Hello I have a couple of bolt actions that are seeming to be clean but when I look with the bore cam I am seeing a smooth black coat. I actually am seeing this in 2 right now, both are Remingtons, one is a model 710 .270 and the other a .300 rum in model CDL. I have done a multi stage cleaning process using all bore tech cleaners, jags, patches, nylon brushes etc.. I thought maybe at first I had let something dry but they advertise all of the products able to sit and I haven’t been mixing or anything like that, just one at a time. Non of the multiple others have this black coating that will not budge like these 2. Wondering if it is a heat/season type deal or if something had been done previously that made this coating? Not sure it doesn’t seem to be carbon and can’t imagine it could be from any products or anything I did.
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Patches clean but bore still smooth black
- Thread starter Dillon S
- Start date
not all nylon brushes are equal, and they’re always going to be more difficult to clean with than a quality bronze brush. But, some people like to avoid bronze brushes.
Iosso nylon brushes are great quality, and when used with a good cleaning regimen, should get all the carbon out. But at the end of the day this boils down to time or agitation. You either let a good cleaner like Bore tech c4 really soak in for a while, or you use an abrasive.
I’ve been reading about using CLR to remove carbon. Apparently it does a great job and will not harm barrel steel. It will mess up blueing, so you have to be careful. I have not tried it myself, but I’m considering tying it on a Blaser R93 270 barrel that looks like yours.
EDIT 10/14- I’ve done a bit of reading and came to the conclusion that it’s highly likely CLR will damage a bore. I know people have supposedly used it without damage, but why chance it, especially with a R93 barrel. Sticking to Bore Tech Eliminator and C4 for normal cleaning, Slip2000EWL for lube, and Kroil and JB bore compound for stubborn stuff.
EDIT 10/14- I’ve done a bit of reading and came to the conclusion that it’s highly likely CLR will damage a bore. I know people have supposedly used it without damage, but why chance it, especially with a R93 barrel. Sticking to Bore Tech Eliminator and C4 for normal cleaning, Slip2000EWL for lube, and Kroil and JB bore compound for stubborn stuff.
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I've not had it harm my stainless barrels, but I also don't let it sit in there for hours or overnight. I definitely wouldn't use it on a non stainless barrel but if you do have stainless I wouldn't go overboard with it. It's not yet determined that clr won't hurt stainless if it sits long enough and several claim that it will pit stainless if you leave it in there too long. Just fyi
Or you could try Non embedding JB bore paste.safe and will do the job.
As long as you don't have a build up or copper fouling there really isn't a need to obsess over a bright shine... you're likely to do more harm than good in the long run chasing it.
As long as you don't have a build up or copper fouling there really isn't a need to obsess over a bright shine... you're likely to do more harm than good in the long run chasing it.
CLR fucks up steel it will pit it up fast. You can use it for very short periods but you MUST remove it completely or it will
eat the steel. I would never use it on carbon steel barrels.
How many shots since this was last cleaned? You don't shoot Moly Coated bullets do you?
Use a bronze brush and Free All penetrating oil, it will remove a good portion of the hard carbon. It will NOT make the
barrel look BRAND NEW but will remove enough to keep the the carbon from becoming excessive.
There is no need to go to abrasives because you will never win the battle, carbon always wins. The
thing to do is simply dont let the carbon buildup become excessive and if the rifle shows no accuracy issues
you are good.
And your barrel dont look that carbon fouled.
I will freely admit that I am no expert on the chemistry of steel/metallurgy and chemicals that can react with same.
That said, I typically clean bores with a good quality oil, only occasionally using a bore cleaner, Hoppes which I have been using since 1964. (I know, I know, they changed the formula but it still does what I need it to do).
I use patches and occasionally a nylon brush. Accuracy has not noticeably degraded in any of our firearms cleaned in this manner until the barrels are plainly worn out. Even with this handgun that has far more 7mmTCU rounds fired in it than any firearm deserves to have. (probably north of 10,000, all bullets jacketed, in my case, 150 grain Sierra Matchkings)
So, my point, following my experience and @Lowlight ’s advice, I clean only when necessary and keep it at a bare minimum. When the patches get to a light grey, I’m done.
As said, I purchased this XP-100 from a good friend who built it for open sight shooting, found it a bit muzzle light, added 5 oz of lead in the fore end, mounted a 7X Burris target handgun scope and it has shot more perfect scores 40x40’s and 60x60’s than all of our other handguns combined. And it still wears the same barrel it was built with 20 years ago. And it still puts three shots into an inch at 200 meters, shooting creedmoor.
That said, I typically clean bores with a good quality oil, only occasionally using a bore cleaner, Hoppes which I have been using since 1964. (I know, I know, they changed the formula but it still does what I need it to do).
I use patches and occasionally a nylon brush. Accuracy has not noticeably degraded in any of our firearms cleaned in this manner until the barrels are plainly worn out. Even with this handgun that has far more 7mmTCU rounds fired in it than any firearm deserves to have. (probably north of 10,000, all bullets jacketed, in my case, 150 grain Sierra Matchkings)
So, my point, following my experience and @Lowlight ’s advice, I clean only when necessary and keep it at a bare minimum. When the patches get to a light grey, I’m done.
As said, I purchased this XP-100 from a good friend who built it for open sight shooting, found it a bit muzzle light, added 5 oz of lead in the fore end, mounted a 7X Burris target handgun scope and it has shot more perfect scores 40x40’s and 60x60’s than all of our other handguns combined. And it still wears the same barrel it was built with 20 years ago. And it still puts three shots into an inch at 200 meters, shooting creedmoor.
Personally, I don't see a problem in those pics.
Does it still shoot as well as ever? If so, then march out and enjoy it.
It’s carbon and you will need to used an abrasive like Iosso or JBs bore past (not the bore bright) to get it all out. But the 710 and CDL are factory rifles with generous factory chambers and you don’t need to scrub all the carbon out to avoid pressure issues. you can go a long time with just normal cleaning before the carbon causes any issues.
however, shooters with custom barrels with tight necks generally clean the carbon out after every range session to avoid the carbon buildup just ahead of the neck in the chamber which leads to higher pressures and precision loss.
however, shooters with custom barrels with tight necks generally clean the carbon out after every range session to avoid the carbon buildup just ahead of the neck in the chamber which leads to higher pressures and precision loss.
Stop trying so hard. It doesn't need to be a sterile surface. Get copper out when it degrades accuracy. Other than that you are only wasting your time/money. With your level of OCD your reloading techniques must be world class!
Pressure issues? I don’t see mention of a carbon ring (did I miss it?)
And personally I would not go full retard with abrasives to get what looks like just a thin wash of carbon.
To me, that barrel looks pretty good but the open question to the OP stands unanswered….does it still shoot good as it did before?
did you read the post? I said “the 710 and CDL are factory rifles with generous factory chambers and you don’t need to scrub all the carbon out to avoid pressure issues. you can go a long time with just normal cleaning before the carbon causes any issues.”
There's no solvent that will remove that carbon. Jb bore cleaner will remove it or a bronze brush but the bronze brush will take a lot of work. A nylon brush is pretty much useless, run a bronze one behind it and you will turn up lots of black
So tested clr the last two years with 3 different stainless barrels and now use it in all my stainless barrels.
I left clr in the barrel for 24 hours then 72 hours then a week. Filled completely full of clr.... Zero pitting or etching. Quick rinse after each drain with wipe out and a few passes with vfg pellets and barrels still look great when I bore scope them.....
The real question is: does the rifle still shoot great? And, are you having any pressure issues?
If the answer to both of those question is no, then there's no need to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
If the answer to both of those question is no, then there's no need to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
CLR works incredibly well to loosen up stubborn stuff in a barrel.
However, you must ensure that nothing but your stainless barrel comes in contact with it. Your action, any coatings, etc. It's nasty stuff that will eat just about anything.
Ask me how I know...
I pull my barrels when I clean but yes def don't want to get it on other things.
That's interesting I also soaked some of my cerakoted cans and it didn't touch the cerakote.
Heh.
me, I just plug one into the barrel with a silicone plug… And then I fill the barrel with C4, or eliminator… depending on what I’m trying to remove.
then I let it sit for a day and come back and deal with it later.
Then, after it’s all cleaned out, I go to the range and get it dirty again because it shoots better when slightly fouled.
me, I just plug one into the barrel with a silicone plug… And then I fill the barrel with C4, or eliminator… depending on what I’m trying to remove.
then I let it sit for a day and come back and deal with it later.
Then, after it’s all cleaned out, I go to the range and get it dirty again because it shoots better when slightly fouled.
Those barrels are nice and clean. A clean barrel will look like it has a black coating. It's shadow/trick of light thing. I have a few premium blanks that look dark as night in the borescope, but are pristine. I had a barrel I thought had "hard carbon" in it. I posted pics to accurateshooter.com. All those know it alls were telling me hard carbon. I'm pretty sure I roached that barrel trying to clean shadows out of it.
CLR and its Use in Rifle Maintenance
CLR, for its use in carbon removal and cleaning barrels, brakes and suppressors, has been a hot topic lately so I think it deserves its own thread. Feel free to post good or bad experiences with CLR. I have an armor black radial port brake off a Fierce Rival, I used to own, soaking in CLR...
www.longrangeonly.com
Look at post #35, apparently CLR is safe in stainless barrels, just not mild steel. It can also mess up finishes.
ThorroClean and a nylon brush will get that out and make the bore nice and shiny if that’s what you’d like to see with your bore scope.
Key word there. I'm not trusting shithouse chemists on this
In practical application clr is fine
Just don’t forget about it, clean it up in an hour and your barrel will be clean and none the wiser.
Just don’t forget about it, clean it up in an hour and your barrel will be clean and none the wiser.
Here’s a JB Bore paste clean bore. Shot like complete shit for 40 rounds afterwards. Waste of time except for the sweet pic.
Probably needed a certain amount of copper to shoot well. I’ve experienced the same starting about 22 years ago with a Ruger 77. Too clean is actually a thing sometimes. It changed the way I clean. I rarely remove the copper unless accuracy degrades. I do clean the carbon out with C4, but I leave the copper.
Yep I’m a good ole Hoppes guy until fouling affects accuracy and then I do the JB Bore paste and have to break it in again lol.
^^^ this.
Or wrap 320 grit emery around a jag and run up and down the barrel until it shines.
Sirhr
(PS… don’t do that. It is satire. Seriously. )
I would just add that if you hadn't had the bore cam you never would've know there was an issue, because there's isn't one. My point is this: bore cams have a way of birthing issues, not necessarily identifying issues. Guys (myself included) get themselves a shiny new bore cam and all of a sudden the rifle they've been shooting for many years with no issues at all has a growth in the bore that is going to suck the life out of the gun and humanity alike. Do yourself a favor, use the bore cam to identify legitimate problems that arise, use it for periodic checks, use it when you need it but don't get down in the weeds on what your seeing because I can just about guarantee it's not a big deal. I'm not giving you a hard time, just the benefit of my own lessons learned.
Please keep confirming that you're an idiot. People here are long past fudd tribal knowledge on just about anything rifle related.
Only accurate rifles are interesting. This is a .85-1.00 MOA over 30 shots hunting rifle. When the bore is cleaned to the steel, it shoots like a blunder buss.
Well your clean rifle sounds pretty uninteresting…
I’d prolly change barrel brands…
Probably will when this one is shot out but not right now when it shoots well dirty.
Ok, let’s not look at bore cam pics. Shoot that bitch and show me a 5 shot group. Does it open up when dirty or not? Dirty is good! Dirty jeans, dirty trucks, and especially dirty girls! Dirty rifles are just a continuation of dirty.
I clean my shit every 400 rnds whether it needs it or not. And when I do….the first 20 down the pipe suck! Needs a little copper fouling and a little carbon to make it feel right. Quit stressing and shoot!
I clean my shit every 400 rnds whether it needs it or not. And when I do….the first 20 down the pipe suck! Needs a little copper fouling and a little carbon to make it feel right. Quit stressing and shoot!
It should not harm STAINLESS STEEL. If you use CLR on a carbon steel barrel (PLENTY of guns made with carbon steel barrels out there!) you will fuck it right up. The CLR will, in effect, pull the carbon out of the alloy, leaving with a barrel that's all pitted to hell. If the barrel is actually blued, it's carbon steel of some flavor (blueing is a controlled form of rust, basically - so stainless can't be blued).
Just being emphatic so someone doesn't read that and make an irreversible error!
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