Picking the best load from Copper Creek

[Racer88]

OK.... I know the best way to go is to load my own ammo. It's just not in the cards right now... logistically. I literally have no place to set up a reloading bench at home. Maybe after the kids are out on their own.

In the mean time, I have used both factory match grade ammo (works quite well) and custom loads from Copper Creek Ammo.

I used Copper Creek's "Load Development Packs" - #1 and #2. For those not familiar... with LDP #1, they provide five different powder loads, five rounds each. You fire those and pick the best group and tell Copper Creek which one it was (color coded). You also measure your chamber depth and provide that info. Then they send you LDP #2 with that powder load and five different bullet seating depths. From that pack, you pick the best group, and now you have your "custom recipe." Then you can order as much of that recipe as you need.

As I’ve ventured down this precision shooting rabbit hole, I’m continuously learning.

Set-up for my question: With LDP #1, I chose the load by the best overall group size, measured in MOA to three decimals. But, I’ve recently learned that with load development, I should be looking at the VERTICAL size of the group (finding the “node”). With my LDP #1, the best VERTICAL result was NOT my best overall measured group (MOA).

OK… the actual question: When evaluating the LDP #1, should I be looking for the smallest VERTICAL spread instead of the overall group? For the LDP #1, I chose the GREEN load over the BLUE load (and the other three). Perhaps the BLUE is better? (target photos below)

Thanks!

 

[ShtrRdy]

I like to look at group size. I also do that step at a distance of 100 yds. I believe there is less chance of the wind moving the bullet.

If you were looking for vertical dispersion I think you have to do that at longer distances.

 

[Racer88]

I like to look at group size. I also do that step at a distance of 100 yds. I believe there is less chance of the wind moving the bullet.

If you were looking for vertical dispersion I think you have to do that at longer distances.

Yes... Copper Creek recommends doing it at 200 - 400 yards. Local range availability is scarce.... once a month 100 and 200 yards... one per quarter at 300 yards. In this case, I did the test at 200 yards. Thanks for your comments!

 

[308pirate]

What does your logbook say about your shot call and reticle jump for every one of those ten shots?

It's impossible to say which group best represents the most accurate load without a known call for every shot.

 

[Racer88]

What does your logbook say about your shot call and reticle jump for every one of those ten shots?

It's impossible to say which group best represents the most accurate load without a known call for every shot.

Good question. I only recently got a data book. I did the Copper Creek LDP before I had a data book. Furthermore, my skills have advanced a fair bit since I did the LDP.

I think I know the answer to my question.... Do the LDP again, eh?

Though, I'm still wondering.... Let's say I have two groups (two loads) that are about the same size. From what I've read, the vertical dispersion matters more than the horizontal, when it comes to finding a velocity node, right?

I think the challenge is accounting for the HUMAN error when using a single 5-shot group to evaluate a load. I need a "load development robot!"

 

[308pirate]

I think the challenge is accounting for the HUMAN error when using a single 5-shot group to evaluate a load. I need a "load development robot!"

Hence my question about your shot calls.

Without that, it's impossible to say which of those two groups represents a more accurate load

 

[Racer88]

Hence my question about your shot calls.

Without that, it's impossible to say which of those two groups represents a more accurate load

Human error applies to shot calls, as well, eh? Especially when the shooter is fairly new to the concept. Not a total noob. But, learning... at a self-imposed accelerated pace.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Why not ask Josh to send you LDP2 packs for both blue and green? Would be faster solution than going back to LDP1 and starting all over.

 

[Racer88]

Why not ask Josh to send you LDP2 packs for both blue and green? Would be faster solution than going back to LDP1 and starting all over.

Josh's advice was the smallest overall group.... in which case, I chose what is best (at least at the time).

I'm tempted to start over at LDP 1 for two reasons. First... I'm a better shooter now. I trust my groups more now. Secondly, after 2000 rounds, I suspect there has been some throat erosion, which can change things up, right?

Thanks for chiming in.... your idea intrigues me, too.

 

[b6graham]

if you're at 2k rounds, is it worth doing load development versus just grabbing hornady/prime/etc factory ammo to finish up the barrel?

 

[47guy]

if you're at 2k rounds, is it worth doing load development versus just grabbing hornady/prime/etc factory ammo to finish up the barrel?

this right here...if your at 2k theres not much left and no sense spending that much for load development packs from CC.

 

[Racer88]

if you're at 2k rounds, is it worth doing load development versus just grabbing hornady/prime/etc factory ammo to finish up the barrel?

That actually did occur to me. But, I'm not seeing my groups deteriorate. Rather, they're getting better.... because I'm getting better. I am still seeing sub-1/2-MOA groups, when I do my part. The rest of my groups are consistently sub-MOA. So, with that in mind... how much more life can I expect from the OEM barrel?

Thanks!

PS.... The LDP costs only about $6 extra.

 

[b6graham]

what's the gun?

could be another 1500, or another 300, hard to say

 

[Racer88]

what's the gun?

could be another 1500, or another 300, hard to say

Oh! Yeah, that would help, eh?

Ruger Precision Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Racer88]

OK... Made it to the range with two new LDP #1s from Copper Creek. Since I was having some good groups with factory Federal Gold Medal Berger Hybrid 130-gr ammo, I got one LDP with that bullet. The other was Hornady's ELD-M 140-gr. I was half-expecting the Berger to win. But, overall, I'd say the ELD-M won again. Now... which ELD-M load? Hmmmm....

The chrono data (MagnetoSpeed) for each group is on the last line of each group analysis annotation.

Berger Hybrid 130-gr

Hornady ELD-M 140-gr

 

[Alan101]

Any one else concerned about the SD and ES listed on the targets? Seems awful high to me.

 

[Racer88]

Any one else concerned about the SD and ES listed on the targets? Seems awful high to me.

I was curious about that, too.

 

[308Gunner]

That would not work for me but I load my own

 

[Bradu]

The next step of the load packs where they adjust the seating depth can help with the s.d.'s.

 

[Alan101]

Is it the loads causing the high SD and ES or is it a shot out barrel? The next barrel i shoot out I will chrono my known load on it before I pull it. See what the SD and ES look like.

 

[Racer88]

Is it the loads causing the high SD and ES or is it a shot out barrel? The next barrel i shoot out I will chrono my known load on it before I pull it. See what the SD and ES look like.

As of today, the barrel has 2,440 rounds through it. But, it's still shooting sub-MOA. Even sub-1/2-MOA at shorter distances (100 / 200 yards). Here's my best group at 300 yards today. Factory ammo! I was quite pleased to shoot sub-MOA at 300 yards.

At what point do I know if the barrel is "shot out?" I think the barrel is still capable of better groups than I am.

 

[Alan101]

glad it is still shooting. at some point the accuracy and velocity will drop off. then you know. sometimes its a rapid drop, sometimes slow, but you will know,