Night Vision phenom? nox? pulsar? mh25? other?

[Totdoc]

I'm getting together some gear to start doing some hog hunting here in Florida. I currently have dual NVGs with a coti, and a PVS30 for my rifle.
I was considering getting a thermal scanner to look around with when the coti gets a thermal hit.
I had considered a HMT with a 14, but at the moment, I'm wanting to stick with my NVG/Coti combo, but at some point, I will pick up a second set of goggles for the wife, so anything is a possibility for the future...

For now, I think a scanner would be sufficient, with some idea that being able to weapon mount said thermal in the future would be nice...but not necessarily a required option.

I initially was considering a nox18. I like that it's small enough to pocket, which makes me think it would get carried along more often, even for non hunting nighttime walks. But since it's native 1x, I probably wouldn't add it to my rifle, and I don't see HMT in my near future, so I am wondering if I'd be better just getting something like a phenom for now, to get some nice imaging at a lower cost...especially since the current plan doesn't include HMT

If I'm considering the phenom, though, there's no real potential for other uses in the future. Which then made me wonder if I should look into the Nox35. Still a nice small scanner, which I really COULD see using weapon mounted at some point - and would be a TON lighter than my current PVS/scope combo.
Pulsar seems to have some nice options, too, but I don't know as much about them.

Finally - it seems like there are some great things happening with thermal these days, so if there is something else coming down the pipe in the near future, I could always be convinced to wait a bit.

What say the hive on this one?

 

[sheepdog697]

I have quite a bit of time behind the iray mh25(mostly hunting coyotes). Once you get the pvs14 eyepiece adapter it really is an amazing unit for the price. Image quality is great. You can even get the kvc bridge mount and run dual mh25s, or pair with a nice WP 14. The dual mh25s take some getting used to but its pretty cool.

I have some time behind a trijicon snipe-ir, so that is my only comparison. Image quality on the mh25 is significantly better imo. However, it is noted they are for two different roles. If you're only worried about filling the role of a scanner, I think the mh25 for around $4500 all said and done has a ton of value.

 

[Totdoc]

I wonder how the phenom and the mh25 compare as far as image quality goes... I believe the phenom uses the same sensor, doesn't it? I do like how small the mh25 is...

 

[upSLIDEdown]

Absolutely love my Nox18 HMT.

 

[sheepdog697]

Nox. BULLETPROOF WARRANTY and BADASSSSSSSSSSS product, BAE core, and top notch components from some of the best dudes in the industry.
Regards
Felipe Bastos
EliteUAS

Never used a NOX is image quality on par with the mh25?

 

[Crews]

Sounds like you obviously have more time to come up with more complicated schemes to spend more money than I do. So I will just leave this here....

You will kill more shit outdoors if there is a thermal on your gun.

 

[shoots100]

For under $4300 for the pair, the AGM TM15 384 spotter and Bering optics Super hogster scope are all you need to fulfill your thermal needs.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I love my nox 18. So versatile. I plan on getting a 35 as well. I'm pretty sure you can helmet mount the 35 as well for static scanning. I use my 18 on 2x quite a bit on my helmet you just have to close that eye if you start moving. Only downside is the weight. It's not horrible but I prefer pvs14/coti for long outings and the nox on a neck lanyard. On a rifle think of it more as a thermal red dot than scope. If your planning on hunting with it on a rifle I'd definitely go 35.

 

[sheepdog697]

I love my nox 18. So versatile. I plan on getting a 35 as well. I'm pretty sure you can helmet mount the 35 as well for static scanning. I use my 18 on 2x quite a bit on my helmet you just have to close that eye if you start moving. Only downside is the weight. It's not horrible but I prefer pvs14/coti for long outings and the nox on a neck lanyard. On a rifle think of it more as a thermal red dot than scope. If your planning on hunting with it on a rifle I'd definitely go 35.

What was the street price on your nox if you dont mind sharing?

 

[GreenMushroom]

I can't remember off the top of my head but It's definitely worth calling around. I'd start with the site sponsors here and on the ar15 site and I'm sure you'll find someone that can work with you.

 

[Jgunner]

I would say a nox35 but it will see wayyyyy past a coti and is my hmt and i flip my pvs up when scanning.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I've been using my 18 a lot on 2x to get a feel for what the 35 will be like helmet mounted and I'm pretty happy with it. I look through the nox while stopped and just squint my nox eye so the view from my 14 pops when I start walking again. I don't find it hard to look through both at once while standing still since the thermal box tends to dominate but I wouldn't recommend it while moving.

Op mentioned having binos so I'd think a 35 is the way for him if helmet mount or fast close shooting aren't priorities

 

[GreenMushroom]

I would say a nox35 but it will see wayyyyy past a coti and is my hmt and i flip my pvs up when scanning.

Realistically you need a coti/18/35/halo lr combo to cover all the bases. Anything less would be uncivilized.

 

[Lowdown3]

It's been a while since I was impressed with a thermal unit. Last time that happened was when the IR Patrol came out. Now it's the Nox.

Have not heard a single complaint from a customer on these yet. Great unit.

One day I'll be able to pry the phone out of my hands and get a chance to spend more time with mine.

 

[kirsch]

I wonder how the phenom and the mh25 compare as far as image quality goes... I believe the phenom uses the same sensor, doesn't it? I do like how small the mh25 is...

I haven't used the MH25 personally, but have extensive use with the Phenom. Yes, I believe both have an iRay 640 res 12 µm sensor so the image should be similar. You have a bigger objective so higher base mag on the Phenom and it is larger. For using on a helmet, the Phenom isn't really suited well for that.

If you hunt high humidity, the iRay sensors are amazing. My go to coyote setup is a Phenom for scanning and a Super Hogster for shooting.

 

[sheepdog697]

I haven't used the MH25 personally, but have extensive use with the Phenom. Yes, I believe both have an iRay 640 res 12 µm sensor so the image should be similar. You have a bigger objective so higher base mag on the Phenom and it is larger. For using on a helmet, the Phenom isn't really suited well for that.

If you hunt high humidity, the iRay sensors are amazing. My go to coyote setup is a Phenom for scanning and a Super Hogster for shooting.

I did not realize the phenom has the same sensor as the mh25.

 

[kirsch]

I did not realize the phenom has the same sensor as the mh25.

I do not know this 100% but I believe both use an iRay sensor, so most likely yes. Firmware is most likely different.

 

[GreenMushroom]

So I actually read your post a little more carefully. My wife accompanies me on all my larps. Is your wife pretty into it or just a once in a while thing? The setup my wife settled on is a single pvs14 and a nox on a neck lanyard. She doesn't like even the added weight of a coti or the added complication. She did take to the nox very quickly and I have to pry it away from her when I want to use it.

My initial thoughts had been to have identical setups but I've come around to thinking different setups that compliment each other is better. Right now we're thinking me with a pvs14/coti/nox18 and her with a nox35 and pvs14 with one of the 3x slip on magnifiers. She would have the 35 on a neck lanyard or rifle 99% of the time. We have everything but the 35 and it seems like it will be a very functional setup. Food for thought if your putting 2 puzzles instead of one.

 

[Totdoc]

Realistically you need a coti/18/35/halo lr combo to cover all the bases. Anything less would be uncivilized.

Well I certainly wouldn't want to be uncivilized!

 

[Totdoc]

So I actually read your post a little more carefully. My wife accompanies me on all my larps. Is your wife pretty into it or just a once in a while thing? The setup my wife settled on is a single pvs14 and a nox on a neck lanyard. She doesn't like even the added weight of a coti or the added complication. She did take to the nox very quickly and I have to pry it away from her when I want to use it.

My initial thoughts had been to have identical setups but I've come around to thinking different setups that compliment each other is better. Right now we're thinking me with a pvs14/coti/nox18 and her with a nox35 and pvs14 with one of the 3x slip on magnifiers. She would have the 35 on a neck lanyard or rifle 99% of the time. We have everything but the 35 and it seems like it will be a very functional setup. Food for thought if your putting 2 puzzles instead of one.

I've thought quite a bit about this... the honest truth is that until we both have gear to go out together, I don't know how in to it she'll be. I do know she won't be into hunting, but I know she'll love chasing cats around the neighborhood and looking at animals in the woods. She does love shooting, but only at targets. I'm sure she'd love shooting at night!
My thoughts on the thermal, though, is that it will be more helpful for me from the hunting side... although seeing little critters hiding in the brush is certainly something the wife would get a kick out of.
I like the idea of the pvs-nox on a bridge, but without knowing how our brains would handle it, I'm worried I'd just be buying a very expensive set of headache induction gear. I feel like starting with a scanner is probably best. Extra bonus if said scanner could also be mounted on a rifle. This is why the nox seems like a great idea. It seems like the nox 35 might be the best thing for a potential dual role there. I feel like the 18 would be awesome for the option of trying HMT, but I don't really need a thermal red dot... up close I suspect I'd just use my laser.
Decisions decisions...

 

[kirsch]

You could always go with a Hogster 35. Small enough for a good handheld scanner but works very well on a gun. Not a great option for helmet mounting, but if dual role is the desire, will allow this for way less money than a Nox.

 

[Jgunner]

I have been running a nox and a wp L3 for a while now. I can run both at the same time, but it gets to be annoying. So for looking for critters i use nox, for moving and getting a feel for the surroundings i use the pvs.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I have been running a nox and a wp L3 for a while now. I can run both at the same time, but it gets to be annoying. So for looking for critters i use nox, for moving and getting a feel for the surroundings i use the pvs.

For movement i have taken to using the white outline mode and when I pick up something I stop and switch to white hot and use the zoom. The white outline also seems to make using a laser easier.

 

[Jgunner]

For movement i have taken to using the white outline mode and when I pick up something I stop and switch to white hot and use the zoom. The white outline also seems to make using a laser easier.

Wh is how i run. Outline seems weird to me but i should try it. Out here, rocks and cactus all retain a lot of heat, so very busy looking at things that are not critters. Here pretty soon, going out at night will be useless, ill have to get up early morning when its still cool out.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I've thought quite a bit about this... the honest truth is that until we both have gear to go out together, I don't know how in to it she'll be. I do know she won't be into hunting, but I know she'll love chasing cats around the neighborhood and looking at animals in the woods. She does love shooting, but only at targets. I'm sure she'd love shooting at night!
My thoughts on the thermal, though, is that it will be more helpful for me from the hunting side... although seeing little critters hiding in the brush is certainly something the wife would get a kick out of.
I like the idea of the pvs-nox on a bridge, but without knowing how our brains would handle it, I'm worried I'd just be buying a very expensive set of headache induction gear. I feel like starting with a scanner is probably best. Extra bonus if said scanner could also be mounted on a rifle. This is why the nox seems like a great idea. It seems like the nox 35 might be the best thing for a potential dual role there. I feel like the 18 would be awesome for the option of trying HMT, but I don't really need a thermal red dot... up close I suspect I'd just use my laser.
Decisions decisions...

We started getting these devices at my wife's suggestion as insurance against the changing times so our needs are a bit different than yours. That being said we have had a blast using it. We are avid hikers and kayakers and and simply carried on with our daytime recreation at night. There's something about that feeling of strolling through the woods like we own it while everyone else is huddled around camp fires that makes us giggle. I don't want to try and offer too much advice on weapon mounted uses as we are not hunters and generally view shooting as a chore to maintain competence rather than as a recreational activity.

I have found with my wife simple and light = fun. I would definitely have your wife wear your binos extensively and make sure she is comfortable with the weight before moving forward. A single pvs14 on a bump cap with light counterweight and 4d pads is what my wife ended up being comfortable with. As far as thermal goes it has made the whole experience feel much safer for her. This allows her to spot the bear/cougar/monsters/rapists that lurk behind every bush. She wears the nox on a lanyard most of the time. She has poor vision in one eye but just bumps her 14 out of the way and pops the nox up to her eye. This setup would be even easier for your wife since she can just use it on her other eye. She probably won't like running it bridged with a 14. I find that setup a bit heavy and I'm a pretty big guy.

 

[deersniper]

Realistically you need a coti/18/35/halo lr combo to cover all the bases. Anything less would be uncivilized.

Sounds like poors.

Need
Ecoti/SkeetIRx/LWTS-LR

 

[Cypress87]

Nox35 seems like the best jack of all trades..

 

[GreenMushroom]

Botach says they has the lwts-lr in stock.....should I send them my credit card #?

 

[MarinePMI]

I love my nox 18. So versatile. I plan on getting a 35 as well. I'm pretty sure you can helmet mount the 35 as well for static scanning. I use my 18 on 2x quite a bit on my helmet you just have to close that eye if you start moving. Only downside is the weight. It's not horrible but I prefer pvs14/coti for long outings and the nox on a neck lanyard. On a rifle think of it more as a thermal red dot than scope. If your planning on hunting with it on a rifle I'd definitely go 35.

Yes, the Nox35 is helmet mountable.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Wh is how i run. Outline seems weird to me but i should try it. Out here, rocks and cactus all retain a lot of heat, so very busy looking at things that are not critters. Here pretty soon, going out at night will be useless, ill have to get up early morning when its still cool out.

We're running into summer problems too. I work an early schedule and with it staying light so late its jacking with my sleep patterns. I think my gears going to go on the shelf except for a few outings until the fall. We haven't done night kayaking yet so we gotta fit that in.

For me the white hot works great if its clear with a moon or there's supplemental light and under those conditions i have no issues running both eyes open. I try not to use ir unless I'm having a look at something so when its cloudy which it often is here the thermal box dominates my vew. The white outline seems to mitigate the box effect and at least for me blends seamlessly with my 14 in these poorer conditions. There are a lot of lines but to me its very easy to pick out living things from the clutter. Hot rocks will probably be an issue but if your mostly going in the morning its worth giving a try.

Have you played with the brightness settings much? I'm still running the factory settings. Being buried in a menu I look at brightness as a set it and forget it thing.

 

[Evolution 9]

Botach says they has the lwts-lr in stock.....should I send them my credit card #?

I know where one is in stock if you’re interested.

 

[deersniper]

I have a used one if ya need one

 

[GreenMushroom]

Botach joke. I'm sure its amazing but a lot of money and heavy. All kidding aside we probably won't get a halo lr either. We live in a jungle and stuff like the 18, 35, and lasers is where its at for us.

 

[Totdoc]

Botach joke. I'm sure its amazing but a lot of money and heavy. All kidding aside we probably won't get a halo lr either. We live in a jungle and stuff like the 18, 35, and lasers is where its at for us.

Where abouts are you located?

 

[GreenMushroom]

Sw Wa near the mountain

 

[Travis224]

I have both the nox35 and halo 50x. Main use for normal or early coyote season, the nox is getting used. The 50x is amazing too, but big, heavy, and that but of extra magnification makes it my late season rig for longer shots

 

[Jgunner]

We're running into summer problems too. I work an early schedule and with it staying light so late its jacking with my sleep patterns. I think my gears going to go on the shelf except for a few outings until the fall. We haven't done night kayaking yet so we gotta fit that in.

For me the white hot works great if its clear with a moon or there's supplemental light and under those conditions i have no issues running both eyes open. I try not to use ir unless I'm having a look at something so when its cloudy which it often is here the thermal box dominates my vew. The white outline seems to mitigate the box effect and at least for me blends seamlessly with my 14 in these poorer conditions. There are a lot of lines but to me its very easy to pick out living things from the clutter. Hot rocks will probably be an issue but if your mostly going in the morning its worth giving a try.

Have you played with the brightness settings much? I'm still running the factory settings. Being buried in a menu I look at brightness as a set it and forget it thing.

Yeah, i am on the lowest setting of brightness and have a filter. Ill dim the l3 way down, try to pair them. If the ambient light changes then i just adjust to cope. I can run both at the same time, but switching eyes all the time(mentally) just seems excessive. Coyotes are not running around with light or ir light, so i dont need nv to see them, but navigating in the pitch darknis easier with nv more than thermal. When i switch to black hot on the thermal it makes it easier to navigate, but its no pvs.

driving with both on is the dumbest thing ive tried. Switching eyes made my reaction slow, but i think i would try black hot and see if that helps.

 

[RockFarmer]

I've been using my 18 a lot on 2x to get a feel for what the 35 will be like helmet mounted and I'm pretty happy with it. I look through the nox while stopped and just squint my nox eye so the view from my 14 pops when I start walking again. I don't find it hard to look through both at once while standing still since the thermal box tends to dominate but I wouldn't recommend it while moving.

Op mentioned having binos so I'd think a 35 is the way for him if helmet mount or faclose shooting aren't priorities

Are you still running the Nox 18 w/ the 14? I'm trying to learn everything I can about that setup. I ultimately plan to get a Nox 35 as WMT and also similar usage to the OP, but trying to determine versatility of the 18.

 

[Dogtown]

Two years, not bad but that’s necropost rookie numbers.

 

[RockFarmer]

@Dogtown...haha, I'm so ignorantly green here, I think I follow but barely.

I'm still wondering:
What are the chances someone chimes in here?
Is it appropiate/inappropriate to resurrect old threads?

 

[GreenMushroom]

Are you still running the Nox 18 w/ the 14? I'm trying to learn everything I can about that setup. I ultimately plan to get a Nox 35 as WMT and also similar usage to the OP, but trying to determine versatility of the 18.

I run the nox with a 14 occasionally to stay in practice but mostly run it on a rifle with a coti on my head. I've shot it out to 200yds and it could go further but you're not going to be able to ID very well at those distances. I carry a magnified thermal on my belt for ID. That's ass backwards compared to how most people do it but works well in my environment.

If you're looking for a straight helmet mount and aren't in a hurry I'd wait to see what the deal is on the 640 breach thing that's coming out. That with a ufwp 14 and a nox35 on your rifle covers a lot of bases.

 

[Dogtown]

What are the chances someone chimes in here?
Is it appropiate/inappropriate to resurrect old threads?

It’s all good, just manage your expectations

 

[RockFarmer]

I run the nox with a 14 occasionally to stay in practice but mostly run it on a rifle with a coti on my head. I've shot it out to 200yds and it could go further but you're not going to be able to ID very well at those distances. I carry a magnified thermal on my belt for ID. That's ass backwards compared to how most people do it but works well in my environment.

If you're looking for a straight helmet mount and aren't in a hurry I'd wait to see what the deal is on the 640 breach thing that's coming out. That with a ufwp 14 and a nox35 on your rifle covers a lot of bases.

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful!

I'm not in a rush, but was not aware of the upcoming 640 Breach thing. I did read enough to look beyond the existing Breach. Any chance you could direct me to more info on this? I am not finding anything upon a quick search.

Its not common for me to find a 200yd+ shot where I hunt so I am wondering if I can get away with a Nox18 (or 1x 640 Breach) initially for 50-200yd

I am positive I want both a WMT and a scanner/hmt but it will have to happen in stages budget-wise. I am a buy once, cru once sort. If there is an upcoming 1x 640 that improves on the Nox18 I may opt for a Nox35 initially to wait for the new 1x possibility.

If the

 

[Rerun7]

I run a Nox18 and a 14 dual bridged. What’s the question?

 

[RockFarmer]

It’s all good, just manage your expectations

Gotcha man. Fun stuff. Glad to be on here.

 

[shoobe01]

Sigh. I have just been thinking (as I lightweight everything else) how heavy my NOX18 is. Otherwise lovely, but heavy. The 640-Breach is going to make me poor, isn't it?

Anyway, as far as the OPs question (I know it was long ago, but still) on a pocketscope (why do you all call these "scanners" like you are in some old Sci Fi movie?) this is by no means my first thermal, and I find it extremely tedious to try to look about with anything but 1x. YMMV but I am very happy looking for stuff with (say) the NOX then going to another optic, or the rifle depending, to see what I am looking at. Esp once we got to 640 cores, that lets you ID all bigger than bunnies to as much as 200 yds, and detect possible targets to as much as 800 (depending on conditions, concealment).

Yes, multiple optics get expensive. If only germanium glass wasn't so expensive! For my previous pocketscope I had a clip on 3x magnifier and it was nice to pop that on to ID targets a bit further out (I got it in trade but it was $1,600 retail for the magnifier ALONE!)

 

[RockFarmer]

Sigh. I have just been thinking (as I lightweight everything else) how heavy my NOX18 is. Otherwise lovely, but heavy. The 640-Breach is going to make me poor, isn't it?

Anyway, as far as the OPs question (I know it was long ago, but still) on a pocketscope (why do you all call these "scanners" like you are in some old Sci Fi movie?) this is by no means my first thermal, and I find it extremely tedious to try to look about with anything but 1x. YMMV but I am very happy looking for stuff with (say) the NOX then going to another optic, or the rifle depending, to see what I am looking at. Esp once we got to 640 cores, that lets you ID all bigger than bunnies to as much as 200 yds, and detect possible targets to as much as 800 (depending on conditions, concealment).

Yes, multiple optics get expensive. If only germanium glass wasn't so expensive! For my previous pocketscope I had a clip on 3x magnifier and it was nice to pop that on to ID targets a bit further out (I got it in trade but it was $1,600 retail for the magnifier ALONE!)

Is there any info out there on the 640 Breach? I have been strongly considering the Nox18 but would like to find out what to expect out of the updated Breach before I buy anything.

 

[Dogtown]

Sigh. I have just been thinking (as I lightweight everything else) how heavy my NOX18 is. Otherwise lovely, but heavy. The 640-Breach is going to make me poor, isn't it?

Yet here I am trying to figure out if it’s worth it to bridge a NOX 18 with my PVS-14 or is that just going to make me want to run dual NOX?

 

[GreenMushroom]

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful!

I'm not in a rush, but was not aware of the upcoming 640 Breach thing. I did read enough to look beyond the existing Breach. Any chance you could direct me to more info on this? I am not finding anything upon a quick search.

Its not common for me to find a 200yd+ shot where I hunt so I am wondering if I can get away with a Nox18 (or 1x 640 Breach) initially for 50-200yd

I am positive I want both a WMT and a scanner/hmt but it will have to happen in stages budget-wise. I am a buy once, cru once sort. If there is an upcoming 1x 640 that improves on the Nox18 I may opt for a Nox35 initially to wait for the new 1x possibility.

If the

It's from armasight. Not sure if it's released yet. Don't think it can be used as a stand alone like the nox but might be able to be used as a clip-on.

Unless you live in very dense terrain I'd recommend getting some base mag for your wmt. If you have a 1x helmet mount and a 1x weapon mount your ability to pid will suffer. Basically you want a 1x and base mag and since you have to run a 1x on your helmet you end up with the base mag on your rifle.

For reference I live here. If you don't live somewhere like that you'd be better off with a nox35.

 

[shoobe01]

Yet here I am trying to figure out if it’s worth it to bridge a NOX 18 with my PVS-14 or is that just going to make me want to run dual NOX?

Oh I don't get the dual-thermal people at all. Maybe it's good for sitting still and spotting but for walking around, thermal can make things look odd so it is very helpful to have an image intensified view also.

I like my bridged setup... a lot.