Optic Choices for a Newbie

[rowjimmy]

Hello. I just purchased my first precision rifle, a Tikka T3x Tactical A1 in 6.5 Creedmor. The range I shoot at only goes out to 1k yards.

I'm trying to find a good optic. I'm a proponent of "buy once, cry once", but don't need the absolute best available.

My budget is flexible. Folks have recommended Vortex Viper PST Gen 2, but I don't mind spending a little more if the quality makes it worthwhile.

I found a Steiner T5Xi 5-25x 56 mm with a 34 mm tube on sale for $1,600, twice the vortex.

I'm no stranger to rifle shooting, and plan on taking some classes to start to learn precision rifle (I have a degree in physics so understanding the technical pieces aren't hard... putting them into practice will be the steep learning curve.)

I'd plan to shoot precision rifle comps and maybe hunt with it.

What would be your best recommendation for an optic fro my needs? (Sorry if I didn't give enough background info.)

Is the Seiner, at $600 off, a good enough deal to grab and go?

 

[A.Redd]

If you can go to 1600, can you go to 2200? Buy a used Schmidt bender 5-25 and just get an alpha.

 

[hafejd30]

What is your budget?

Personally I stay away from vortex PST. Steiner T5 isn’t the same as the M5

I’d be looking at Athlon Cronus, Vortex Razor or Burris XTRIII in that price range. There are others as well

What your willing to spend will be a deciding factor

 

[FuhQ]

If you can go up to $1,600, I'd look for a good used Vortex Razor Gen2.

Or, if you can swing $2,500... This is a great deal, and a great optic.

Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 EBR-7C MRAD Riflescope RZR-42708

Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 EBR-7C MRAD Rifle scope for sale at Eurooptic. The Vortex Razor Gen 2 rifle scope offers high performance features along with state-of-the-art optics and deadly accuracy. Shop Vortex Rifle Scope online. SHIPS FREE!

www.eurooptic.com

This is a smoking deal @ $2,200!

Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 Tremor 3 MRAD Showroom Demo Riflescope RZR-42710

FREE SHIPPING on Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 Tremor 3 MRAD Riflescope RZR-42710

www.eurooptic.com

 

[JDB55]

1)Used/on Sale Vortex Razor gen 2 4.5-27x56
2a)Delta Stryker HD 4.5-30×56
2b)Burris XTR III 3.3-18 or 5.5-30 illuminated
2c)Athlon Cronus Gen2 4.5-29×56
2d)Tract Toric ELR 4.5-30×56.

My opinion, I'm sure there are more.

 

[rowjimmy]

Thanks guys. I got to handle a new Vortex Razor at my FFL's the other day. It seemed the turrets were kinda mushy when rotated, but maybe that's just my perspective.

My budget is whatever it needs to be, but I'm looking for a good "first scope" as I get into the PR style of shooting. I don't mind paying extra to get what I need to make hits at 1k with thew rifle (assuming I execute the fundamentals correctly and do all the things I need to do.)

Basically, given the rifle I purchased (Tikka T3x), and the caliber (6.5 Creedmor), I'm looking for a good scope that will do what I need it to do. I can buy a Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender, Swarovski, etc... but if the $800 Vortex Viper would be fine (folks I've talked to on other forums said they've had good luck with them), I'm OK with that too.

I have a friend that works at Eurooptic so can ask them if they have any showroom models discounted.

I will be taking classes and getting training, I know you can't buy the hits, but I've heard other folks I've communicated with recommend everything for $500 to $3k scopes and I want a solid, entry level optic.

I appreciate the help and suggestions. Maybe I should go with the Razor...

Any recommendations for rings and 20 moa mount? Is it worth buying the rings with the built in level on the top ring?

 

[flyfisher117]

Sounds like money isnt that big of a concern so buy the best glass you can afford. It's always worth spending more. I regret not spending more on some of my purchases.

 

[Dot3]

I’ve been very pleased with my Athlon ares ETR 4.5-30x56. It is Chinese made though, so if that’s a consideration…

Plenty of reviews on it and they’re spot on from view point. $1200 give or take.

I hunted with it a lot this year and have no issues with resolution and light gathering. My only comparison is a Zeiss conquest v4 and a meopta meopro. The Athlon isn’t as bright as those two, but not my much, and it will definitely get me a ticket. The illumination is too bright for a late shot as it washes out the image, but I never even had to use it. One season with it so far

 

[JDB55]

The DLO Recommendations: Riflescopes » OpticsThoughts

This is a list of recommendations from a well respected member on this website who gets his hands on more scopes then most of us and who has a YouTube channel (Darklordofoptics). His recommendations are good and ones he's personally reviewed and compared and he breaks them down into price ranges. I think it would be helpful to take a look at. I will say that after $2000 or so bucks you begin to get diminishing returns for what your paying, I'm not saying those scopes aren't better just that it's not necessary (nice, but not necessary). Unless you absolutely want the best money can buy(and maybe you do, rock on) that 1,300-2k price range gets you a lot of value and puts you in a category where you shouldn't ever have to upgrade. Personally, for what you are wanting, I would take a step up above the PST gen 2. You will notice a difference in glass and build quality if you go a tier up and step into Japanese built scopes.

 

[sleeplz]

Go to liberty optics and add the vortex gen III 6-36 in your cart. It won’t be like that forever.

 

[Jgunner]

At 1600 you could get a used votex amg or close to it. Excellent scope (for that money) and crosses a bridge a little for hunting as its not heavy.

 

[Franko]

I would look at picking up a used optic via the PX as you can get your feet wet and if you don't like the optic it's only going to cost you a few bucks to turn around and flip the scope back onto the PX.

1. Burris XTR3 5.5-30 non-illuminated
2. Razor g2 4.5-27

If you want to step up a little more I would look at:

1. S&B 5-25
2. NF 5-25
3. Razor g3 6-36 (this is going to be rare on the PX as this is a brand new optic but I'm sure somebody will buy one and decide they don't like it)

On the rings and level. I use American Rifle Company rings and flat out love them. MK machining makes a level you can mount on the scope and my actions are all using a 20MOA cant so can't help on the mount.

 

[JDB55]

Optics - **$1500**Vortex Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 EBR7c- Badger Rings

I am selling this rifle and scope to fund another project/toy. There is roughly 550 rounds through this rifle and only about 150 of them is with this Vortex scope. The scope is in great shape with no marks or dings that I am aware of. What’s for sale: -Badger Ordnance SASR 34mm Ultra High...

www.snipershide.com

Posted this in another thread, pretty smoking deal IMO.

 

[rowjimmy]

Optics - **$1500**Vortex Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 EBR7c- Badger Rings

I am selling this rifle and scope to fund another project/toy. There is roughly 550 rounds through this rifle and only about 150 of them is with this Vortex scope. The scope is in great shape with no marks or dings that I am aware of. What’s for sale: -Badger Ordnance SASR 34mm Ultra High...

www.snipershide.com

Posted this in another thread, pretty smoking deal IMO.

Thanks, I'm looking for mil rad, not moa reticle!

 

[Biscuits]

OP, I have the same rifle as you, same caliber too. Also have a physics degree FWIW, that is one heavy rifle if you plan to use it hunting. It's not just the weight. There is also cleaning bits of crud/branches/dirt out of the chassis.

On my TAC A1 I have a Delta Javalin 4.5-30x56 (a step down from the Delta Stryker which is mentioned in one of the replies above). On a hunting/target .308, I have a S&B PMII 3-20x50.

I would say the Delta Javalin is very good for the money, but if you are not strictly limited by budget I'd spend more. I almost bought a Steiner when I was researching a new scope for another new build rifle. I could not recommend the T5 as there were a lot of user reports of problems. OTOH the Steiner M5 5-25x56 gets excellent reviews. The only downside I see on the Steiner M5 is that for a big scope, it only has 26 mil of elevation adjustment. I would have bought it only a used Kahles 525i came up at a good price.

Anyway, if you chuck $1600 at it, I don't think you can really go wrong. The main considerations is what type of reticle you want. PRS suggests a tree reticle. Hunting suggests you don't want a tree reticle! Personally on the Vortex Viper, I don't think a $800, 50mm objective scope meets your "buy once, cry once" criteria. If you ever want to hunt with offhand shooting, which you almost certainly won't with something as heavy as a Tac A1, then you probably want less than 5x power at the wide end.

On the rings with a bubble level in them, I had a TierOne set of rings with a bubble level - it wasn't straight. Just spend $40 on a scope tube mounted bubble level.

On your rail, the Tac A1 has a flat rail. Don't try to remove the rail unless you know what you are doing - it is glued on. A better way of adding elevation to your scope if you already have a flat rail is the Burris XTR Signature rings which have inserts to add elevation.

 

[sleeplz]

Hit up liberty optics and ask about gen II.

 

[346ci]

Mkm had the XTR3 3.3-18 for $1200 new, great glass for the money.

 

[rowjimmy]

OP, I have the same rifle as you, same caliber too. Also have a physics degree FWIW, that is one heavy rifle if you plan to use it hunting. It's not just the weight. There is also cleaning bits of crud/branches/dirt out of the chassis.

On my TAC A1 I have a Delta Javalin 4.5-30x56 (a step down from the Delta Stryker which is mentioned in one of the replies above). On a hunting/target .308, I have a S&B PMII 3-20x50.

I would say the Delta Javalin is very good for the money, but if you are not strictly limited by budget I'd spend more. I almost bought a Steiner when I was researching a new scope for another new build rifle. I could not recommend the T5 as there were a lot of user reports of problems. OTOH the Steiner M5 5-25x56 gets excellent reviews. The only downside I see on the Steiner M5 is that for a big scope, it only has 26 mil of elevation adjustment. I would have bought it only a used Kahles 525i came up at a good price.

Anyway, if you chuck $1600 at it, I don't think you can really go wrong. The main considerations is what type of reticle you want. PRS suggests a tree reticle. Hunting suggests you don't want a tree reticle! Personally on the Vortex Viper, I don't think a $800, 50mm objective scope meets your "buy once, cry once" criteria. If you ever want to hunt with offhand shooting, which you almost certainly won't with something as heavy as a Tac A1, then you probably want less than 5x power at the wide end.

On the rings with a bubble level in them, I had a TierOne set of rings with a bubble level - it wasn't straight. Just spend $40 on a scope tube mounted bubble level.

On your rail, the Tac A1 has a flat rail. Don't try to remove the rail unless you know what you are doing - it is glued on. A better way of adding elevation to your scope if you already have a flat rail is the Burris XTR Signature rings which have inserts to add elevation.

Thanks for the insights! I was gong to order an NF 20 moa rail as I thought the current Tikka rail was just screwed on, but you're saying there is an adhesive involved?

You recommend getting a maybe a 20 moa cantilever style mount with integral rings, or scope rings that are manufactured to give 20 moa? Just making sure I'm understanding your advice correctly.

 

[Billl223]

I've been shooting a Tac A1 for a few years. I've using a Bushnell DMR Pro with a Nightforce 30MM Ultralight Unimount 1.375" 20 MOA.

 

[Biscuits]

Thanks for the insights! I was gong to order an NF 20 moa rail as I thought the current Tikka rail was just screwed on, but you're saying there is an adhesive involved?

You recommend getting a maybe a 20 moa cantilever style mount with integral rings, or scope rings that are manufactured to give 20 moa? Just making sure I'm understanding your advice correctly.

I have only ever used two piece rings, so I can't comment on the benefits of a one piece. I can say though that there has never been a time when I've thought to myself, "if only I had a set of one piece rings on right now".

These are the two piece rings I use:

XTR Signature Rings™ | Burris Optics

www.burrisoptics.com

There are inserts you put into the ring which are slightly different thickness top to bottom. These allow you add elevation, up to 40 MoA. This is a nominal value as obv if the scope is a bit higher on the rear ring and a bit lower on the front ring, the MoA/angle will depend on how far apart the rings are. The up to 40MoA is with a standard ring spacing; with the same inserts, the actual MoA value may be a bit higher or a bit lower depending on your exact ring spacing. With these rings, you can get 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 and 40 MoA depending which insert you put in.

The inserts are rubber or plastic which is very, very hard. But still softer than the metal of the ring. You could not just have all metal two piece rings without some kind of not-quite-rigid insert as they would only line up for one exact ring spacing.

I have these rings on 2 of my rifles and I've bought another set to go on a new rifle (the same rifle the Kahles 525 scope I mentioned above is going on).

The advantage for me with these rings over a one piece ring is:
- cheaper, but still appears to be very good quality
- allows up to 40 MoA (it's hard to find rails over 20 MoA) and this allows you to use more of the mechanical elevation range of your scope
- the extra elevation you get with 30 or 40 MoA instead of 20 will get you to about 1700 metres maximum range, before you run out of scope elevation, with your typical 25 power, 34mm tube scope.
- allows greater freedom in locating the scope on the rifle as you can move each individual ring on the rail

On the rail which comes with the Tac A1, I have never tried to remove it myself. But when I was researching scope mounts I read multiple owner reports of people who had tried to take the factory rail off and realised it was attached with epoxy.

Always like to post a pic; here's my Tac A1 6.5 Creedmoor in action

 

[Biscuits]

PS as the Tac A1 has a forward rail over the barrel, you will need the highest rings so there is clearance under the front of your scope, including for the lens cap.

PPS if you are new to precision shooting, then take time with the scope installation. So use a torque wrench and make sure (using a levelling kit and/or plumb bob) that your scope is absolutely level and in line with the receiver and rail on your rifle.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Just a heads up, we are putting together a deal to offer the Burris XTR III's at a VERY favorable price. Stay tuned for more info

 

[JDB55]

Just a heads up, we are putting together a deal to offer the Burris XTR III's at a VERY favorable price. Stay tuned for more info

I would look hard here original poster, at the price these are coming in at, to good to pass up IMO for the quality your getting.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

If you can go up to $1,600, I'd look for a good used Vortex Razor Gen2.

Or, if you can swing $2,500... This is a great deal, and a great optic.

Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 EBR-7C MRAD Riflescope RZR-42708

Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 EBR-7C MRAD Rifle scope for sale at Eurooptic. The Vortex Razor Gen 2 rifle scope offers high performance features along with state-of-the-art optics and deadly accuracy. Shop Vortex Rifle Scope online. SHIPS FREE!

www.eurooptic.com

This is a smoking deal @ $2,200!

Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 Tremor 3 MRAD Showroom Demo Riflescope RZR-42710

FREE SHIPPING on Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 Tremor 3 MRAD Riflescope RZR-42710

www.eurooptic.com

That is a horrible deal when you can get a brand new G3 for $2400 LOL

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You want a 1 piece mount atleast 1.5" depending on objective with the Tac A1, and most likely 20moa since you can't put a canted rail on there.

My honest opinion as someone who had a TAC A1, competed with it and sold it........

Sell it or drop into another chassis. If you ever plan to work on it or swap the barrel, its a horrendous design with fastner on top of bracket on top of fastener on top of bracket with a few more small fasteners to get stripped. One is about a mm away from the barrel and will be impossible to drill out if it strips, rendering the gun stuck with whatever barrel is on there unless you have a 24"+ drill bit. The guns shoot great even if they are slow, and it needs some stuff like a bag rider and forend weights to make it competitive for PRS type shooting.

As far as optics, I don't think you can do better than the new Gen 3 Razor under $3k. Drop it into a Spuhr or ARC Mbrace and you are good to go.

 

[FuhQ]

That is a horrible deal when you can get a brand new G3 for $2400 LOL

You forgot to list where he could get a new G3 for $2,400...

 

[RKBArmory]

There are a lot of really nice choices that have been mentioned, and I think you would be happy with almost any of them. Also, people's eyes really do react differently to different scopes.
I wouldn't discount the external appearance of the scope. This is an expensive, cool sport, and you want something that will look cool to you.
We've got some good deals on used Nightforce, Steiner, Leupold, etc. Any of these would most likely make you quite happy. As you get better, and learn more about what you need and like, you can change.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You forgot to list where he could get a new G3 for $2,400...

The same place you have been able to get vortex cheaper than anyone for the last 10+ Years.

Liberty Optics Riflescopes Binoculars Spotting Scopes Free Shipping

Liberty Optics, See Better, Shoot Better, spotting scopes, rifle scopes, hunting scopes, free shipping, binoculars, monoculars, rings, mounts, great customer service, always free shipping

www.libertyoptics.com

Welcome to 2010.

 

[Chickentoast]

ARC rings FTW. Exact, and don't slip, for half the Spuhr money.

The XTR3 was by far the best value for the money, but the signature rings are garbage. You will waste ammo trying to get them straight. New versions of XTR3, the i and the Pro should follow and still be best value. The only contender against the Pro IMHO is the G3 Razor. I have both on order, but have yet to look through either.

As far as the higher price points, the ZCO is the next and final stop. I didn't keep mine because I prefer a thinner reticle and love the SCR2.