Painted M40's

[Stranded Yank]

Good day,

Another question for the experts regarding the M40 and the practice of painting the stock to waterproof it...

Here are a couple of references... all from Peter R. Senich - The One-Round War: USMC Scout-Snipers In Vietnam-Kindle Edition.

1. There is a caption for a photo of Chuck Mawhinney with his rifle... quote - <span style="font-style: italic">'The rifle stock was painted green when the weapon was issued'</span>

2. Immediately following this quote the caption goes onto say this - quote - <span style="font-style: italic">'Early efforts to waterproof sniper stocks in Vietnam included "sealing measures" involving the use of paint. USMC ordnance papers indicate gray or green were "acceptable colors"'</span>

3. in chapter 14 - 'A System In Transition' - there are many mentions of "<span style="font-style: italic">stock waterproofing to prevent warping</span>"...

There is this - "<span style="font-style: italic">Adopt the use of a waterproof finish such as hard polyurethane varnish, then paint the stocks a dull-grey or non-gloss dark green to eliminate reflection</span>"...

and there is this - "<span style="font-style: italic">Impregnating wooden stocks with epoxy served as an effective means of waterproofing the stock and eliminating warpage. Although linseed oil, in various forms and mixtures, was employed for waterproofing sniper rifle stocks in Vietnam, according to a III MAF field report, "the use of linseed oil is not considered an adequate preventative measure.</span>"...

and this quote would seem to indicate that painting/waterproofing had become standard procedure - "<span style="font-style: italic">Appropriate instructions pertaining to glass-bedding and waterproofing of stocks were provided to the CG, III MAF in a CMC letter (8 May 1968), and to the field units in a bulletin dated 16 December 1968. In response to the recommendation that sniper rifle stocks be glass-bedded and waterproofed prior to shipment to Southeast Asia, the MTU, Quantico, Virginia, was tasked (6 June 1969) with "waterproofing and glass-bedding all Marine Corps sniper rifle stocks that are presently held in the supply centers."</span>

With all this documentation I have yet to see a photo of a painted M40... I know many of the Vietnam photos are black&white... but still the grain of the timber is quite visible in the photos... so...

Can anyone here provide a color photo showing a painted M40?

Can anyone here detail the procedure of the painting/waterproofing?

There are numerous mentions of 'epoxy impregnation'... then there is the mention of a base of poly-urethane varnish with a top-coat of paint... was the finish quite thin and semi-transparent which is why the grain of the timber could be visible or was it a relatively thick, smooth finish... any information would be appreciated.

The reason I am inquiring is that I have an old BDL stock that I would like to paint and fit to represent a fielded M40, instead of a factory fresh M40.

I have also read numerous biographies including J.T. Ward and Ed Kugler... and I have yet to find a mention of a painted M40.

Also were scout-snipers allowed to camo-paint their M40's similar to camo seen on later M40-series?

Again many thanks to everyone that will contribute and provide any information.

 

[Rainier42]

Re: Painted M40's

Haven't seen any photos either of painted stocks but will check around with some of my builder friends who might know.

 

[Stranded Yank]

Re: Painted M40's

@Rainier42,

Thanks... I have spent hours trolling the internet look at old photos and reading everything I can... nothing yet... I hoping that someone here will know someone or from personal experience supply some information.

 

[Stranded Yank]

Re: Painted M40's

I found these two color photos of Chuck Mawhinney...

These photos are from Chuck's website... looking at these... the stock does lool like it could be painted... but I cannot tell from this small size... does anyone have larger photos?

Thanks!

 

[Stranded Yank]

Re: Painted M40's

I searched around on Chuck's website and found larger files of the small photos above... please note these photos are courtesy of Chuck Mawhinney... all credit given...

in the above photo the stock does not look as if it was painted... but in the photo below... I would say the stock is definitely painted...

I still would like to hear more about the painting...

 

[totenkopf]

Re: Painted M40's

Back in the 1990s, I spent lots of time at the Naval Weapons Station Crane working on sniper rifle and bullet projects, sometimes I was able to go into the "bowels" of the small arms building and look around. I found crates of Unertl, Kollmorgen, Weaver and Redfield scopes, mounts and stocks. In one crate there were a number of M40 stocks, some WERE painted green. In hindsight, I wish I had asked for one...at that time no one cared.

 

[Badgerord]

Re: Painted M40's

Here is a pic of Chuck at Liberty bridge with a Camo M40

I have talked with Chuck and Mark (the guy that took the pic) about the paint job.

Chuck said this was not a rifle he painted, but he did have one he painted green.

Marty
Badger Ordnance

 

[mjh30]

Re: Painted M40's

Those photogrpaphs gentlemen are real gems.

 

[Stranded Yank]

Re: Painted M40's

@Marty,

That is just what I am looking for... thanks much!

@totenkopf,

One has to wonder if there is still buried away in some warehouse or shed, crates of old parts and pieces... one can only wish... hindsight is a wonderful thing... thanks!

I hope that someone is making a huge effort to contact and hear the stories of these great men... not just Chuck, Carlos, J.T. Ward... but each of the scout-snipers that served in SEA... whatever their tally.. their stories are history and important to record before they pass onto happy hunting grounds. If I still lived in the USA, I would make it my mission to do this and I am sure that someone is doing just that.

I do not believe that the Scout-Sniper was any more important or special than every other serviceman or women... but from my experience Scout-Snipers have a much larger and clearer picture of the conflict as they were not as static as infantry and the Scout-Sniper was trained to be very observant and keep meticulous records of what he saw and experienced... so their story is often broader and deeper than the average grunt stuck in a fox hole... the Scout-Sniper had a birds-eye view of the battleground, so to speak.

There has been a multitude of information compiled on the 'factory specs' of the M40... I am looking more information on what the M40 became after a year or two in the field... how the USMC modified the M40 to keep it mission ready... what latitude the Scout-Sniper had to make his rifle his own to ensure it was combat-ready, trustworthy and unique.

Please keep the information and photos coming... I am especially interesting to find out what information was given to the MTU, RTE and armorers when it became standard practice to waterproof and paint the M40... I am sure there was some official procedure or method.

Again many thanks to all for sharing!

 

[Jaeger308]

Re: Painted M40's

A few years back an old M40 was found at the PWS in Quantico, back checking the serial number it was discovered to be Chuck’s rifle (or at least one of them). They cleaned it up and it now hangs in the USMC museum. It was given a semi-gloss finish on the wood stock or so it looks to me when I saw it last.

 

[mjh30]

Re: Painted M40's

I think Chucks rifle was still being used as an A1 somewhere before they brought it back and refurbished it, before placing in in the National Museum of the Marine Corps.

 

[Badgerord]

The disappointing thing about Chucks rifle in the Marine museum is it has an M40A1 barrel, not the correct contour barrel.

In time this will become a "Known correct" rifle and cause a lot of disinformation.

Marty
Badger Ordnance

 

[Stranded Yank]

@et al,

I am correct in saying that the scope on Chuck's rifle in the photo is a 2nd generation scope in black... in all the photos that I can find... the scope does not have the characteristic green hue of the 1st generation... thanks!

 

[Badgerord]

I'm pretty sure there were no black scopes in country when that pic was taken, Chuck entered 1/5 snipers in late June 68 and left the Snipers in approx. Oct 69 (and went to a Helio unit, Mag 11 in DaNang to be security, what a wast of talent) so the pic in post #5 was taken before Oct 69.

I will call Chuck and see if he remembers when the pic was taken.

Also, if you look really close the Scope does not look black like the scope base or the rubber inner tube scope cover.

A discussion with Mark tonight revealed that he never saw a black Redfield in his tours from 68 into 70

Marty
Badger Ordnance

Talked with Chuck again, no black scopes.

 

[Stranded Yank]

Marty,

Many thanks!

That is very interesting... the scope in post #7 with the photo of the camo'ed M40 is definitely a green scope... looking not unlike the color of the original green Redfield's you find today... but the scope on Chuck's rifle is a different color... I agree that it is a green, but a darker green... I am comparing the color of the scope with the grenades in the first photo of post #5... and then compare the scope to the colors of the pants in the second photo in the post #5... so would this scope have been not as faded and closer to the color of a newly issued scope... please... I am not questioning you, Chuck, or Mark... rather just observing and asking questions to find out more...

Can you source any more photos of Chuck's or anyone else's M40 while in the field... many thanks!

This kinda messes up my plans to build an 'In-Field' M40 with a black 2nd generation Redfield Accu-Range... but I am very keen to learn about the obvious differences in colors of the two scopes in the above photos...

Here is a screenshot I took from the documentary of Chuck... to me this looks like a 2nd-gen Redfield... can someone confirm or deny my assumption...

Also note that this rifle is painted a dark gray as well...

Thanks!

 

[mjh30]

Stranded Yank, that's a green accurange, power ring is the giveaway. I have yet to find any pictures or documentation of what we would call a second gen scope on a M40 or any other Remington 700 Sniper rifle in Vietnam. Not to say there wasn't but I have yet to find it. As for the color, the sun blanched the anodizing to different tones. As for Chucks museum piece they didn't even get the safety right.

 

[mjh30]

Stranded Yank, I have an original satin anodized scope, figured I would do the same thing someday but never got around to it. I suppose the scope could go on a M40A1, but that rifle is synonymous with the Unertl.

 

[Rainier42]

Satin black scopes were introduced after '69 I believe. Upgrades to the scopes were more than just the color. They also were sealed slightly better to resist the fogging that was occurring with the original green scopes.

Also, I don't believe the rifle in the photo is painted ... if you look at the rear of the stock, it is a dirty brown ... kinda looks like the stock on my M1 Garand.

 

[Badgerord]

It is likely that only the first contract of 700 rifles are green, there is no documentation to validate greenies on any subsequent contracts.

Based on data I have from Crane there were Satin blacks, there were glossy's there were even widefield's in gloss. I have a greenie with a target dot.

Yank,
Remember, the first 40's were issued in 67, that pic was 68 or 69, the green would be as green as it was going to get meaning as dark as it would ever be. Also you need to keep in mind these are Kodak instamatic photos taken 40 + years ago, developed, kicked around for 40 years, scanned, blown up and in some cases maybe even touched up.
Not to mention, that when you surround something colored by black it will darken the colored item. A principle of divisionism, the adjoining colors will effect the hue, color and contrast of the other colors it adjoins.

Rainier,
I think the stock is painted, it shows no grain, but then again, it might be really dirty.

Marty
Badger Ordnance