Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

[Spazz.]

I've been shooting iron sights on a .22 for long enough, and thanks to a generous set of parents, I'm going to have a Savage MKIIBV for Christmas. Since I'm <span style="font-weight: bold">new</span> at this whole optics thing, I need some pointers.

The BV comes with bases installed. I need rings and a scope. I was wondering if anyone has a setup with this particular gun or one that's basically the same. I need to know what size rings to get and what diameter scope will fit on top of this gun.

I'd like to get a scope that can go to 16x and I'd like parallax adjustment. I also don't like really thick reticles, but I wouldn't mind a rangefinding reticle. I'm also kind of on a budget for this (think $150 or below), so what's the perfect scope that's crisp, clear, high magnification, and dirt cheap?

Going on, I'd like a good bipod to go under the gun. I shoot primarily prone in rolling farmland in Kentucky. We don't have much tall grass, and I target shoot mainly in a mowed area. I'd be hunting squirrels in a wooded area and would most likely be using tree trunks for support if I'm not kneeling or sitting. Any suggestions on a good bipod?

I don't want to sound like a mall ninja, but I've not yet had the extra money to get into precision shooting. The .22 seems like a good place to start, and I want to start off right. Any help you guys have to offer would be great, and thanks in advance.

 

[CrewDawg]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Go to Walmart and pick up a center point 4-16 scope, and a bipod. They should run right about 150 for both. Not the best but they will work until you can aford a better scope. Just remeber you get what you pay for, so don't expect too much.

 

[Inline6]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

I would save up a little longer and get something that you will be happy with. Maybe you will get lucky and get some cash from some member of your family. Remember patients is a vertue no better time in life then to lean it now. Now another question for you how far can you shoot? Inside of 125-150 I would go with a 1" tube any longer and I would step up to the 30mm tube (more adjustment). Don't worry about it just being a 22 a lot of us on here have spent a lot of money to get little groups with a 22.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

My advice is to bin the OEM scope bases and get a true one-piece picatinny rail from EGW. Much Better.

 

[kansas45]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

That Center Point 4-16x40 scope from Wal Mart on a EGW 20 MOA rail & a Harris bipod works good with my Savage MKII FV.

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Inline, most of my shooting will be between 25 and 100 yards. I'm going to get the basics down pretty solid before I try and go much farther than that, mainly to avoid frustration.

buffybuster, that looks like a pretty good deal for $40. I've seen that type of base on a lot of rifles here, so there must be something to it, huh?

Crew and kansas, I'll check into the Center Point. It looks pretty good, especially for a starter under $100. I don't imagine I'll start off with much low-light shooting, but the illuminated reticle has me intrigued. kansas, what rings do you have on your setup?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Scope ring height is not rocket surgery.

Assuming a 50mm objective and a 30mm scope tube, the difference is 20mm, which we divide in half (because we're only providing clearance for the bottom of the scope, and we are left with a 10mm lift. Two fifths of an inch, or 0.400" (-ish...). A bit between 3/8" and 1/2".

So looking at the rings, the bit between where the bottom of the scope goes, and where the bottom of the ring goes against the base, needs to have no less than that amount (0.400" or between 3/8" and 1/2") of thickness. <span style="font-style: italic">The base thickness provides additional clearance.</span>

Fr a 40mm objective and a 1" tube, that lift is 7-8mm, so the thickness needed is near a third of an inch, about .300", or about .100" less than above.

I generally suggest a Tasco 6-24x42 Varmint/Target MilDot scope, Model VAR624X42M for trainers. It has MilDot reticle that nominally ranges at 10x, but some say 8x is more like it, Adjustable 42mm Objective that focuses as close as 15yd, Covered Target Knobs with 1/4" (1/4MOA) clicks, and 75MOA or more of elevation adjustment. They list in the vicinity of $80. There is also a 2.5-10x version (VAR2510X42M) that's good for hunting, but for precise target shooting on a .22lr, the 6-24 version is more appropriate.

For a .22LR, simple aluminum Tasco rings are quite adequate. Mediums should work. As a rule of thumb, I use lows for 32mm objectives, mediums for 40mm objectives, and highs for 50mm objectives. There will be situations where my rule of thumb isn't quite right. Because I have a fair number fo scopes and rifles, I keep several sets of each height onhand for spares/whatever. Obviously, where pricier optics and rifles are concerned, I use something with more quality. For this I use Burris Signature Zee(which are intended for Weaver style bases) rings.

Greg

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Thanks for the help (as usual) Greg. Sometimes it takes someone else to point out the obvious to me - I tend to over-complicate things. Can't see the forest for the trees and all that.

 

[kansas45]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Spazz. Like Greg, I don't necessarly need the best rings on my .22's, but I do like them to be able to do the job. The Center Point rings are heavy-duty, but pretty tall & when attatched to the 20 MOA rail they were useable, but I didn't like the height. Last night I dug through the scope ring collection ( a person can't have too many sets of rings)& found a new set of Millett Angle-Loc, windage adjustable high rings, & a set of medium rings. The med's will work, but only if I leave the scope caps off. I put the Millett's on. Those windage adjustable rings are a pain to deal with, but I'm pretty sure I've got it right. I'm off work today & headed to the farm to sight the rifle back in. The Center Point is a 1" tube, by the way.

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Thanks.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Inline, most of my shooting will be between 25 and 100 yards. I'm going to get the basics down pretty solid before I try and go much farther than that, mainly to avoid frustration.</div></div>
Within the 100 yards, is where a 22LR bullet still behaves like a bullet, and not like a tumbling rock

You do not need an expensive scope/rings for a 22LR. Save the money yes, but for more ammo to train with.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

'Welcome...

The Tasco I mention is not the absolute clearest, but it's clear enough that I use one at 1000yd on my F Class competition rig.

Bipods are expensive. There's a China-made Harris clone for $41 and change being marketed at Wallyworld with a Winchester label. Personally, I don't approve of Chinese ripoffs. But the Tasco comes from the same place. Decisons, decisions...

I think a fairly firm beanbag can take the place of a bipod, and you can make your own.

Greg

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> most of my shooting will be between 25 and 100 yards. I'm going to get the basics down pretty solid before I try and go much farther than that, mainly to avoid frustration.

I've seen that type of base on a lot of rifles here, so there must be something to it, huh?

I'll check into the Center Point. It looks pretty good, especially for a starter under $100. I don't imagine I'll start off with much low-light shooting, but the illuminated reticle has me intrigued. </div></div>

with that accurate savage, you'll want to start shooting further. get the egw 20 moa base now so when the time comes, you'll already be able to shoot further without losing adjustment on the scope, that is if you plan on shooting some paper also.

that centerpoint is actually a decent scope for that price, mildots, adjustable turrets, etc. if you are only going for squirrel and such, it's more than enough (although better glass is more enjoyable). i have one on a .22 mag that i mostly take hunting. through snow, cold, rain, and heat it keeps a zero and does everything i ask of it. my only two gripes is that the illuminated reticle is a little too bright for nighttime critter getting, and there isn't a factory sunshade availble. YOU CAN GET A NIKON NEXT CHRISTMAS.

get a bipod they are worth their weight in gold. a harris or one of the knockoffs. a 6" to 9" adjustable should fit the bill, a pivoting style even better when in the field.

i agree that you don't need expensive rings, if your at walmart, pick up the weaver quad lock for 8.00, they work and look cool too. i have cheap assed b squares on mine, and have not had a problem. not too much recoil to need that super quality grip.

i believe the center point comes with lense covers, but i'd go with the see thru style for snow and rain. take a look at weaver polar caps, they are about the best for the price. keeps your lens dry and clean.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

I agree, an accurate .22LR will beg to be shot at greater distances. In my (probably non-typical) experience, it's a great activity, extremely revealing and educational, and a straighter path into understanding the effects of winds on the more extended portions of trajectories.

I found that as time progressed, I swung back more to shooting in the 50yd to 100yd regime. I still shoot the longer distances to keep my hand in it, but nowadays, my training regimen is more about repetition and consistency, and these can be accomplished quite well at the shorter distances. When dispersion occurs, I can have more certainty whether it originates in skills or conditions.

Greg

 

[kirkhamg]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Spazz;
Congrats on the up-coming Savage.
I picked up a Remington model Five earlier this year and am likewise on a pretty tight budget. My advice is get the Tasco that Greg recommends or the Center point MilDot, they are not without short commings, but pretty darn good for the $. I used Burris signature rings with inserts, as no EGW was available. For you the EGW 20 moa should be a no-brainer. Get a good quality military style sling, I like the leather. This will help with your improvised positions in hunting situations. If this means waiting on a bipod, then just use sandbags or a rest at first.

Next read Top Predator's posts about ammo testing to find the best place to start with ammo.

Last, BUT MOST IMPORTANT!!! Get a note book or assemble a LogBook from pdf files on the web. LEARN TO USE THE LOGBOOK!!! Track how many shots are fired, when and how the bore is cleaned, how many fouling shots it takes to even out, how many shots untill accuracy degrades etc. Weather conditions, light conditions, etc. Take a few minutes after a hunting trip, record what conditions, how much game, weather etc.
A good logbook is priceless!

Best regards.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

rocket surgery...now thats funny

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

CORRECTION: i meant to say 9"-13" adjustable bipod in the post above, the 6-9" is more for a bench rest situation. the 9-13" get you up over ground litter and grass better, while also giving you more pitch at shooting at the squirrels on tree tops from further out. SOME MORE STUFF:

this should keep you busy while we're at it...

22 scope+ mounts+rings threads

22 ammo threads

22 rifle accessories

i have to update these compilations a bit more as there has been some really good factual threads on optics, ammo, and shooting tips that have poped up in the last month or so (including this thread), but you can take a looky at them in the first three newest thread pages.

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Thanks Greg, Top Predator, and El Kabong for your help; again Sniper's Hide is proving to be an invaluable resource for a newbie. Here's what I'm looking at so far on my setup:
Savage MKII BV
EGW 20MOA Base
Rings from some brand I recognize in the gun shop around $5-15
Centerpoint 4-16x40mm illuminated mil-dot scope
Harris 9-12" bipod

I am on a budget but I want things that I can be happy with. The majority of my shooting will be on targets until I get comfortable enough to start hunting, as I refuse to take bad shots. I'm also reading up on how to keep a logbook. Since I'm getting a fresh start here with a new rifle, I may as well do it right and keep track of dope.

The rest of the money I'm planning on putting into this will be for various types of ammunition until I find a couple of types that shoot well. Then I'll buy a ton of that and shoot as much as possible. Thanks again everyone for all of your help!

 

[Aries64]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

<span style="font-weight: bold">Spazz</span>,

Since you're <span style="font-style: italic">"new at this whole optics thing"</span>, you can start off right knowing the correct way to adjust the Ocular Lens (the lens closest to your eye). The Ocular Lens, also known as the <span style="font-style: italic">Eyepiece</span> sets the reticle focus. Without first properly adjusting the Ocular focus for your eyes you can easily "chase your zero" because the point at which the target image is in focus will vary based upon the Ocular focus.

Everyone's eyesight is different, which is why the ocular/eyepiece should be adjusted for <span style="font-weight: bold">your</span> eyesight. <span style="font-weight: bold">When the ocular/eyepiece is properly adjusted for your eyes the reticle will always be in sharp focus regardless of the image focus.</span>

If you have properly adjusted the scope's ocular/eyepiece for <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">your eyes</span></span> you should be able to adjust the the focus ring/knob to the point that the reticle and target are in simultaneous focus. The exceptions to this are that: (a) the target is outside of the focusing range of the scope, (b) the scope is broken, (c) the scope is a POS, or (d) the scope is a broken POS.

When you look at something your eyes naturally focus on the object - the same thing happens when you look through a scope. So when adjusting either the Ocular or Parallax you shouldn't look through the scope for more than a couple of seconds at a time because your eye will automatically begin to compensate to bring the image into focus. This is why people who adjust the ocular and parallax all in one long turn, without looking away every few seconds sometimes get eyestrain and/or headaches.

Below is the correct procedure for Diopter (Ocular/Eyepiece) adjustment for both fixed and variable power scopes. The procedure is the same regardless of scope manufacturer, or whether the objective/parallax focus is on the objective ring or is a side focus type.

<span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> If the scope is a fixed power unit skip steps 1 and 2 as they do not apply.

(1) Turn the magnification ring to maximum (highest power).

(2) Turn the Parallax focus to "Infinity" (the symbol for Infinity looks like a figure eight). <span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> Most non-side focus scopes use a ring on the objective bell to adjust parallax, and the distances are usually numbered. Side focus parallax adjustment knobs may or may not have distances marked.

(3) Turn the ocular bell/eyepiece all the way in.

(4) Aim the scope at a cloudless section of the sky (you don't want anything except sky in the view, or else your eye will naturally attempt to focus on the object in the view beyond the reticle.

(5) Look at something nearby, but not too close, then look through the scope at the reticle. If the reticle is out-of-focus turn it a bit to begin to focusing the reticle, but look away from the scope. Never look at the reticle for more than a couple of seconds when adjusting the eyepiece (if you look at the reticle for more than a second or two your eye will naturally begin to adjust to bring the reticle into focus - and you don't want this to happen. <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">You want to be able to look through the scope and see a sharply focused reticle immediately with your eye relaxed</span></span>). This cannot be achieved by continuously looking through the scope and turning the eyepiece into focus in one continous motion because your eye will have already begun to adjust.

Remember, look away every few seconds and make small adjustments to dial-in the Ocular/Eyepiece focus. Once you have achieved this, you should not adjust the eyepiece at all, except to maintain proper focus as your vision changes over time <span style="font-style: italic">(it always does).</span> You may want to put a pen mark on the eyepiece indexed to the index dot on the scope tube - if the tube doesn't have an index mark use a pencil. That way, if someone else shoots your rifle and adjusts the Ocular you know where to return the adjustment to.

Keith

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Thanks Keith, I had no clue.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Keith, I had no clue. </div></div>
No problem - glad I could help. After determining proper eye relief and mounting the scope to allow for that relief, ocular focus is the most important step in setting up a scope because it affects parallax focus. Parallax focus can affect the POI.

Following the proper procedure for ocular adjustment will probably save you time, frustration, ammo, and a headache or two over time.

Keith

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Alright, the moment I've been waiting for is nearly here. I figured that since I'm getting a scope with mil dots, I may as well learn to use them the way they were intended. Does anyone know at what magnification power the Center Point 4-16x40mm reads true? From what I have seen around the internet, it looks like it should be accurate on 16x. Some people say it works on 10x, but instead of 10 steps between each mil, there are 16.

Also, is each mil 3.438 moa or 3.6 moa? Or since it's a .22, am I just better off to go with 3.5 moa per mil?

Any help you guys can give is, as always, greatly appreciated. Thank you <span style="font-style: italic">again</span>!

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright, the moment I've been waiting for is nearly here. I figured that since I'm getting a scope with mil dots, I may as well learn to use them the way they were intended. Does anyone know at what magnification power the Center Point 4-16x40mm reads true? From what I have seen around the internet, it looks like it should be accurate on 16x. Some people say it works on 10x, but instead of 10 steps between each mil, there are 16.

Also, is each mil 3.438 moa or 3.6 moa? Or since it's a .22, am I just better off to go with 3.5 moa per mil?

Any help you guys can give is, as always, greatly appreciated. Thank you <span style="font-style: italic">again</span>! </div></div>

The method I use to verify ranging:

Measure precisely 36" on the target board (make the marks large enough to be seen through the scope). Look through the scope and bracket the marks so they are exactly 10 mils apart (usually from Heavy Post to Heavy Post). Mark or make a note of that magnification. This is where your reticle accurately ranges.

If your target is not large enough for 36", mark 18" and move the target to 50yds.

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

It seems so simple now. Now all I have to do is get exactly 100 yards from my target board. It's funny that's the method you recommend - I've been messing around here at work with a piece of cardboard I found and measured out a crosshair pattern with large dots 1" apart and hash marks in the 1/2" spaces. Looks like if I can find someone with a range finder I'll be gtg. Thanks buffybuster!

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

I ALWAYS do this with ANY mildot reticle scope. FFP/SFP doesn't matter. Regardless of what the manual states, I double-check it on the range.

Like Reagen said: I "Trust but Verify".

 

[Leland1]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Center Point Scope
Wally World $50.00
Wally World Bipod $40.00

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Which Center Point is that, Leland?

 

[Leland1]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

The Center Point 3-9X32
Mil Dot Red/Green Illuminated reticle

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

for a few bucks more, ($69.00), they have a 4-16 40mm adj obj, red / green ill mildot, with turrets and adj eyebell relief / focus. not a bad scope at all for the money. comes with rings (junky), and flip up lens covers. on the web site they offer a sunshade for $9.99.

granted it's not a nikon, but it has kept a good zero for me over the last 3 years through mucho turret adjustments in heat, cold, snow, rain, etc.

 

[Leland1]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for a few bucks more, ($69.00), they have a 4-16 40mm adj obj, red / green ill mildot, with turrets and adj eyebell relief / focus. not a bad scope at all for the money. comes with rings (junky), and flip up lens covers. on the web site they offer a sunshade for $9.99.

granted it's not a nikon, but it has kept a good zero for me over the last 3 years through mucho turret adjustments in heat, cold, snow, rain, etc.

</div></div>I had to shim mine because it was 1" High and 1" right at 25 yards completely dialed over.
Did you have that problem?

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shooting iron sights on a .22 for long enough, and thanks to a generous set of parents, I'm going to have a Savage MKIIBV for Christmas. Since I'm <span style="font-weight: bold">new</span> at this whole optics thing, I need some pointers.

The BV comes with bases installed. I need rings and a scope. I was wondering if anyone has a setup with this particular gun or one that's basically the same. I need to know what size rings to get and what diameter scope will fit on top of this gun.

I'd like to get a scope that can go to 16x and I'd like parallax adjustment. I also don't like really thick reticles, but I wouldn't mind a rangefinding reticle. I'm also kind of on a budget for this (think $150 or below), so what's the perfect scope that's crisp, clear, high magnification, and dirt cheap?

Going on, I'd like a good bipod to go under the gun. I shoot primarily prone in rolling farmland in Kentucky. We don't have much tall grass, and I target shoot mainly in a mowed area. I'd be hunting squirrels in a wooded area and would most likely be using tree trunks for support if I'm not kneeling or sitting. Any suggestions on a good bipod?

I don't want to sound like a mall ninja, but I've not yet had the extra money to get into precision shooting. The .22 seems like a good place to start, and I want to start off right. Any help you guys have to offer would be great, and thanks in advance. </div></div>

hey, good on you man, for wanting to stick with the .22. Saying that you do is about the last thing the mall ninja crowd would say. They want to jump right in with both feet into the greatest thing they can get thier hands on regardless the fact that they's far from ready...you can learn a lot from a 22

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Optics/setup pointers - getting a .22

Top Predator - that's the scope that I'm putting on my new Savage in about 4 more days. I was just curious as to which one Leland had because I know that Center Point that I have doesn't have a factory sunshade, and there isn't one made, so it caught my attention. That is very sweet paint on your rifle & scope, btw. Did you do that? If you did, did you have to brush it or did you use spray and stencils? Just curious.

ewoaf, I figured I'd be better to start with the .22 because ammunition is in good supply, it's much much cheaper, and it <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> make me learn the proper shooting technique, how to read the wind, make corrections on the fly, and allow me to practice whenever I want to.

I'm really looking forward to getting everything set up on Christmas. I ended up with the Savage MKII BV, EGW 20moa base, Centerpoint 4-16x40, and Harris 9-12" bipod. That should get me pretty accurate out to 100, think?