Peace Officers respond to open carry

[sharac]

I guess there are people who dislike "pigs" even more than few posters here whom everyone falsely accuses of cop hating while in fact most of the posts are about cops abusing their power.

I wonder why is this guys decision not to wear seat belt such a big deal while other types of crimes are (if judging by statistics) not problematic (check out the Oakland thread). Its easy to write a ticket much easier than taking out drug dealers, corruption, mafia or gangs...

 

[sulcop96]

I guess there are people who dislike "pigs" even more than few posters here whom everyone falsely accuses of cop hating while in fact most of the posts are about cops abusing their power.

I wonder why is this guys decision not to wear seat belt such a big deal while other types of crimes are (if judging by statistics) not problematic (check out the Oakland thread). Its easy to write a ticket much easier than taking out drug dealers, corruption, mafia or gangs...

Not wearing a seat belt is not a big deal, nor is having a headlight out or a crack in the windshield. However, a few months ago one of my officers made a simple traffic stop for a tail light out that led to the seizure of 14 grams of heroin and two firearms, one used in a recent shooting where the intended victim was missed and a teenage girl at a party was shot. Both suspects turned on the passenger for the shooting, bottom line three in custody and two illegal guns off the street.

Last week another officer in my department made a simple traffic stop for a "big deal" cracked windshield. The driver gave the officer a fake name and DOB. After some investigation the operator was on the run for a murder committed in NY. Inside the vehicle was the knife used in the murder and evidence of more crimes committed by this "citizen" along the way.

It is sometimes the simplest of things that lead to the to the apprehension of the biggest fish. I will freely admit that most officers I know get no thrill out of stopping vehicles for small infractions. On my shift there is quite a bit of traffic enforcement, but I see very few citations end up in the traffic box. If the officers actually relished the job of stopping cars for minor infractions the box would be overflowing, but what happens instead is that the officers use reasonable efforts to conduct reasonable traffic stops and attempt to make a positive impression while doing a job that most people resent us for. The reward is that every now and then the small, nuisance action of making a minor motor vehicle stop leads to the arrest of the drug dealer, mafia or gang member.

Sully

 

[sharac]

It is sometimes the simplest of things that lead to the to the apprehension of the biggest fish.

Agreed and very true however what i was getting at is that firstly most of the time its nuisance and petty $ fine (dunno how many times in US there is a verbal warning but here its just € collection) and secondly some assholes develop a strategy out of it by making road blocks and "all the gestapo folklore" that goes with it.

 

[bogeybrown]

I don't want to enter into a seatbelt debate because I personally never gave a shit if someone wanted to launch themselves through their own windshield at 70mph. However, on top of the reasons Sully mentioned of a LOT of bad people getting caught for some VERY minor things. Here was my reason for the seatbelt stop:

In our jurisdiction, a seatbelt fine was $10 with no court costs. Pretty much everything else was a decent fine PLUS a minimum of $105 in court costs, so even if you "won" the court case on the ticket, you were still stuck paying $105 to the court. Our shitbag mayor bankrupted the city in his first term of office before being elected un-opposed for a second term (the power of stupid people in large numbers). His "big" idea for raising money was through ticket revenue, so he increased the size of our traffic division, then increased the # of tickets they were required to write per shift, THEN set a mandatory ticket quota for every patrol officer.
I refused to play that game and would issue a "false alarm notification" on burglar alarms that "counted" as a ticket on my daily summary, but didn't cost anyone any money unless it was their 4th false alarm in a year. On months where I didn't get enough false alarms to hit my magic number, I'd write a couple of equipment tickets which could be dismissed with no charge at all to the driver if they got the equipment violation fixed and verified within 5 days, OR I would write a couple of seatbelt tickets that were $10 bucks with no mandatory court appearance and no court costs.

We'd also get some grants that paid patrol officers to come in on overtime to write tickets, and you were required to have "X" number of tickets at the end of the day to justify your OT. SO, again the seatbelt and equipment tickets because I could satisfy the ticket requirement at the minimum risk of causing financial hardship to a citizen. The stops were as non-invasive as I could possibly make them and I let a TON of shit slide while I was on those grants.

Moses asked earlier about the mandatory enforcement stuff. This was one of those cases where we were handed a shit sandwich and tried to do the LEAST amount of "harm" while adhering to the requirement.

 

[MosesTheTank]

ahhhhhhhh I much enjoy a good ole heated thread of douchebaggery, it is all so clear in the end who circle jerks each other and high fives each other with their ballsacks. It is also clear the number of folks gonna be standing around saying "wait you cant do that, I'm telling, yes sir mister policeman I will get in that cattle truck headed to a reeducation facility" when, heaven forbid, the balloon ever does go up.

I don't know that you can reliably tell too much from this thread. However, I do know that quite a few police forces and armies have made grave mistakes in their assessment of sheep vs fighters. Certainly good manners is not an indicator of sheeple. My favorite personal example is the immediate aftermath of hurricane Katrina. The area of focus for mayhem, virtually all of the news coverage, one of the most corrupt police forces in the western hemisphere, abuses of power, and where the worlds assistance was dumped is an area you could circumnavigate on foot in half a day. And the destruction here absolutely pales in comparison to those areas just east of New Orleans from St Bernard Parish through to Biloxi. And it is on this line between Orleans and St Bernard Parishes, a mere line in the street, that the bullshit stopped... whether you were a thug who wore a badge or not.

The difference between the two sides of that line is the people who lived to either side of it. It is the people who dictate their environment, be it to their detriment or betterment. On one side of that line it is somewhat fashionable to call those guys who wear blue uniforms and have remarkably similar short haircuts "pigs". Not just any one of them, but rather "pigs" as a group. Of course if you were to deposit almost any other group of people into your handy basket of prejudice you would be a bad person. On the other side of that line were a group of people that suffered the injustice of being completely ignored because a number of factors. To avoid getting the boot for something political, I will just say that they were exceedingly boring. There was not mass violence and looting by both civilians and police.

The moment you need to pick up the phone to call the ACLU on your local police department is the moment that you should realize you have been screwed for a long time. If someone from DC needs to come fix your problem it probably can't be fixed. If I were a lurking predator I might take this as an indicator for the path of least resistance on the road to "sending the balloon up". If a community and its police force are not working together and accountable to each other I put the blame first on the community as they have the power of the purse, and to vote. And how weak are you when you can't fix the problem yourself? Personally, I voted with my feet a long time ago as I imagined the aftermath of a shit storm and had no desire to suffer through it with such people. Maybe I am naive, but I feel much more secure living in a community of relatively independent thinkers who feel a sense of personal accountability to their immediate surroundings, and are held accountable to each other. That goes for both sides of the badge.

 

[Jedi]

This thread has really brought out some thinkers- those who love calling cops pigs (marduk185 pure awesomeness) and now someone who can't make a good argument so starts talking about how law enforcement is getting fat (no doubt from all the doughnuts, right Jedi?) and need better fitness standards.

Wow the weight thing must be a nerve, regardless you have misrepresented my comment which as stated before was in response to

Originally Posted by KYpatriot
They should be paid more than military officers because they must temper that force out of respect for the Constitution, which increases risk. Their moral character should be above reproach because everything about respecting the rule of law makes their job more difficult and rare is the man who can self-limit his own power.


IF LE is to be paid like MIL then they should have like performance standards, pert simple i thought.
However as i used physical fitness as an example, NO i did not infer or state LE has a weight issue

You did that all by yourself, congrats. If you must quote then at least provide factual recount vs what you think was stated
Apparently you are one of the "thinkers" you refer to based on your misinterpretation of my statement
"Why are there no fitness standards for law enforcement officers on an ongoing basis? Most departments require new recruits to pass a physical agility test. Once that initial test is successfully completed, it will most likely be the last one that officer will ever have to take for the rest of his or her career.
This one glaring difference disqualifies them from performing to same standard as MIL, so NO i do not think they warrant the same pay".

I have provided statement in question for you to examine at your leisure, feel free to highlight where i used anything derogatory
ie: FAT, overweight, donuts, lard ass etc
Give ya plenty of time to think about it, which obviously you failed to do before making your post

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have had very little official dealings with Law Enforcement and clearly believe I can neither walk in their shoes, nor objectively criticize any aspect of their work.

Unofficially, about 30-40% of the members of my first Marine Corps League Detachment were Law Enforcement on municipal and state levels. Like any other trade, most were genuine decent guys, and a very small few were narrow minded badge knockers, with none I could discern being anywhere in between.

I figure I get what I give, and when I need to interact with Law Enforcement in an official manner, I treat them with genuine respect and make an distinct effort to be part of the solution, and not the problem. This extends far enough to cause me to bite my tongue before joining in on any pig bashing.

From where I can see, I guess I'm not especially like most folks who join this sort of discussion, and I'm not inclined to tell anyone they should try emulating me.

I figure the best way to bring an unwanted outcome is to stick out my chin and lead with it. Been there, seen it, and it's definitely not for me. I figure folks who feel a need to explain to a professional how and where their performance might be substandard at the time of contact are also likely to need explain many things afterward as well.

If I get screwed in the process, I figure acting out isn't going to help, and besides, isn't that what lawyers are for?

I have zero intention of ever entering a courtroom on my own behalf. If matters ever get that far, I am well and truly screwed; and keeping things from getting that far is what paying for a good lawyer buys, cheap at twice the price. Courtrooms are like walking on coals. Some may see a thrill; I'd rather just skip the entire process.

Patience, reticence, and restraint are all very good and highly underrated traits. Anyone cruising in dangerous waters would do well to cherish them, regardless of how much it might chafe at the crucial moment.

Greg

 

[fdkay]

I guess there are people who dislike "pigs" even more than few posters here whom everyone falsely accuses of cop hating while in fact most of the posts are about cops abusing their power.

I wonder why is this guys decision not to wear seat belt such a big deal while other types of crimes are (if judging by statistics) not problematic (check out the Oakland thread). Its easy to write a ticket much easier than taking out drug dealers, corruption, mafia or gangs...

I had a feeling someone would latch on to the whole seatbelt as the reason for the stop. I only mentioned it because it is mentioned in the video. (it wasn't meant as a trap). A violation is a violation. I don't hassle folks for not wearing their seatbelts, I personally think it is a gov't overreach. However, I do cite for unrestrained children.
Trooper Vetters was a DPS Trooper, their primary function is basically traffic enforcement (this is a gross oversimplification). They look for infractions of the traffic code and they conduct these types of stops all the time. It is one of the best ways to interdict drug traffic, drunk drivers etc...
The point of my posting the video is that no traffic stop is truly routine. This particular one resulted in the death of a trooper.
A cop never knows who he is dealing with, Eric Rudolph was arrested by a rookie cop while Rudolph was behind a drug store. The Officer thought Rudolph was casing the place for a burglary in progress and ended up arresting the man responsible for the Atlanta Olympics bombing.
I haven't heard of many folks complaining about that officer "hassling" a citizen when that citizen was not doing anything illegal at the time.
Isn't that a funny standard.
A person, due to there actions, whether it be due to time of day, location, suspicious circumstance or alarming behavior, draws the attention of police.
That person was investigated and found to be doing nothing illegal and released (I fully concur that you can NORMALLY take control of a situation without resorting to threats). However, according to some, those cops are fucking pigs.

Another person acting suspiciously is investigated and found to be on the FBI's ten most wanted list for a series of bombings and is arrested. Yet, nobody is calling that officer a fucking pig for doing his job.

 

[xdpatriot]

I had a feeling someone would latch on to the whole seatbelt as the reason for the stop. I only mentioned it because it is mentioned in the video. (it wasn't meant as a trap). A violation is a violation. I don't hassle folks for not wearing their seatbelts, I personally think it is a gov't overreach. However, I do cite for unrestrained children.
Trooper Vetters was a DPS Trooper, their primary function is basically traffic enforcement (this is a gross oversimplification). They look for infractions of the traffic code and they conduct these types of stops all the time. It is one of the best ways to interdict drug traffic, drunk drivers etc...
The point of my posting the video is that no traffic stop is truly routine. This particular one resulted in the death of a trooper.
A cop never knows who he is dealing with, Eric Rudolph was arrested by a rookie cop while Rudolph was behind a drug store. The Officer thought Rudolph was casing the place for a burglary in progress and ended up arresting the man responsible for the Atlanta Olympics bombing.
I haven't heard of many folks complaining about that officer "hassling" a citizen when that citizen was not doing anything illegal at the time.
Isn't that a funny standard.
A person, due to there actions, whether it be due to time of day, location, suspicious circumstance or alarming behavior, draws the attention of police.
That person was investigated and found to be doing nothing illegal and released (I fully concur that you can NORMALLY take control of a situation without resorting to threats). However, according to some, those cops are fucking pigs.

Another person acting suspiciously is investigated and found to be on the FBI's ten most wanted list for a series of bombings and is arrested. Yet, nobody is calling that officer a fucking pig for doing his job.

I appreciate your being fair on seatbelts. In my opinion, its the small things like that ( not citing unless a child is in danger ) that shows character. If you don't want to trample someone over a seatbelt, I doubt you'd do it for something really important. Keep it up and thanks.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I think calling cops "pigs" was a bit out of date and uncalled for myself. You get as many bad cops as you get bad people in any group, the difference is the scale of damage on society a bad cop can have, including degrading public trust in the good cops. Police work is serious business.
Fighting Over Donut - Commercial - YouTube

 

[fdkay]

I think calling cops "pigs" was a bit out of date and uncalled for myself. You get as many bad cops as you get bad people in any group, the difference is the scale of damage on society a bad cop can have, including degrading public trust in the good cops. Police work is serious business.

You speak the truth, and I agree with you.
I take my ability to deny someone of their liberty as a very serious matter.
I frequently look for a way to release someone, though there are certain offenses for which I have zero tolerance, DWI being one of them.
I have no problem putting the cuffs on someone and taking them to jail, but I do not go to work everyday, looking forward to arresting someone. I think, if folks were objective, would realize that folks like me are in the majority, not the minority.

There are over 800,00 sworn personnel working for state and local LE agencies throughout the country. This isn't counting the Feds.
That is an awful big slice of humanity.
Are there turd cops?
You betcha, I hate them.
Are there cops that violate some ones rights in an attempt to do the right thing? Yes. Sometimes intentionally, most times not.
The big problem is, when a cop is having a bad day, it can, unfortunately, lead to violations, bad contacts etc...

It sucks, but until you have cops that aren't human, you are going to have cops with human problems and just like everyone else, sometimes they take those problems to work.

 

[augnmike]

Not to make a big deal out of no seat belts but it's like the helmet laws for motorcyclists. When they end up in the ER on life support with no insurance it does become my problem since my rates reflect the need for ER's to cover these folks. Of course now that Obamacare is a well oiled machine this will not be a problem.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I think, if folks were objective, would realize that folks like me are in the majority, not the minority.

Pick any week you want, but here is what we get to read for a typical news in 1 day (today):

Woman calls for justice after 'police beat her husband to death in front of their daughter' in a movie theater row | Mail Online
California police officers taser a deaf man and knock him unconscious while he was trying to use sign language to communicate with them | Mail Online

What we don't hear is any public condemnation of things that happen by other people of the same group and very seldom see any actual justice done (as in the same justice that would be meted out if someone else did the same thing).

Now in my opinion based pretty much solely on reading as much news and commentary as I can, it seems these incidents are getting much more frequent and with more tragic results & less accountability. I could be totally wrong and it could be the same amount as always, & everybody responsible always got away with it, but it is just now being reported more.
Either way it casts serious shadows of doubt over an entire profession, the lack of condemnation just as much as the acts themselves.

 

[Slapchop]

If it weren't for the bad apples in the human race, there would be no need for us pigs.

 

[marduk185]

wow yeah, insurance requirements, another unconstitutional but enforced law that leads to other unconstitutional requirements like seatbelts and helmets....this thread gets better and better but i digress.

 

[marduk185]

If it weren't for the bad apples in the human race, there would be no need for us pigs.

it has been stated by the courts that police have no duty or resposibility to protect the safety of individuals at all but rather serve to preserve the peace for a community as a whole. translation...pigs serve the man=pigs protect the bad apples from the rest of us, whether they are fully cognizant of this fact or not makes no matter.so yes slapchop in a way you are right.

 

[ArmyJerry]

You do have a point, but with technology i.e. Facebook, YouTube, camera phones and other social media impacting the way the public views the police, evolutionary change is happening. It used to be that only the hood people distrusted the police, now that feeling is spreading to the larger population with increased publicity. I think we are at the stage where the good cops are playing catch up. The first reaction of any group under scrutiny is to close ranks, which the police always have done in the past anyway, second group reaction is examination of the issue, then fixing the problem if it is internal. I think the people and police are at the examination phase right now. Lets see what happens. I am old enough to remember walking into Penn station and seeing heroine addicts passed out on the floor with needles in their arms in the late 70's, cops just standing there drinking coffee, not even checking on the druggie. Why didn't they care? because no one else cared, crime was very high at the time and continued through the 80's and early 90's. Then the public changed their minds, car jackings, crack epidemic, and crime in general got out of hand and started to come to the burbs and high end city hoods. They demanded that the cops start doing something, and the cops did do something, community policing, task force take downs, kicking ass, taking no sht from any hood attitude, policy changes forced this. Now we are at a stage where we will start telling the police to back it off a bit, but they are still on protective attack dog mode. Its like turning the Titanic, turn the wheel and wait 30 minutes for the ship to start turning. In the mean time we have full prisons, very full, driven by a lot of mandatory sentencing, cops geared up on adrenalin, and the public changing the rules again. Where is the happy medium? I don't know , I hate seeing cops abuse citizens, I also hate seeing drug addicts robbing people for their next fix, passed out in public, in front of kids, car jackin people etc etc. I also don't trust judges or the legal system to use discretion, our judges have proved top be inept at best, letting murderers walk, drug dealers walk, and everything in between get messed up, this is why we have mandatory sentences in the first place, its a conundrum. At the end of the day, my trust in the police has lessened as I get older, got a faebook/youtube account, but I know what RWOL looks like and its not nice, I do trust the individual cop more than I trust our legal system. My kids who are just graduating college will be demanding action from the cops again in 20-30 years, the LEO kids on this forum will be telling them "I told you so" in 20-30 years.

I hate when people refer to the cops as pigs, brings back memories of my youth in Newark/Elizabeth NJ with the fkn hippie/commie/black militant bastard yelling at them and calling them pigs, all those fkrs are either dead,in prison, or running our government now, other words, totally useless pieces of sht.

Pick any week you want, but here is what we get to read for a typical news in 1 day (today):

Woman calls for justice after 'police beat her husband to death in front of their daughter' in a movie theater row | Mail Online
California police officers taser a deaf man and knock him unconscious while he was trying to use sign language to communicate with them | Mail Online

What we don't hear is any public condemnation of things that happen by other people of the same group and very seldom see any actual justice done (as in the same justice that would be meted out if someone else did the same thing).

Now in my opinion based pretty much solely on reading as much news and commentary as I can, it seems these incidents are getting much more frequent and with more tragic results & less accountability. I could be totally wrong and it could be the same amount as always, & everybody responsible always got away with it, but it is just now being reported more.
Either way it casts serious shadows of doubt over an entire profession, the lack of condemnation just as much as the acts themselves.

 

[ArmyJerry]

double post

 

[sulcop96]

Pick any week you want, but here is what we get to read for a typical news in 1 day (today):

Woman calls for justice after 'police beat her husband to death in front of their daughter' in a movie theater row | Mail Online
California police officers taser a deaf man and knock him unconscious while he was trying to use sign language to communicate with them | Mail Online

What we don't hear is any public condemnation of things that happen by other people of the same group and very seldom see any actual justice done (as in the same justice that would be meted out if someone else did the same thing).

Now in my opinion based pretty much solely on reading as much news and commentary as I can, it seems these incidents are getting much more frequent and with more tragic results & less accountability. I could be totally wrong and it could be the same amount as always, & everybody responsible always got away with it, but it is just now being reported more.
Either way it casts serious shadows of doubt over an entire profession, the lack of condemnation just as much as the acts themselves.

Ok, have to interject on this one. In the last six months members of my department have done some wonderful things. The entire PD collected donations and bought a Christmas for a kid who had the misfortune of being born to a hooker mom and dealer day who burned down the house. We wanted to keep it QT but the grandmother of the kid called the media. No one was interested.

An off duty patrol officer was involved with a water rescue in NH when on vacation and saved a girl from drowning in the rapids by a swimming hole. He was seriously hurt but considered a hero by the family of the girl. Made news up there, a few spots, but no mention of his being an off duty police officer. Our local media didn't have any interest when our administration put it out.

Last year one of our officers was standing a detail another town. He hear screaming and people yelling for help and ran into a burning building. He pulled out one person and was accompanied by the off duty deputy Chief of that PD and both went in again. They retrieved a second party who they attempted CPR until rescue arrived however she did not recover. I put him in for the life saving award and the Red Cross hero's award and he received both. Again, almost zero media coverage.

Three months ago one of my female officers, all 5' and 102 ponds of her, responded to a domestic. An out of control 15 year old, over 6' and 240 pounds, punched her in the face. She dropped but is a little bad ass and popped back up. He grabbed a broken chair leg and came at her telling her he was going to cave in her skull. She had EVERY right to go to deadly force BUT tazed him. He took the ride and attempted to get onto his feet and go after her again. She hit him with a second 5 second ride and then a third when he recovered and again wanted to "fuck the bitch up" then follow up units arrived and he was cuffed and secured.

Next day in front of the station is FOX News and other media. Headlines of the Times reads "Officers repeatedly Tazer unarmed teen" and that was the headline. The rport was three responding officer taz this poor helpless teen in his own kitchen. They forgot about the part where he beat is 10 year old sister to a pulp or punched the officer and went after her with the table leg.

San Diego CA an officer getting lunch sees a small boy who didn't have enough for lunch. He pulled out his wallet and covered the difference and had a positive exchange with him. Five min. later a EDP walked up to his patrol car sitting at a traffic light and shot him in the head. The only reason it got any play at all was because the boy was there and he was interviewed by a novice reporter.

My point is the positive incidents, in most of the Country, far out weight the negative. I am not blaming the media, they give the people what they want. The same people calling us "pigs" and questioning way we have to stop for minor traffic infractions based on laws, regulations and codes we did not write. The same people who can't control there own kids and call us in to be the bad guy and then tell the kids it was the police who responded that are bad, not mommy and daddy. The same people who see a cop behind them and say "oh shit, fucking pig behind me" but then wave at the passing fire truck.

The populous know we are a necessary evil but we become the scape goat and our flaws are magnified. I am NOT saying there are not bad cops. I have run across them and I have brought some of my own up on charges in an effort to weed them out early, for there sake and ours. It does no justice to "let them go" until a serious incident when you can get them out early and save them, and the public, the future fall out. But the social deck is stacked against us from the start.

I still love my job. I will respond to any call and lay my life on the line for the same public that wants to ignore our positive contributions, and even thought there are comments on the thread I find offensive I would not hesitate to lay my live on the line for anyone, no matter what comments they made or what contempt for my job lies in there hearts. And that is how most of my "pig" brethren feel. We don't need hugs or pats on the back, we have each other for that, we just want to do the job that our hearts guided us to do and be what we really are, sheepdogs.

Sully

 

[sulcop96]

Pick any week you want, but here is what we get to read for a typical news in 1 day (today):

Woman calls for justice after 'police beat her husband to death in front of their daughter' in a movie theater row | Mail Online
California police officers taser a deaf man and knock him unconscious while he was trying to use sign language to communicate with them | Mail Online

What we don't hear is any public condemnation of things that happen by other people of the same group and very seldom see any actual justice done (as in the same justice that would be meted out if someone else did the same thing).

Now in my opinion based pretty much solely on reading as much news and commentary as I can, it seems these incidents are getting much more frequent and with more tragic results & less accountability. I could be totally wrong and it could be the same amount as always, & everybody responsible always got away with it, but it is just now being reported more.
Either way it casts serious shadows of doubt over an entire profession, the lack of condemnation just as much as the acts themselves.

Ok, have to interject on this one. In the last six months members of my department have done some wonderful things. The entire PD collected donations and bought a Christmas for a kid who had the misfortune of being born to a hooker mom and dealer day who burned down the house. We wanted to keep it QT but the grandmother of the kid called the media. No one was interested.

An off duty patrol officer was involved with a water rescue in NH when on vacation and saved a girl from drowning in the rapids by a swimming hole. He was seriously hurt but considered a hero by the family of the girl. Made news up there, a few spots, but no mention of his being an off duty police officer. Our local media didn't have any interest when our administration put it out.

Last year one of our officers was standing a detail another town. He hear screaming and people yelling for help and ran into a burning building. He pulled out one person and was accompanied by the off duty deputy Chief of that PD and both went in again. They retrieved a second party who they attempted CPR until rescue arrived however she did not recover. I put him in for the life saving award and the Red Cross hero's award and he received both. Again, almost zero media coverage.

Three months ago one of my female officers, all 5' and 102 ponds of her, responded to a domestic. An out of control 15 year old, over 6' and 240 pounds, punched her in the face. She dropped but is a little bad ass and popped back up. He grabbed a broken chair leg and came at her telling her he was going to cave in her skull. She had EVERY right to go to deadly force BUT tazed him. He took the ride and attempted to get onto his feet and go after her again. She hit him with a second 5 second ride and then a third when he recovered and again wanted to "fuck the bitch up" then follow up units arrived and he was cuffed and secured.

Next day in front of the station is FOX News and other media. Headlines of the Times reads "Officers repeatedly Tazer unarmed teen" and that was the headline. The rport was three responding officer taz this poor helpless teen in his own kitchen. They forgot about the part where he beat is 10 year old sister to a pulp or punched the officer and went after her with the table leg.

San Diego CA an officer getting lunch sees a small boy who didn't have enough for lunch. He pulled out his wallet and covered the difference and had a positive exchange with him. Five min. later a EDP walked up to his patrol car sitting at a traffic light and shot him in the head. The only reason it got any play at all was because the boy was there and he was interviewed by a novice reporter.

My point is the positive incidents, in most of the Country, far out weight the negative. I am not blaming the media, they give the people what they want. The same people calling us "pigs" and questioning way we have to stop for minor traffic infractions based on laws, regulations and codes we did not write. The same people who can't control there own kids and call us in to be the bad guy and then tell the kids it was the police who responded that are bad, not mommy and daddy. The same people who see a cop behind them and say "oh shit, fucking pig behind me" but then wave at the passing fire truck.

The populous know we are a necessary evil but we become the scape goat and our flaws are magnified. I am NOT saying there are not bad cops. I have run across them and I have brought some of my own up on charges in an effort to weed them out early, for there sake and ours. It does no justice to "let them go" until a serious incident when you can get them out early and save them, and the public, the future fall out. But the social deck is stacked against us from the start.

I still love my job. I will respond to any call and lay my life on the line for the same public that wants to ignore our positive contributions, and even thought there are comments on the thread I find offensive I would not hesitate to lay my live on the line for anyone, no matter what comments they made or what contempt for my job lies in there hearts. And that is how most of my "pig" brethren feel. We don't need hugs or pats on the back, we have each other for that, we just want to do the job that our hearts guided us to do and be what we really are, sheepdogs.

Sully

 

[Slapchop]

Ok, have to interject on this one. In the last six months members of my department have done some wonderful things. The entire PD collected donations and bought a Christmas for a kid who had the misfortune of being born to a hooker mom and dealer day who burned down the house. We wanted to keep it QT but the grandmother of the kid called the media. No one was interested.

An off duty patrol officer was involved with a water rescue in NH when on vacation and saved a girl from drowning in the rapids by a swimming hole. He was seriously hurt but considered a hero by the family of the girl. Made news up there, a few spots, but no mention of his being an off duty police officer. Our local media didn't have any interest when our administration put it out.

Last year one of our officers was standing a detail another town. He hear screaming and people yelling for help and ran into a burning building. He pulled out one person and was accompanied by the off duty deputy Chief of that PD and both went in again. They retrieved a second party who they attempted CPR until rescue arrived however she did not recover. I put him in for the life saving award and the Red Cross hero's award and he received both. Again, almost zero media coverage.

Three months ago one of my female officers, all 5' and 102 ponds of her, responded to a domestic. An out of control 15 year old, over 6' and 240 pounds, punched her in the face. She dropped but is a little bad ass and popped back up. He grabbed a broken chair leg and came at her telling her he was going to cave in her skull. She had EVERY right to go to deadly force BUT tazed him. He took the ride and attempted to get onto his feet and go after her again. She hit him with a second 5 second ride and then a third when he recovered and again wanted to "fuck the bitch up" then follow up units arrived and he was cuffed and secured.

Next day in front of the station is FOX News and other media. Headlines of the Times reads "Officers repeatedly Tazer unarmed teen" and that was the headline. The rport was three responding officer taz this poor helpless teen in his own kitchen. They forgot about the part where he beat is 10 year old sister to a pulp or punched the officer and went after her with the table leg.

San Diego CA an officer getting lunch sees a small boy who didn't have enough for lunch. He pulled out his wallet and covered the difference and had a positive exchange with him. Five min. later a EDP walked up to his patrol car sitting at a traffic light and shot him in the head. The only reason it got any play at all was because the boy was there and he was interviewed by a novice reporter.

My point is the positive incidents, in most of the Country, far out weight the negative. I am not blaming the media, they give the people what they want. The same people calling us "pigs" and questioning way we have to stop for minor traffic infractions based on laws, regulations and codes we did not write. The same people who can't control there own kids and call us in to be the bad guy and then tell the kids it was the police who responded that are bad, not mommy and daddy. The same people who see a cop behind them and say "oh shit, fucking pig behind me" but then wave at the passing fire truck.

The populous know we are a necessary evil but we become the scape goat and our flaws are magnified. I am NOT saying there are not bad cops. I have run across them and I have brought some of my own up on charges in an effort to weed them out early, for there sake and ours. It does no justice to "let them go" until a serious incident when you can get them out early and save them, and the public, the future fall out. But the social deck is stacked against us from the start.

I still love my job. I will respond to any call and lay my life on the line for the same public that wants to ignore our positive contributions, and even thought there are comments on the thread I find offensive I would not hesitate to lay my live on the line for anyone, no matter what comments they made or what contempt for my job lies in there hearts. And that is how most of my "pig" brethren feel. We don't need hugs or pats on the back, we have each other for that, we just want to do the job that our hearts guided us to do and be what we really are, sheepdogs.

Sully

Amen brother, well said.




Now cue one of the usual suspects linking videos and articles of police brutality in 3...2...1...

 

[xdpatriot]

If it weren't for the bad apples in the human race, there would be no need for us pigs.

Shouldn't you be tazing old ladies or sniffin dudes crotches or something? Sheesh, what are we paying you for?

 

[Deputy D.A.]

Not to make a big deal out of no seat belts but it's like the helmet laws for motorcyclists. When they end up in the ER on life support with no insurance it does become my problem since my rates reflect the need for ER's to cover these folks.

That's true, but how far do you want to let government go in legislating your life choices. Is it ok to ban adults from smoking due to increased risk of heart disease and cancer that will impact the cost of insurance and also increases taxes. Will it be ok for government to restrict everyone's BMI/body fat by requiring 30 minutes of daily exercise and no high fat foods. Would it be ok for government to require genetic testing and analysis of family medical history before a couple can have a child, so we don't allow people with increased dispositions for expensive medical conditions to have children. The list is endless, and can quickly reach what most people (certainly not all, however) would consider absurd. In many areas it seems like we already have abdicated excessive regulation of our personal decisions/lives to government. Maybe it's true in life that sometimes less is better.

 

[Slapchop]

Shouldn't you be tazing old ladies or sniffin dudes crotches or something? Sheesh, what are we paying you for?

Yes sir, I'm on it!

 

[W54/XM-388]

Ok, have to interject on this one. In the last six months members of my department have done some wonderful things. The entire PD collected donations and bought a Christmas for a kid who had the misfortune of being born to a hooker mom and dealer day who burned down the house. We wanted to keep it QT but the grandmother of the kid called the media. No one was interested.

An off duty patrol officer was involved with a water rescue in NH when on vacation and saved a girl from drowning in the rapids by a swimming hole. He was seriously hurt but considered a hero by the family of the girl. Made news up there, a few spots, but no mention of his being an off duty police officer. Our local media didn't have any interest when our administration put it out.

Last year one of our officers was standing a detail another town. He hear screaming and people yelling for help and ran into a burning building. He pulled out one person and was accompanied by the off duty deputy Chief of that PD and both went in again. They retrieved a second party who they attempted CPR until rescue arrived however she did not recover. I put him in for the life saving award and the Red Cross hero's award and he received both. Again, almost zero media coverage.

Three months ago one of my female officers, all 5' and 102 ponds of her, responded to a domestic. An out of control 15 year old, over 6' and 240 pounds, punched her in the face. She dropped but is a little bad ass and popped back up. He grabbed a broken chair leg and came at her telling her he was going to cave in her skull. She had EVERY right to go to deadly force BUT tazed him. He took the ride and attempted to get onto his feet and go after her again. She hit him with a second 5 second ride and then a third when he recovered and again wanted to "fuck the bitch up" then follow up units arrived and he was cuffed and secured.

Next day in front of the station is FOX News and other media. Headlines of the Times reads "Officers repeatedly Tazer unarmed teen" and that was the headline. The rport was three responding officer taz this poor helpless teen in his own kitchen. They forgot about the part where he beat is 10 year old sister to a pulp or punched the officer and went after her with the table leg.

San Diego CA an officer getting lunch sees a small boy who didn't have enough for lunch. He pulled out his wallet and covered the difference and had a positive exchange with him. Five min. later a EDP walked up to his patrol car sitting at a traffic light and shot him in the head. The only reason it got any play at all was because the boy was there and he was interviewed by a novice reporter.

My point is the positive incidents, in most of the Country, far out weight the negative. I am not blaming the media, they give the people what they want. The same people calling us "pigs" and questioning way we have to stop for minor traffic infractions based on laws, regulations and codes we did not write. The same people who can't control there own kids and call us in to be the bad guy and then tell the kids it was the police who responded that are bad, not mommy and daddy. The same people who see a cop behind them and say "oh shit, fucking pig behind me" but then wave at the passing fire truck.

The populous know we are a necessary evil but we become the scape goat and our flaws are magnified. I am NOT saying there are not bad cops. I have run across them and I have brought some of my own up on charges in an effort to weed them out early, for there sake and ours. It does no justice to "let them go" until a serious incident when you can get them out early and save them, and the public, the future fall out. But the social deck is stacked against us from the start.

I still love my job. I will respond to any call and lay my life on the line for the same public that wants to ignore our positive contributions, and even thought there are comments on the thread I find offensive I would not hesitate to lay my live on the line for anyone, no matter what comments they made or what contempt for my job lies in there hearts. And that is how most of my "pig" brethren feel. We don't need hugs or pats on the back, we have each other for that, we just want to do the job that our hearts guided us to do and be what we really are, sheepdogs.

Sully

Thank you very much for taking the time to post that, it is probably the best post on the subject that I have read.
I appreciate your dedication

 

[VJJPunisher]

Ok, have to interject on this one. In the last six months members of my department have done some wonderful things. The entire PD collected donations and bought a Christmas for a kid who had the misfortune of being born to a hooker mom and dealer day who burned down the house. We wanted to keep it QT but the grandmother of the kid called the media. No one was interested.

An off duty patrol officer was involved with a water rescue in NH when on vacation and saved a girl from drowning in the rapids by a swimming hole. He was seriously hurt but considered a hero by the family of the girl. Made news up there, a few spots, but no mention of his being an off duty police officer. Our local media didn't have any interest when our administration put it out.

Last year one of our officers was standing a detail another town. He hear screaming and people yelling for help and ran into a burning building. He pulled out one person and was accompanied by the off duty deputy Chief of that PD and both went in again. They retrieved a second party who they attempted CPR until rescue arrived however she did not recover. I put him in for the life saving award and the Red Cross hero's award and he received both. Again, almost zero media coverage.

Three months ago one of my female officers, all 5' and 102 ponds of her, responded to a domestic. An out of control 15 year old, over 6' and 240 pounds, punched her in the face. She dropped but is a little bad ass and popped back up. He grabbed a broken chair leg and came at her telling her he was going to cave in her skull. She had EVERY right to go to deadly force BUT tazed him. He took the ride and attempted to get onto his feet and go after her again. She hit him with a second 5 second ride and then a third when he recovered and again wanted to "fuck the bitch up" then follow up units arrived and he was cuffed and secured.

Next day in front of the station is FOX News and other media. Headlines of the Times reads "Officers repeatedly Tazer unarmed teen" and that was the headline. The rport was three responding officer taz this poor helpless teen in his own kitchen. They forgot about the part where he beat is 10 year old sister to a pulp or punched the officer and went after her with the table leg.

San Diego CA an officer getting lunch sees a small boy who didn't have enough for lunch. He pulled out his wallet and covered the difference and had a positive exchange with him. Five min. later a EDP walked up to his patrol car sitting at a traffic light and shot him in the head. The only reason it got any play at all was because the boy was there and he was interviewed by a novice reporter.

My point is the positive incidents, in most of the Country, far out weight the negative. I am not blaming the media, they give the people what they want. The same people calling us "pigs" and questioning way we have to stop for minor traffic infractions based on laws, regulations and codes we did not write. The same people who can't control there own kids and call us in to be the bad guy and then tell the kids it was the police who responded that are bad, not mommy and daddy. The same people who see a cop behind them and say "oh shit, fucking pig behind me" but then wave at the passing fire truck.

The populous know we are a necessary evil but we become the scape goat and our flaws are magnified. I am NOT saying there are not bad cops. I have run across them and I have brought some of my own up on charges in an effort to weed them out early, for there sake and ours. It does no justice to "let them go" until a serious incident when you can get them out early and save them, and the public, the future fall out. But the social deck is stacked against us from the start.

I still love my job. I will respond to any call and lay my life on the line for the same public that wants to ignore our positive contributions, and even thought there are comments on the thread I find offensive I would not hesitate to lay my live on the line for anyone, no matter what comments they made or what contempt for my job lies in there hearts. And that is how most of my "pig" brethren feel. We don't need hugs or pats on the back, we have each other for that, we just want to do the job that our hearts guided us to do and be what we really are, sheepdogs.

Sully

FWIW I just jerked off to this post

 

[17874]

Ok, have to interject on this one. In the last six months members of my department have done some wonderful things. The entire PD collected donations and bought a Christmas for a kid who had the misfortune of being born to a hooker mom and dealer day who burned down the house. We wanted to keep it QT but the grandmother of the kid called the media. No one was interested.

An off duty patrol officer was involved with a water rescue in NH when on vacation and saved a girl from drowning in the rapids by a swimming hole. He was seriously hurt but considered a hero by the family of the girl. Made news up there, a few spots, but no mention of his being an off duty police officer. Our local media didn't have any interest when our administration put it out.

Last year one of our officers was standing a detail another town. He hear screaming and people yelling for help and ran into a burning building. He pulled out one person and was accompanied by the off duty deputy Chief of that PD and both went in again. They retrieved a second party who they attempted CPR until rescue arrived however she did not recover. I put him in for the life saving award and the Red Cross hero's award and he received both. Again, almost zero media coverage.

Three months ago one of my female officers, all 5' and 102 ponds of her, responded to a domestic. An out of control 15 year old, over 6' and 240 pounds, punched her in the face. She dropped but is a little bad ass and popped back up. He grabbed a broken chair leg and came at her telling her he was going to cave in her skull. She had EVERY right to go to deadly force BUT tazed him. He took the ride and attempted to get onto his feet and go after her again. She hit him with a second 5 second ride and then a third when he recovered and again wanted to "fuck the bitch up" then follow up units arrived and he was cuffed and secured.

Next day in front of the station is FOX News and other media. Headlines of the Times reads "Officers repeatedly Tazer unarmed teen" and that was the headline. The rport was three responding officer taz this poor helpless teen in his own kitchen. They forgot about the part where he beat is 10 year old sister to a pulp or punched the officer and went after her with the table leg.

San Diego CA an officer getting lunch sees a small boy who didn't have enough for lunch. He pulled out his wallet and covered the difference and had a positive exchange with him. Five min. later a EDP walked up to his patrol car sitting at a traffic light and shot him in the head. The only reason it got any play at all was because the boy was there and he was interviewed by a novice reporter.

My point is the positive incidents, in most of the Country, far out weight the negative. I am not blaming the media, they give the people what they want. The same people calling us "pigs" and questioning way we have to stop for minor traffic infractions based on laws, regulations and codes we did not write. The same people who can't control there own kids and call us in to be the bad guy and then tell the kids it was the police who responded that are bad, not mommy and daddy. The same people who see a cop behind them and say "oh shit, fucking pig behind me" but then wave at the passing fire truck.

The populous know we are a necessary evil but we become the scape goat and our flaws are magnified. I am NOT saying there are not bad cops. I have run across them and I have brought some of my own up on charges in an effort to weed them out early, for there sake and ours. It does no justice to "let them go" until a serious incident when you can get them out early and save them, and the public, the future fall out. But the social deck is stacked against us from the start.

I still love my job. I will respond to any call and lay my life on the line for the same public that wants to ignore our positive contributions, and even thought there are comments on the thread I find offensive I would not hesitate to lay my live on the line for anyone, no matter what comments they made or what contempt for my job lies in there hearts. And that is how most of my "pig" brethren feel. We don't need hugs or pats on the back, we have each other for that, we just want to do the job that our hearts guided us to do and be what we really are, sheepdogs.

Sully

Amen, couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[marduk185]

sulcop and vjj had to go and make it all bromance gay.

 

[Veer_G]

sulcop and vjj had to go and make it all bromance gay.

So who does that make you, cupcake?

 

[marduk185]

So who does that make you, cupcake?

well i certainly dont agree with a lot of sulcop's feel good koombya rant about the saintly community benefits of having a police force. so im not sure what you are pointing toward veerg?

 

[marduk185]

"The populous know we are a necessary evil" , disagree on afew levels here

"positive incidents, in most of the Country, far out weight the negative." seems biased idea at best

"sheepdogs." problem with this philosophy goes to the root of the problem with the video at the start of this thread. we arent all sheep, and dont ask to be herded. we are free men and the sheepdog idea assumes we are someones livestock and that someone is paying you to herd us.

 

[Veer_G]

well i certainly dont agree with a lot of sulcop's feel good koombya rant about the saintly community benefits of having a police force. so im not sure what you are pointing toward veerg?

It was just a Pulp Fiction joke.

 

[marduk185]

ill have a coke then

 

[augnmike]

Just for the sake of conversation I once did a study of per capita complaints levied against a So Cal police agency vs. a Nordstrom store in the same jurisdiction. This was complaints per 100,000 contacts. Meaning every contact such as arrests, citations, medical calls, reports taken, basically everything. The PD had something like 27% fewer complaints. Not sure why I posted this since nothing posted changes anyone's closely held beliefs anyway and there are a million reasons why the police are vilified on this site not the least of which is a strong anti-government sentiment here and the police are by far and away the most visible arm of government. Not to mention the arm that can severely impact personal freedom and even legally take someone's life without legal process. So suffice to say that those of us who have and still do serve realize that most of us are lazy, afraid of the bad guys, badge heavy, and have almost no socially redeeming value. The reason we get up in the morning is to negatively impact the common working man and to inflict as much pain as possible. I will say though that 12 "good cops" left in America are doing all they can to fight this corrupt, malevolent hoard of despicable pieces of shit. I only retired because I got old and could not hold up my end of the corruption any longer. I still do what I can though by driving by homeless or unemployed people while waiving my retirement check stub in their face and yelling thanks for paying your taxes sucker. What can I say, "once a pig, always a pig." Seriously though I love you guys more than words can express.

 

[sulcop96]

well i certainly dont agree with a lot of sulcop's feel good koombya rant about the saintly community benefits of having a police force. so im not sure what you are pointing toward veerg?

Didn't think you would, and I'm fine with that.

Sully

 

[bogeybrown]

This new thread just came up in the Bear Pit. Since so many of my fellow LE professionals that are still on the job weighed in here, I figured this would be a one-stop-shop to give y'all the heads up. A little boy battling Leukemia has expressed his birthday wish to receive bday cards from Police and Fire Fighters. If I were still in a position to, all the guys on my squad would be turning in bday cards to me at check-off with their paperwork:

Boy battling cancer asks for birthday cards from police

 

[sulcop96]

This new thread just came up in the Bear Pit. Since so many of my fellow LE professionals that are still on the job weighed in here, I figured this would be a one-stop-shop to give y'all the heads up. A little boy battling Leukemia has expressed his birthday wish to receive bday cards from Police and Fire Fighters. If I were still in a position to, all the guys on my squad would be turning in bday cards to me at check-off with their paperwork:

Boy battling cancer asks for birthday cards from police

The officer that is helping spearhead this, Wil Couzzo, is a member of my Police Dept and is also the School Resource Officer. He has spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars out of his own pocket going around New England with causes just like this. Wil also holds a poker tournament with 100% of the proceeds going to help kids and he was the one in my above post who spear headed the effort to give a kid a Christmas.

Sorry Marduk I know all this koombya stuff makes you uncomfortable. Now you can continue your effort to find more articles about cops drowning puppies.

Sully

 

[augnmike]

Cops doing something good?????? No way possible, don't fall for this guys it's a trick. I saw on the news a little boy with cancer whose "make a wish" wish was to be a police officer, a local So Cal PD took it up completely outfitted the little guy in a uniform belt and radio and then took him out on patrol to answer calls. He had a blast beating undeserving citizens, writing chicken shit tickets, ignoring "real" crime and hanging at the donut shop. He was only four but they are keeping his name on file for when he's older since he's completely trained now. Gotta love "piglet" programs.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Our society is in a conflict of beliefs. We have those that want/need to have the sheep dog guarding them and are willing to give up their freedom to feel secure. Then we have those that freedom from lordship is more important than security. Several posts back the patriot act was mentioned ( I am too lazy to go back so credit to whoever). Our elected officials decided that personal freedoms are less important than safety. They were in a bad place because of the circumstances. The job of the Fed is national security and to have a major portion of the populace frozen with fear was a big concern. Everyone of us knows people that sat glued to the tube for weeks watching them dig up ruble in NY. Now we have LE behaving the same way. Trampling on freedom for the sake of security. It's a big problem/conflict. Policies are put in place with little regard to freedom in order to maintain a sense of peace and security. In the background the lawyers have twisted rational to defend these policies and some like minded judges have ruled in their favor.
Now my take on the original video. Officer exits the patrol car stating he is sure he knows the men are just out exercising their 2A rights. Then escalates it by telling them if you twitch we are within our rights to shoot you in the head. Officer #2 stays at a ready position pointing a weapon at citizens that have broken no laws and are not even suspected of breaking any laws. Yes they were open carry but after the Boston thing do the police now have the right to stop granny walking to a covered dish with a pot of stew? Draw their weapon on her and demand ID? Our Fed Govt is anti gun right now and they will in no way do anything to enlighten the populace of the laws on open carry. I think we can expect mostly the same out of local government. Thank God that the area I live in it's nothing new or special for people to walk around open carrying but in those areas where it's not common maybe the gun rights groups should do more to educate those that need to be coddled by big brother.

 

[EventHorizon]

Just perfect. Thank you.

 

[fdkay]

I wonder how some of you, those that insist that most cops are evil and the idea of a police force is unnecessary, would recommend society provide justice for crimes committed?

Just three weeks ago, I arrested an 18 year old man for the sexual assault of a twelve year old girl. I did this by conducting an investigation and obtaining a warrant for his arrest, all the while, ensuring that I did not violate his rights.

My partners in CID spent a couple of weeks chasing leads on a brutal beatdown that left a man in a coma on a ventilator. The assault was committed by a transient worker here. Again, they conducted their investigation, finally found the perps friend that was with him, obtained a warrant and arrested the suspect.

Without a Police force, who is going to do this?
Who is going to enforce the laws that society has deemed to enact?
Are all laws bad?
If your daughter was raped or your wife or son murdered, would you not want justice?
Just because you yourself may not be a sheep, does not mean that there are not people out there that are, or that there are people out there that need protection or assistance.

 

[EventHorizon]

I wonder how some of you, those that insist that most cops are evil and the idea of a police force is unnecessary, would recommend society provide justice for crimes committed?

Just three weeks ago, I arrested an 18 year old man for the sexual assault of a twelve year old girl. I did this by conducting an investigation and obtaining a warrant for his arrest, all the while, ensuring that I did not violate his rights.

My partners in CID spent a couple of weeks chasing leads on a brutal beatdown that left a man in a coma on a ventilator. The assault was committed by a transient worker here. Again, they conducted their investigation, finally found the perps friend that was with him, obtained a warrant and arrested the suspect.

Without a Police force, who is going to do this?
Who is going to enforce the laws that society has deemed to enact?
Are all laws bad?
If your daughter was raped or your wife or son murdered, would you not want justice?
Just because you yourself may not be a sheep, does not mean that there are not people out there that are, or that there are people out there that need protection or assistance.

Who has said, with any credible arguement, that police are unnecessary?!? What has been said is, the militirization of police and the attitude of SOME in how they enforce the law, in some cases illegally, is not addressed with the swiftness that is applied to transgessions of the law by regular civilians. We all need the police just as the police need to be subject to scrutiny and oversight themselves. It's when the public are given the perception that the oversight and right to question the police is actually an infringement that things get out of hand.

Your examples of arresting criminals is really odd. That's your job. That's what you chose to do as a free person. What's the point there?

 

[fdkay]

"sheepdogs." problem with this philosophy goes to the root of the problem with the video at the start of this thread. we arent all sheep, and dont ask to be herded. we are free men and the sheepdog idea assumes we are someones livestock and that someone is paying you to herd us.

Who has said, with any credible arguement, that police are unnecessary?!? What has been said is, the militirization of police and the attitude of SOME in how they enforce the law, in some cases illegally, is not addressed with the swiftness that is applied to transgessions of the law by regular civilians. We all need the police just as the police need to be subject to scrutiny and oversight themselves. It's when the public are given the perception that the oversight and right to question the police is actually an infringement that things get out of hand.

Your examples of arresting criminals is really odd. That's your job. That's what you chose to do as a free person. What's the point there?

Well, I guess you missed the point then.
If there is no Police, who will do these things?
And, yes, some of the folks on this board have said, in a nutshell, that a police force is unconstitutional and/or unnecessary.
It matters not, if the argument is credible. They have asserted it. I ask them to explain how these issues would be resolved without a Police force.
And yes, I agree with you, ALL Government entities require oversight.

 

[EventHorizon]

Well, those who feel a police force is unnecessary are as naive as those who feel guns are unnecessary because we have laws and a police force to enforce those laws.

 

[sharac]

I'm sorry to burst you bubble but POLICE is not about JUSTICE, POLICE are about wuf wuf catch that man...good doggie and courts and lawyers are the ones that "deal justice".

But to make it clear (again) policemen are not bad per se but fraternity and brotherly care you give to your bad apples leads to the conclusion that most of the policemen are inherently bad except not everyone had the opportunity to display bad. Its the impression you generate and i'm sure you know bad word reaches farther than good sentence...

Police/society discussion is not just on this micro level its about general concept of society. Is it a band of men joined in the common interest to grow and prosper or is it an enforced band of men where "needs of many FAR FAR outweigh the needs of one". Its simple really in principle but the shades in between make it too complicated to some to grasp. Facts are that division of responsibilities has benefited all however there has to be a system of checks and balances to prevent exploitation of those responsibilities (to make it simple 3 settlers in early 19 century delegate a protector role to one neighbor and give him all the guns and he is responsible for security works great as he watches over the 2 and the 2 have all the time in the world to either raise cattle or tend to the fields and all profit however... - what mechanism is in place to prevent him on turning onto his neighbors and expanding his property) and your grandgrandgrandparents had a good idea and an attempt to make a workable compromise between individual liberty and ability of a nation to prosper. As with everything things need to be constantly watched and monitored as they tend to degenerate and your fathers and particularly you were able to fuck it up in less than a century.
Many here smirk and feel like wtf is this european dude from shit hole bitching here well believe it or not things you see now and feel in the last few years we here felt and lived for ages. We were always more or less dominated by rulers of all colors and we've felt the touch of socialism and what it does to humans. We're so deep in this shit that it became almost genetic (you know why in the hell in the pot where Slovenians are cooking there are no devil guards to prevent people from escaping? Because at the moment someone tries to escape the pot others grab him and drag him back in...). Take it as a warning as we've been there and done that and make no mistake about it if you guys don't seriously start fixing things in a few decades perhaps devil guards will be all able to play dominoes and drink beer or whatever the fuck they do when on break.

 

[Veer_G]

Many here smirk and feel like wtf is this european dude from shit hole bitching here well believe it or not things you see now and feel in the last few years we here felt and lived for ages. We were always more or less dominated by rulers of all colors and we've felt the touch of socialism and what it does to humans. We're so deep in this shit that it became almost genetic (you know why in the hell in the pot where Slovenians are cooking there are no devil guards to prevent people from escaping? Because at the moment someone tries to escape the pot others grab him and drag him back in...). Take it as a warning as we've been there and done that and make no mistake about it if you guys don't seriously start fixing things in a few decades perhaps devil guards will be all able to play dominoes and drink beer or whatever the fuck they do when on break.

I'll bite. What the hell is a "devil guard"? Something in Slovene?

 

[Slapchop]

Here's a novel idea. Instead of arguing and going back and forth all day like idiots, how about we pay this thread http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...rt-my-nephew-wesley-please-read-pray-him.html a visit and offer some words of support for a fellow Hide member. He and his family could use it right about now.

 

[KYpatriot]

Who said that we don't need police? The purpose of the police is to prevent other men from violating my rights. The are supposed to be guarantors of my Constitutional and natural rights, not threats to them.

It is obvious why there is so much public pushback in the direction of law enforcement in this country, so obvious I would think it need not be explained, but apparently it isn't obvious enough to everyone.

There is backlash because we are living under an increasingly unConstitutional government that fear mongers to justify ever increasing police powers and ever decreasing personal liberty and we the people are wise to it. We know it and don't like it. Police are the enforcers, and the same badges arresting rapists are the same guys doing no-knock raids to serve warrants on non-violent offenders, the same badges insisting we register or turn in guns, the same badges enforcing partisan attacks via the IRS, the same badges with armored vehicles in small town America. Ever more restrictive laws in every aspect of life continue and those laws will be enforced by someone. Doesn't it stand to reason people will resent it? We have to go all the way to the Supreme Court to force law enforcement to understand they aren't supposed to track us without a warrant. A senator has to publicly shame the Attorney General to finally get him to say we won't use hellfire missiles from drones to enforce the law. Are these things supposed to give us a warm fuzzy about LE attitudes towards my liberty? Acts of kindness are awesome but we the people tasked you with defending liberty via the Constitution, and the clear indictment of public sentiment is that LE is failing that responsibility. How do we know which way an individual officer will go? If we are even asking that question haven't we already failed liberty 101?

The sheepdog analogy makes me want to puke but the fact that so many buy into it is indicative of what I am talking about. The most basic review of history will show who the real wolves are, and it isn't criminals or even terrorists that have destroyed tens of millions of lives in the last hundred years alone. Politicians see themselves as our parents and use the police as Dad's belt, and they are quick to resort to it anytime they feel we are not obeying. That's not their job, and that's not your job as police. The pols abuse their authority and are attempting, often succeeding, in using police to do it.

Police officers should be smart enough to discern the difference between the rapist who is angry at you for catching him and the righteous anger of a supposedly free people who are literally being pushed into choosing between remaining free or remaining law abiding. The Constitution was supposed to protect us from that choice, and those vested with special authorities are supposed to protect it above their boss. If the police want to regain the moral standing they used to enjoy, then stand with us in that struggle instead of saying "I'm just doing my job". The sheriffs in CO are a good example of this...and are being praised for it. The concept isn't hard. Actually doing it is hard, but without law enforcement the aims of anyone who would weaken our liberty cannot succeed. That's why the people are watching you. Don't play checkers in a chess game- this is about far more than stopping crime.

 

[sharac]

I'll bite. What the hell is a "devil guard"? Something in Slovene?

Use the thing called brains...

 

[fdkay]

So you are equating the local beat cop with the IRS, Eric Holder and the President of the United States?
You make the assumption that ALL cops are going to round up folks and put them in cattle cars on the way to the internment camp.

Do you know why they run no-knock warrants on your "non-violent" offenders that are selling meth to your schoolchildren?
Because we have to get in there before they flush their garbage down the toilet.

I suppose we could knock and politely ask that they hand over their meth. That doesn't normally work to well.

I DO understand the anger, I DO think that ANY overstepping of the bounds by law enforcement needs to be addresed by the public and by the media. I DO believe that the media should check BOTH sides of the story.
Of course lots of folks immediately jump to the conclusion that the cops are covering up, when in all actuality, they CAN NOT speak to specifics about a case under investigation until the investigation is complete.

You wish to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone BUT the police.
How about keeping an open mind, as I believe that no one is above the law.

Are there bad laws? Of course there are. The question is, what are you doing to change it?