Night Vision Photonis PD-Pro-B review

[zinny]

So if you were following Eliteuas' thread, the first batch arrived this week and Fedex delivered it just in time for the new moon this Saturday!

First impression, they certainly nailed the presentation. It came in this massive SKB case and quite a few accessories including counter weights+ pouch, sacrifical filters, and more.

Coffee mug is for scale and not included...

The first thing you notice about the unit is definetly its size, I've played with many different NVGs/Housings (DTNVG/DTNVS, PVS31A, RNVG, and MOD3) and these are without a doubt the most compact unit Ive handled.

A quick comparison of size between a couple units

When I ordered the PD-PRO-Bs the intention was to do a direct comparision with a set of PVS-31As. Sadly I've since let go of the 31As, but did snap photos when I had them.

Note: its a cheap $10 kitchen scale, im not sure actual weight is accurate as its not certified, but am confident in it determining relative weight.

Getting into the nuts of it, went out with a couple of buddies last night during the new moon in woods. So there was no illumination except starlight. The photos were taken at places more than a few hundred yards away from artificial light. Photonis PD-Pro-B on the left and L3 24UA tubes (tubes were as nice as the ones in the 31As I had) on the right.

Buddy at about 50yrds

Buddy at about 25 yrds

Photos were taken with a Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra. I did not tweak the settings, just selected the photo tab and snapped pics. This left the phone to select the appropriate setting. So with this in mind, the pics are slightly different from "to the eye" and of course its always hard to compare photos in general to "to the eye".

To the eye, the photonis set did not have as high of a gain as the L3 did; they appered not as "bright" side by side. So if you were to just go by this initial quick 5 sec look thru; many would say the photonis was just not as good.

But, although the photonis is not as bright, the level of detail/definition (which the photos illustrate) is not much lower. Like how eyes after a period of time adapts to the dark, the lower gain does not equate to far lower performance. I would describe the photonis set as similar in picture to tubes with manual gain turned down. While I can say L3 is still the best at low light performance, these photonis tubes doesnt seem to be far off. In high light of course thats where the photonis set shined.

I didnt take photos of high light enviroments, but in situations where the L3 was showing temp burns (thus I didnt want to hold the tube there to snap a pic) the photonis was chugging along just fine.

Final thoughts: These are the only set of binos I was able to fit into a Raine PVS-14 Padded case (31As included) or for that matter my pants pockets( which was kind of a "whoa!" moment). These are the only metal articulating binos option on the market and I've have no doubt, like RNVGs, they are built like a tank(yet lighter than 31As). So if stowability and ruggedness are important, these bino fit the bill. Horta was right lol. From a commercial standpoint If you live somewhere where the popuation density is meaured in miles, the nearest street lamp is not in view, its your first set of binos and all you want it pure low light performance; these are not for you. But for those who are in suburban or urban environments, I think these binos are great. Not to mention a Gucci bug out bag.

 

[TheHorta]

Send to Horta. Horta compare to 31A's.

 

[Choid]

Honestly, if that is lowest light performance, they really don't give much up. Better than I'd have guessed.

 

[zinny]

Just for a quick reference, those are 24UM 2400+ fom tubes in the L3 correct?.. whereas the Photonis Pro B binos Zinny Received are right at 2100 fom.

Sorry correction UA not UM. These are mid 2500 fom tubes.
Absolutely on the review. I think every tube type (filmed G3, filmess G3, G"2+" photonis) all have pros and cons. When you put them into housings and optics, further pros and cons arise. Depending on your needs, there isn't always a one size fit all solution. For beginners there are safe bets, but thats not the end of it

 

[TheHorta]

The size is epic. Sometimes, good things do come in small packages.

 

[cschastain2]

Nice

 

[WhereNow&How]

The size is epic. Sometimes, good things do come in small packages.

Tell a woman that.

 

[TheHorta]

Tell a woman that.

I was thinking that as I typed, fellow pervert.

 

[Jgunner]

No coffee cup included? I’m out.


Side note: is your buddy wearing a skirt?

 

[Jgunner]

Bruh skirts are so 2008.. it’s a too-too

Tactical too-too. I need it. Do these nods come with one? My cc is in hand(don’t let me down).

 

[Jgunner]

Dude I will get you whatever fucking color too-too you want if you order a set. Even if it’s rainbow
No discrimination on my end if you want to prance around in the wilderness at night showing your True colors my friend!

Atacs-au, the only camo.....well, in az.

 

[stefan73]

The size is epic. Sometimes, good things do come in small packages.

That's not what she said

 

[JKGTR]

A few questions:
-Adjustable gain?
-Will they accept battery pack and if so, what kind?
-Ocular And Diopter adjustments? One of the things I liked about the 31's was the convenience of only having one adjustment.

 

[Choid]

A few questions:
-Adjustable gain?
-Will they accept battery pack and if so, what kind?
-Ocular And Diopter adjustments? One of the things I liked about the 31's was the convenience of only having one adjustment.

Looks like adjustable diopter for sure, and I think I read that it can take an optional battery pack. No idea on gain.

 

[WhereNow&How]

That's not what she said

Here's what She Said.

 

[Totdoc]

So... if you were looking to buy your first set of duals, would you go for these or a set of 31a's? Curious since you've owned both and you have had some time to play with these for a while now...

 

[TianTian]

Very nice little bino.
What kind of tube are inside the Pro B? With only 2100 fom, Echo, 4G ?

 

[TianTian]

Just wanted to compare with the similar bino we have in France.
Here they come with 4g from 1800 to 2300 fom and with 4g+ from 2300 to 3000. But only for military.

 

[ljstack]

Just wanted to compare with the similar bino we have in France.
Here they come with 4g from 1800 to 2300 fom and with 4g+ from 2300 to 3000. But only for military.

The answer is that whatever FOM tubes that are made in France can be obtained here. Our PD PRO line comes with 16mm 4G tubes. We do not use the "+" designation in the US, therefore when we say "4G" it also includes 4G+. The definition of 4G+ in the EU for 18mm tubes means 2300 FOM or better. The definition of 4G in the EU for 18mm tubes means a FOM of 1800 or better, but typically it's around 2200.

 

[TheHorta]

@ljstack

Quick question: The new Theon units that EOTech is about to start selling in the USA, are those equipped Photonis tubes?

Has Photonis adopted the “2376 MIN FOM” moniker as well?

 

[ljstack]

The Theon/EOTech 16's do indeed have Photonis 16mm tubes and we welcome them to the Photonis world of tubes. We're happy to see that EOTech has seen the light, so to speak, and has finally embraced Photonis technology. The main difference, or one of the differences between our PD PRO line and anyone else is that our systems are designed by Photonis from the ground up to work with Photonis tubes. What I mean by that is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. If you ever want a demo, bring your NODS to our plant and compare them side by side with our PD PRO or Hyper/Vyper line of NODS.

We have not adopted the 2376 MIN FOM moniker for 16mm tubes. Within Photonis Defense 18mm 4G means a low end FOM of 1800 with a typical FOM of 2200 or higher; and 18mm 4G+ means 2300 FOM or higher. We don't use the "plus" designation in the US, therefore 18mm 4G tubes sold in the USA will mean a typical FOM of 2200 or higher. With 16mm the typical 4G FOM will be 2000 or higher.

 

[ljstack]

So... if you were looking to buy your first set of duals, would you go for these or a set of 31a's? Curious since you've owned both and you have had some time to play with these for a while now...

If you haven't decided yet, because the PD-PRO-16M's are so small I recommend going to Eliteuas and look at two bridged Mono's. That way you essentially have a Bino and the total weight will be still be low, however you'll have a redundant system comprised of 2 Mono's. In a pinch you could hand one of them to a buddy in case you both needed to bug out and he didn't have a NOD.

 

[French1966]

I’m slightly upset that every vendor lists these units as 12oz, yet they are almost 4 ounces heavier.

Any particular reason for this @Eliteuas ? Thanks for posting weight. Unfortunately I just bought a set thinking they were 12oz (main selling point for me)

 

[zinny]

They have a magnesium version which come in at that weight, but it's alot more expensive as well.

I’m slightly upset that every vendor lists these units as 12oz, yet they are almost 4 ounces heavier.

Any particular reason for this @Eliteuas ? Thanks for posting weight. Unfortunately I just bought a set thinking they were 12oz (main selling point for me)

 

[WhereNow&How]

Antonin Scalia Quotes

"A man who has made no enemies is probably not..." - Antonin Scalia quotes from BrainyQuote.com

www.brainyquote.com

 

[GBMaryland]

One of the things that has always been interesting to me is that photonis refuses to sell any of their high-end intens/milspec systems in the US market at a competitive rate.

The reality is that a set using their high-end tubes would perform very nicely against a normal WP L3. The US tubes definitely have better contrast, but it would be very close.

however, it seems that the Europeans don’t want to have to sell their high-end tubes at medium prices in the United States in order to complete… though they would definitely be able to sell a number of tubes with competitive prices. (They seem much more interested in selling Echo tubes as opposed to higher end tubes… as if they are using the US market to sell under performing tubes.)

 

[ljstack]

They have a magnesium version which come in at that weight, but it's alot more expensive as well.

One of the things that has always been interesting to me is that photonis refuses to sell any of their high-end intens/milspec systems in the US market at a competitive rate.

The reality is that a set using their high-end tubes would perform very nicely against a normal WP L3. The US tubes definitely have better contrast, but it would be very close.

however, it seems that the Europeans don’t want to have to sell their high-end tubes at medium prices in the United States in order to complete… though they would definitely be able to sell a number of tubes with competitive prices. (They seem much more interested in selling Echo tubes as opposed to higher end tubes… as if they are using the US market to sell under performing tubes.)

 

[ljstack]

Photonis sells all of their type tubes in the US market - we no longer make the INTENS tube, that was phased out years ago. The highest spec Photonis tubes are our 18mm "Ultimate" tube which are very thin and are pared with a CMOS to produce true digital night vision with better performance than analog tubes by themselves. They have just finished testing in the US. They have exceptionally high FOM, high gain, plus all of the other features of Photonis tubes (highest contrast, lowest halo, fastest auto-gating, very wide dynamic range, and high light resolution). They are, in fact, the best tubes on the planet, however they're not designed to fit into standard housings because they're so thin - in other words they are designed for digital night vision and no one has made a housing for them yet to be used as a straight analog system.

Even these tubes are offered in the US market, however, they are specialized tubes and you have to know about them in order to get one. Even if you know about them we have to approve the purchase, as they are not advertised on our website, nor are they carried by distributors. They are made very specifically, for now, for specialized usage for specialized platforms, and someday they will find their way into the mass commercial market.

We just completed a strategic night vision seminar where we invited all of our distributors and a slew of high ranking civilians to discuss night vision advancements and where we're going into the future - one of the products showcased was the digital night vision camera developed for the special warfare community. The completed unit is about the same size as a standard 18mm image intensifier tube and the performance is nothing short of spectacular even under overcast starlight conditions. So digital night vision has finally arrived, however the price point isn't where it needs to be quite yet.

I see on our website that the weight of PD-PRO-16B lists the weight as less than 490 grams and less than 12 ounces. Obviously one of those in incorrect. The correct weight is less than 490 grams or a tad under 17.2 ounces with battery. That information will be corrected and thanks for pointing out the error. The magnesium version of PD-PRO-16B is 15.9 ounces (with battery).

All distributors have the latest marketing materials and we double checked those and all of those are correct. If you have any questions that our distributors can't answer then please reach out directly via our website.

 

[rlsmith1]

Photonis sells all of their type tubes in the US market - we no longer made the INTENS tube, that was phased out years ago. The highest spec Photonis tubes are our 18mm "Ultimate" tube which are very thin and are pared with a CMOS to produce true digital night vision with better performance than analog tubes by themselves. They have just finished testing in the US. They have exceptionally high FOM, high gain, plus all of the other features of Photonis tubes (highest contrast, lowest halo, fastest auto-gating, very wide dynamic range, and high light resolution). They are, in fact, the best tubes on the planet, however they're not designed to fit into standard housings because they're so thin - in other words they are designed for digital night vision and no one has made a housing for them yet to be used as a straight analog system.

Even these tubes are offered in the US market, however, they are specialized tubes and you have to know about them in order to get one. Even if you know about them we have to approve the purchase, as they are not advertised on our website, nor are they carried by distributors. They are made very specifically, for now, for specialized usage for specialized platforms, and someday they will find their way into the mass commercial market.

We just completed a strategic night vision seminar where we invited all of our distributors and a slew of high ranking civilians to discuss night vision advancements and where we're going into the future - one of the products showcased was the digital night vision camera developed for the special warfare community. The completed unit is about the same size as a standard 18mm image intensifier tube and the performance is nothing short of spectacular even under overcast starlight conditions. So digital night vision has finally arrived, however the price point isn't where it needs to be quite yet.

I see on our website that the weight of PD-PRO-16B lists the weight as less than 490 grams and less than 12 ounces. Obviously one of those in incorrect. The correct weight is less than 490 grams or a tad under 17.2 ounces with battery. That information will be corrected and thanks for pointing out the error. The magnesium version of PD-PRO-16B is 15.9 ounces (with battery).

All distributors have the latest marketing materials and we double checked those and all of those are correct. If you have any questions that our distributors can't answer then please reach out directly via our website.

This is exciting news and will look forward to more. Do you expect to have more information come out at SHOT? If you don't mind me asking, what is the weight of a bino system with these new tubes in them?

 

[GBMaryland]

Note that the Intens is no longer made, but that he didn’t indicate what the current 18mm part Is…

…it’s not the digital.

 

[rlsmith1]

Note that the Intens is no longer made, but that he didn’t indicate what the current 18mm part Is…

…it’s not the digital.

Yeah a digital / analog combination system should be interesting and provide some great capabilities above and beyond just light amplification (ATAK integration etc.). For pure light amplification, I would imagine L3 will continue to hold that title for a long time. I could be wrong if there is a new approach though...

 

[GBMaryland]

So what is the current night vision intensification part for 18 mm tubes top-of-the-line from Photonis?

If any of use wanted a WP current version of what was once called the “Intens+,” what would we order?

 

[French1966]

They have a magnesium version which come in at that weight, but it's alot more expensive as

Photonis sells all of their type tubes in the US market - we no longer made the INTENS tube, that was phased out years ago. The highest spec Photonis tubes are our 18mm "Ultimate" tube which are very thin and are pared with a CMOS to produce true digital night vision with better performance than analog tubes by themselves. They have just finished testing in the US. They have exceptionally high FOM, high gain, plus all of the other features of Photonis tubes (highest contrast, lowest halo, fastest auto-gating, very wide dynamic range, and high light resolution). They are, in fact, the best tubes on the planet, however they're not designed to fit into standard housings because they're so thin - in other words they are designed for digital night vision and no one has made a housing for them yet to be used as a straight analog system.

Even these tubes are offered in the US market, however, they are specialized tubes and you have to know about them in order to get one. Even if you know about them we have to approve the purchase, as they are not advertised on our website, nor are they carried by distributors. They are made very specifically, for now, for specialized usage for specialized platforms, and someday they will find their way into the mass commercial market.

We just completed a strategic night vision seminar where we invited all of our distributors and a slew of high ranking civilians to discuss night vision advancements and where we're going into the future - one of the products showcased was the digital night vision camera developed for the special warfare community. The completed unit is about the same size as a standard 18mm image intensifier tube and the performance is nothing short of spectacular even under overcast starlight conditions. So digital night vision has finally arrived, however the price point isn't where it needs to be quite yet.

I see on our website that the weight of PD-PRO-16B lists the weight as less than 490 grams and less than 12 ounces. Obviously one of those in incorrect. The correct weight is less than 490 grams or a tad under 17.2 ounces with battery. That information will be corrected and thanks for pointing out the error. The magnesium version of PD-PRO-16B is 15.9 ounces (with battery).

All distributors have the latest marketing materials and we double checked those and all of those are correct. If you have any questions that our distributors can't answer then please reach out directly via our website.

PD-PRO-16B Binocular NVG

Overview PD-PRO-16B Night Vision Binocular Available now The Photonis Defense PD-PRO-16B is the lightest and smallest binocular night vision device on the market. Designed from the ground up around the Photonis 4G 16mm tube, the PD-PRO-16B takes full advantage of all the capabilities of its...

www.thirdcoastthermal.com

Photonis 16 Bino PD Pro-B w/ 4G Tube

The Photonis 16 Bino PD Pro-B with 4G Tube is uniquely designed to provide operators with a significant night vision advantage when conducting operations.

ampedairsoft.com

https://www.jrhenterprises.com/PD-PRO-16B-Binocular-Night-vision-with-4G-Intens-WP-PD-PRO-16mm.htm

Those are based on a quick Google search. I’ve not seen a single store list any weight above 12oz. Likely based on Photonis’s website and listed specifications.

Respectfully, that is a pretty incredible error. I bought them specifically for the listed weight because I have a spine injury (along with other injuries incurred while active duty). Lower weight obviously helps.

Any way for me to know which version I’m getting based on serial number @ljstack ? PDB87605. I don’t have them in hand yet otherwise I would just weigh them.

I plan on doing a review of these, comparing them against another bino system.

I will end up selling if they are the heavier version.

 

[ljstack]

So what is the current night vision intensification part for 18 mm tubes top-of-the-line from Photonis?

If any of use wanted a WP current version of what was once called the “Intens+,” what would we order?

The INTENS replacement is the 4G tube. The current line of Photonis tubes for the commercial market is on our website at www.photonisdefense.com. Basically, ECHO tubes are commercial line tubes with MILSPEC performance that don't meet the specifications for our 4G tubes for one reason or another. It could be spots in one of the critical zones, or any of the other parameters that define our 4G line. You won't go wrong with an ECHO tube and a quick search of the internet will showcase performance. ECHO tubes are available now. Our 4G tubes are MILSPEC that meet the requirements of the US Army and our own specifications, they are also available now. Our 18mm Ultimate "5G" tube is a very specialized tube with a minimum FOM of 3000 with a target of >3000. The Ultimate tube is a thin tube which we designed for the special operations community specifically to be mated to a CMOS sensor for digital night vision. I'll attach a photo (an older photo as it shows the INTENS tube). In this photo you will see the 18mm 5G thin tube, a 16mm tube, an 18mm 4G hybrid which is used in our PD-PRO-Q, and an industry standard INTENS 18mm tube.

 

[rlsmith1]

The INTENS replacement is the 4G tube. The current line of Photonis tubes for the commercial market is on our website at www.photonisdefense.com. Basically, ECHO tubes are commercial line tubes with MILSPEC performance that don't meet the specifications for our 4G tubes for one reason or another. It could be spots in one of the critical zones, or any of the other parameters that define our 4G line. You won't go wrong with an ECHO tube and a quick search of the internet will showcase performance. ECHO tubes are available now. Our 4G tubes are MILSPEC that meet the requirements of the US Army and our own specifications, they are also available now. Our 18mm Ultimate "5G" tube is a very specialized tube with a minimum FOM of 3000 with a target of 4000 (100 lp/mm, 40SNR). The Ultimate tube is a thin tube which we designed for the special operations community specifically to be mated to a CMOS sensor for digital night vision. I'll attach a photo (an older photo as it shows the INTENS tube). In this photo you will see the 18mm 5G thin tube, a 16mm tube, an 18mm 4G hybrid which is used in our PD-PRO-Q, and an industry standard INTENS 18mm tube.

At face value that's incredible. But to be fair to the current tube types, shouldn't you also include the CMOS in the size comparison? If I understand what you're saying, the 5G tube is feeding electrons to the CMOS which then allows the image to be shown digitally?

That's quite the standard for the 5G tubes as well!

 

[ljstack]

So if you were following Eliteuas' thread, the first batch arrived this week and Fedex delivered it just in time for the new moon this Saturday!

First impression, they certainly nailed the presentation. It came in this massive SKB case and quite a few accessories including counter weights+ pouch, sacrifical filters, and more.

Coffee mug is for scale and not included...

The first thing you notice about the unit is definetly its size, I've played with many different NVGs/Housings (DTNVG/DTNVS, PVS31A, RNVG, and MOD3) and these are without a doubt the most compact unit Ive handled.

A quick comparison of size between a couple units

When I ordered the PD-PRO-Bs the intention was to do a direct comparision with a set of PVS-31As. Sadly I've since let go of the 31As, but did snap photos when I had them.

Note: its a cheap $10 kitchen scale, im not sure actual weight is accurate as its not certified, but am confident in it determining relative weight.

Getting into the nuts of it, went out with a couple of buddies last night during the new moon in woods. So there was no illumination except starlight. The photos were taken at places more than a few hundred yards away from artificial light. Photonis PD-Pro-B on the left and L3 24UA tubes (tubes were as nice as the ones in the 31As I had) on the right.

Buddy at about 50yrds

Buddy at about 25 yrds

Photos were taken with a Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra. I did not tweak the settings, just selected the photo tab and snapped pics. This left the phone to select the appropriate setting. So with this in mind, the pics are slightly different from "to the eye" and of course its always hard to compare photos in general to "to the eye".

To the eye, the photonis set did not have as high of a gain as the L3 did; they appered not as "bright" side by side. So if you were to just go by this initial quick 5 sec look thru; many would say the photonis was just not as good.

But, although the photonis is not as bright, the level of detail/definition (which the photos illustrate) is not much lower. Like how eyes after a period of time adapts to the dark, the lower gain does not equate to far lower performance. I would describe the photonis set as similar in picture to tubes with manual gain turned down. While I can say L3 is still the best at low light performance, these photonis tubes doesnt seem to be far off. In high light of course thats where the photonis set shined.

I didnt take photos of high light enviroments, but in situations where the L3 was showing temp burns (thus I didnt want to hold the tube there to snap a pic) the photonis was chugging along just fine.

Final thoughts: These are the only set of binos I was able to fit into a Raine PVS-14 Padded case (31As included) or for that matter my pants pockets( which was kind of a "whoa!" moment). These are the only metal articulating binos option on the market and I've have no doubt, like RNVGs, they are built like a tank(yet lighter than 31As). So if stowability and ruggedness are important, these bino fit the bill. Horta was right lol. From a commercial standpoint If you live somewhere where the popuation density is meaured in miles, the nearest street lamp is not in view, its your first set of binos and all you want it pure low light performance; these are not for you. But for those who are in suburban or urban environments, I think these binos are great. Not to mention a Gucci bug out bag.

Great photos! On you next test try this, at about the same distance as you have your figure place a blue light shining against a tree. The Photonis tube will show this much better than any other tube. This is because of our wide dynamic range, which is below 400nm to above 1,000 nm. If you have a 1064nm illuminator shine it within the glow of the blue light. What will happen is that you'll see the illuminator perfectly well with the Photonis tube and not at all with a GEN3 tube. The key to all of this is that Photonis tubes are designed for Urban combat which have a wide dynamic range of photons. The gain is lower (for our ECHO and 4G tubes) than a GEN3 tube. Thus you'll get a brighter image with the L3 (any GEN3 tube) as your photo shows, but as you've noticed the clarity of the images is the same. However if we were to increase our gain, then it would be just as bright as an L3 tube, plus the benefits of a Photonis tube (best contrast, smallest halo, wide dynamic range, etc.,). The reason we don't do that is due to the combat environment they were designed for - which means a light polluted environment. Light pollution drives the resolution down for GEN3 tubes. Highlight resolution for a GEN3 tube is around 36/37 lp/mm; whereas Photonis tubes never go below 57 lp/mm. So if you're moving in an urban environment (think any city in the Ukraine) comprised of burning bodies, tanks, buildings, neon street signs, weapon flashes, plus pitch black streets, urban tunnels, open plains, forests and mountains etc., - that's what Photonis tubes and systems are designed for. So SNR x lp/mm equals FOM. If you're in a dark room and kick down a door and are suddenly faced with a person with a flashlight mounted on their AK, the FOM of a GEN3 will instantaneously drop to 37 lp/mm times the SNR. Which means your 2400 FOM GEN3 isn't 2400 FOM anymore, it's more like 1,100 FOM. A Photonis system will drop no lower than 57 lp/mm times SNR, so basically you have less swing in your FOM.

 

[ljstack]

This is exciting news and will look forward to more. Do you expect to have more information come out at SHOT? If you don't mind me asking, what is the weight of a bino system with these new tubes in them?

If you mean the 18mm Ultimate tube, there have not been any housings designed for them (yet). We are working with the military in that regard as the Ultimate tube can be used in its analog version, or mated to a CMOS for digital night vision. We'll be at Shot so make sure you bring your GEN3 system and compare it yourself to a Photonis system. We will probably have the Ultimate Digital Night Vision camera on display. It has a 72 degree FOV by the way.

 

[ljstack]

At face value that's incredible. But to be fair to the current tube types, shouldn't you also include the CMOS in the size comparison? If I understand what you're saying, the 5G tube is feeding electrons to the CMOS which then allows the image to be shown digitally?

That's quite the standard for the 5G tubes as well!

Sure, however, better to judge for yourself. Here it is (edited: photo removed). This is the Photonis Ultimate 5G thin tube, mated to a CMOS (chosen by the government, not us), and held with an aluminum housing. It has a 72 degree FOV GRIN optic lens. As I noted, the performance is incredible. Left to right 18mm Ultimate, 16mm 4G, 18mm 4G Hybrid (on our PD-PRO-Q), and 18mm 4G (or industry standard 18mm size).

 

[rlsmith1]

Sure, however, better to judge for yourself. Here it is. This is the Photonis Ultimate 5G thin tube, mated to a CMOS (chosen by the government, not us), and held with an aluminum housing. It has a 72 degree FOV GRIN optic lens. As I noted, the performance is incredible.

That’s legit…

 

[ljstack]

PD-PRO-16B Binocular NVG

Overview PD-PRO-16B Night Vision Binocular Available now The Photonis Defense PD-PRO-16B is the lightest and smallest binocular night vision device on the market. Designed from the ground up around the Photonis 4G 16mm tube, the PD-PRO-16B takes full advantage of all the capabilities of its...

www.thirdcoastthermal.com

Photonis 16 Bino PD Pro-B w/ 4G Tube

The Photonis 16 Bino PD Pro-B with 4G Tube is uniquely designed to provide operators with a significant night vision advantage when conducting operations.

ampedairsoft.com

https://www.jrhenterprises.com/PD-PRO-16B-Binocular-Night-vision-with-4G-Intens-WP-PD-PRO-16mm.htm

Those are based on a quick Google search. I’ve not seen a single store list any weight above 12oz. Likely based on Photonis’s website and listed specifications.

Respectfully, that is a pretty incredible error. I bought them specifically for the listed weight because I have a spine injury (along with other injuries incurred while active duty). Lower weight obviously helps.

Any way for me to know which version I’m getting based on serial number @ljstack ? PDB87605. I don’t have them in hand yet otherwise I would just weigh them.

I plan on doing a review of these, comparing them against another bino system.

I will end up selling if they are the heavier version.

We have 2 versions of the PD-PRO-16B, the correct weight is about 17.2 ounces with battery for the aluminum version and 15.9 ounces with battery for the magnesium version. If you did not specify the magnesium version, then you're getting the aluminum version. Before you sell them, I recommend you compare them in terms of size and weight to other NODS. If you're comparing them to plastic NODS, then you'll need to make a judgement call as to whether you want to depend on plastic or metal.

 

[Conqueror]

So will the 18mm Ultimate tube technology be available to civilians? It sounds like amazing technology if it performs as described but that doesn’t do most of us any good if the next decade of production is spoken for by government contracts.

Also, will photonis ever release a thermal fusion binocular? The civilian market is headed slowly in that direction. The COTI, ECOTI, and Jerry-C are all becoming far more popular and several companies are now selling or developing a civilian ENVG-B equivalent.

 

[ljstack]

So will the 18mm Ultimate tube technology be available to civilians? It sounds like amazing technology if it performs as described but that doesn’t do most of us any good if the next decade of production is spoken for by government contracts.

Also, will photonis ever release a thermal fusion binocular? The civilian market is headed slowly in that direction. The COTI, ECOTI, and Jerry-C are all becoming far more popular and several companies are now selling or developing a civilian ENVG-B equivalent.

Yes, it will via our distributors, once its in full production. If you go to Photonisdefense.com you'll see our fusion binocular called the "TacFusion." Probably late next year we'll also have an intensified (intensified means combining an image intensifier tube with a CMOS) and digitally stabilized digital night vision binocular. It may also incorporate SWIR and LWIR.

 

[Conqueror]

Sorry, I should have clarified. The Tac Fusion is handheld, we’re after helmet mounted. Something to compete with the ENVG-B, the Jerry F-B, the CoreVision AVS-ITS, etc.

 

[ljstack]

Depending on the

Sorry, I should have clarified. The Tac Fusion is handheld, we’re after helmet mounted. Something to compete with the ENVG-B, the Jerry F-B, the CoreVision AVS-ITPhotonis 5G tubes will go to 1,550 nm, so I think that takes care of most of your issues right there.

 

[ljstack]

Photonis tubes currently see from below 400nm to 1,100nm. The new tubes will see from below 400nm to 1,550nm. That should take care of your needs right there. Currently our NODS will take an ECOTI.

 

[Conqueror]

I’m struggling to envision what the image would look like with every wavelength boosted from near-ultraviolet to LWIR and I’m at a loss. Thermal fusion systems work well partially because they amplify in the LWIR zone a lot more than they do in the SWIR/MWIR zones - it highlights heat sources rather than equally amplifying the entire EM spectrum.

 

[ljstack]

It'll still work like that (amplify some wavelengths more than others) except it'll look more natural, the key is how much certain wavelengths are boosted. However, you and I will need to standby to see what eventually comes out of the Photonis lab

 

[ARShooter91]

We have 2 versions of the PD-PRO-16B, the correct weight is about 17.2 ounces with battery for the aluminum version and 15.9 ounces with battery for the magnesium version. If you did not specify the magnesium version, then you're getting the aluminum version. Before you sell them, I recommend you compare them in terms of size and weight to other NODS. If you're comparing them to plastic NODS, then you'll need to make a judgement call as to whether you want to depend on plastic or metal.

"Plastic" will bend and flex if impacted, dropped, or whatever. It doesn't perminently deform. Metal is more rigid and if pushed too far with just break or crack. Pmag vs USGI(like them both).

 

[tangloppen]

The INTENS replacement is the 4G tube. The current line of Photonis tubes for the commercial market is on our website at www.photonisdefense.com. Basically, ECHO tubes are commercial line tubes with MILSPEC performance that don't meet the specifications for our 4G tubes for one reason or another. It could be spots in one of the critical zones, or any of the other parameters that define our 4G line. You won't go wrong with an ECHO tube and a quick search of the internet will showcase performance. ECHO tubes are available now. Our 4G tubes are MILSPEC that meet the requirements of the US Army and our own specifications, they are also available now. Our 18mm Ultimate "5G" tube is a very specialized tube with a minimum FOM of 3000 with a target of 4000 (100 lp/mm, 40SNR). The Ultimate tube is a thin tube which we designed for the special operations community specifically to be mated to a CMOS sensor for digital night vision. I'll attach a photo (an older photo as it shows the INTENS tube). In this photo you will see the 18mm 5G thin tube, a 16mm tube, an 18mm 4G hybrid which is used in our PD-PRO-Q, and an industry standard INTENS 18mm tube.

well duck.
Please make a separate thread for this subject.
Can’t let this drown in discussion about aluminum vs magnesium…

 

[Lowdown3]

@French1966
Thanks for pointing out the little difference in weight. We used the specs from Photonis. Interestingly enough I had an older IG post showing one on a scale and I missed the slight difference between the two. I have corrected our product description and kept the stated weight and made a note that we weighed them in at 15.9 ounces. I did it this way to avoid misinterpretation.