6mmBR much more in retrospect. Man, it's such a consistent cartridge with a just right combo of attributes. My ES is the same as my SD used to be with 223AI and a bunch of other cartridges I've done. I modded my mag and now it feeds perfectly, that was the only downside.

    A friends 6.5x47 has been great, it's also very consistent, except with 140's the recoil is getting up there.
    Click to expand...
    It’s that inside 600-700 range I’m wanting to cover.
    223 or 223 AI fit that bill.
    I have a 260 and 7 saum for further.
     
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    #39
    I did the 223 bolt gun thing several years ago. I shoot that gun far more than any other centerfire. It is amazing and sooo fun what a fast twist 223 with hand loaded 80g can do!
    The super light recoil is so nice to shoot all day long. Not so much with a 308. Now if you put a 6mm in the mix I would change my tune. If I did not have a 223 I would be burning up the 6s barrel!
     
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    #42
    I have a 223 and a 308, but would like to buy a 6BR. I could see giving up both calibers for the 6BR if she's a one-holer. 7 saum + 6BR + 204 Ruger or other 20 Cal sounds like a nice stable.
     
    #43
    I’ll second what a lot of others have said. I don’t think you’ll get more than 4000 quality rounds out of a 223 at trainer speeds. My buddy and I both burnt our barrels (1 bartlien 1 kreiger) out at about 3500-3700 rounds running 75 gr ELD-m at 2925 FPS. I will also tell you the the 223 will flat out ruin your fundamentals. I’d have to put around 100 rounds when I switched back to my match gun (6.5 CM) I’d check out the 6br if you can find decent recipes with varget.
     
    #44
    Here’s a 300yd charge test target from the AI I just got from you, 6.5x47. 5-shot groups, upper right and center are as good as I’ve ever done personally. Midway had the atips on clearance so I had to try some. I’ll never not have a x47 in the safe.
    1577805147178.jpeg
     
    #45
    Chickentoast said:
    I have a 223 and a 308, but would like to buy a 6BR. I could see giving up both calibers for the 6BR if she's a one-holer. 7 saum + 6BR + 204 Ruger or other 20 Cal sounds like a nice stable.
    Click to expand...

    I messed with different 17's and decided 20 cal was the way to go, settled on 20-221AI, it's a super efficient little cartridge that doesn't heat a barrel fast, barrel doesn't get fouled up, gets great barrel life, recoil is slight, etc. 22-250 ballistics with 18 grains of powder. It does well with reduced 17hmr equivalent loads too!

    Did 243. 6mmRem, and 6x47L, I like the low recoil, low ES, super accuracy, and barrel life of the 6mmBR better. Aim .1-.2 mil farther out and GTG. I used to cringe when 1000 rounds came by and I knew the barrel was going to need replacing soon with those other cartridges.

    6.5 Saum in a long action, 140 hybrid at 3175 fps gets me along well for windy days. Low node in this 29" barrel so should get good barrel life. I never do long strings with it either.

    30-375R, much like a 300PRC, has had ELR covered but that barrel is pretty much done.

    I have others but these are my favorites.

    Had and have 308's, have never warmed up to it. For me the least shot rifles. Might turn the 40x into a 25GT, that'd be fun.
     
    #46
    I have one of each in custom builds. I hardly shoot the .308 due to poor ballistics, recoil, and powder consumption. Given that you have access to 800 yards and have to select only one, I'd go with the 6.5 x 47 Lapua. Reasons include ability to see splash (and hits on steel) and buck wind at distance. I run 37.5 gr. Varget with 130 gr. Berger VLD's with my x47. My x47 is very, very accurate and a joy to shoot. If you decide to go with the .223 or get a second rifle later, get a 1 in 7 twist quality barrel so you can run the heavier bullets. In either case, be aware of your desired freebore to accommodate the bullets you plan to run.
     
    Last edited:
    #47
    6x45 shooting the 80 or 90 grain pills.

    Since a bolt action is what we are talking about, no reason not to go with a .223 throated for the 80 grain bullets.
    Seat them out farther since you'll have the room, no reason to think you couldn't get get close to 2800 FPS (again, seating out beyond AR15 mag length)
     
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