Optic for Ar-15 "SPR/DMR" build

[JDB55]

Hello,

I'm looking for opinions on the right optic for a. SPR AR-15 build. It will have a 20" barrel and my expectation is for it to shoot 500-600 yards. I know there are varying thoughts on magnification ranges for this type of rifle and I'm interested in hearing your recommendation s and the why. My price range is $800ish-1300ish dollars. I plan on running a 45 degree offset RDS so I don't need 1x, but don't want to go as high as a 5-25 due to the scope making the rifle to heavy. Also, I don't need daylight bright but illumination would be nice for dusk and morning. Thanks guys

 

[TxWelder35]

Viper pst 3-15
Bushnell DMR ii pro
Burris xtr iii

give one of these 2 guys a call

Scott w/ @LibertyOptics
@gr8fuldoug with camera land ny

 

[JDB55]

Viper pst 3-15
Bushnell DMR ii pro
Burris xtr iii

give one of these 2 guys a call

Scott w/ @LibertyOptics
@gr8fuldoug with camera land ny

Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[SirDrinksAlot]

The Burris XTRIII 3.3-18 is amazing if you don't need illumination.

Bought one 2nd hand on here, had an issue with some Debris behind the lens and Burris gave me a prepaid shipping label and had it fixed and back to me in a week. I'd give Burris my money any day of the week.

 

[JDB55]

The Burris XTRIII 3.3-18 is amazing if you don't need illumination.

Bought one 2nd hand on here, had an issue with some Debris behind the lens and Burris gave me a prepaid shipping label and had it fixed and back to me in a week. I'd give Burris my money any day of the week.

Thanks! Good information. I don't need daylight bright but I would like some illumination for dusk environment. I should have put that in my post. But I'll keep it in mind nonetheless.

 

[drewthebrave]

I'm running with a smaller budget, but am really happy with the Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15x on my SPR - the reticle is fantastic, and the glass is surprisingly much nicer than my SWFA 3-15x. If I had your budget of ~$1k, I'd give the Ares ETR 3-18x some serious consideration. Call Doug to see when they'll be available.

 

[JDB55]

I'm running with a smaller budget, but am really happy with the Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15x on my SPR - the reticle is fantastic, and the glass is surprisingly much nicer than my SWFA 3-15x. If I had your budget of ~$1k, I'd give the Ares ETR 3-18x some serious consideration. Call Doug to see when they'll be available.

Sweet! I've heard some good things about Athlon. Is that illuminated and do you know of that's out of the Phillipines or Japan? Thanks

 

[Steel head]

I’m an odd ball.
I run a 1x4 SWFA on mine.
It’s very effective from 0 to 600 yards.

 

[beetroot]

The PST 3-15 is a pretty nice option, not to big and/or heavy. Glass is good and in my experience been a reliable scope.

If you have the budget for a Mark 5 Leupold that's probably your best option for compact and light it the 1500 price bracket.

 

[JDB55]

I’m an odd ball.
I run a 1x4 SWFA on mine.
It’s very effective from 0 to 600 yards.

Hey if it works! I've got a Delta 1-6 on a 16" AR..was trying for something different with this one.

 

[JDB55]

The PST 3-15 is a pretty nice option, not to big and/or heavy. Glass is good and in my experience been a reliable scope.

If you have the budget for a Mark 5 Leupold that's probably your best option for compact and light it the 1500 price bracket.

Thank you, in my research (including Koshkin) I saw that scope tossed around quite a bit. Is it illuminated? If so how is the illumination, day visible?

 

[trob_205]

I really like the Vortex PST Gen 2 2-10.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I run a HDMR II on my 18 inch gas gun. The H59 reticle is a tad busy for my liking, but it has done well on the gun so far.

 

[drewthebrave]

Sweet! I've heard some good things about Athlon. Is that illuminated and do you know of that's out of the Phillipines or Japan? Thanks

Yep, it's illuminated. I believe most Athlons are made in China, except the Cronus line which comes from Japan.

 

[JDB55]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the input. It's helping form my decision as well as educate me haha

 

[beetroot]

Thank you, in my research (including Koshkin) I saw that scope tossed around quite a bit. Is it illuminated? If so how is the illumination, day visible?

Not really daylight visible unless against a dark background but you don't really need illumination for daylight use.

 

[JDB55]

Thoughts on the 3-18 Brownells? Or stay away for this type of build? It's not exactly light weight it seems. Bushnell elite 3.5-21?

 

[trob_205]

Not really daylight visible unless against a dark background but you don't really need illumination for daylight use.

That would depend on use I’d say. FFP scopes with super thin reticles at the lowest power benefit greatly from daylight bright illumination.

 

[TxWelder35]

Thoughts on the 3-18 Brownells? Or stay away for this type of build? It's not exactly light weight it seems. Bushnell elite 3.5-21?

I believe @lowlight had one show up in one of his classes that performed really well

 

[dgheriani]

I find it strange that guys are suggesting something like an HDMR2 for a DMR/SPR ind of rifle... Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great optic (have had a few and currently have one on a .308 bolt gun) but it's pretty heavy for a gas gun for 600 and in, imo. I've always been a fan of Bushnell 3-12 LRTSis on precision gas guns (mostly large frame .308/6.5s) as a good balance of performance and weight. Depending on what size targets you're shooting at, 12x is plenty for out to 1000 or so. My 18" .223 has a Bushnell Elite 1-8.5x on it and it's honestly plenty for 600 yards. I was making hits on a 12" diamond at 640 yards the other day with it, standing off my tripod. If I was looking for something like a 3-18 for more magnification, the Leupold Mk5 3.6-18 would be at the top of my list. I have a couple of the 5-25s on my match guns and really like them.

 

[hk dave]

Trijicon 2.5-10 credo

 

[Glassaholic]

Just posted this in a similar thread

May not work for everyone but I am really liking this setup. Bushnell LRHSi 4.5-18x44, Spuhr SCP-3001 and Leupold Delta Point Pro, keep in mind I do not shoot competitions but try to glean off those who do and setups that work. Need more time with this to determine if it's going to be better than a 45° offset...

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[JDB55]

Has anyone ever looked through a Delta Titanium HD 2.5-15x? I have the 1-6 Delta Stryker LPVO and love it, being a japanese scope. Was looking at weights of scopes heavily today, as it will have a great effect m love the Leupold but it's just to high in my budget. So was focusing on the 2.5-10s and the Viper 3-15 from Vortex and researching them out. Came across the 2.5-15 Delta and wondered if anyone had any experience. Thanks !

 

[JDB55]

So I nearly and I mean nearly just went ahead and bought the Viper 3-15 yesterday. And I may still buy it, but my brother in law recently bought a Tract Toric 4-20 for his Ruger precision, I finally got to see it and mess with it on Saturday. Man, that is a nice scope, I mean really nice. So anyways, they don't currently have anything in the 3-18 or 3-15 for their toric line which is from Japan(L.O.W) and illuminated. But I decided to message the company anyways, I talked to the owner "Jon" and low and behold he told me their are expanding their Toric 30mm tube line and it will be in the same feature set as the other toric offerings. So they are going to do a 1-8 illuminated LPVO and a 2.5-15 toric illuminated scope. He said that pre orders would be around November and if all goes well it will be out in December this year, said it will be in that 1k-1200 dollar range. After handling the 4-20 toric I feel like I should wait until November/December to see what the toric 2.5-15 turns out to be. I've been really impressed with what I've seen from them so far, and I gotta say it's one of the nicest looking scopes I've seen to boot. Maybe this information is helpful to someone else as well

What is y'all's experience with Tract?

 

[FatBoy]

I own a few that fit this requirements and have shot several others and my favorite is the Nightforce 2.5-10x32. Light. Strong. Can be had under $1200, much less if you go capped turrets. Good illumination. Nice reticle choices, though you’re at the mercy of the used market. Fixed parallax is better than on my 24mm and hasn’t hurt me to 1k and is actually faster for target aq than my M3 variable. For a non-1x scope this is my favorite. Honestly, I like it over 1x scopes for the way I care to shoot the mk12s.

 

[Vio515]

I have several Athlon scopes on ARs.

Helos BTR 1-4 and the Talos BTR 1-4.

Both have worked very nicely out to 600.

I shoot service rifle with the Helos and have been very happy with it.

1-4 is a really great magnification range to 600 yards when shooting 10 inch or larger targets.

 

[Glassaholic]

So I nearly and I mean nearly just went ahead and bought the Viper 3-15 yesterday. And I may still buy it, but my brother in law recently bought a Tract Toric 4-20 for his Ruger precision, I finally got to see it and mess with it on Saturday. Man, that is a nice scope, I mean really nice. So anyways, they don't currently have anything in the 3-18 or 3-15 for their toric line which is from Japan(L.O.W) and illuminated. But I decided to message the company anyways, I talked to the owner "Jon" and low and behold he told me their are expanding their Toric 30mm tube line and it will be in the same feature set as the other toric offerings. So they are going to do a 1-8 illuminated LPVO and a 2.5-15 toric illuminated scope. He said that pre orders would be around November and if all goes well it will be out in December this year, said it will be in that 1k-1200 dollar range. After handling the 4-20 toric I feel like I should wait until November/December to see what the toric 2.5-15 turns out to be. I've been really impressed with what I've seen from them so far, and I gotta say it's one of the nicest looking scopes I've seen to boot. Maybe this information is helpful to someone else as well

What is y'all's experience with Tract?

Tract is a good company and the two Jon’s are great guys. My issue with the Toric 4-20 is weight (very heavy for a 30mm scope) and narrow FOV. Outside of those issues glass was on par with Bushnell LRHS/LRTS series with some CA but very good resolution for the price. A Toric 2.5-15 FFP would be intriguing especially if they tame the weight and widen the FOV.

 

[Lurp06x]

Nightforce 2.5-10x would be my choice

 

[JDB55]

Tract is a good company and the two Jon’s are great guys. My issue with the Toric 4-20 is weight (very heavy for a 30mm scope) and narrow FOV. Outside of those issues glass was on par with Bushnell LRHS/LRTS series with some CA but very good resolution for the price. A Toric 2.5-15 FFP would be intriguing especially if they tame the weight and widen the FOV.

That was my thought. I equally share your concern with the weight factor. Which in my deep dive of research and heeding advice from others here to help formulate my options I've found it's a pretty short list of scopes that fit my desire of 1. Magnification range 2. Illumination 3. Weight 4. Quality glass and materials. If Tract can get the weight down to the PST Gen 2 weight (under 30 ounces) I think it will be a viable option. I also was hoping the Burris XTR III 3.3-18 would get an illuminated reticle soon but I messaged Burris two days ago and not only did they say they had no information regarding the reticle they said they had no ETA for when it will come out.

 

[hypno02]

Tough to go wrong with a 2.5-10X______ nightforce for this application. It's certainly your best option if durability is priority #1.

The DMR2 illuminated is a phenomenal optic as well for +- $1K. Same with a LRHS/LRTS. Historically very proven from a durability & tracking standpoint.

I wouldn't buy a Vortex that isn't a razor. I haven't played with a 3-18MPO but they do interest me.

 

[Glassaholic]

...nightforce for this application. It's certainly your best option if durability is priority #1.

Curious where you get your information that Nightforce is the "best option" from a durability standpoint?

 

[Secant]

Curious where you get your information that Nightforce is the "best option" from a durability standpoint?

Nightforce's marketing department. It's a lifestyle, LOL.

It's really a mixed bag though. They can take a bullet in a location where there are no critical components and keep working. But they don't do so hot when subjected to the rigors of the United States' package delivery system. Maybe MIL is just tougher than MOA

 

[JDB55]

Nightforce's marketing department. It's a lifestyle, LOL.

View attachment 7623118

It's really a mixed bag though. They can take a bullet in a location where there are no critical components and keep working. But they don't do so hot when subjected to the rigors of the United States' package delivery system. Maybe MIL is just tougher than MOA

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Ouch...that's painful to look at lol

 

[themightytimmah]

I just sold my 1-8 for a NXS 2.5-10. I think you’ll find that with an AR you shoot at the low end of the magnification range a lot, and FFP reticles are either too small at bottom magnification for speed or too large at top (I’m looking at you Trijicon) magnification for accuracy.

 

[hypno02]

Curious where you get your information that Nightforce is the "best option" from a durability standpoint?

I think NF's track record of building rugged optics is unmatched. Are they without issues? No. I've sent a few back for non-critical failures. But overall their performance and consistency is second to none.

 

[BCP]

I have one of those older leupold 3-9 short eye relief with 168gr BDC knob scopes which has been great on my 223 rifles. Lightweight, simple mildot type reticule, illuminated. SWFA 3-9 is another option.

For higher magnification I would get a nightforce shv f1 or one of those bushnell 4.5-18 with the G2 reticule.

 

[BCP]

I own a few that fit this requirements and have shot several others and my favorite is the Nightforce 2.5-10x32. Light. Strong. Can be had under $1200, much less if you go capped turrets.

I thought those were no longer made?

 

[Glassaholic]

I think NF's track record of building rugged optics is unmatched. Are they without issues? No. I've sent a few back for non-critical failures. But overall their performance and consistency is second to none.

Okay, so it's more a matter of personal opinion. I was just curious if there was something documented as I often see these statements about Nightforce. Keep in mind, I'm not saying NF isn't the most durable scope today; however, we need to qualify that statement, does that mean "all" NF scopes, is it one particular line or model, what is the failure rate for the scope under normal use, under hard duty use, etc.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

NF 2.5-10x42 with a zero stop and illumination is pretty nice for it’s 20 ounce weight and $1600 price. SFP scope but not a problem with 10 power max magnification. The parallax to 25 yards is nice for close in shooting. Good light gathering and easy to get behind the scope.

IMO hard to beat for a lightweight SPR/DMR/hunting/PCP airgun build.

 

[Glassaholic]

NF 2.5-10x42 with a zero stop and illumination is pretty nice for it’s 20 ounce weight and $1600 price. SFP scope but not a problem with 10 power max magnification. The parallax to 25 yards is nice for close in shooting. Good light gathering and easy to get behind the scope.

IMO hard to beat for a lightweight SPR/DMR/hunting/PCP airgun build.

Just saw one in the buy and sell forum for $1400 I think...

 

[FatBoy]

I thought those were no longer made?

There not, but they come up for sale weekly.

 

[deersniper]

Nx8 2.5-20 is only 8 ounces more than a 2.5-10x42 fwiw.

 

[themightytimmah]

Just saw one in the buy and sell forum for $1400 I think...

I just snagged one for 1050 in a Larue, mil-mil, but an older mildot reticle, illuminated, zerostop . The new reticles (Mil-R) will come in closer to that $1400 price, and non matching turrets / no zero stop come in cheaper unless they’re clone correct (in which case they’re $$$$)

 

[deersniper]

I just snagged one for 1050 in a Larue, mil-mil, but an older mildot reticle, illuminated, zerostop . The new reticles (Mil-R) will come in closer to that $1400 price, and non matching turrets / no zero stop come in cheaper unless they’re clone correct (in which case they’re $$$$)

A 2.5-10x42?

 

[JDB55]

This is my list right now in no particular order:

•Tract Toric 2.5-15(out in December, hopefully they shave some weight from the rest of the toric line)
•NF 2.5-10x42(Hopefully on sale or used)
•Vortex viper pst gen 2 3-15(my "budget buy")
•Trijicon Credo® HX 2.5-15x42(For some reason I just don't want to buy this one but it seems to check a lot of boxes)

There are others that look great but just don't have illumination that I've eliminated. Such as the Burris XTR III 3.3-18. I like the Brownells 3-18 MPO but at 33 ounces seems to be a bit heavier than I would like. How does my list look?

Btw everyone's advice and opinions are invaluable. I'm learning a lot by reading this forum from you guys who have a lot more experience than me

 

[ma smith]

Curious where you get your information that Nightforce is the "best option" from a durability standpoint?

Probably related to the "old ways"...

Some of you will remember the old Nightforce military F1 scopes that added epoxy to the lens mounting procedure to improve the durability at the cost of complicating the repair process should the scope require repairs.

 

[themightytimmah]

A 2.5-10x42?

It was a 32

 

[deersniper]

 

[Bevo]

I run a Viper PST II 5-25 on my 20" AR. Only 1.2 oz heavier than the XTR III 3.3-18, but the PST has illumination. My eyes aren't the best, so I'm happy to run a little heavier scope for more magnification.

Have taken it to 800 yards with no problem. Tracks great, glass is good. Tough to beat for the price IMO.

 

[Glassaholic]

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I admit, Nightforce is a marketing genius. I wonder if that ad about warranty was from the Jeff Huber days? Anyone out there with a boatload of cash wanting to do some torture tests to about $50k worth of scopes I've seen the NF videos of hammering a spike and it still shoots straight, another frozen in an ice block and shot with a shotgun and it shoots straight. Like I said, marketing genius, but I wonder how much more "durable" or "virtually indestructible" NF scopes are compared to the competition, I'd venture to think some of the competition could not stand up, while some others may hold up even better.

That meme with the NF and Berger's made me snort

Sorry to digress from the thread. OP, I see the LRHS/LRTS didn't make your cut, I do think you should give it some consideration