Had a guy out in the midwest build me four guns. Great guns and they shoot great. Never had a problem. Wanted to get a 338L made. Was told 6-9 mos. No problem. Checked in at about 9 mos, hopeful it would be done, nope. OK good work takes time Was told the gun would be ready in April when I came out there for a hunting trip. Nope. Now 7 mos later I call and the guy blows me off. Tells me it's not ready and he has all these guys want their hunting rifles for hunting season. Now I'm pissed. Been jerked around for over a year and a half. Sent a letter, want my money back (500receiver, 1500 NF scope) We'll see what happens but at this point I'm done. I don't want the gun. Couldn't be sure if it would be thrown together or if it will blow up in my face. Hopefully this will be settled by sending me my money back. If he had told me it would take a year and a half I would have passed. If not,I'm ready to get my attorney involved and I don't care if it costs me double. My question is, am I being unreasonable?
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Pissed
- Thread starter Derek01
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Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tells me it's not ready...I don't want the gun...I'm ready to get my attorney involved and I don't care if it costs me double. My question is, am I being unreasonable? </div></div>What do you want your attorney to do for you?
You said the the rifle is 'not ready' but you omitted the one key fact: Has he started work? Because it sounds to me like you entered into a unilateral contract, so if the gunsmith has started work you must give him a reasonable time to finish it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tells me it's not ready...I don't want the gun...I'm ready to get my attorney involved and I don't care if it costs me double. My question is, am I being unreasonable? </div></div>What do you want your attorney to do for you?
You said the the rifle is 'not ready' but you omitted the one key fact: Has he started work? Because it sounds to me like you entered into a unilateral contract, so if the gunsmith has started work you must give him a reasonable time to finish it.
Re: Pissed
If the original 'contract' was 6-9 months, what exactly would constitute "reasonable"?
If the original 'contract' was 6-9 months, what exactly would constitute "reasonable"?
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what exactly would constitute "reasonable"? </div></div>Good call: That's always the question to be litigated.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what exactly would constitute "reasonable"? </div></div>Good call: That's always the question to be litigated.
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the original 'contract' was 6-9 months, what exactly would constitute "reasonable"?</div></div>
I'm betting the customer and smith would have widely differing definitions of reasonable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the original 'contract' was 6-9 months, what exactly would constitute "reasonable"?</div></div>
I'm betting the customer and smith would have widely differing definitions of reasonable.
Re: Pissed
I'm not trying to be a jerk here but twice I was told the gun would be ready at a certain date and twice it wasn't ready. I understand sometimes it takes a while to get parts. I asked if this was the problem. No, not a parts problem. Just I'm busy. It takes time. When I visited in April to pick up the gun he showed me my so called gun, a barrel blank and a half finished stock. I think I have been more than patient and he has been less than forthcoming. A little straight talk would have smoothed over the problem but he's letting me feel like I'm being jerked around and now I'm done
I'm not trying to be a jerk here but twice I was told the gun would be ready at a certain date and twice it wasn't ready. I understand sometimes it takes a while to get parts. I asked if this was the problem. No, not a parts problem. Just I'm busy. It takes time. When I visited in April to pick up the gun he showed me my so called gun, a barrel blank and a half finished stock. I think I have been more than patient and he has been less than forthcoming. A little straight talk would have smoothed over the problem but he's letting me feel like I'm being jerked around and now I'm done
Re: Pissed
I think that it would be reasonable to pay for the work that has already been done, and get a refund for the work that has yet to be completed. If you prepaid for the parts that would settle it, if not you would owe the cost of parts as well. At least that seems like the easiest thing to do from my point of view.
I once had a similiar situation happen to me but the smith would not respond to any correspondence, including a certified letter that I sent to him with the above "offer". Finally had to contact my local ATF office but that is a different story altogether.
It seems as though there are many smiths that are great at smithin but horrendous at time management and keeping an open line of communication.
To answer your question, I do not think that you are being unreasonable. But I'm almost always wrong.
I think that it would be reasonable to pay for the work that has already been done, and get a refund for the work that has yet to be completed. If you prepaid for the parts that would settle it, if not you would owe the cost of parts as well. At least that seems like the easiest thing to do from my point of view.
I once had a similiar situation happen to me but the smith would not respond to any correspondence, including a certified letter that I sent to him with the above "offer". Finally had to contact my local ATF office but that is a different story altogether.
It seems as though there are many smiths that are great at smithin but horrendous at time management and keeping an open line of communication.
To answer your question, I do not think that you are being unreasonable. But I'm almost always wrong.
L
longguntoter
Guest
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had a guy out in the midwest build me four guns. Great guns and they shoot great. Never had a problem. Wanted to get a 338L made. Was told 6-9 mos. No problem. Checked in at about 9 mos, hopeful it would be done, nope. OK good work takes time Was told the gun would be ready in April when I came out there for a hunting trip. Nope. Now 7 mos later I call and the guy blows me off. Tells me it's not ready and he has all these guys want their hunting rifles for hunting season. Now I'm pissed. Been jerked around for over a year and a half. Sent a letter, want my money back (500receiver, 1500 NF scope) We'll see what happens but at this point I'm done. I don't want the gun. Couldn't be sure if it would be thrown together or if it will blow up in my face. Hopefully this will be settled by sending me my money back. If he had told me it would take a year and a half I would have passed. If not,I'm ready to get my attorney involved and I don't care if it costs me double. My question is, am I being unreasonable? </div></div>No, not at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had a guy out in the midwest build me four guns. Great guns and they shoot great. Never had a problem. Wanted to get a 338L made. Was told 6-9 mos. No problem. Checked in at about 9 mos, hopeful it would be done, nope. OK good work takes time Was told the gun would be ready in April when I came out there for a hunting trip. Nope. Now 7 mos later I call and the guy blows me off. Tells me it's not ready and he has all these guys want their hunting rifles for hunting season. Now I'm pissed. Been jerked around for over a year and a half. Sent a letter, want my money back (500receiver, 1500 NF scope) We'll see what happens but at this point I'm done. I don't want the gun. Couldn't be sure if it would be thrown together or if it will blow up in my face. Hopefully this will be settled by sending me my money back. If he had told me it would take a year and a half I would have passed. If not,I'm ready to get my attorney involved and I don't care if it costs me double. My question is, am I being unreasonable? </div></div>No, not at all.
Re: Pissed
I do not think you are being unreasonable at all. In fact, you are probably more patient than I ever would have been. The guy has had your funds for over a year and a half now and you still do not have anything to show for it. That is uncalled for IMO. If he did not think he could get it done in a reasonable manner then he should have told you. More often than not guys end up in this situation because they take your money, spend it on something else or to finish someone else's project, then realize they have no money to finish yours. So, they sell some more projects and before you know it that same spending spree has them in trouble because they do not have the funds to finish the projects that they have already taken money for. A lot of businesses do this and quite frankly its dangerous and I am not sure how most of them stay in business doing stuff that way.
If I were you, I would write down everything, payment, dates of contact, print your emails, whatever, have phone records of you calling etc. Then I would call him back and say you have put together some documentation of this deal, your point of contact, etc. and tell him you have given him 1.5 years to complete this and it is still not done. Give him a timeline. Say you want to work with him but never figured it would take this long. Agree on a timeline of say 3 months, and then tell him if you do not have your rifle by the agreed upon time then you are taking your documentation to your lawyer to get this resolved. 90% of the time that is going to take care of the problem. The only concern I would have is if said person might sabotage your rifle or something in some way. Then again, if he did then you would have serious case on your hands and could seek major monetary damages for that. Surely he would not do that. I think there are still stand up people around.
I do not think you are being unreasonable at all. In fact, you are probably more patient than I ever would have been. The guy has had your funds for over a year and a half now and you still do not have anything to show for it. That is uncalled for IMO. If he did not think he could get it done in a reasonable manner then he should have told you. More often than not guys end up in this situation because they take your money, spend it on something else or to finish someone else's project, then realize they have no money to finish yours. So, they sell some more projects and before you know it that same spending spree has them in trouble because they do not have the funds to finish the projects that they have already taken money for. A lot of businesses do this and quite frankly its dangerous and I am not sure how most of them stay in business doing stuff that way.
If I were you, I would write down everything, payment, dates of contact, print your emails, whatever, have phone records of you calling etc. Then I would call him back and say you have put together some documentation of this deal, your point of contact, etc. and tell him you have given him 1.5 years to complete this and it is still not done. Give him a timeline. Say you want to work with him but never figured it would take this long. Agree on a timeline of say 3 months, and then tell him if you do not have your rifle by the agreed upon time then you are taking your documentation to your lawyer to get this resolved. 90% of the time that is going to take care of the problem. The only concern I would have is if said person might sabotage your rifle or something in some way. Then again, if he did then you would have serious case on your hands and could seek major monetary damages for that. Surely he would not do that. I think there are still stand up people around.
Re: Pissed
A local shop went through the same thing. First they started missing due dates and then suddenly they closed up shop and moved the whole operation to Indiana and took all of their customers guns with them. Of all the people who had their guns stolen by this guy I only know of one who got his gun back and it took getting the sheriff involved prior to the smith leaving the state. The only notice he gave his customers was a closed sign on the now empty building and a disconnected phone number. When customers called for updates right up until he moved out of state he said the same stuff, "it's not quite done" or "next week". Now I didn't loose a gun to this guy but I know one several who did and only one who got his gun back.
A local shop went through the same thing. First they started missing due dates and then suddenly they closed up shop and moved the whole operation to Indiana and took all of their customers guns with them. Of all the people who had their guns stolen by this guy I only know of one who got his gun back and it took getting the sheriff involved prior to the smith leaving the state. The only notice he gave his customers was a closed sign on the now empty building and a disconnected phone number. When customers called for updates right up until he moved out of state he said the same stuff, "it's not quite done" or "next week". Now I didn't loose a gun to this guy but I know one several who did and only one who got his gun back.
Re: Pissed
High Binder,
That right there is almost grounds for 'vigilante' justice, with a bit of rope included. Either from a tree, or the back of a truck, I'm not sure.
Seriously though, and all joking aside, how long will it be before people stop accepting situations like this, as "normal" and "ok"?
High Binder,
That right there is almost grounds for 'vigilante' justice, with a bit of rope included. Either from a tree, or the back of a truck, I'm not sure.
Seriously though, and all joking aside, how long will it be before people stop accepting situations like this, as "normal" and "ok"?
Re: Pissed
Has he started work on it yet? or just put your parts on a shelf? I think you are doing the right thing, keep at it. MM
Has he started work on it yet? or just put your parts on a shelf? I think you are doing the right thing, keep at it. MM
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">High Binder,
<span style="font-weight: bold">That right there is almost grounds for 'vigilante' justice, with a bit of rope included. Either from a tree, or the back of a truck, I'm not sure.</span>
Seriously though, and all joking aside, how long will it be before people stop accepting situations like this, as "normal" and "ok"?</div></div>
That is NO SHIT!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">High Binder,
<span style="font-weight: bold">That right there is almost grounds for 'vigilante' justice, with a bit of rope included. Either from a tree, or the back of a truck, I'm not sure.</span>
Seriously though, and all joking aside, how long will it be before people stop accepting situations like this, as "normal" and "ok"?</div></div>
That is NO SHIT!
Re: Pissed
All the builds I have had done, I paid a deposit, some I didn't pay anything until it was completed. If you paid for everything in advance and he's dragging his feet after giving you two finish dates I think you have a reason to be pissed. That's what sucks about paying for anything in advance some people get the money and your shit goes on the back burner, now if you paid a deposit he'd want to finish to get paid.
All the builds I have had done, I paid a deposit, some I didn't pay anything until it was completed. If you paid for everything in advance and he's dragging his feet after giving you two finish dates I think you have a reason to be pissed. That's what sucks about paying for anything in advance some people get the money and your shit goes on the back burner, now if you paid a deposit he'd want to finish to get paid.
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">High Binder,
That right there is almost grounds for 'vigilante' justice, with a bit of rope included. Either from a tree, or the back of a truck, I'm not sure.
Seriously though, and all joking aside, how long will it be before people stop accepting situations like this, as "normal" and "ok"? </div></div>
I totally agree. This guy had two giant walls full of guns that were there for work, easily 50 rifles. So that's 50+ people who got screwed. My buddy's rifle that was there for work was luckily only a cheap $250 Winchester 1200 semi-auto shotgun that wouldn't cycle so he's not out much but I can't imagine how pissed other people with more expensive rifles are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">High Binder,
That right there is almost grounds for 'vigilante' justice, with a bit of rope included. Either from a tree, or the back of a truck, I'm not sure.
Seriously though, and all joking aside, how long will it be before people stop accepting situations like this, as "normal" and "ok"? </div></div>
I totally agree. This guy had two giant walls full of guns that were there for work, easily 50 rifles. So that's 50+ people who got screwed. My buddy's rifle that was there for work was luckily only a cheap $250 Winchester 1200 semi-auto shotgun that wouldn't cycle so he's not out much but I can't imagine how pissed other people with more expensive rifles are.
Re: Pissed
Sounds a lot like that douchebag that worked at gap many moons ago then left, started his own "business" and raped a lot of guys and went into hiding, can't remember his name
Sounds a lot like that douchebag that worked at gap many moons ago then left, started his own "business" and raped a lot of guys and went into hiding, can't remember his name
Re: Pissed
Thanks for the input. Needed to get that off my chest . I'm going to call on Tuesday and set a firm finish by date, or he can return my deposit, or deal with the attorney. It's just hard to understand, I've bought four guns from him and they're great. I had planned to continue buying more. Don't see why he felt he needed to jerk me around.
Thanks for the input. Needed to get that off my chest . I'm going to call on Tuesday and set a firm finish by date, or he can return my deposit, or deal with the attorney. It's just hard to understand, I've bought four guns from him and they're great. I had planned to continue buying more. Don't see why he felt he needed to jerk me around.
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm going to call on Tuesday and set a firm finish by date, </div></div>
Why? Has the past 1.5yrs not <span style="text-decoration: underline">taught</span> you that he doesn't respect due dates?
I'd get my money back and chalk up the wait as lesson <span style="text-decoration: underline">learned</span>. (Major emphasis on the 'learned' part.)
On a side note: I wouldn't threaten him with the all too tired attorney threat, that'll just piss him off and if he's anything like most people he'll just say "fuck you sue me" and then you're not seeing a gun or a penny back until you actually do.. I'd just nicely request my money back and if he doesn't deliver then you can file a small claims against him.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm going to call on Tuesday and set a firm finish by date, </div></div>
Why? Has the past 1.5yrs not <span style="text-decoration: underline">taught</span> you that he doesn't respect due dates?
I'd get my money back and chalk up the wait as lesson <span style="text-decoration: underline">learned</span>. (Major emphasis on the 'learned' part.)
On a side note: I wouldn't threaten him with the all too tired attorney threat, that'll just piss him off and if he's anything like most people he'll just say "fuck you sue me" and then you're not seeing a gun or a penny back until you actually do.. I'd just nicely request my money back and if he doesn't deliver then you can file a small claims against him.
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds a lot like that douchebag that worked at gap many moons ago then left, started his own "business" and raped a lot of guys and went into hiding, can't remember his name </div></div>
Is that a true story? Not trolling, just curious as I'm looking at a few companies to get some shit done for me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds a lot like that douchebag that worked at gap many moons ago then left, started his own "business" and raped a lot of guys and went into hiding, can't remember his name </div></div>
Is that a true story? Not trolling, just curious as I'm looking at a few companies to get some shit done for me.
Re: Pissed
I don't think that you are being unreasonable to ask for all of your money back. I'd be fuming mad by now. Twice the estimated time is unacceptable, and the worst part of it all is the horrible communication.
I don't think that you are being unreasonable to ask for all of your money back. I'd be fuming mad by now. Twice the estimated time is unacceptable, and the worst part of it all is the horrible communication.
Re: Pissed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds a lot like that douchebag that worked at gap many moons ago then left, started his own "business" and raped a lot of guys and went into hiding, can't remember his name </div></div>
Is that a true story? Not trolling, just curious as I'm looking at a few companies to get some shit done for me. </div></div>
True story, search Chris Mathews, longshot rifles in garden city Missouri
Was a few threads on here about it as well
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds a lot like that douchebag that worked at gap many moons ago then left, started his own "business" and raped a lot of guys and went into hiding, can't remember his name </div></div>
Is that a true story? Not trolling, just curious as I'm looking at a few companies to get some shit done for me. </div></div>
True story, search Chris Mathews, longshot rifles in garden city Missouri
Was a few threads on here about it as well
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