Suppressors Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

gilgamesh1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 3, 2005
146
2
Sammamish, WA
I am retiring my current carry gun, an Ed Brown Cobra Carry. It has been a fairly comfortable carry and very reliable friend for some number of years.
Picture028.jpg


It's replacement is a Pistol Dynamics XO, a la Paul Liebenberg. 4" slide on an officer sized frame. This one is a Bull Barrel with a custom machined beavertail,countersunk magazine release and other niceities including IonBond coating. By far the best pistol I have ever handled. I have another full size Pistol Dynamics Scout on order. If I am lucky that one might get here for Xmas.

Wanted to share.
Picture025.jpg

Picture027.jpg


 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both are nice pistols, but I'm not a fan of external extractor 1911's </div></div>

That was the first thing I noticed on the new one. The external extractor just turns me off. I like the grips on the old and I would have moved them to the new. I also would have added an undercut trigger guard for a higher grip.

But all in all those are the only changes I would make for MYSELF. Impressive looking weapons none the less.

 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

Yah. This is my first external extractor 1911. But it is the default for Pisol Dynamics pistols. However, internal ones are available as an option. I like to think for myself; however, if Paul Liebenberg feels that the external extractor is superior (on his guns) that's good enough for me. I don't think I need to list his credentials.

Those Davidson horned lizard grips are great, I may need to get a pair for the XO. The bobtail fullsize grips wouldn't fit on the officer sized frame of the XO.

I have had undercut frames and find that I like them but they don't seem to make a difference in my recoil management and they subtly change my NPoa. So I want to keep everything the same between my 1911s.

Thanks for the compliments.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

Nice EB Cobra...it's nice to see the well worn patina of a carry gun that obviously has been carried. I laugh when I see pictures of "carry guns" that look like they have never seen the inside of a holster.

Good luck with your replacement. I've never owned one, but have heard nothing but good about Paul's work.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gilgamesh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yah. This is my first external extractor 1911. But it is the default for Pisol Dynamics pistols. However, internal ones are available as an option. I like to think for myself; however, if Paul Liebenberg feels that the external extractor is superior (on his guns) that's good enough for me. I don't think I need to list his credentials.

Those Davidson horned lizard grips are great, I may need to get a pair for the XO. The bobtail fullsize grips wouldn't fit on the officer sized frame of the XO.

I have had undercut frames and find that I like them but they don't seem to make a difference in my recoil management and they subtly change my NPoa. So I want to keep everything the same between my 1911s.

Thanks for the compliments. </div></div>

I knew the grips wouldnt switch directly. I would see if they made a set to fit the new. I dont know how they feel and work but they sure do look sharp.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

That is a damn fine looking 1911! Everyone would always do something different but as long as you like it and it's comfortable in your hands then that is all that matters. What black coating is that on your new pistol? It's sharp.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

I personally am not a fan. If Browning wanted a 1911 to sport a 4" barrel, a "recessed" magazine release, an external extractor, or or a bull barrel, he would have installed them himself.

Some things are worth customizing, but it's hardly a 1911 anymore when you start doing away with the barrel bushing and installing an external extractor. They're also solutions to problems that don't exist.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

Both are very nice. But, I got to say, that Ed Brown just looks sexy to me. Must be the well "worn in" look or something.

On the comments for your new one, I agree that if Mr. Liebenberg says it will work, you are GTG.

Very nice set there.

And +1 for boltripper's comment.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally am not a fan. If Browning wanted a 1911 to sport a 4" barrel, a "recessed" magazine release, an external extractor, or or a bull barrel, he would have installed them himself.

Some things are worth customizing, but it's hardly a 1911 anymore when you start doing away with the barrel bushing and installing an external extractor. They're also solutions to problems that don't exist. </div></div>

I'm not a fan of external extractor 1911s either but one must recognize that engineering knowledge and technology have advanced since 1911. If Browning designed the 1911 today I'm sure it would be significantly different.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: green_vaccine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally am not a fan. If Browning wanted a 1911 to sport a 4" barrel, a "recessed" magazine release, an external extractor, or or a bull barrel, he would have installed them himself.

Some things are worth customizing, but it's hardly a 1911 anymore when you start doing away with the barrel bushing and installing an external extractor. They're also solutions to problems that don't exist. </div></div>

I'm not a fan of external extractor 1911s either but one must recognize that engineering knowledge and technology have advanced since 1911. If Browning designed the 1911 today I'm sure it would be significantly different. </div></div>
+1 its 2009 people old styles are great BUT they are what they are
the finnish on that brown is awesome
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: green_vaccine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not a fan of external extractor 1911s either but one must recognize that engineering knowledge and technology have advanced since 1911. If Browning designed the 1911 today I'm sure it would be significantly different. </div></div>

Engineering knowledge is certainly better, but the 1911 was designed to have an internal extractor and works best this way. Also, numerous manufacturers have tried to retrofit an external extractor to the 1911 design. Some have been okay and many have failed.

If Browning were to design the 1911 today, I doubt much would change. An internal extractor works great in a single stack gun.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

Nice pistol, there probably isn't a better custom 1911 maker out there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If Browning were to design the 1911 today, I doubt much would change. An internal extractor works great in a single stack gun. </div></div>

The Hi-Power has an external extractor and was designed after the 1911.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally am not a fan. If Browning wanted a 1911 to sport a 4" barrel, a "recessed" magazine release, an external extractor, or or a bull barrel, he would have installed them himself.

Some things are worth customizing, but it's hardly a 1911 anymore when you start doing away with the barrel bushing and installing an external extractor. They're also solutions to problems that don't exist. </div></div>
I hate this kind of post. Enzo Ferrari probably didn't intend for his cars to be made of carbon fiber either, but an Enzo still kicks the shit out of a 1970 Ferrari in virtually every way. If JMB was alive today, I bet he would take full advantage of available technology. The 1911 would probably have a polymer frame.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice pistol, there probably isn't a better custom 1911 maker out there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If Browning were to design the 1911 today, I doubt much would change. An internal extractor works great in a single stack gun. </div></div>

The Hi-Power has an external extractor and was designed after the 1911. </div></div>

It's also double stack. Does it logically follow that JMB's modern day 1911 would have a double column magazine?

I think not.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That Cobra Carry is sweeet!

What kind of finish is that? It looks like a burnished stainless.</div></div>

It is Robar's NP3. Kind of a matte medium grey color. It seems to have gotten a little darker or patina like with time. Although it could just be my imagination.

It is easy to clean and has stood up to time and holster wear. I have an irrational fear of corrosion. What I don't like about it is that it is not black. . . enter IonBond. I'll leave you to google it. But if as advertised, this maybe the "one" ultimate finish. Others I've tried including hardchrome (not black and not great corrosion protection), Wilson Armor Tuff (chips off), and Robar's Roguard (black but fails at edges and too thick) have been disappointing. I'll post a review on the IonBond sometime in the future.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally am not a fan. If Browning wanted a 1911 to sport a 4" barrel, a "recessed" magazine release, an external extractor, or or a bull barrel, he would have installed them himself.

Some things are worth customizing, but it's hardly a 1911 anymore when you start doing away with the barrel bushing and installing an external extractor. They're also solutions to problems that don't exist.</div></div>
In regards to my bastardization of the true 1911 design . . .
Firstly, I have the greatest respect for Mr. Browning and not just for his 1911 design.
Secondly, I can't believe I am getting sucked into this particular discussion.
Thirdly, I have owned many different handguns over the years; I counted 29 autoloaders once. Now I only own 1911 style pistols.

Outside of high end 1911 Ed Brown, Wilson, etc., Every stock 1911 out of the box was less reliable than HK, sig, or glocks that I have owned.

Let me ask you-- have you every had to tune an extractor, polish a feed ramp, lower and flare an ejection port, dick around with various springs and magazines to get your 1911 to function well? I know I have and I never had to do those things with my Hk, sigs and glocks. Once running nothing is as sweet as a 1911. But if the design is perfect or better than more modern designs, why didn't I have to dick around with the other pistols to get them to run well? On more than one 1911 I have had to spend a LOT of time messing with the INTERNAL extractor to get it right. JMB recognized the internal extractor as a weak point in that design. He went to external extractor for the high power AFTER the 1911 and never designed another Internal extractor dependent pistol.

1911 alteration is heresy? Do you have a modern high grip safety, flat mainspring, adjustable sights, lightened hammer or trigger, any lining or checkering, extended thumb safety. If you do you are obviously a heretic and must be burned at the stake.

4" barrel on an officer frame or 4.25" on a bobtail, sure feels better than 5" to me-- particularly when sitting in my car. I can employ it faster too. I can assure you that commander sized pistols of high quality and modern engineering are pretty reliable. I had an officers size once that I could never make reliable, however. My wife has a Springfield EMP (9mm with 3" bull barrel)-- perhaps the ultimate bastardization of the 1911. It runs flawlessly and is a dream to shoot out of the box.

Mr. Browning's design is great and has stood the test of time. But minor alterations can clearly enhance the function for a given end user. For me such things as undercut grips, FLGR, shock buffers, variable power springs, the list goes on are useless and perhaps harmful. But saying that the original design can't be improved upon or tailored to an individual need without harm to function is just ridiculous.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gilgamesh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But saying that the original design can't be improved upon or tailored to an individual need without harm to function is just ridiculous.
</div></div>

This is not what I said. Read it again and try again.

Beavertails, extended thumb safeties, and flat MSHs are a far cry from external extractors, bull barrels, and that bastardized magazine release, not to mention the short barrel.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally am not a fan. If Browning wanted a 1911 to sport a 4" barrel, a "recessed" magazine release, an external extractor, or or a bull barrel, he would have installed them himself.

Some things are worth customizing, but it's hardly a 1911 anymore when you start doing away with the barrel bushing and installing an external extractor. They're also solutions to problems that don't exist.</div></div>

Perhaps you are right; perhaps it is not 1911 anymore. Please note that I say in my post: I own only 1911 "style" pistols. Also, I may not have exactly addressed you post. I think what I was addressing was the attitude that the original 1911 design is the end all be all in terms of autoloading pistols. Which may or may not have been the spirit of your comment.

JMB designed the 1911 as a military side arm; not for conceal carry and bucket car seats with wings. I bet he would want a 4" barrel if he drove my car. If he wanted to design a 4" gun, I sure he could. But there was no need for it then.

If he were to design a compact 1911 for the year 2009, he might like the idea of a bull barrel to mitigate recoil and eliminated the need for a bushing wrench (For tight bushings). If he liked that idea, he might like Paul Liebenberg's ARP that supports the bull barrel throughout the cycle to improve feeding by biasing the breech downward towards the feed ramp (because that ramp angle is finicky in 1911s). And that system mitigates the effects increased slide velocities of the shorter barrel by delaying unlocking of the barrel slightly. All of which might be considered enhancing reliability, assuming JMB needed a 4" gun, which I do. I am pretty sure you and I cannot say for sure what he would have wanted in 2009. I do think he would go with a external extractor with today's manufacturing technology, if he were alive. Eventually, internal ones will go out of tune or BREAK. I believe there are problems with the 1911 design and possible solutions. Why else would it need so much work to be reliable out of the box (see my prior post)

I will continue to call my XO a 1911 "style" pistol, if you'd like. But I bet JMB would pleased to see the refinements to his original design.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice pistol, there probably isn't a better custom 1911 maker out there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If Browning were to design the 1911 today, I doubt much would change. An internal extractor works great in a single stack gun. </div></div>

The Hi-Power has an external extractor and was designed after the 1911. </div></div>

It's also double stack. Does it logically follow that JMB's modern day 1911 would have a double column magazine?

I think not. </div></div>

JMB designed more than just the 1911 proving that there was more than one way to build a firearm. The Browning Tilting barrel being the single common trait. Mix and match features for a better mouse trap, one way isn't more correct and just because a company like Kimber screwed up EE's doesn't make it wrong.

Would JMB only use double stack pistol mags today? Its a dumb question but there are modern single stack 45's on the market, in addition to double stacks.

 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would JMB only use double stack pistol mags today? Its a dumb question but there are modern single stack 45's on the market, in addition to double stacks.
</div></div>

Really? How many modern, full size .45 pistols are single stack? I can think of only one...the Sig P220.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

Since you are retiring that old worn out Ed Brown, I will reluctantly take that miserable pistol off of your hands and I guess I could give you a few dollars for it since you won't be needing that used boat anchor of a pistol anymore....hahahahaha......Nice piece....Smile...SmokeRolls
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gilgamesh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yah. This is my first external extractor 1911. But it is the default for Pisol Dynamics pistols. However, internal ones are available as an option. I like to think for myself; however, <span style="font-style: italic"> </span> if Paul Liebenberg feels that the external extractor is superior (on his guns) that's good enough for me <span style="font-style: italic"> </span> . I don't think I need to list his credentials. </div></div>

Yessir, I would have to agree.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

last I knew JMB was an innovator improving on even his own designs them man was created how many different designs over how many years ? I do think that given the equipment and materials we have today that he would take full advantage of them.

that being said I am not a fan of EE on 1911's either but that is my thought not based on performance but on looks.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Hi-Power has an external extractor and was designed after the 1911. </div></div>

The original Hi-Power had an internal until 1962. Most everything about the Hi-Power had to be worked around the 1911, Colt owned the patents to JMB's work and he couldn't infringe on those patents. JMB had two designs, the roughly basic BAP and a striker fired model that used 16 round magazines (think about modern 9mm pistols, this was in the early 1920's).

Nice 1911, but I agree that I like the Ed Brown a bit more.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

First off, amazing pistols my friend.

Second, you 1911 guys should be ashamed of yourselves, you should all be bitching and moaning at the glock guys and not one of your own. I have never seen this on the hide; is their a split in the leadership in the 1911 community?
grin.gif


Seriously though, nice pistols.
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

Gilgamesh,
None of my business and you can tell me so.

Other then having a new gun,the new one being shorter,double stack:What led ya to replace the Ed Brown?
Excluding shorter = faster draw,How well does the new carry vs the old?
As "carry" goes we are talkin concealed carry correct?
How many years did you carry the Ed Brown?

308Panther
 
Re: Out with the old (1911) in with the new!

Cali compliant means you can drop it and it doesn't go 'BOOM'. I ofcourse think if one drops any handgun hard enough or enough times(like they did back home to pollute the test data) it will go BOOM.

Both nice guns. Me, I owuld hav eused the funds for the replacement to refurb the original. It's Niiiiice!