Patches clean but bore still smooth black

Dillon S

Private
Minuteman
Jan 3, 2023
3
0
Wisconsin
Hello I have a couple of bolt actions that are seeming to be clean but when I look with the bore cam I am seeing a smooth black coat. I actually am seeing this in 2 right now, both are Remingtons, one is a model 710 .270 and the other a .300 rum in model CDL. I have done a multi stage cleaning process using all bore tech cleaners, jags, patches, nylon brushes etc.. I thought maybe at first I had let something dry but they advertise all of the products able to sit and I haven’t been mixing or anything like that, just one at a time. Non of the multiple others have this black coating that will not budge like these 2. Wondering if it is a heat/season type deal or if something had been done previously that made this coating? Not sure it doesn’t seem to be carbon and can’t imagine it could be from any products or anything I did.
 

Attachments

  • 74232A8B-3548-46F0-A235-21C2E882E303.jpeg
    74232A8B-3548-46F0-A235-21C2E882E303.jpeg
    383.5 KB · Views: 328
  • FCE5DADC-3FB1-40EA-BD62-D13B52C6B550.jpeg
    FCE5DADC-3FB1-40EA-BD62-D13B52C6B550.jpeg
    424.5 KB · Views: 323
It’s just leftover hard carbon, completely normal. If you really want it gone, you’ll need to probably soak the bores in something that helps break it down and then scrub, or scrub with some abrasive cleaners.
 
Okay I had let it sit for the night with several cleaners, one being bore tech carbon remover C4 and did a bit of nylon brushing.. still nothin.. so if it is carbon I guess it’s incredibly stubborn?
 
Okay I had let it sit for the night with several cleaners, one being bore tech carbon remover C4 and did a bit of nylon brushing.. still nothin.. so if it is carbon I guess it’s incredibly stubborn?
not all nylon brushes are equal, and they’re always going to be more difficult to clean with than a quality bronze brush. But, some people like to avoid bronze brushes.

Iosso nylon brushes are great quality, and when used with a good cleaning regimen, should get all the carbon out. But at the end of the day this boils down to time or agitation. You either let a good cleaner like Bore tech c4 really soak in for a while, or you use an abrasive.
 
I’ve been reading about using CLR to remove carbon. Apparently it does a great job and will not harm barrel steel. It will mess up blueing, so you have to be careful. I have not tried it myself, but I’m considering tying it on a Blaser R93 270 barrel that looks like yours.

EDIT 10/14- I’ve done a bit of reading and came to the conclusion that it’s highly likely CLR will damage a bore. I know people have supposedly used it without damage, but why chance it, especially with a R93 barrel. Sticking to Bore Tech Eliminator and C4 for normal cleaning, Slip2000EWL for lube, and Kroil and JB bore compound for stubborn stuff.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: DeathBeforeDismount
I’ve been reading about using CLR to remove carbon. Apparently it does a great job and will not harm barrel steel. It will mess up blueing, so you have to be careful. I have not tried it myself, but I’m considering tying it on a Blaser R93 270 barrel that looks like yours.

I've not had it harm my stainless barrels, but I also don't let it sit in there for hours or overnight. I definitely wouldn't use it on a non stainless barrel but if you do have stainless I wouldn't go overboard with it. It's not yet determined that clr won't hurt stainless if it sits long enough and several claim that it will pit stainless if you leave it in there too long. Just fyi
 
Or you could try Non embedding JB bore paste.safe and will do the job.
As long as you don't have a build up or copper fouling there really isn't a need to obsess over a bright shine... you're likely to do more harm than good in the long run chasing it.
 
I’ve been reading about using CLR to remove carbon. Apparently it does a great job and will not harm barrel steel. It will mess up blueing, so you have to be careful. I have not tried it myself, but I’m considering tying it on a Blaser R93 270 barrel that looks like yours.
CLR fucks up steel it will pit it up fast. You can use it for very short periods but you MUST remove it completely or it will
eat the steel. I would never use it on carbon steel barrels.
 
Hello I have a couple of bolt actions that are seeming to be clean but when I look with the bore cam I am seeing a smooth black coat. I actually am seeing this in 2 right now, both are Remingtons, one is a model 710 .270 and the other a .300 rum in model CDL. I have done a multi stage cleaning process using all bore tech cleaners, jags, patches, nylon brushes etc.. I thought maybe at first I had let something dry but they advertise all of the products able to sit and I haven’t been mixing or anything like that, just one at a time. Non of the multiple others have this black coating that will not budge like these 2. Wondering if it is a heat/season type deal or if something had been done previously that made this coating? Not sure it doesn’t seem to be carbon and can’t imagine it could be from any products or anything I did.

Use a bronze brush and Free All penetrating oil, it will remove a good portion of the hard carbon. It will NOT make the
barrel look BRAND NEW but will remove enough to keep the the carbon from becoming excessive.

There is no need to go to abrasives because you will never win the battle, carbon always wins. The
thing to do is simply dont let the carbon buildup become excessive and if the rifle shows no accuracy issues
you are good.


And your barrel dont look that carbon fouled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 22lfb and Baron23
I will freely admit that I am no expert on the chemistry of steel/metallurgy and chemicals that can react with same.

That said, I typically clean bores with a good quality oil, only occasionally using a bore cleaner, Hoppes which I have been using since 1964. (I know, I know, they changed the formula but it still does what I need it to do).

I use patches and occasionally a nylon brush. Accuracy has not noticeably degraded in any of our firearms cleaned in this manner until the barrels are plainly worn out. Even with this handgun that has far more 7mmTCU rounds fired in it than any firearm deserves to have. (probably north of 10,000, all bullets jacketed, in my case, 150 grain Sierra Matchkings)

So, my point, following my experience and @Lowlight ’s advice, I clean only when necessary and keep it at a bare minimum. When the patches get to a light grey, I’m done.

As said, I purchased this XP-100 from a good friend who built it for open sight shooting, found it a bit muzzle light, added 5 oz of lead in the fore end, mounted a 7X Burris target handgun scope and it has shot more perfect scores 40x40’s and 60x60’s than all of our other handguns combined. And it still wears the same barrel it was built with 20 years ago. And it still puts three shots into an inch at 200 meters, shooting creedmoor.
1FF8F9CF-F2D8-4922-8FD0-C8096446E679.jpeg
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: BurtG and perttime
Hello I have a couple of bolt actions that are seeming to be clean but when I look with the bore cam I am seeing a smooth black coat. I actually am seeing this in 2 right now, both are Remingtons, one is a model 710 .270 and the other a .300 rum in model CDL. I have done a multi stage cleaning process using all bore tech cleaners, jags, patches, nylon brushes etc.. I thought maybe at first I had let something dry but they advertise all of the products able to sit and I haven’t been mixing or anything like that, just one at a time. Non of the multiple others have this black coating that will not budge like these 2. Wondering if it is a heat/season type deal or if something had been done previously that made this coating? Not sure it doesn’t seem to be carbon and can’t imagine it could be from any products or anything I did.
Personally, I don't see a problem in those pics.

Does it still shoot as well as ever? If so, then march out and enjoy it.
 
It’s carbon and you will need to used an abrasive like Iosso or JBs bore past (not the bore bright) to get it all out. But the 710 and CDL are factory rifles with generous factory chambers and you don’t need to scrub all the carbon out to avoid pressure issues. you can go a long time with just normal cleaning before the carbon causes any issues.
however, shooters with custom barrels with tight necks generally clean the carbon out after every range session to avoid the carbon buildup just ahead of the neck in the chamber which leads to higher pressures and precision loss.
 
It’s carbon and you will need to used an abrasive like Iosso or JBs bore past (not the bore bright) to get it all out. But the 710 and CDL are factory rifles with generous factory chambers and you don’t need to scrub all the carbon out to avoid pressure issues. you can go a long time with just normal cleaning before the carbon causes any issues.
however, shooters with custom barrels with tight necks generally clean the carbon out after every range session to avoid the carbon buildup just ahead of the neck in the chamber which leads to higher pressures and precision loss.
Pressure issues? I don’t see mention of a carbon ring (did I miss it?)

And personally I would not go full retard with abrasives to get what looks like just a thin wash of carbon.

To me, that barrel looks pretty good but the open question to the OP stands unanswered….does it still shoot good as it did before?
 
Pressure issues? I don’t see mention of a carbon ring (did I miss it?)

And personally I would not go full retard with abrasives to get what looks like just a thin wash of carbon.

To me, that barrel looks pretty good but the open question to the OP stands unanswered….does it still shoot good as it did before?
did you read the post? I said “the 710 and CDL are factory rifles with generous factory chambers and you don’t need to scrub all the carbon out to avoid pressure issues. you can go a long time with just normal cleaning before the carbon causes any issues.”
 
did you read the post? I said “the 710 and CDL are factory rifles with generous factory chambers and you don’t need to scrub all the carbon out to avoid pressure issues. you can go a long time with just normal cleaning before the carbon causes any issues.”
Ah, missed that part.
 
There's no solvent that will remove that carbon. Jb bore cleaner will remove it or a bronze brush but the bronze brush will take a lot of work. A nylon brush is pretty much useless, run a bronze one behind it and you will turn up lots of black
 
CLR fucks up steel it will pit it up fast. You can use it for very short periods but you MUST remove it completely or it will
eat the steel. I would never use it on carbon steel barrels.

So tested clr the last two years with 3 different stainless barrels and now use it in all my stainless barrels.

I left clr in the barrel for 24 hours then 72 hours then a week. Filled completely full of clr.... Zero pitting or etching. Quick rinse after each drain with wipe out and a few passes with vfg pellets and barrels still look great when I bore scope them.....
 
So tested clr the last two years with 3 different stainless barrels and now use it in all my stainless barrels.

I left clr in the barrel for 24 hours then 72 hours then a week. Filled completely full of clr.... Zero pitting or etching. Quick rinse after each drain with wipe out and a few passes with vfg pellets and barrels still look great when I bore scope them.....

CLR works incredibly well to loosen up stubborn stuff in a barrel.

However, you must ensure that nothing but your stainless barrel comes in contact with it. Your action, any coatings, etc. It's nasty stuff that will eat just about anything.

Ask me how I know...
 
CLR works incredibly well to loosen up stubborn stuff in a barrel.

However, you must ensure that nothing but your stainless barrel comes in contact with it. Your action, any coatings, etc. It's nasty stuff that will eat just about anything.

Ask me how I know...

I pull my barrels when I clean but yes def don't want to get it on other things.

That's interesting I also soaked some of my cerakoted cans and it didn't touch the cerakote.
 
CLR fucks up steel it will pit it up fast. You can use it for very short periods but you MUST remove it completely or it will
eat the steel. I would never use it on carbon steel barrels.

So tested clr the last two years with 3 different stainless barrels and now use it in all my stainless barrels.

I left clr in the barrel for 24 hours then 72 hours then a week. Filled completely full of clr.... Zero pitting or etching. Quick rinse after each drain with wipe out and a few passes with vfg pellets and barrels still look great when I bore scope them.....
 
So tested clr the last two years with 3 different stainless barrels and now use it in all my stainless barrels.

I left clr in the barrel for 24 hours then 72 hours then a week. Filled completely full of clr.... Zero pitting or etching. Quick rinse after each drain with wipe out and a few passes with vfg pellets and barrels still look great when I bore scope them.....
Sweet story bro .

 
Heh.

me, I just plug one into the barrel with a silicone plug… And then I fill the barrel with C4, or eliminator… depending on what I’m trying to remove.

then I let it sit for a day and come back and deal with it later.

Then, after it’s all cleaned out, I go to the range and get it dirty again because it shoots better when slightly fouled.
 
Those barrels are nice and clean. A clean barrel will look like it has a black coating. It's shadow/trick of light thing. I have a few premium blanks that look dark as night in the borescope, but are pristine. I had a barrel I thought had "hard carbon" in it. I posted pics to accurateshooter.com. All those know it alls were telling me hard carbon. I'm pretty sure I roached that barrel trying to clean shadows out of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baron23 and KYAggie

Look at post #35, apparently CLR is safe in stainless barrels, just not mild steel. It can also mess up finishes.
 
Shot like complete shit for 40 rounds afterwards.

Probably needed a certain amount of copper to shoot well. I’ve experienced the same starting about 22 years ago with a Ruger 77. Too clean is actually a thing sometimes. It changed the way I clean. I rarely remove the copper unless accuracy degrades. I do clean the carbon out with C4, but I leave the copper.
 
Probably needed a certain amount of copper to shoot well. I’ve experienced the same starting about 22 years ago with a Ruger 77. Too clean is actually a thing sometimes. It changed the way I clean. I rarely remove the copper unless accuracy degrades. I do clean the carbon out with C4, but I leave the copper.

Yep I’m a good ole Hoppes guy until fouling affects accuracy and then I do the JB Bore paste and have to break it in again lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KYAggie
Stop trying so hard. It doesn't need to be a sterile surface. Get copper out when it degrades accuracy. Other than that you are only wasting your time/money. With your level of OCD your reloading techniques must be world class!
^^^ this.

Or wrap 320 grit emery around a jag and run up and down the barrel until it shines.

Sirhr

(PS… don’t do that. It is satire. Seriously. )
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 308pirate
I would just add that if you hadn't had the bore cam you never would've know there was an issue, because there's isn't one. My point is this: bore cams have a way of birthing issues, not necessarily identifying issues. Guys (myself included) get themselves a shiny new bore cam and all of a sudden the rifle they've been shooting for many years with no issues at all has a growth in the bore that is going to suck the life out of the gun and humanity alike. Do yourself a favor, use the bore cam to identify legitimate problems that arise, use it for periodic checks, use it when you need it but don't get down in the weeds on what your seeing because I can just about guarantee it's not a big deal. I'm not giving you a hard time, just the benefit of my own lessons learned.
 
Waste of time ? That's the way it is supposed to look . Do you have shit stains in your underwear because getting your anal dot clean is a waste of time ?

Only accurate rifles are interesting. This is a .85-1.00 MOA over 30 shots hunting rifle. When the bore is cleaned to the steel, it shoots like a blunder buss.
 
Only accurate rifles are interesting. This is a .85-1.00 MOA over 30 shots hunting rifle. When the bore is cleaned to the steel, it shoots like a blunder buss.
Why do you clean it back to bare steel then ? How do you know when to clean it ? I guess with a 1 MOA rifle it really does not matter ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: HOOFER
Ok, let’s not look at bore cam pics. Shoot that bitch and show me a 5 shot group. Does it open up when dirty or not? Dirty is good! Dirty jeans, dirty trucks, and especially dirty girls! Dirty rifles are just a continuation of dirty.

I clean my shit every 400 rnds whether it needs it or not. And when I do….the first 20 down the pipe suck! Needs a little copper fouling and a little carbon to make it feel right. Quit stressing and shoot!
 
I’ve been reading about using CLR to remove carbon. Apparently it does a great job and will not harm barrel steel. It will mess up blueing, so you have to be careful. I have not tried it myself, but I’m considering tying it on a Blaser R93 270 barrel that looks like yours.

It should not harm STAINLESS STEEL. If you use CLR on a carbon steel barrel (PLENTY of guns made with carbon steel barrels out there!) you will fuck it right up. The CLR will, in effect, pull the carbon out of the alloy, leaving with a barrel that's all pitted to hell. If the barrel is actually blued, it's carbon steel of some flavor (blueing is a controlled form of rust, basically - so stainless can't be blued).

Just being emphatic so someone doesn't read that and make an irreversible error!
 
  • Like
Reactions: KYAggie