308 DMR optics

[steve123]

Also I’m nearly 50 years old, have bad astigmatism, wear glasses now, and was doing this with my glasses off.

I think it was you who said you could see the stadia and center dot of a .03 mil reticle on 3x, well good on yuh, but that's just about unthinkable for the state of my vision.
I don't know about you but I have to dial the diopter nearly a 1/4" out from full in to see the reticle focused and I need to change the diopter going from high mag to low mag so the reticle is focused well.

Back then I was still winning long range matches at 50 years old and I could definitely see better then. Part of the reason I stopped is my eyes got worse. I could see debris kick up when I missed but I couldn't see exactly where the bullet landed so I couldn't make proper corrections anymore.

Tier1 scopes for me have nice IQ but are no longer appearing pristine like they used to and the cheap scopes IQ appears pretty crappy to me, whereas before were tolerable. I don't even have cheap scopes on my least expensive airguns and 22's because of this. Worst is a older SWFA 3-15 which wasn't very clear 10 years ago.

A good experiment for me would be to try to shoot some jackrabbits on 2.5x with the new Ares BTR G3 mounted up on a lightweight walk around somethingornother. I haven't been rabbit shooting in years so that'd be fun.

All I can say is "I hope" I can see that reticle decently on 2.5x. If I can then that's a big positive for most everyone else with better vision. Well 3x is on it is okay for me too.

 

[DM1975]

I think it was you who said you could see the stadia and center dot of a .03 mil reticle on 3x, well good on yuh, but that's just about unthinkable for the state of my vision.
I don't know about you but I have to dial the diopter nearly a 1/4" out from full in to see the reticle focused and I need to change the diopter going from high mag to low mag so the reticle is focused well.

Back then I was still winning long range matches at 50 years old and I could definitely see better then. Part of the reason I stopped is my eyes got worse. I could see debris kick up when I missed but I couldn't see exactly where the bullet landed so I couldn't make proper corrections anymore.

Tier1 scopes for me have nice IQ but are no longer appearing pristine like they used to and the cheap scopes IQ appears pretty crappy to me, whereas before were tolerable. I don't even have cheap scopes on my least expensive airguns and 22's because of this. Worst is a older SWFA 3-15 which wasn't very clear 10 years ago.

A good experiment for me would be to try to shoot some jackrabbits on 2.5x with the new Ares BTR G3 mounted up on a lightweight walk around somethingornother. I haven't been rabbit shooting in years so that'd be fun.

All I can say is "I hope" I can see that reticle decently on 2.5x. If I can then that's a big positive for most everyone else with better vision. Well 3x is on it is okay for me too.

No I couldn’t see the center dot on the .03 but I can see the crosshairs and the center dot just kinda melts into that (on 5x) and I would say the .06 in this new scope is far easier to see at 2.5x than the .03 at 5x. I figure if my options are a 1moa center dot, or just being able to see the crosshairs then at the ranges I shoot on low power I’m going to get at least comparable accuracy and at higher power I have a finer dot to work with.

On eyesight I suppose age comes for us all eventually. I used to have 20/10 vision but now that’s gone and getting increasingly worse as I go. I can’t see far off without glasses like I used to anymore but I can’t use my glasses on a scope. Bubble levels are all moved out as far as I get them now, red dots are a blur, and so are pistol sights. I probably need a magnifier for my turrets now as well. Getting older sucks.

 

[Rob01]

Why can’t you use your glasses on the scope? I have the same issues as you and no issues wearing my glasses with a scope. Do the glasses cause an issue somehow? I agree getting older sucks as I am almost 10 years older than you. It doesn’t get easier lol

 

[DM1975]

Why can’t you use your glasses on the scope? I have the same issues as you and no issues wearing my glasses with a scope. Do the glasses cause an issue somehow? I agree getting older sucks as I am almost 10 years older than you. It doesn’t get easier lol

Well I suppose I could. When I have done so I have to back the focus ring for the reticle way out which isn’t a big issue. My biggest issue is that with my long ass neck I’m basically having to look through the upper part of the frame of the glasses and that whole area is distorted. When I look through the scope without glasses I can see fine when I focus everything properly. Another issue I have is that I have bifocals and the distance part of the glasses doesn’t start working for me until past arms length and the closeup part is way too low for me to line up with the scope. I’m fairly new to glasses as well so I’m still trying to figure that all out.

 

[stanley_white]

Yesterday I got out my S&B 5-25/H59, also my Athlon Helos G2 4-20/APRS6, both at .05 mil reticle thickness as well as the center dot, and had a tough time seeing the reticle well on lowest magnification. I couldn't see the center dots but at 6x for the H59, and 5x for the HG2 I could make it out somewhat. It's surprising what 1x more presents visually.

Well back to lowest mag for either of my two scopes, I suppose the best way to put it is, I'd need time for a shot to concentrate on the center of the reticle, and I'd need a contrasting background, or it'd be way better dialing up 1-2x for a shot. So basically I have 6-25 and 5-20, lol.

Then I think to myself, man 3x with a .05 mil reticle must be nearly useless??

I guess I'll know next week how a .06 reticle works at 2.5x for my eyes.

Thinking out loud a center dot in a MPVO that I could bloom out nuclear bright would solve a lot of my/our problems for a quick shot on lowest mag.

I think it was you who said you could see the stadia and center dot of a .03 mil reticle on 3x, well good on yuh, but that's just about unthinkable for the state of my vision.
I don't know about you but I have to dial the diopter nearly a 1/4" out from full in to see the reticle focused and I need to change the diopter going from high mag to low mag so the reticle is focused well.

Back then I was still winning long range matches at 50 years old and I could definitely see better then. Part of the reason I stopped is my eyes got worse. I could see debris kick up when I missed but I couldn't see exactly where the bullet landed so I couldn't make proper corrections anymore.

Tier1 scopes for me have nice IQ but are no longer appearing pristine like they used to and the cheap scopes IQ appears pretty crappy to me, whereas before were tolerable. I don't even have cheap scopes on my least expensive airguns and 22's because of this. Worst is a older SWFA 3-15 which wasn't very clear 10 years ago.

A good experiment for me would be to try to shoot some jackrabbits on 2.5x with the new Ares BTR G3 mounted up on a lightweight walk around somethingornother. I haven't been rabbit shooting in years so that'd be fun.

All I can say is "I hope" I can see that reticle decently on 2.5x. If I can then that's a big positive for most everyone else with better vision. Well 3x is on it is okay for me too.

The .1 MRAD thick Leupold Illuminated TMR MK5 is calling you.



I answered the call and love it.

-Stan

 

[Rob01]

Well I suppose I could. When I have done so I have to back the focus ring for the reticle way out which isn’t a big issue. My biggest issue is that with my long ass neck I’m basically having to look through the upper part of the frame of the glasses and that whole area is distorted. When I look through the scope without glasses I can see fine when I focus everything properly. Another issue I have is that I have bifocals and the distance part of the glasses doesn’t start working for me until past arms length and the closeup part is way too low for me to line up with the scope. I’m fairly new to glasses as well so I’m still trying to figure that all out.

Sounds like your scope is mounted too low and you have to push your face down to look through the scope. The adjustment of the ocular to focus the reticle is a non issue. It ends up where it ends up.

I wear bifocals too and mine is the same way about where the far vision works but it doesn’t affect the scope. Adjust the ocular to focus the reticle where it is clear with your glasses on and get a higher scope mount/rings and I bet you will have zero issues. Being new to glasses does take a little getting used to but it’s definitely workable.

 

[DM1975]

Sounds like your scope is mounted too low and you have to push your face down to look through the scope. The adjustment of the ocular to focus the reticle is a non issue. It ends up where it ends up.

I wear bifocals too and mine is the same way about where the far vision works but it doesn’t affect the scope. Adjust the ocular to focus the reticle where it is clear with your glasses on and get a higher scope mount/rings and I bet you will have zero issues. Being new to glasses does take a little getting used to but it’s definitely workable.

I thought about the ring height as well and actually have a rifle set up with extra high rings and initially tried my glasses out on it the day I got them. Still had the issue. When I’m standing it isn’t as bad but prone it’s pretty difficult. I’m sure I just need to work on it but I’ve been lazy on that and have just been doing without.

 

[steve123]

I thought about the ring height as well and actually have a rifle set up with extra high rings and initially tried my glasses out on it the day I got them. Still had the issue. When I’m standing it isn’t as bad but prone it’s pretty difficult. I’m sure I just need to work on it but I’ve been lazy on that and have just been doing without.

I prefer to shoot without glasses as well but the ranges require eye protection. I bought a pair with large lenses in a effort to avoid the frame ever occluding my view down the scope but if my head is sweaty my glasses would slip down my nose causing the frame to be in the way so I bought a frame strap to hold it up.

Just last week I ordered a new pair that doesn't have the frame on top of, or even around the lenses, instead it attaches on the upper outer edges of the lens. The frame is a super thin springy titanium that's lightweight and I tested the frame sizes to fit snugly around my ear this time. Basically I traded having cool looking sunglasses for super lightweight funky old man glasses, lol.

What a pain, aye!

 

[DM1975]

I prefer to shoot without glasses as well but the ranges require eye protection. I bought a pair with large lenses in a effort to avoid the frame ever occluding my view down the scope but if my head is sweaty my glasses would slip down my nose causing the frame to be in the way so I bought a frame strap to hold it up.

Just last week I ordered a new pair that doesn't have the frame on top of, or even around the lenses, instead it attaches on the upper outer edges of the lens. The frame is a super thin springy titanium that's lightweight and I tested the frame sizes to fit snugly around my ear this time. Basically I traded having cool looking sunglasses for super lightweight funky old man glasses, lol.

What a pain, aye!

I’m lucky that I have my own range where I don’t have to have eye pro. When I’ve had to wear it in the past I always just let the eye pro slip down my nose far enough to look over it lol. I might try a brain strap and see if that helps out any.

 

[Rob01]

It sounds like you just need to get the rifle set up right as I know many similar to you who shoot without issue with glasses.

You have any issues bending your neck? It sounds like your head may be too flat on the comb.

 

[DM1975]

It sounds like you just need to get the rifle set up right as I know many similar to you who shoot without issue with glasses.

You have any issues bending your neck? It sounds like your head may be too flat on the comb.

I do. Actually I’m having to get xrays done on it by the VA shortly. For now they have me seeing a chiropractor. It’s been an ongoing issue for several years now. I’ve always had issues in the prone wearing eye pro though.

I have a Savage Stealth Evo with super high Leupold mk4 rings on it and have even added a thick foam pad to the cheek piece and still have issues with it.

 

[davsco]

not seeing it on vortex's site, but i have their 3-18x50 ffp razor hd. had it on an ar-10 in 308 and now an ar-15 in 224valk, both for gas gun division generally 800yd max. a very nice optic, does everything great. maybe some shops still have them or can find used.

 

[Rob01]

not seeing it on vortex's site, but i have their 3-18x50 ffp razor hd. had it on an ar-10 in 308 and now an ar-15 in 224valk, both for gas gun division generally 800yd max. a very nice optic, does everything great. maybe some shops still have them or can find used.

It was discontinued a couple years back but it was a good optic like it’s big brother the 4.5-27.

 

[Rob01]

I do. Actually I’m having to get xrays done on it by the VA shortly. For now they have me seeing a chiropractor. It’s been an ongoing issue for several years now. I’ve always had issues in the prone wearing eye pro though.

I have a Savage Stealth Evo with super high Leupold mk4 rings on it and have even added a thick foam pad to the cheek piece and still have issues with it.

Just went to chiropractor and PT for my lower back today so I can relate. lol Maybe talk to your optometrist and see if he could make a set of glasses that will work for you when shooting. Worth an ask.

 

[DM1975]

Just went to chiropractor and PT for my lower back today so I can relate. lol Maybe talk to your optometrist and see if he could make a set of glasses that will work for you when shooting. Worth an ask.

Well for the time being I’m stuck with Army retirement glasses. I get two choices of frames lol. Doing PT for my knees as well. Hopefully it won’t take an act of congress for me to get up out of the prone and kneeling anymore.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

Well for the time being I’m stuck with Army retirement glasses. I get two choices of frames lol. Doing PT for my knees as well. Hopefully it won’t take an act of congress for me to get up out of the prone and kneeling anymore.

Just a suggestion... If you haven’t already, get a good tripod and start shooting off it in the sitting position instead of shooting prone. It’s more comfortable for your neck and it will solve your glasses issue while shooting.

 

[DM1975]

Just a suggestion... If you haven’t already, get a good tripod and start shooting off it in the sitting position instead of shooting prone. It’s more comfortable for your neck and it will solve your glasses issue while shooting.

I have one. I have a bench to shoot off of as well. I mean that all helps when I’m on my range and on my time. I would however like to start shooting competition again so that’s one of the reasons I’ve been making a push to get my neck, back, and knees working better again. For now I’ll do the best I can with what I have. I’ll either figure the glasses out eventually or I’ll leave them off. I can still shoot fine with them off. Maybe in another 10 years that’ll change.

 

[Budrichard]

For older shooters that can qualify, I can attest that cataract lens replacement is almost a miracle.
For my entire life Iwas right handed, left eye dominant due to a weak right eye.
My vision is now 20/15 and I have become right eye dominant.
Helps for Trap, rifle and many other pursuits.
I was having difficulty seeing an 1/8 Target dot on fine cross Hairs.
I would have to locate the dot outside the bull and then bring to the center.
No more. Street signs and everything are now clear.
I went with a single script an still must use readers.
The benefit is that I can now use non script shooting glasses!
I don't like variable lenses.
Consider surgery!-Richard

 

[DM1975]

For older shooters that can qualify, I can attest that cataract lens replacement is almost a miracle.
For my entire life Iwas right handed, left eye dominant due to a weak right eye.
My vision is now 20/15 and I have become right eye dominant.
Helps for Trap, rifle and many other pursuits.
I was having difficulty seeing an 1/8 Target dot on fine cross Hairs.
I would have to locate the dot outside the bull and then bring to the center.
No more. Street signs and everything are now clear.
I went with a single script an still must use readers.
The benefit is that I can now use non script shooting glasses!
I don't like variable lenses.
Consider surgery!-Richard

I’ve been thinking about seeing if surgery would help. Just have to see if either tricare or the VA will pay.

 

[Budrichard]

I’ve been thinking about seeing if surgery would help. Just have to see if either tricare or the VA will pay.

You have to give the correct answers on how your vision is being affected.
Haze at night hindering driving and blur during the day can help. Your local OD can help with coaching before you see a surgeon for evaluation.
-Richard

 

[DM1975]

You have to give the correct answers on how your vision is being affected.
Haze at night hindering driving and blur during the day can help. Your local OD can help with coaching before you see a surgeon for evaluation.
-Richard

Yeah that’s about where I’m at. I can’t see to drive at night. Lights are blinding and look like huge stars. I can still see well enough in a pasture on a full moon night to navigate around but it’s getting harder.

 

[SFC RHYNO]

Going to be clearing houses and humping it up and down mountains? If not then a red dot is a waste of money and the weight doesn’t matter. Get a good scope in the power range you want.

Here’s a 30.4 ounce 5-25 on an AR15. No issues with weight. It had a 42 ounce optic on before this.

View attachment 8611627

Totally agree, any shot you would use a red dot on would be reflexive. With training your body mechanics would be able to pick up those targets easy. Always seemed silly to me, I don't even run back up irons for the same reason.