Got a buddy that says he can anneal cases correctly by putting them in a pan of water just below the shoulder & put in the oven on broil.I have never heard of this. Anyone else?
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Oven Annealling
- Thread starter Ishallbie O'Cullkillin
- Start date
Re: Oven Annealling
Well you need to get neck temp to about 450F. This amount of heat will dry up the water and heat the cases below the shoulder which if left long enough will get to the case head and then you got big problems ! ! ! ! ! ! You are better off using a candle and rotate case neck/shoulder in flame and when you can't hold it any longer drop it. Candle gets cases black but you can also use alcohol lamp and do same thing. They call them jewelers lamps as well. buying alcohol is going to be a problem though.
Back on page 8 or 9 there is long article on case annealing I suggest you read.
Well you need to get neck temp to about 450F. This amount of heat will dry up the water and heat the cases below the shoulder which if left long enough will get to the case head and then you got big problems ! ! ! ! ! ! You are better off using a candle and rotate case neck/shoulder in flame and when you can't hold it any longer drop it. Candle gets cases black but you can also use alcohol lamp and do same thing. They call them jewelers lamps as well. buying alcohol is going to be a problem though.
Back on page 8 or 9 there is long article on case annealing I suggest you read.
Re: Oven Annealling
Pre heat the oven to 451deg. set yer cases in the cakepan, in case holders, up to the shoulder in COLD water and put into the oven for X minutes. remove before water evaporates. Sounds good, but how long would it take to anneal at 450deg?
Pre heat the oven to 451deg. set yer cases in the cakepan, in case holders, up to the shoulder in COLD water and put into the oven for X minutes. remove before water evaporates. Sounds good, but how long would it take to anneal at 450deg?
Re: Oven Annealling
I always thought you had to get the case necks to around 650 degrees. Most ovens can only get up to 500-550 or so. I like using the touch method. Much easier and faster.
I always thought you had to get the case necks to around 650 degrees. Most ovens can only get up to 500-550 or so. I like using the touch method. Much easier and faster.
Re: Oven Annealling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But how do they taste? </div></div>
Good, but it's an acquired taste and hard to find the right wine to complement them!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But how do they taste? </div></div>
Good, but it's an acquired taste and hard to find the right wine to complement them!
Re: Oven Annealling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">650 is what I heard too.</div></div>
Try more like 750-800F.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">650 is what I heard too.</div></div>
Try more like 750-800F.
Re: Oven Annealling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">650 is what I heard too.</div></div>
Try more like 750-800F. </div></div>
650F to 660F is ok 750F = is too hot.
At 650 the neck turns a very light blue a dark blue is too hot and damages the brass.
Take a look at a new Lapua case and you will see the correct light blue annealing color.
Color perseption is different in differet people so a more accurate way to do it is with temp sensing crayons . You can buy them from welding supplies.
One type melts as the temp is reached and another type changes color as it reaches temp.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">650 is what I heard too.</div></div>
Try more like 750-800F. </div></div>
650F to 660F is ok 750F = is too hot.
At 650 the neck turns a very light blue a dark blue is too hot and damages the brass.
Take a look at a new Lapua case and you will see the correct light blue annealing color.
Color perseption is different in differet people so a more accurate way to do it is with temp sensing crayons . You can buy them from welding supplies.
One type melts as the temp is reached and another type changes color as it reaches temp.
Re: Oven Annealling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a buddy that says he can anneal cases correctly by putting them in a pan of water just below the shoulder & put in the oven on broil.I have never heard of this. Anyone else? </div></div>
What kind of seasoning is he using? I find that just a light salt and peppering work about the best.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a buddy that says he can anneal cases correctly by putting them in a pan of water just below the shoulder & put in the oven on broil.I have never heard of this. Anyone else? </div></div>
What kind of seasoning is he using? I find that just a light salt and peppering work about the best.
Re: Oven Annealling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Got a buddy ..."
Your buddy is overthinging annealing from one direction and under thinking it for another. Just learn to usse a torch properly. </div></div>
+1. Just get a torch and the Hornady annealing kit.
Hornady uses the 475 degree paint as their temp. I've read that if you get it over 700 degrees, it will change the metal composition too much, and make the brass too soft. 475-500 is all you need.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Got a buddy ..."
Your buddy is overthinging annealing from one direction and under thinking it for another. Just learn to usse a torch properly. </div></div>
+1. Just get a torch and the Hornady annealing kit.
Hornady uses the 475 degree paint as their temp. I've read that if you get it over 700 degrees, it will change the metal composition too much, and make the brass too soft. 475-500 is all you need.
Re: Oven Annealling
Below is an article written by Ken light
"Brass is an excellent conductor of heat. A flame applied at any point on a case for a short time will cause the rest of the case to heat very quickly. There are several temperatures at which brass is affected. Also, the time the brass remains at a given temperature will have an effect. Brass which has been "work hardened" (sometimes referred to as "cold worked") is unaffected by temperatures up to 482 degrees (F) regardless of the time it is left at this temperature. Remember, water boils at 212 degrees (F), and oil heated in a frying pan easily reaches 500(F) or more degrees. (All temperatures will be in Fahrenheit).
At about 495 degrees (F) some changes in grain structure begins to occur, although the brass remains about as hard as before -- it would take a laboratory analysis to see the changes that take place at this temperature.
If cases are heated to about 600 degrees (F) for one hour, they will be thoroughly annealed -- head and body included. That is, they will be ruined. (For a temperature comparison, pure lead melts at 621.3 degrees (F)).
The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft. Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done -- it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:"
> Due to conduction, the amount of heat necessary to sufficiently anneal the case neck is great enough to ruin the rest of the case.
2> If the case necks are exposed to heat for a sufficient period of time, a lower temperature can be used.
3> The longer the case necks are exposed to heat, the greater the possibility that too much heat will be conducted into the body and head, thereby ruining the cases.
4> The higher the temperature, the less time the case necks will be exposed to heat, and there will be insufficient time for heat to be conducted into the body and head.
Below is an article written by Ken light
"Brass is an excellent conductor of heat. A flame applied at any point on a case for a short time will cause the rest of the case to heat very quickly. There are several temperatures at which brass is affected. Also, the time the brass remains at a given temperature will have an effect. Brass which has been "work hardened" (sometimes referred to as "cold worked") is unaffected by temperatures up to 482 degrees (F) regardless of the time it is left at this temperature. Remember, water boils at 212 degrees (F), and oil heated in a frying pan easily reaches 500(F) or more degrees. (All temperatures will be in Fahrenheit).
At about 495 degrees (F) some changes in grain structure begins to occur, although the brass remains about as hard as before -- it would take a laboratory analysis to see the changes that take place at this temperature.
If cases are heated to about 600 degrees (F) for one hour, they will be thoroughly annealed -- head and body included. That is, they will be ruined. (For a temperature comparison, pure lead melts at 621.3 degrees (F)).
The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft. Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done -- it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:"
> Due to conduction, the amount of heat necessary to sufficiently anneal the case neck is great enough to ruin the rest of the case.
2> If the case necks are exposed to heat for a sufficient period of time, a lower temperature can be used.
3> The longer the case necks are exposed to heat, the greater the possibility that too much heat will be conducted into the body and head, thereby ruining the cases.
4> The higher the temperature, the less time the case necks will be exposed to heat, and there will be insufficient time for heat to be conducted into the body and head.
Re: Oven Annealling
Having actually *used* the Hornady kit, and read the destructions accompanying it... Hornady uses the 475F paint because it is supposed to be used 1/4" below the shoulder - as the neck will be considerably hotter. This has been covered time and time again.
For the people thinking 750 is too hot... I invite you to read the blurb from Ken Light (or a much more detailed version here) - 662 @ 15 *minutes*, or 750+ for a few seconds. If you want to sit there jacking around with each case @ 650F for 15 minutes, be my guest
Actually, just do an internet search for cartridge brass physical properties or annealing temperatures - commonly listed as 800-1400F (as shown here)
Having actually *used* the Hornady kit, and read the destructions accompanying it... Hornady uses the 475F paint because it is supposed to be used 1/4" below the shoulder - as the neck will be considerably hotter. This has been covered time and time again.
For the people thinking 750 is too hot... I invite you to read the blurb from Ken Light (or a much more detailed version here) - 662 @ 15 *minutes*, or 750+ for a few seconds. If you want to sit there jacking around with each case @ 650F for 15 minutes, be my guest
Actually, just do an internet search for cartridge brass physical properties or annealing temperatures - commonly listed as 800-1400F (as shown here)
Re: Oven Annealling
Thanks guys. I have a Hornady kit, but have yet to use it. I couldn't tell him why I wouldn't broil my brass, I just didn't think it was a good idea. I am trying to get him to start reading on this site.
Thanks guys. I have a Hornady kit, but have yet to use it. I couldn't tell him why I wouldn't broil my brass, I just didn't think it was a good idea. I am trying to get him to start reading on this site.
Re: Oven Annealling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having actually *used* the Hornady kit, and read the destructions accompanying it... Hornady uses the 475F paint because it is supposed to be used 1/4" below the shoulder - as the neck will be considerably hotter. This has been covered time and time again.
For the people thinking 750 is too hot... I invite you to read the blurb from Ken Light (or a much more detailed version here) - 662 @ 15 *minutes*, or 750+ for a few seconds. If you want to sit there jacking around with each case @ 650F for 15 minutes, be my guest
Actually, just do an internet search for cartridge brass physical properties or annealing temperatures - commonly listed as 800-1400F (as shown here)
</div></div>
Even at 415F some annealing takes place as soon as you reach the temperature . Its only thin brass not an inch thick.
heating a case neck to 750F for more than a few seconds will change the grain structure too much. You don't need that much anneal.
From Ken Light " The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.
So 750F for more than a few seconds is TOO HOT! as said before!
MR Light has a rotating apparatus that exposes the case necks to extremely short and controlled duration of a few seconds .
That is a completely different situation from a guy with a hand held gass torch which most are using.
You can NOT heat a case with a small hobbie gass torch in just a few seconds easily and uniformly . It usually takes about 5 to 10 seconds per case.
At about 650F " measured at the shoulder " for about 10 seconds will give a useful anneal and not risk ruining the case.
It does not take 15 minuets thats just bull.
The actual neck area will get somewaht hotter than the 650F.
However it confusing and dangerous to just say heat it up to 750F to 800F because someone will measure that temp at the shoulder and ruin their cases.
Even the melting point of lead at about 621F will give a useful anneal to cases by just dipping a clean , dry , deprimed case in to about the shoulder and holding it for about 10 to 15 seconds depending on size and then throw it in water to stop any extra heat reaching the base.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having actually *used* the Hornady kit, and read the destructions accompanying it... Hornady uses the 475F paint because it is supposed to be used 1/4" below the shoulder - as the neck will be considerably hotter. This has been covered time and time again.
For the people thinking 750 is too hot... I invite you to read the blurb from Ken Light (or a much more detailed version here) - 662 @ 15 *minutes*, or 750+ for a few seconds. If you want to sit there jacking around with each case @ 650F for 15 minutes, be my guest
Actually, just do an internet search for cartridge brass physical properties or annealing temperatures - commonly listed as 800-1400F (as shown here)
</div></div>
Even at 415F some annealing takes place as soon as you reach the temperature . Its only thin brass not an inch thick.
heating a case neck to 750F for more than a few seconds will change the grain structure too much. You don't need that much anneal.
From Ken Light " The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.
So 750F for more than a few seconds is TOO HOT! as said before!
MR Light has a rotating apparatus that exposes the case necks to extremely short and controlled duration of a few seconds .
That is a completely different situation from a guy with a hand held gass torch which most are using.
You can NOT heat a case with a small hobbie gass torch in just a few seconds easily and uniformly . It usually takes about 5 to 10 seconds per case.
At about 650F " measured at the shoulder " for about 10 seconds will give a useful anneal and not risk ruining the case.
It does not take 15 minuets thats just bull.
The actual neck area will get somewaht hotter than the 650F.
However it confusing and dangerous to just say heat it up to 750F to 800F because someone will measure that temp at the shoulder and ruin their cases.
Even the melting point of lead at about 621F will give a useful anneal to cases by just dipping a clean , dry , deprimed case in to about the shoulder and holding it for about 10 to 15 seconds depending on size and then throw it in water to stop any extra heat reaching the base.
Re: Oven Annealling
I got a buddy who anneals his cases in the microwave submersed in bacon grease.
He actually wrote "brass" over the popcorn button.
I got a buddy who anneals his cases in the microwave submersed in bacon grease.
He actually wrote "brass" over the popcorn button.
Re: Oven Annealling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got a buddy who anneals his cases in the microwave submersed in bacon grease.
He actually wrote "brass" over the popcorn button. </div></div>
That's is funny .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got a buddy who anneals his cases in the microwave submersed in bacon grease.
He actually wrote "brass" over the popcorn button. </div></div>
That's is funny .
