Night Vision Photonis Echo tubes

[adamjma]

After a fair bit of research the Photonis Echo tubes seem like a good value proposition for me. I'm looking for a monocular that doesn't break the bank, and I'm in Canuckistan (home of the looming gun ban!) so that means I am part of the unwashed masses that ITAR hates. So please do not tell me to get a Gen 3 tube. Thanks!

Do the autogating Photonis Echo tubes whine audibly? Presumably the autogating is worth it on the tubes?

Undecided between green or white phosphor. I read someplace that the green phosphor tubes have better specs - how would an amber filtered green phosphor tube compare to a white phosphor tube all else equal? The Act In Black amber filter looks nice - any thoughts?

No interest in the Intens tubes as I just don't want to spend that kind of $$ and it seems to me that a couple of blems in zones 2 and 3 aren't a big deal (assuming I can see where they are before buying). Hell, I have a couple of super annoying floaters in my eyes already and I can still shoot!

Anything I should keep in mind when I start looking at spec sheets beyond SNR and resolution?

Thanks!

 

[WhereNow&How]

The Photonis Echo's are pretty good value for the money. They do better than Gen 3 in high light environments and poorer in dark wooded forest, but a good helmet illuminator pretty much makes all intensifier tubes (Echo, Thin Filmed, Filmless) equal in super dark environments.

And while a high spec filmless Gen 3 WP tube can see better in really dark environments, can it truly see good enough. There always reach's a point where you have to add supplemental IR light to make any of them perform.

Never heard any complaints about Photonis Echo's whining. I would probably go with the White Phosphor Echo tube. I would also use Sure Shot Night Visions SNR (Signal Noise Reduction) filter way before anything else. That filter will get rid of a significant amount of Scintillation and improve what you can actually recognize.

Try to find one with the lowest EBI you can find. That will really help it in dark environments.

 

[adamjma]

Thanks @WhereNow&How for the information. Not at all familiar with the Sure Shot Night Visions SNR (Signal Noise Reduction) filter so I'll do some looking into that.

Being stranded on the wrong side of ITAR is no fun at all.

 

[sheepdog697]

One thing to note when looking at the EBI listed on a Photonis tube it is not the same as L3 or Harris. I THINK You'll need to move the decimal to the right on place. Im sure someone here can correct me if im wrong. A friend of mine got a photonis tube that had an EBI of .09. I couldnt believe it then he explained to me it was actually a .9 in Harris/Elbeit or L3 comparison.

EX: Photonis EBI of .15 is the same as a Harris having an EBI of 1.5.

 

[adamjma]

Thanks for that bit of information @sheepdog697

Not sure I'll be looking at many other tubes to be honest.

 

[matman1]

Does anyone know where to got Intens or Echo Tubes? It seems that allot of people have switched to Gen 3 tubes.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Does anyone know where to got Intens or Echo Tubes? It seems that allot of people have switched to Gen 3 tubes.

We had several INTENS a few months ago. Photonis was quoting unGodly lead times for any new PO's.

 

[matman1]

We had several INTENS a few months ago. Photonis was quoting unGodly lead times for any new PO's.

I’m guessing you don’t have any more left? Also what type of specs were you seeing on them especially gain?

 

[ljstack]

For Photonis Tubes and Photonis Night Vision Goggles please go to http://www.photonisdefense.com (https://www.photonisdefense.com/products/night-vision) and ask for a quote. We'll send you to the right distributor. Also, check out our own line of 16mm and 18mm Hybrid (it has a different power supply) based Night Vision Goggles. Our 16mm PD-PRO line are smaller and lighter than their 18mm based counterparts with the same performance. The PD PRO line only comes with 16mm 4G image intensifier tubes. - except for the PD-PRO-Q our Quad Goggle which has four18mm Hybrid 4G tubes. All Photonis tubes are filmless. The reason they are filmless is that we don't use GaAs coatings (what Gen 3 basically means) which often require an ion barrier film to prevent rapid degradation of the GaAs coatings. Photonis tubes should be readily available from your distributors.

 

[matman1]

For Photonis Tubes and Photonis Night Vision Goggles please go to http://www.photonisdefense.com (https://www.photonisdefense.com/products/night-vision) and ask for a quote. We'll send you to the right distributor. Also, check out our own line of 16mm and 18mm Hybrid (it has a different power supply) based Night Vision Goggles. Our 16mm PD-PRO line are smaller and lighter than their 18mm based counterparts with the same performance. The PD PRO line only comes with 16mm 4G image intensifier tubes. - except for the PD-PRO-Q our Quad Goggle which has four18mm Hybrid 4G tubes. All Photonis tubes are filmless. The reason they are filmless is that we don't use GaAs coatings (what Gen 3 basically means) which often require an ion barrier film to prevent rapid degradation of the GaAs coatings. Photonis tubes should be readily available from your distributors.

Now that Photonis has their own branded housings. Is there any chance of the glass output window tubes and compatible optics/housings to making their way over to the US? As from what I understand you should get ~15% more gain + ~20% less mtf loss from the fiber optic inverter. I'm also curious about housings with faster than the standard f/1.2 aperture such as the Thales Bonnie HP. Is there any chance of seeing something like that in the US?

 

[ljstack]

Now that Photonis has their own branded housings. Is there any chance of the glass output window tubes and compatible optics/housings to making their way over to the US? As from what I understand you should get ~15% more gain + ~20% less mtf loss from the fiber optic inverter. I'm also curious about housings with faster than the standard f/1.2 aperture such as the Thales Bonnie HP. Is there any chance of seeing something like that in the US?

I'm not quite sure what you mean with your question. Our PD PRO line is only sold in the USA. It is possible to obtain customized front objective lenses, however for a one off pair I'm not sure you'd want to pay the price tag.

 

[matman1]

I'm not quite sure what you mean with your question. Our PD PRO line is only sold in the USA. It is possible to obtain customized front objective lenses, however for a one off pair I'm not sure you'd want to pay the price tag.

I'm referring to the existing Thales housings that uses photonis glass out tubes (non fiber optic inverted) there's many advantages to that format, however it has never really made its way to the US.

 

[ljstack]

The PD-PRO line of 16mm goggles is fairly similar to Thales O-NYX night vision goggles in terms of performance. With that said, our 16mm and 18mm image intensifier 4G tubes that we use in the US use twisted fiber, and we don't plan on bringing 18 or 16mm glass into the US simply because it increases the price of NODS that are already at the limits of most consumers. With that said, we are working on something even better for the US consumer in conjunction with the US Government. Can't say what it is, but I can tell you that its been pretty spectacular in testing. I hope that explanation helps.

 

[matman1]

The PD-PRO line of 16mm goggles is fairly similar to Thales O-NYX night vision goggles in terms of performance. With that said, our 16mm and 18mm image intensifier 4G tubes that we use in the US use twisted fiber, and we don't plan on bringing 18 or 16mm glass into the US simply because it increases the price of NODS that are already at the limits of most consumers. With that said, we are working on something even better for the US consumer in conjunction with the US Government. Can't say what it is, but I can tell you that its been pretty spectacular in testing. I hope that explanation helps.

That's unfortunate that glass output tubes won't be coming into the US.

Will what you're working on with the US Government be available for the civilian market? Also any rough timelines on when to expect something special?

 

[ljstack]

That's unfortunate that glass output tubes won't be coming into the US.

Will what you're working on with the US Government be available for the civilian market? Also any rough timelines on when to expect something special?

It's not so much the tubes as it is that the entire system has to be designed around them. On the timelines we'll have a better idea after next April, and yes it'll be available to the civilian market. By the way, on "glass" I'm speaking specifically about use in our consumer/military oriented night vision goggle systems. Any image intensifier we make can be ordered, and we make quite a few custom ones, however if you do that and place them into a housing with optics not designed for them, then the performance may not be what you want it to be. So, its not that glass output tubes aren't available in the US, we just don't plan (yet) to have them available for the systems we (Photonis Defense) currently have in the US.

 

[matman1]

It's not so much the tubes as it is that the entire system has to be designed around them. On the timelines we'll have a better idea after next April, and yes it'll be available to the civilian market.

Awesome. I'll keep an eye out. Please let us know timelines come April!

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Look up Low Light Innovations. They sell a $25 amber filter that changed my green PVS14. No more eye strain.

 

[matman1]

Look up Low Light Innovations. They sell a $25 amber filter that changed my green PVS14. No more eye strain.

I’m not sure how that’s relevant?

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I’m not sure how that’s relevant?

 

[matman1]

View attachment 7765430

Ah you’re replying to the post from 1.5 years ago not the recent stuff

 

[matman1]

It's not so much the tubes as it is that the entire system has to be designed around them. On the timelines we'll have a better idea after next April, and yes it'll be available to the civilian market. By the way, on "glass" I'm speaking specifically about use in our consumer/military oriented night vision goggle systems. Any image intensifier we make can be ordered, and we make quite a few custom ones, however if you do that and place them into a housing with optics not designed for them, then the performance may not be what you want it to be. So, its not that glass output tubes aren't available in the US, we just don't plan (yet) to have them available for the systems we (Photonis Defense) currently have in the US.

Hey I was wondering if you have any updates on the US government project that will also be available for the civilian market?

 

[ljstack]

We continue to work with SOCOM on refining the future requirements and specifications for the system. The initial prototypes have demonstrated that the performance technology is possible using an advanced image intensifier tube unlike anything currently fielded. It'll still be a while before these are commercially available.

 

[matman1]

We continue to work with SOCOM on refining the future requires and specifications for the system. The initial prototypes have demonstrated that the performance technology is possible using an advanced image intensifier tube unlike anything currently fielded. It'll still be a while before these are commercially available.

Awesome. I assume this is some type of SWIR setup/something sensitive in the 13-1800nm range, but I understand you can't talk about it. I look forward to learning more about it. Please keep us updated!