Gunsmithing Pacific Tool and Gauge

[mcfred]

Here's another data point: I recently assembled a rifle using a 100% PTG bolt (bolt/cocking piece/firing pin/spring etc.) and within 60 rounds the tip of a PTG lightweight firing pin broke off. There was an obvious defect with the steel material itself (an inclusion) and not really anything PTG could have anticipated IMO.

Upon disassembly, in addition to the pin tip having snapped off, the cocking piece retention pin was also broken in half, and the steel 'head' had come unglued from the aluminum pin body and loosened to where I could un-thread it by hand. I relayed this info when I emailed the photos of the pin to PTG.

The short story is that it took a total of 44 days to contact PTG and receive a replacement firing pin. I was traveling for work and neglected to nag them for 3-4 weeks for a tracking code. They did pick up the phone during business hours, and they did call me back when I bothered to leave a message once. They did not respond to my emails except when they forwarded me the tracking code. The people I talked to were nice and were trying to help, but it is just not a streamlined process. Undoubtedly, some of that time was absorbed by Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. Take that info for what it's worth.

I figured that it was going to take a while so I took apart a spare factory Remington and used a tool post grinder to make it fit the PTG bolt (.062" FP hole) so my rifle was functioning again in the meantime. Now I have a back-up pin in case the modified factory one ever fails.

For Reference:

 

[Lynn Jr]

Yeah the girls that answer the phones are for the most part college kids working for some extra cash and have zero experience with firearms.
When you leave California you go about 30 miles into Oregon make a right turn and go past the dragstrip and 600 yard NBRSA range and they are a couple miles past that in white city.
Not much there.
If you get Dave on the phone he will talk your ear off and that means 30-60 minutes so very few calls go to him per day.
If you have a problem for the most part they make you a new part rather than working on your old part so it's like starting over.
Luckily I have never had an issue buying actions or bolts and the entire crew has always been great.
If your after a custom bolt it's easier to do it online than by phone because the phone ladies have to ask about everything.
I recently bought a B66 Destroyer action for a CheyTac build and it was cheaper and faster than a Stiller and it's the same action.

 

[shooter65]

Ordered two thread protectors online. Had them in the mailbox USPS Priortity Mail 2 days later.

 

[mudpig]

I recently (Dec 17) ordered a barrel fluting cutter. It shipped on the 19th and had it in my hands on the 22nd and a barrel fluted by the 23rd. Everything worked as it should. I just placed an order for some custom ground chamber reamers. Anxious to get those in hand although I know it will take 6-8 weeks for these.
Happy New Year!!!

 

[badassgunworks]

Been dealing with pt&g for 20 plus years have I had problems before yes I have . but have I had problems with other reamer manufatcors ? yes I have. does pt&g take care of there problems yes they do. (some times takes some work on my part ) was I able to get the other companies to take care of there problems? No I was not . Pt&g is a huge company. The bigger the company more issues understanding that and follow ups are needed to get what you need and when you need it . knowing the issues if you wait till you need something then bitch cause They are not Johnny on the spot its your fault. Order what you need. follow up on it several times and you will get what you need when you need it schedule you work accordingly. I can get any reamer I need in 2 to 3 weeks from pt&g no issues at all. simple facts working relationships don't happen over night . the customer service I get from pt&g is great but that relationship takes time. Don't expect him to drop every thing he is doing to produce a reamer for you as if your the only guy out there needing something. so many guys are cry babies I want what I want when I want it and my project is way more important that yours. perhaps the reason it takes so long for guys to get there stuff is due to the fact that he is working on my stuff. lol And remember for every 100 complaints there are 1000's of people with no issues. remember the larger the company the law of #'s dictate more issues.

 

[MarinePMI]

Been dealing with pt&g for 20 plus years have I had problems before yes I have . but have I had problems with other reamer manufatcors ? yes I have. does pt&g take care of there problems yes they do. (some times takes some work on my part ) was I able to get the other companies to take care of there problems? No I was not . Pt&g is a huge company. The bigger the company more issues understanding that and follow ups are needed to get what you need and when you need it . knowing the issues if you wait till you need something then bitch cause They are not Johnny on the spot its your fault. Order what you need. follow up on it several times and you will get what you need when you need it schedule you work accordingly. I can get any reamer I need in 2 to 3 weeks from pt&g no issues at all. simple facts working relationships don't happen over night . the customer service I get from pt&g is great but that relationship takes time. Don't expect him to drop every thing he is doing to produce a reamer for you as if your the only guy out there needing something. so many guys are cry babies I want what I want when I want it and my project is way more important that yours. perhaps the reason it takes so long for guys to get there stuff is due to the fact that he is working on my stuff. lol And remember for every 100 complaints there are 1000's of people with no issues. remember the larger the company the law of #'s dictate more issues.

LOL! I waited four months for something that was listed as "in stock". Then it didn't fit (bottom metal). This was AFTER Dave Kiff himself came on this board and said they would. Their response? Restocking fee and no acknowledgement that they fucked up royally. Basically a "Fuck you" and "Take it or leave it (but we're still going to charge you a fee)".

Ain't no whining here, just the expectation that what is advertised, and lead times given are MET. The price certainly didn't change on the transaction (agreement), but the lead time and fit can(?). WTF?

Smh...they used to be the "go to" place for stuff. But I fear those days are long past. They are more of an industry supplier than a one off gunsmith supplier of old. Shrug. That's their decision (and right). So is mine to spend money elsewhere.

 

[RidiculousMetacarpus]

When i ordered a PTG B-23 (Tac 30) it got here in like 10 days. Had it barreled up by mile high and it turned out really nice.

The majority of bad reviews i read are about not liking someones tone of voice on the phone or delayed shipping / communication screw ups.

 

[badassgunworks]

When i ordered a PTG B-23 (Tac 30) it got here in like 10 days. Had it barreled up by mile high and it turned out really nice.

The majority of bad reviews i read are about not liking someones tone of voice on the phone or delayed shipping / communication screw ups.

communication is a big factor.

 

[woodsy]

There shouldn't be any need to follow-up on an order. Having to keep in touch with them to ensure that they're getting your order right and out the door is unacceptable. Most of us have better things to do than to maintain an ass-kissing relationship with a vendor. Mutual respect between customer and vendor works very well but PTG seems to have forgotten this.

 

[badassgunworks]

There shouldn't be any need to follow-up on an order. Having to keep in touch with them to ensure that they're getting your order right and out the door is unacceptable. Most of us have better things to do than to maintain an ass-kissing relationship with a vendor. Mutual respect between customer and vendor works very well but PTG seems to have forgotten this.

a simple follow up to make sure things are in production and that things are on schedule is simple task if your on top you game and have customers to handle as well its just a CYA . I do this with every supplier I guess its just something I picked up from the automotive industry.

 

[badassgunworks]

a simple follow up to make sure things are in production and that things are on schedule is simple task if your on top of your game and have customers to handle as well its just a CYA . I do this with every supplier I guess its just something I picked up from the automotive industry.

 

[RidiculousMetacarpus]

I have not been in this side of guns (custom bolt guns that is) for long, but i have noticed there are tons and tons of new shops / companies popping up all over the place in the last handful of years in virtue of the PRS (and particularly the 6.5 hysteria) taking off - that did not exist in say, ~2010.

It seems to me that many of these shops are really trying to be THE goto (Defiance, Curtis, LRI, whatever dont overthink it), and thus really go above and beyond in their followups and general service (beyond what the base level was in say pre-2010 days, just as a mere example to drive my point home. This is an arbitrary number folks, try not to miss my point here).

And then you companies like PTG, who are used to that old baseline, and have been around since 1957 (apparently).

So on one hand you have an illusion to be treated like royalty merely because many "newer" (post ~2010) ultra competitive shops are everywhere these days, with new ranges, actions, optics, gear, popping up that did not exist anywhere to the magnitude it does now - and are going to go out of their way to be competitive (follow up i guess(, and on the other, you have the "sub-par" baseline of service that existed prior to the PRS / 6.5 craze. I would imagine this is where the complainers like to fill in the blank for PTG.

Im not saying this therefore justifies whatever issues people have had with PTG, but i think it's good food for thought?

Analogy: Remington post-2004 versus BCM post-2004. Old management stuck in a time warp, but riding the wave as long as it can i suppose, versus a newer company that understood the implications of the AWB sun-setting.

I dont know enough about who runs PTG to understand if this is actually whats going on (stuck in a different decade, or better put baseline of what is "satisfactory" service)), but i think it's something to think about it. Inb4 someone claims im "shilling" for ptg, lmao (i wanted a mausingfield, but too poor)

 

[Threadcutter308]

I have not been in this side of guns (custom bolt guns that is) for long, but i have noticed there are tons and tons of new shops / companies popping up all over the place in the last handful of years in virtue of the PRS (and particularly the 6.5 hysteria) taking off - that did not exist in say, ~2010.

It seems to me that many of these shops are really trying to be THE goto (Defiance, Curtis, LRI, whatever dont overthink it), and thus really go above and beyond in their followups and general service (beyond what the base level was in say pre-2010 days, just as a mere example to drive my point home. This is an arbitrary number folks, try not to miss my point here).

And then you companies like PTG, who are used to that old baseline, and have been around since 1957 (apparently).

So on one hand you have an illusion to be treated like royalty merely because many "newer" (post ~2010) ultra competitive shops are everywhere these days, with new ranges, actions, optics, gear, popping up that did not exist anywhere to the magnitude it does now - and are going to go out of their way to be competitive (follow up i guess(, and on the other, you have the "sub-par" baseline of service that existed prior to the PRS / 6.5 craze. I would imagine this is where the complainers like to fill in the blank for PTG.

Im not saying this therefore justifies whatever issues people have had with PTG, but i think it's good food for thought?

Analogy: Remington post-2004 versus BCM post-2004. Old management stuck in a time warp, but riding the wave as long as it can i suppose, versus a newer company that understood the implications of the AWB sun-setting.

I dont know enough about who runs PTG to understand if this is actually whats going on (stuck in a different decade, or better put baseline of what is "satisfactory" service)), but i think it's something to think about it. Inb4 someone claims im "shilling" for ptg, lmao (i wanted an axiom mausingfield, but too poor)

Please do not take my response as a personal affront to you, because it is not in any way.

It does sound like maybe you have not experienced a perfectly straightforward order go sideways and turn into a complete shitshow with them (?). I have, as have many others and I'm done with them. I even took the time to write Kiff a letter about the most recent cluster (3+ years ago) and let him know where the problems were. I asked for nothing in return. No credits, no free swag, no nothing. I never even received the courtesy of a "fuck you very much" response from him. I made the effort to write him because when he left JGS (2000'ish (?)), they were not easy to deal with and I went to him for a modified .338L reamer, which he really did a great job on.

I've moved on. There are other, better choices out there. I am a loyal person, but my loyalty has limitations. Those limitations have been exceeded by PTG. As I have said before, it's sad. PTG has the potential to be a very good outfit again. That's not going to happen until Kiff starts giving a shit and begins to address some of the problems. Having said that, it might be unfair to appear to imply the faults rest with the employees.

BTW, Dave Manson is a great guy to deal with if you are looking for reamers, gages, etc.

 

[RidiculousMetacarpus]

No, I don't see it as an affront at all.

My point was, you have a 60 year old status quo company (PTG) that might think it's putting out "good" customer service, because it's stuck in a time warp. And at the same time, on the polar end of the extreme (this is my primary point), you have many many headline companies (the ones you read about in "my new build" threads, or the prs site, or tfb, or whatever) that are ultra competitive (perfect service, zero out of 10 billion fuck ups, the extra mile) purely due to competition. And that they exist as an availability heuristic gives off the illusion that they are "the" new standard, when they won't be when the market levels off (it will regress to the mean instead).

To go further, companies should be bashed whenever they suck vs the rest. I was just trying to offer a time perspective.

 

[Threadcutter308]

No, I don't see it as an affront at all.

My point was, you have a 60 year old status quo company (PTG) that might think it's putting out "good" customer service, because it's stuck in a time warp. And at the same time, on the polar end of the extreme (this is my primary point), you have many many headline companies (the ones you read about in "my new build" threads, or the prs site, or tfb, or whatever) that are ultra competitive (perfect service, zero out of 10 billion fuck ups, the extra mile) purely due to competition. And that they exist as an availability heuristic gives off the illusion that they are "the" new standard, when they won't be when the market levels off (it will regress to the mean instead).

Yeah, the market is merciless in that regard. The thing that bothers me the most is the ambivalence. It could/can/should be fixed, but apparently, ownership doesn't give a shit.

 

[RidiculousMetacarpus]

Most eventually settle for less. They think "hey, it pays the bills, we made our dent, etc" and they get old and stop giving a fuck. It applies to any field, really. Even the most famous philosophers succumb to this lol

 

[MarinePMI]

No, I don't see it as an affront at all.

My point was, you have a 60 year old status quo company (PTG) that might think it's putting out "good" customer service, because it's stuck in a time warp. And at the same time, on the polar end of the extreme (this is my primary point), you have many many headline companies (the ones you read about in "my new build" threads, or the prs site, or tfb, or whatever) that are ultra competitive (perfect service, zero out of 10 billion fuck ups, the extra mile) purely due to competition. And that they exist as an availability heuristic gives off the illusion that they are "the" new standard, when they won't be when the market levels off (it will regress to the mean instead).

To go further, companies should be bashed whenever they suck vs the rest. I was just trying to offer a time perspective.

I hear what you're saying, but PTG's shit CS had been going down hill long before the Obama run on firearms and the craze of PRS kicked off. Nope. On this one, PTG owns the shit storm (of their own making) all by themselves.

Hell, even Chad at LRI got to the point of thinking about tooling up and offering reamers, since so many were fed up with PTG.

 

[Clark]

PTG takes forever if it is not in stock.
Manson takes forever if it is not in stock.
But Manson is smart on the phone, the PTG girls know nothing..... deal with the PTG website.

 

[Mordamer]

Just took a brand new PT&G throating reamer out of the package and proceeded to length a chamber throat. Reamer was ordered to cut a .2245" diameter throat. It cut a ~.2239" diameter throat. Bullets had to be forced into throat leaving a scrape mark around the circumference. I am sending it back as soon as I get an RMA from them. I hope they take care of this, but it sucks to have to take a barrel out of the lathe and dial it in again when/if they replace the reamer with a good one.

 

[badassgunworks]

Just took a brand new PT&G throating reamer out of the package and proceeded to length a chamber throat. Reamer was ordered to cut a .2245" diameter throat. It cut a ~.2239" diameter throat. Bullets had to be forced into throat leaving a scrape mark around the circumference. I am sending it back as soon as I get an RMA from them. I hope they take care of this, but it sucks to have to take a barrel out of the lathe and dial it in again when/if they replace the reamer with a good one.

have had reames out of spect by manson and jgs and ptg I measure everything when it comes in to make sure its correct

 

[RonA]

I need a reamer for a project and the only place with a print was PTG. I had them send me a drawing to look at and sent it off to another shop to get it made. Got an email back that the dimensions didn't figure out right so I double checked and they did the math wrong. .011 off on the body taper/ start of shoulder point. I'll have to do a cast of the reloading die now and see if they caught it.

 

[mudpig]

Last time I ordered a reamer I talked directly to Dave Kiff. Great guy.....make sure you have lots of time cause he can really talk. Lots of good information from him as he is VERY knowledgeable. Reamer turned out Perfect.
Hope they get stuff straightened out for you in short order.

 

[fdkay]

Last time I ordered a reamer I talked directly to Dave Kiff. Great guy.....make sure you have lots of time cause he can really talk. Lots of good information from him as he is VERY knowledgeable. Reamer turned out Perfect.
Hope they get stuff straightened out for you in short order.

Dave Kiff has a reputation as a great guy that is very knowledgeable and very talented.
His product line has grown and apparently, he isn't as involved in the production process as he once was.
More than 1 person has begged him to right the ship.

 

[missed]

Out of spec reamer, chamber was way too big, then I was told by there customer service I don't know what I'm doing. I'll throw rocks before doing business with them again.

 

[LtDan47]

My latest adventure with PTG , I ordered a set of Grendel NO, and Go Gauges from them they had one go in stock and not the other so they said they would be about 6 weeks. At 8 weeks plus I called Manson talked to them they had both in stock so I signed up for them. Emailed PTG and cancelled the order and they charged me 15 bucks for restocking for a part they haven't even made. Lesson learned.

 

[badassgunworks]

Ever think where this industry would be with out companies like pt&g and guys like Dave kiff try getting help from manson jgs

 

[Lynn Jr]

I am guessing most of the posters here have never been to PT&G and most here don't realise how much stuff they make for other manufacturers.

How good is JGS or Manson bottom metal?
What bolts and actions do Manson and JGS sell?
Whiners gonna whine.

 

[Supersubes]

I am guessing most of the posters here have never been to PT&G and most here don't realise how much stuff they make for other manufacturers.

How good is JGS or Manson bottom metal?
What bolts and actions do Manson and JGS sell?
Whiners gonna whine.

But Lynn, how many screwed up reamers have you gotten from PTG? They’re approaching legend status with their dimensional screwups. LRI was a big proponent of PTG, for them to come out against them so publicly, speaks volumes. Sucks to spend time cutting a chamber, only to find out it’s dimensions are not what you ordered.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I have never received a bad reamer from Dave Kiff and I will leave anything from Chad alone on this website.
His reamers have produced world records from my guns and the only screwups I have seen were from gunsmiths.
I was sent the wrong extractors from PT&G and they got replaced but that had nothing to do with some vast conspiracy.
For those that feel slighted simply move on and vote with your feet and money.
Order up a Hugh Hendrickson reamer and let me know how long it takes.

 

[RonA]

I shouldn't have picked the scab off this thread. It was starting to heal.

 

[Supersubes]

I have never received a bad reamer from Dave Kiff and I will leave anything from Chad alone on this website.
His reamers have produced world records from my guns and the only screwups I have seen were from gunsmiths.
I was sent the wrong extractors from PT&G and they got replaced but that had nothing to do with some vast conspiracy.
For those that feel slighted simply move on and vote with your feet and money.
Order up a Hugh Hendrickson reamer and let me know how long it takes.

Nobody’s saying they can’t make a good reamer, they’ve just been screwing up an awful lot. Seems like more every day(like LRI), are jumping ship.

 

[Kickin45]

The ‘no background check’ is disturbing to me.
Isn’t it mandatory to do backgrounds on people in the firearms trade?
Sounds like the owner is a douche

 

[LRI]

 

[Lynn Jr]

Yeah Dave Kiff is a Russian spy and he is going out of his way to send out bad reamers.
Now go read all threads here and you wouldn't buy anything from anyone.

 

[LRI]

Yeah Dave Kiff is a Russian spy and he is going out of his way to send out bad reamers.
Now go read all threads here and you wouldn't buy anything from anyone.

It has nothing to do with reality TV.

14 months on a tool. A tool sent back no less than 3 times. Pilots too big, pilots too small, no coating, blah, blah, and BLAH.

Bear in mind, it takes a woman less time to create a child.

21 years. How long I've known the man. Had this been the first time, it happens. It's been a 5 year trend.

I get it now...

Not my problem to solve anymore.

Done.

 

[Supersubes]

It has nothing to do with reality TV.

14 months on a tool. A tool sent back no less than 3 times. Pilots too big, pilots too small, no coating, blah, blah, and BLAH.

Bear in mind, it takes a woman less time to create a child.

21 years. How long I've known the man. Had this been the first time, it happens. It's been a 5 year trend.

I get it now...

Not my problem to solve anymore.

Done.

Chad, that just can’t be! I think you should set aside your own bad experiences with them, and defer to Lynn’s good experiences. You should also give them extra leeway because they make a lots of other shit. LOL.

 

[Threadcutter308]

It has nothing to do with reality TV.

14 months on a tool. A tool sent back no less than 3 times. Pilots too big, pilots too small, no coating, blah, blah, and BLAH.

Bear in mind, it takes a woman less time to create a child.

21 years. How long I've known the man. Had this been the first time, it happens. It's been a 5 year trend.

I get it now...

Not my problem to solve anymore.

Done.

No worries Chad, most of us get it (based on personal experience). And, I will say it again; I really wish Kiff would fix the problems. He's been a great supplier in the past, he/PTG have the potential to produce great products consistently and he employs Americans. I really want to see him be successful. But, he's got to fix things first.

 

[Supersubes]

No worries Chad, most of us get it (based on personal experience). And, I will say it again; I really wish Kiff would fix the problems. He's been a great supplier in the past, he/PTG have the potential to produce great products consistently and he employs Americans. I really want to see him be successful. But, he's got to fix things first.

Couldn’t agree more!

 

[Lynn Jr]

And like I posted none of you have been there.
His shop is 34 miles inside of Southern Oregon and the crew for the most part is a bunch of students who could give a shit less about anything.
If you read the earlier posts with the reviews they fire people with drug issues then hire them back after they promise to fly straight only to get screwed over by them again.
And while I sympathize with a 14 month wait on a reamer pilots too big and too small is easily corrected by ordering them online from one of Dave's stocking vendors.
And like I posted order a real reamer from High Hendrickson and report back to us in 2021 if you have it yet.
So you offer a blueprinting service for Remington 700's if I read that right?
Whose bolts go into those blueprinted receivers? Or are you double sleeving them?
I read here that BAT actions have the same problems. I then read that the poster bashing them promises 2 months and takes 9.
I also read here to never ship a gun via UPS USPS DHL or FedEx.

 

[TresMon]

If Dave Kiff had the only remaining ammo and or reloading components on planet earth, I'd take up archery. Dude screwed me over hard core. I was out of state headed for a Tactical PRS match......stopped for gas...my debit card was declined. I was stranded essentially. Zero money, except the Emergency $100 I keep folded up in my wallet. I had to hitch hike to the local walmart where some friends wired me money. Turns out the %$^&*&%#$ charged me for 5 custom reamer grinds instead of one. HE NEVER MADE IT RIGHT EITHER. He didn't give a crap. I talked to him 4 times on the phone and then he refused my calls. His reamers are hit or miss also. Sometimes they cut fine. Some times they give high frequency chatter, sometimes they give low Freq chatter. I know a list that's long as my arm of people who had similar stupid trouble out of Dave and swear they will never ever give him another single penny.

 

[Lynn Jr]

If Dave Kiff had the only remaining ammo and or reloading components on planet earth, I'd take up archery. Dude screwed me over hard core. I was out of state headed for a Tactical PRS match......stopped for gas...my debit card was declined. I was stranded essentially. Zero money, except the Emergency $100 I keep folded up in my wallet. I had to hitch hike to the local walmart where some friends wired me money. Turns out the %$^&*&%#$ charged me for 5 custom reamer grinds instead of one. HE NEVER MADE IT RIGHT EITHER. He didn't give a crap. I talked to him 4 times on the phone and then he refused my calls. His reamers are hit or miss also. Sometimes they cut fine. Some times they give high frequency chatter, sometimes they give low Freq chatter. I know a list that's long as my arm of people who had similar stupid trouble out of Dave and swear they will never ever give him another single penny.

So you think Dave is running credit cards and not one of the girls on the phone?
I never said he was perfect but it seems on this forum he is out to get you guys personally.

 

[Supersubes]

So you think Dave is running credit cards and not one of the girls on the phone?
I never said he was perfect but it seems on this forum he is out to get you guys personally.

Why does it matter that we haven’t gone to his shop? You admit his employees suck? We already know this, as that’s what these threads are about. Frankly it wouldn't matter nearly so much if they actually fixed their mistakes without hitting you in the pocket book first. Have you seen all the other threads about PtG? I recall one that ran for years, and was dozens and dozens of pages long. Unmatched in my view. Dave is the head of the ship, ultimate he is responsible. I get it though, you two are buddies, and you need to defend him.

 

[LRI]

And like I posted none of you have been there.
His shop is 34 miles inside of Southern Oregon and the crew for the most part is a bunch of students who could give a shit less about anything.
If you read the earlier posts with the reviews they fire people with drug issues then hire them back after they promise to fly straight only to get screwed over by them again.
And while I sympathize with a 14 month wait on a reamer pilots too big and too small is easily corrected by ordering them online from one of Dave's stocking vendors.
And like I posted order a real reamer from High Hendrickson and report back to us in 2021 if you have it yet.
So you offer a blueprinting service for Remington 700's if I read that right?
Whose bolts go into those blueprinted receivers? Or are you double sleeving them?
I read here that BAT actions have the same problems. I then read that the poster bashing them promises 2 months and takes 9.
I also read here to never ship a gun via UPS USPS DHL or FedEx.

1. "Lemme tell ewe something ewe don't know about eeewwwweeee." "Have you read my book?" This Dr. Phil or Sniper's Hide?

Drug issues? Really? Drugs are not my problem. That should mean that every single business in the Pacific Northwest is on the verge of imploding. They aren't. Aerospace and medical manufacturing thrive there. Stop hiring out of the work release programs and the piss won't glow in the dark. Recognize and Invest in human capital and you'll attract talent. People generally don't leave a great job to go work a shitty one.

Nevermind that its not my problem to solve. Period. We live in a capitalist world driven by capitalists. If an owner cannot adapt to solve a problem, the appetite of the organism known as the business world deal with you accordingly.

Anyone who's ever inked their name on a dotted line, opened a storefront, or unlocks the door every morning understands this.

We, business owners, WE ALL have problems that confront us daily, hourly, by the minute. You trying to throw the sympathy card is about the lamest one I've heard yet. Now come get your hug or whatever.

2. Tooling:

You assume I use the same pilots as what's carried on the stores. I don't. Regardless. WHEN you order the pilot set WITH the tool, one might think that someone might take 120 seconds and see if they actually fit onto the end of the reamer. Take a poll. How many have called them when the shit is 3 months late and you get the tried and true "It's in final inspection being wrapped up." Well, what is final inspection? Inspection or the place you go to fire up the blunt?

Nevermind that it was sent back TWICE already because they either didn't fit, rattled on like a marble in a coffee can, or were a 1/3rd shorter than they were supposed to be.


3. I've been offering blueprinted OEM actions for a decade. The machine is new, not the process.

I use OEM FACTORY bolts for 99.9% of the builds done on M700's and they run just fine. If they didn't, I would hear about it and I'd be on this very forum getting run through a tree chipper. I'm not. So, I'm either one lucky SOB or you should consider the possibility that your bench rest mentality is about a decade too old.

Bolt action rifles are capable of running just fine with more than a pube for clearance between the receiver ID and the bolt circumference. Proven. Over and over and over and over again...

4. Bat Machine:

I don't care what BAT Machine does or doesn't do. They are not part of this discussion. I personally find it pretty shitty that you elect to bring any/all business names into this just so that you can be "right" about something.

That is just gay.


Bottom line. I stated publicly that I am done and now after being baited I explained why. 5 years. Half a decade of quietly tolerating this over and over and over again. Take a look at the responses both here and on LRI's FB page. I caught shit for lasting this long. So please don't even attempt to lecture me about loyalty.

Even a dog will eventually turn its back when treated like shit.


I have already solved this problem. LRI will be handling tooling demands very differently from here out.

Consider this the end of the discussion from my chair.

 

[HogsLife]

1. "Lemme tell ewe something ewe don't know about eeewwwweeee." "Have you read my book?" This Dr. Phil or Sniper's Hide?

Drug issues? Really? Drugs are not my problem. That should mean that every single business in the Pacific Northwest is on the verge of imploding. They aren't. Aerospace and medical manufacturing thrive there. Stop hiring out of the work release programs and the piss won't glow in the dark. Recognize and Invest in human capital and you'll attract talent. People generally don't leave a great job to go work a shitty one.

Nevermind that its not my problem to solve. Period. We live in a capitalist world driven by capitalists. If an owner cannot adapt to solve a problem, the appetite of the organism known as the business world deal with you accordingly.

Anyone who's ever inked their name on a dotted line, opened a storefront, or unlocks the door every morning understands this.

We, business owners, WE ALL have problems that confront us daily, hourly, by the minute. You trying to throw the sympathy card is about the lamest one I've heard yet. Now come get your hug or whatever.

2. Tooling:

You assume I use the same pilots as what's carried on the stores. I don't. Regardless. WHEN you order the pilot set WITH the tool, one might think that someone might take 120 seconds and see if they actually fit onto the end of the reamer. Take a poll. How many have called them when the shit is 3 months late and you get the tried and true "It's in final inspection being wrapped up." Well, what is final inspection? Inspection or the place you go to fire up the blunt?

Nevermind that it was sent back TWICE already because they either didn't fit, rattled on like a marble in a coffee can, or were a 1/3rd shorter than they were supposed to be.


3. I've been offering blueprinted OEM actions for a decade. The machine is new, not the process.

I use OEM FACTORY bolts for 99.9% of the builds done on M700's and they run just fine. If they didn't, I would hear about it and I'd be on this very forum getting run through a tree chipper. I'm not. So, I'm either one lucky SOB or you should consider the possibility that your bench rest mentality is about a decade too old.

Bolt action rifles are capable of running just fine with more than a pube for clearance between the receiver ID and the bolt circumference. Proven. Over and over and over and over again...

4. Bat Machine:

I don't care what BAT Machine does or doesn't do. They are not part of this discussion. I personally find it pretty shitty that you elect to bring any/all business names into this just so that you can be "right" about something.

That is just gay.


Bottom line. I stated publicly that I am done and now after being baited I explained why. 5 years. Half a decade of quietly tolerating this over and over and over again. Take a look at the responses both here and on LRI's FB page. I caught shit for lasting this long. So please don't even attempt to lecture me about loyalty.

Even a dog will eventually turn its back when treated like shit.


I have already solved this problem. LRI will be handling tooling demands very differently from here out.

Consider this the end of the discussion from my chair.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Chad
So your running factory bolts after truing and reboring the raceways which is why you post here. Do You post nonsense like that on Benchrest Central?
You take a sloppy fit and make it a sloppier fit?
Because sloppier now shoots better?

Bolt action rifles are capable of running just fine with more than a pube for clearance between the receiver ID and the bolt
cumference. Proven. Over and over and over and over again...

is hunting rifles what you build?


And BAT was brought up to show you that you guys will bash anyone. You need a link?

You forgot about UPS USPS FedEx and DHL do you need a link? Which carrier do You use so I can link you to all the bashing?

I send my chamber work to Jim Borden and if a pilot doesn't fit he grinds one that does.
He doesn't wait 14 months with a barrel in his lathe whining that some 17 year old screwed up the order.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Why does it matter that we haven’t gone to his shop? You admit his employees suck? We already know this, as that’s what these threads are about. Frankly it wouldn't matter nearly so much if they actually fixed their mistakes without hitting you in the pocket book first. Have you seen all the other threads about PtG? I recall one that ran for years, and was dozens and dozens of pages long. Unmatched in my view. Dave is the head of the ship, ultimate he is responsible. I get it though, you two are buddies, and you need to defend him.

I don't need to defend anyone. If you don't like Pacific Tool don't buy anything from him. If you don't like BAT actions don't buy one.
If you don't like FedEx ups USPS or DHL don't use them.
If you don't like Sierra Berger hornady Speer CCI federal Remington or whoever else is on your list don't buy from them.
You guys come on a shooting forum and all you want to do is trash a vendor because his summer help screwed up your order and you think he did it to you because he needs the grief.

 

[Lynn Jr]

BAT Machine TR Action

So... any takers? What do y'all think? http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-at-shot-show/ The trigger hanger is a nice touch so you don't have to pull the action in the field to address a trigger issue.

www.snipershide.com

For those wanting to bash BAT actions just follow the link.

 

[Supersubes]

Lynn, that’s some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read on the hide.


Edit: Lay off the booze.

 

[HogsLife]

Chad
So your running factory bolts after truing and reboring the raceways which is why you post here. Do You post nonsense like that on Benchrest Central?
You take a sloppy fit and make it a sloppier fit?
Because sloppier now shoots better?

Bolt action rifles are capable of running just fine with more than a pube for clearance between the receiver ID and the bolt
cumference. Proven. Over and over and over and over again...

is hunting rifles what you build?


And BAT was brought up to show you that you guys will bash anyone. You need a link?

You forgot about UPS USPS FedEx and DHL do you need a link? Which carrier do You use so I can link you to all the bashing?

I send my chamber work to Jim Borden and if a pilot doesn't fit he grinds one that does.
He doesn't wait 14 months with a barrel in his lathe whining that some 17 year old screwed up the order.

Yet I have never heard and single solitary complaint about one of Chads rifles. Sloppy? Another word I’ve never heard associated with a LRI Build.

Don’t like what you’re seeing here? This is what makes this forum what it is. People posting their individual experiences with different vendors, products, rifles, ammo, experience etc etc etc.

The only one responsible for tanking a companies reputation is the man running that company. He is ultimately responsible for all of it. Don’t like getting bad reviews? Fix your shit. Don’t like people trashing your CS reputation? Fix your shit. It is obviously not something new. Are they special? Nope. They’re just like any other company. You get what you give. You wanna give shit your gonna get shit. If it’s gonna take you 12 months and 3 tries to get a reamer right no problem. Just make sure you explain that to your customer prior to taking their money. Don’t advertise 8 weeks and then proceed to jack your customer around for the next year. And when you do, don’t surprised when you find unhappy customers posting their experience in an open forum such as this one.

Be honest in your abilities and let the chips fall where they may. See how many customers continue to seek out your services and purchase your products.

You don’t like what your reading? Log off and bounce your ass back to Benchrest Central.....

 

[BigTex]

I have never received a bad reamer from Dave Kiff and I will leave anything from Chad alone on this website.
His reamers have produced world records from my guns and the only screwups I have seen were from gunsmiths.
I was sent the wrong extractors from PT&G and they got replaced but that had nothing to do with some vast conspiracy.
For those that feel slighted simply move on and vote with your feet and money.
Order up a Hugh Hendrickson reamer and let me know how long it takes.

Glad to see that Daddy's world record has somehow made it's way into this conversation.