Optics Planet - Never Again

S

stalski

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 3, 2012
148
7
43
Utah
#1
I have had it with this company. I recommend that nobody ever buys anything from them.

I ordered a Spuhr scope mount from them. Two days later their risk management department emailed me to say my order was on hold and asked me some questions about who exactly I was and what was my intended use as my email address ends in .ch (I use ProtonMail for privacy reasons as their servers are encrypted and based in Switzerland).

I provided them with my end-user information in writing. They then sent me another email saying the order was still on hold asking me to provide the same information in writing with wet ink on their own internal form. Really?

I called them and after getting dropped once, then hanging out on hold for 45 minutes finally got someone. Then waited another 15 to speak to a supervisor. Christopher, the supervisor, told me that "Local Commerce Laws" mandated that they have their own internal ITAR form filled out. I asked if he meant Federal laws, he said no. This is an outright lie.

I then asked to cancel the order and when they would refund my payment as I paid through PayPal. He said he couldn't guarantee anything about when the payment would be refunded because it was a PayPal issue and not theirs.

Christopher was rude, unhelpful, told outright lies, then suggested I leave a message with legal who "may or may not get back to you".

I have the whole conversation recorded (he consented to the recording) just in case anyone wants to claim otherwise.

Avoid Optics Planet folks.
 
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#2
I had a similar problem when I tried to order a holster from them a couple of years ago, they wanted a photocopy of my military retiree ID card to prove i was who I said I was, for a holster. Never did business with them again.
 
#6
021411 said:
My Eberlestock pack and accessory that was ordered on Xmas just shipped from them. Tracking number is live and package is in transit. So far no issues with OP for the past 10+ years of doing online business with them.
Click to expand...

No issues here. Between my son and I we have ordered a lot from them.
 
#9
Yeah, first I have heard they are weird or dickish to anyone. Always heard, and experienced myself, they are solid on in-stock, ship fast, give good updates, and I thought they were certified reseller for lots of these brands.

All in all, they are one of my good-not-great deal places I use as they are more stand up than Fly By Night Industries with the best price, like Botach does with their backorder/bulk price stuff.
 
#17
For my own small business if I see off-shore contact information (phone, email, address), I just cancel and refund the order the same day. No questions asked.

It got bad enough that there are whole businesses state-side dedicated to ordering items on behalf of international clients.

I understand OP's reason for the email address, but honestly it's not even remotely worth the risk selling international. So much cheaper to just refund your order immediately instead of ask you to jump through hoops.

They really should have done a better job at explaining all of this rather than give you a very rude run-around. Shame on them for that.
 
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#19
stalski said:
I have had it with this company. I recommend that nobody ever buys anything from them.

I ordered a Spuhr scope mount from them. Two days later their risk management department emailed me to say my order was on hold and asked me some questions about who exactly I was and what was my intended use as my email address ends in .ch (I use ProtonMail for privacy reasons as their servers are encrypted and based in Switzerland).

I provided them with my end-user information in writing. They then sent me another email saying the order was still on hold asking me to provide the same information in writing with wet ink on their own internal form. Really?

I called them and after getting dropped once, then hanging out on hold for 45 minutes finally got someone. Then waited another 15 to speak to a supervisor. Christopher, the supervisor, told me that "Local Commerce Laws" mandated that they have their own internal ITAR form filled out. I asked if he meant Federal laws, he said no. This is an outright lie.

I then asked to cancel the order and when they would refund my payment as I paid through PayPal. He said he couldn't guarantee anything about when the payment would be refunded because it was a PayPal issue and not theirs.

Christopher was rude, unhelpful, told outright lies, then suggested I leave a message with legal who "may or may not get back to you".

I have the whole conversation recorded (he consented to the recording) just in case anyone wants to claim otherwise.

Avoid Optics Planet folks.
Click to expand...
 
#20
Well said! Optics Planets is a bad joke. I can't believe they're so big, they skam customers with there prices then add tax to the order at the end...oh shit, looks like I am overpaying, or not! Order canceled.
 
#25
Hi,

ITAR be like.....
1545965180897.png

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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#27
I work for a company that is very heavily regulated by ITAR and EAR. It's no joke what kind of hurt .gov will put on you if they even suspect you have a violation (our parent corp got massively fined and put on a multi-year federal oversight/nanny program for a very simple foul-up on an ITAR related project).

That being said, anyone in the gun world oughta know that you're rolling the dice with Optics Planet and Botach. Plenty of people with no issues and an equal number who got screwed over.
 
#29
CriticallyStressed said:
I work for a company that is very heavily regulated by ITAR and EAR. It's no joke what kind of hurt .gov will put on you if they even suspect you have a violation (our parent corp got massively fined and put on a multi-year federal oversight/nanny program for a very simple foul-up on an ITAR related project).

That being said, anyone in the gun world oughta know that you're rolling the dice with Optics Planet and Botach. Plenty of people with no issues and an equal number who got screwed over.
Click to expand...
I work in the defense industry since I retired from the military, our products are also heavily ITAR regulated as they turn people into red spray often. My run in with optics planet had them refusing to sell me a holster for ITAR reasons, holsters are not ITAR items. That's the problem with them, they apply ITAR to random products that aren't covered under ITAR. It's kinda like stores in California putting lead warnings on every product in the store, they dont want to figure out which items actually have lead so it's just easier to put the label on literally everything. Anyway I'm not sending anyone copies of my ID cards over the internet, without a really compelling reason to do so, so I no longer do business with them. Also unlike the OP I have just a normal gmail account so it wasn't my email that triggered ITAR alarms.
 
#30
Hi,

Here is the very brief scoop on ITAR and OP....(Especially when dealing with International manufactured products such as Spuhr)....

Depending on "How" OP imports the products WILL absolutely dictate on "How" the can sell the product and what documents aka End User Certs are required for them to sell you the product.
That stems from the host country requiring end user certs for EACH of the products sold. OP would have 14 days from the sale to provide the host countries exportation department with the signed end user certs.
It actually has LESS to do with ITAR and more to do with host countries exportation mandates.

BUT then again it is ALL dependent on what OP puts on the BATFE Form 6 (Note BATFE and not DDTC{ITAR} which then gets submitted to the host countries exportation department. The wording aka "reasoning" of the importation on the Form 6 will dictate how OP must do the End User Certs. If done properly for sake of host countries exportation requirements OP is the End User and submits 1 cert but if done purely marked as resell then the host country can and most often does require individual end user certs.

Also just FWIW: When the DDTC fines a company for actual ITAR violations..the fines typically start at 1mil USD and go from there.

@CriticallyStressed
Care to advise who your parent company is? I might have been your companies ITAR "Nanny" :)

Sincerely,
Theis
 
#33
THEIS said:
Hi,

Here is the very brief scoop on ITAR and OP....(Especially when dealing with International manufactured products such as Spuhr)....

Depending on "How" OP imports the products WILL absolutely dictate on "How" the can sell the product and what documents aka End User Certs are required for them to sell you the product.
That stems from the host country requiring end user certs for EACH of the products sold. OP would have 14 days from the sale to provide the host countries exportation department with the signed end user certs.
It actually has LESS to do with ITAR and more to do with host countries exportation mandates.

BUT then again it is ALL dependent on what OP puts on the BATFE Form 6 (Note BATFE and not DDTC{ITAR} which then gets submitted to the host countries exportation department. The wording aka "reasoning" of the importation on the Form 6 will dictate how OP must do the End User Certs. If done properly for sake of host countries exportation requirements OP is the End User and submits 1 cert but if done purely marked as resell then the host country can and most often does require individual end user certs.

Also just FWIW: When the DDTC fines a company for actual ITAR violations..the fines typically start at 1mil USD and go from there.

@CriticallyStressed
Care to advise who your parent company is? I might have been your companies ITAR "Nanny" :)

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
While I’m not allowed to state it publicly, they are headquartered in Bellevue and the fine was north of $20M.
 
#35
Heh. I always thought it was hilarious that ITAR and EOE laws directly conflict with each other.

“Muhammad. I cannot hire you. Why? Because you are from Iran, and we make guided missiles.”

“You filthy American Pig. Equal Opportunity Employment says you cannot discriminate against me! I kill you...in a court of law!!!”

I’m also waiting for the day that purchasers of hand files, whittling knifes, and Japanese Calligraphi supplies have to register with ITAR and pay the $7000 fee.

On the other hand, what happened to FLIR, and FLIR itself, is probably the right use of DDTC resources. Thermal is a war fighting game changer and it should be tightly controlled.
 
Last edited:
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#40
THEIS said:
Hi,

BATFE actually has/would have nothing to do with that transaction.

DDTC would (Unless Company or Company Owner is under disbarment/sanctions) approve that exportation.

LOL Mike you should send me that email.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
Sorry, forgot the resident expert was here, and forgot to put the lol on that post.
 
#41
THEIS said:
Hi,

BATFE actually has/would have nothing to do with that transaction.

DDTC would (Unless Company or Company Owner is under disbarment/sanctions) approve that exportation.

LOL Mike you should send me that email.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...

PM your email and I'll forward it to you.
I wonder how many people get requests like that
 
#42
Oh yeah, I love getting requests to buy SMGs from totally legitimate businessmen who just happen to be based in the Pakistani Tribal regions, etc.

So glad I don't do a legit import/export business or I gather I'd have to report each of these or get a fine and loose my license.
 
#43
From everything I've seen firsthand, let me just give a loud LOL to fucking ITAR doing anything outside of being some retarded buzz word/term that the good idea fairy came up with to basically cement the fact that they have absolutely no fucking idea as to how things really work. It is the epitome of 'but we're doing something!' from people who are the absolute peak pork level of mid level administration.

Fucking Theis. ;)

Other than that, optics planet has been a usual suspect for years. Something similar happened to me with them on a Vortex scope that they had so cheap I figured I'd never get it as it was a screw up. A few days go by and I start getting the emails about how my order was on hold and to call this number, dial this, etc.

I call and its some indian call center faggot trying to tell me that for my personal security, they need me to provide them with a photo ID or a picture of my passport and something with my shipping address on it like a utility bill. When I ask the guy as to how fucking retarded he thinks I am, in that 'for my security' someone wants me to send pictures of personal information to some 3rd world jobber that makes 16 cents a day, he didn't understand why I'd have a problem with that.

LOLopticsplanet
 
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#44
I’ve only purchased from them once. Picked up an EoTech XPS and G33 magnifier. Everything went smooth no issues, but I don’t typically do business with them. They just happened to have the best deal I could find on that setup at the time.
 
#45
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