PISTOL BRACE

[Conrad101st]

Justice Department announces new rule to regulate pistol-stabilizing braces | CNN Politics

Attorney General Merrick Garland and Steve Dettelbach, the director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), announced new regulations Friday that would subject pistol-stabilizing braces to additional regulations, including higher taxes, longer waiting periods and...

www.cnn.com

 

[Conrad101st]

I wonder if they really understand the nuance of this statement:

“According to the Justice Department, manufacturers, dealers and individual gun owners have 120 days to register tax-free any existing short-barreled rifles covered by the rule. They can also remove the stabilizing brace or surrender covered short-barreled rifles to the ATF, the department said.””

 

[AllenOne1]

So how does this not become free SBR day? If you have been wanting to convert a standard rifle to an SBR could you just not register it now under the new 120 day rule?

 

[SilentStalkr]

Um, wasn’t the brakes just put on all this with a ruling the other day?

 

[Conrad101st]

Um, wasn’t the breaks just put on all this with a ruling the other day?

What ruling?

I saw one regarding bump stocks but nothing about this.

 

[Huskydriver]

So how does this not become free SBR day? If you have been wanting to convert a standard rifle to an SBR could you just not register it now under the new 120 day rule?

I have been waiting on a couple just for this very idea!

 

[Fig]

The bump stock ruling specifically said that BATFE and DOJ cannot make sweeping changes like this without Congress. This is a massive fuck you to the rule of law by those who are duty bound to uphold it. They lack any honor and will stop at nothing to enact their woke agenda. Criminals all of them.

 

[mrtoyz]

To me this reads that nothing changes. Rifles stay riles unless SBR’d. One of the last lines reads pistol braces are still legal.

 

[TxWelder35]

give it a week or so, there are about to be a lot of lawsuits filed and this “rule” will never see the light of day

 

[Conrad101st]

The bump stock ruling specifically said that BATFE and DOJ cannot make sweeping changes like this without Congress. This is a massive fuck you to the rule of law by those who are duty bound to uphold it. They lack any honor and will stop at nothing to enact their work agenda. Criminals all of them.

The bump stock ban really was bullshit b/c it clearly failed the clear language of the statute.

This is more fuzzy to me (just my opinion) b/c these “braces” are definitely being utilized as rear stocks to let the shooter hold the weapon as a rifle, which likely has a barrel of less than 16 inches.

Apples to oranges so to speak.

 

[SilentStalkr]

What ruling?

I saw one regarding bump stocks but nothing about this.

Look at Fig’s comment.

I have been waiting on a couple just for this very idea!

Yeah that just makes this even more confusing. If you register it with a brace cause they claim it’s an SBR, does that mean it has to keep the brace or can we put a stock on it? I mean if they doing this because in their mind it’s an SBR the most people will just toss the brace and put a stock on it but I’m guessing it has to remain a braced deal, which is stupid. Is it an SBR or not?

The bump stock ruling specifically said that BATFE and DOJ cannot make sweeping changes like this without Congress. This is a massive fuck you to the rule of law by those who are duty bound to uphold it. They lack any honor and will stop at nothing to enact their work agenda. Criminals all of them.

This. The ATF cannot make changes such as this just as we seen with the bumpstock ban last week.

To me this reads that nothing changes. Rifles stay riles unless SBR’d. One of the last lines reads pistol braces are still legal.

Yea that’s not confusing at all. Still legal in what way, registered as an SBR?

give it a week or so, there are about to be a lot of lawsuits filed and this “rule” will never see the light of day

Exactly. Mass noncompliance but I bet most people go right along with it. Might as well just turn all our shit in. Even if you decide to register it, are they gonna be able to register all these within 120 days? Does it just have to be submitted or actually approved within the 120 days?

 

[LawnMM]

So how does this not become free SBR day? If you have been wanting to convert a standard rifle to an SBR could you just not register it now under the new 120 day rule?

Don't fall for it. They're going to lure you in with the promise of a free SBR.

Then they're going to run it through their fuckin ridiculous points system, tell you it doesn't qualify as a braced firearm eligible for the free registration because it's really an unregistered SBR, and then you're on the hook for $200 for something that was perfectly legal when you bought it / built it.

It's not free SBR day, it's amnesty for braces day. Assuming you pass their point system and their own point system says even if you pass, they can still say they've determined that it's an SBR and you fail anyway.

What's worse, you've squeeled on yourself with your name, social, address, and photos and serial of the weapon tantamount to registration.

At that point you have no choice but to comply because you've given them everything they need to prosecute you for an NFA violation if you don't follow through.

Don't be an idiot.

 

[357Max]

You cannot do the free SBR thing with an un-serialized PMF. That's fucking stupid since you'd be engraving the NFA # on it once approved.

You cannot add the free SBR thing to a trust unless it was already in there & why would it be since it wasn't NFA. Muppets!

Reading their BS, it stinks to high heavan of Everytown/Bloomberg/Unfuckable Mommies.

Has the ATF scrubbed the internet of of all there compliance affirmation letters given to and posted by pretty much every manufacturer that made and sold/sells braces??? How about ATF's guidance/clarification that it's ok to shoulder your brace.

Funny how SB tactical's servers were just hacked a few days prior to this latest fuckery. This isn't golf you Muppets, cant put the hole in a different spot every day.

I think many will feel that the flagrant constitutional violation has now reached a point where non-compliance is becoming a duty!
Also applies to those that took the oath and meant it.

 

[mrtoyz]

This is interesting. Went on to look at the rule. Seems to me the only free tax stamp would be for a rifle only. Not a pistol and I’m guessing not an “other”.

 

[Conrad101st]

Slap the brace onto the tube and put a short upper on it.

Take 2 photos, one showing complete rig and one closeup of serial number of lower.

Do it to each lower and off we go.

I suspect that there is no rule that says you can’t use modular parts like braces and uppers on many lowers.

They probably have not thought this out. And they probably do not know the can of worms they opened up.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Just to muddy the waters more from long ago:
1) You can register an AR pistol, then convert it to a rifle and go back to a pistol correct?
2) You cannot register a AR rifle, then convert it to a pistol.

So I buy an "AR pistol with a bace", slap a stock on it, register it with the ATF. Now I have a pistol OR an SBR....right???

 

[wvfarrier]

Glad I never got into these braces...what a cluster!@#$

 

[LawnMM]

Just to muddy the waters more from long ago:
1) You can register an AR pistol, then convert it to a rifle and go back to a pistol correct?
2) You cannot register a AR rifle, then convert it to a pistol.

So I buy an "AR pistol with a bace", slap a stock on it, register it with the ATF. Now I have a pistol OR an SBR....right???

You're low hanging fruit. Try it, let us know how it works out!

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

The scotus will shut this down very quickly
Its total bs and thank GOD for TRUMP who put people on the court who will do something about it. They aren't perfect, but they have done very well on 2A. A Fed judge will stop it before it gets to scotus to be permanently stopped

 

[SilentStalkr]

I feel like this is gonna get slapped down. Hold the line. Better yet, when they go collect all the shit we have literally supplied terrorists with then we might have a conversation about this bullshit.

 

[Desert_Racer]

If it doesn’t get shot down, there will be <1% compliance rate. The ATF can eat the corn out of my shit.

 

[LilGucci]

So how does this not become free SBR day? If you have been wanting to convert a standard rifle to an SBR could you just not register it now under the new 120 day rule?

If it takes them 8 months to process a suppressor application, I highly doubt they'll be able to process 10 million SBR applications in 3 months.

 

[LilGucci]

If it doesn’t get shot down, there will be <1% compliance rate. The ATF can eat the corn out of my shit.

But then a cop can take your gun if they ask for the tax stamp and you have none to show them. It seems like the bigger problem is the illegalizing of SBR's and "pistols" unless they are registered with the feds.

 

[NoDopes]

But how long? This suppressor lawsuit will take over 1.5 years at least.
We need a blanket ruling it's all BS and all thrown out. Any laws congress wants to pass going forward must pass through court first. Not the other way around.

 

[Conrad101st]

If it doesn’t get shot down, there will be <1% compliance rate. The ATF can eat the corn out of my shit.

I disagree very respectfully. Why not register the SBR if it’s tied to a weapon you bought on the market through a NICS check. They already know you got it under the NICS check. It will only increase the value and then you can use it without worrying.

 

[1911hombre]

I disagree very respectfully. Why not register the SBR if it’s tied to a weapon you bought on the market through a NICS check. They already know you got it under the NICS check. It will only increase the value and then you can use it without worrying.

The NICS check doesn’t know what gun you are buying, only type of transaction.

 

[Desert_Racer]

I disagree very respectfully. Why not register the SBR if it’s tied to a weapon you bought on the market through a NICS check. They already know you got it under the NICS check. It will only increase the value and then you can use it without worrying.

I could have bought it then turned right around and sold it. All that 4473 and NICS check proves is that at one point I purchased the firearm.

It wasn’t an SBR for what, 10 years? And now it is? GTFO

 

[Desert_Racer]

But then a cop can take your gun if they ask for the tax stamp and you have none to show them. It seems like the bigger problem is the illegalizing of SBR's and "pistols" unless they are registered with the feds.

Does a cop have the authority to ask for my tax stamp in the first place?

 

[LilGucci]

Does a cop have the authority to ask for my tax stamp in the first place?

I heard that only the ATF can do that, and only while on duty, but I think the bigger picture is that it illegalizes braces in general and the police might decide to act even if that is not their jurisdiction. Why have a brace if you have an SBR tax stamp, and if you just want a brace for its aesthetics, well now the burden of proof is on you to prove you're not a felon.

 

[Desert_Racer]

A “pistol” with a pistol brace on it was legal literally 12 hours ago. Now they’re saying you have 120 days to submit paperwork, reconfigure the weapon, destroy it…or else…because they changed their minds.

You’re completely missing the point here. The only answer is mass non-compliance. Or we can roll over and continue to let them slowly plunge every centimeter of the dick of tyranny into our asses until all we have left is sticks and stones. They can’t arrest millions of people, if millions of people tell them to get fucked.

 

[Chaotic Good]

It wasn’t an SBR for what, 10 years? And now it is? GTFO

Or is it that the ATF legalized SBR's back when they approved braces, and since SBR's are in common use, they shouldn't be regulated under the NFA??

Or, or is it that braces are not stocks, since the ATF said they weren't stocks like two different times...

If you were a lawyer, and the ATF was your client, the first thing you would do is tell your client to STFU, and stop digging holes.

Oh, again COMMON USE!!

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

No, but he can arrest you for having an illegal weapon. Then you, at your expense, will have to prove it is legal and try to get it back.
So you will have time in jail, bail money and legal fees and they will laugh their ass off about fucking with you.

Does a cop have the authority to ask for my tax stamp in the first place?

 

[Desert_Racer]

Or is it that the ATF legalized SBR's back when they approved braces, and since SBR's are in common use, they shouldn't be regulated under the NFA??

Or, or is it that braces are not stocks, since the ATF said they weren't stocks like two different times...

If you were a lawyer, and the ATF was your client, the first thing you would do is tell your client to STFU, and stop digging holes.

Oh, again COMMON USE!!

This guy gets it.

 

[Desert_Racer]

How can a cop verify whether my weapon is or isn’t illegal if he/she/zim/zyr doesn’t have the authority to ask for my tax stamp in the first place?

How many people here have ever been asked to see their tax stamp by anyone with a badge, whether federal or state?

 

[Short-bus]

But how long? This suppressor lawsuit will take over 1.5 years at least.
We need a blanket ruling it's all BS and all thrown out. Any laws congress wants to pass going forward must pass through court first. Not the other way around.

Forgive me if my terminology is incorrect, but a preliminary injunction or TRO, can be placed prior to the end of the 120 days, which effectively places the rule on hold until a court ruling is made on the matter. I imagine that's what will occur next week, or whenever the lawsuits are filed, and when the court can make a preliminary hearing on the matter. I'm sure there are lawyers on here that can enlighten us on the correct procedures, or steps along the way. I imagine that the SCOTUS ruling of WV vs. EPA will be a major point of at least one of the lawsuits. I'm sure someone can argue the angle of Americans with Disabilities act, since there are folks with no hands that cannot submit fingerprint cards because they don't have fingers....which would mean the "rule" discriminates against them.

Lawyers....how far off am I?

Branden

 

[Short-bus]

How can a cop verify whether my weapon is or isn’t illegal if he/she/zim/zyr doesn’t have the authority to ask for my tax stamp in the first place?

How many people here have ever been asked to see their tax stamp by anyone with a badge, whether federal or state?

Only time i've ever heard of them asking for a stamp, or questioning the legal status of a potential NFA item, is when you're already being busted for some other crime, or suspected of another crime. Use the presence of a questionably legal firearm to gain access to the car and conduct a search. I've been in a car full of suppressors, machine guns, and 4 dudes all carrying concealed, and the MoHP was more concerned about the window tint, and the 80mph in a 65.

Branden

 

[clcustom1911]

So how does this not become free SBR day? If you have been wanting to convert a standard rifle to an SBR could you just not register it now under the new 120 day rule?

This is literally gonna be a thing for me. I was wanting to Form 1 by Mp5k and like 3 others anyway. So. This just saved me like 800-1000$

 

[clcustom1911]

Only time i've ever heard of them asking for a stamp, or questioning the legal status of a potential NFA item, is when you're already being busted for some other crime, or suspected of another crime. Use the presence of a questionably legal firearm to gain access to the car and conduct a search. I've been in a car full of suppressors, machine guns, and 4 dudes all carrying concealed, and the MoHP was more concerned about the window tint, and the 80mph in a 65.

Branden

Correct. If people would just shut the fuck up and not vomit information to the police, they wouldn't get searched.

But, because "muh bLuE LiVeS mAtTEr, bRoOOOoo" people exist, they'll always assume cops are the "good guys" and volunteer all kinds of information which will allow the cop to search their shit because "I got nothing to hide."

Fuck that. Shut your fucking mouth when being contacted by police. Be polite, but don't consent to shit, don't admit to shit. Give your required driving documentation with a smile, don't admit to any violation of anything ever about anything.

 

[LawnMM]

Does a cop have the authority to ask for my tax stamp in the first place?

I've heard, can't verify, technically it's just the ATF

How can a cop verify whether my weapon is or isn’t illegal if he/she/zim/zyr doesn’t have the authority to ask for my tax stamp in the first place?

How many people here have ever been asked to see their tax stamp by anyone with a badge, whether federal or state?

Now you're using your noodle. SBRs are illegal just about everywhere WITHOUT a stamp.

So you could try and stand on principle saying you only have to produce the stamp for the ATF, and the response will be, "Cool, you're under arrest for possession of a dangerous/illegal weapon."

That said, I think it's a red herring scenario and kind of dubious legally. I'm trying to think of another object where merely possessing it would be sufficient reasonable suspicion for a contact when the reality is anyone that posses the object likely possesses it legally.

Maybe alcohol for people in their early 20s? You'd be on shaky ground contacting a couple guys, at a bar, and demanding to see ID to verify the beers in their hand were legal to possess.

That's basically what everyone is afraid of with the whole "Cops are going to ask to see my stamp at the gun range" scenario.

Or better yet, the dreaded traffic stop. If the passenger is holding the beer, unopened, it would be like demanding ID from the passenger to verify legal possession secondary to the driver's traffic infraction.

Passengers aren't required to identify themselves on a traffic stop. They haven't committed a violation, the driver is the one being "stopped" not the passenger.

So all these hypothetical scenarios people worry about are pretty far fetched, IMO. If you get popped on a warrant dealing coke out of your apartment and they find a braced AR pistol that breaks the rules, yeah figure that's getting tacked on.

If you're Joe Schmoe at the range, live your fuckin life. The man ain't after you. Unless you give him a reason, so don't.

 

[atomic41]

Mark makes some great points in the video below, I especially like the history behind why a SBR is an NFA item. I did not know this and it seems like we should be going on the offense regarding that point. His videos are very educational I recommend using them as a solid resource.

For those thinking that you can just get a free tax stamp and swap out the brace to a stock, you better wade in carefully. This regulation was previewed to the public a few months ago and there was something built in to prevent you doing that. I don't recall what it was but I'm sure it will be brought up soon because everyone is going to pour over this 400 page disaster quickly.

 

[NoDopes]

Forgive me if my terminology is incorrect, but a preliminary injunction or TRO, can be placed prior to the end of the 120 days,

This recently played out in a new NY crap gun law.
First appeals court issued TRO.
Next higher court threw it out and said start enforcing crazy law until final ruling.
Supreme Court said, we aren't stepping in, let's see how this plays out .. even though they said the higher court had no justification to stop the TRO.

 

[Smitty192]

This recently played out in a new NY crap gun law.
First court issued TRO.
Next higher court threw it out and said start enforcing crazy law until final ruling.
Supreme Court said, we aren't stepping in, let's see how this plays out .. even though they said the higher court had no justification to stop the TRO.

The courts are full of communist assholes. SCOTUS is not going to uphold the Constitution.

Rule of law is dead...period.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Just a few things I found which lead my thoughts as I'm now in possession of an SBR: Of course I'm "required" to register the weapon within the 120 days to "be legal" in owning an SBR.

Thru-out the reading it's pretty clear what's been decided.
-Your "pistol w/brace" is now an SBR.
-You can destroy the weapon.
-You can register the "SBR//pistol w/brace" under NFA for free during the 120 day period.
-You will be allowed "to configure" a rifle ("SBR//pistol w/brace") to a pistol by removing the brace during the 120 days. They will play nice and not seek enforcement actions against you. (I'd suspect you need to be sure there's no way to attach a stock in the future) (This is following the long time history you cannot make a rifle into a pistol)
-You can convert the "SBR//pistol w/brace" into a rifle to place it outside the NFA requirements. (This is following the long time history that you CAN make a pistol into a rifle.)
-You are going to retain possession of your "SBR//pistol w/brace" during the "paperwork submittal" to register as an SBR.


Pg 88
Additionally, the individual may reconfigure the firearm to remove it from the scope of the NFA (e.g., the removal and replacement of a barrel of less than 16inches with a longer barrel) and maintain possession of the firearm.

Pg 192
An individual may register the firearm in accordance with the provisions of the NFA or remove any offending characteristics to remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA (e.g., the removal and replacement of a barrel of less than 16 inches with a longer barrel). See section V.B of this preamble. Nor does the rule preclude all uses of the “stabilizing brace” or firearms with “stabilizing braces” attached. See Lucas, 505 U.S. at 1017–18 (applying the per se rule where all use of property is prohibited). “Stabilizing braces” may continue to be affixed on a short-barreled rifle so long as the firearm is registered, transferred, and taxed in accordance with the NFA.

Pg 210

The options for current unlicensed possessors include the removal and replacement of the offending feature (the barrel less than 16 inches); submission of an ATF E-Form 1 by [INSERT DATE 120 DAYS AFTER DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER], to register the firearm as a short-barreled rifle; removal of the “stabilizing brace” so that it cannot be reattached to the firearm; turning the firearm into a local ATF office; or destroying the firearm.

Pg 224
The Department recognizes that the removal of a “stabilizing brace” from a firearm that was originally received as a “short-barreled rifle” would cause the firearm to become a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined by the NFA. However, the Department, in its enforcement discretion, will allow individuals to reconfigure the firearm to a pistol, so long as the reconfiguration is completed within 120 days after this rule is published. This reconfiguration may bring the firearm into compliance with State law even if the State restricts possession of short-barreled rifles. It may also be possible for the individual to consider other modifications to the firearm that are not included within this rule that would bring the firearm into compliance with State law.

Pg 248
With respect to the cost of replacing the buffer tube with a pistol tube, the rule does not require such a replacement.


By no means am I suggesting this is all okay. I'm simply pulling out the points as written in this "rule".

 

[AngryKoala]

Slap the brace onto the tube and put a short upper on it.

Take 2 photos, one showing complete rig and one closeup of serial number of lower.

Do it to each lower and off we go.

I suspect that there is no rule that says you can’t use modular parts like braces and uppers on many lowers.

They probably have not thought this out. And they probably do not know the can of worms they opened up.

Cool, and when congress tells the atf they can't remove tax requirements then what? Pay up or get your dog shot.

 

[Longshot231]

 

[Longshot231]

What this new rule will do for reducing crime and improving public safety will be like what the 18th amendment did for reducing alcohol abuse.

 

[Longshot231]

Full disclosure: I have only started watching this video now. It's a long one but Mr. Kirk is usually very informative and worth listening to.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

A “pistol” with a pistol brace on it was legal literally 12 hours ago. Now they’re saying you have 120 days to submit paperwork, reconfigure the weapon, destroy it…or else…because they changed their minds.

You’re completely missing the point here. The only answer is mass non-compliance. Or we can roll over and continue to let them slowly plunge every centimeter of the dick of tyranny into our asses until all we have left is sticks and stones. They can’t arrest millions of people, if millions of people tell them to get fucked.

You have an assault stick and war stone?! THINK OF THE CHILDREN

 

[tylerradke]

The number of people in here worried about compliance is truly alarming.

 

[tucaz]

But then a cop can take your gun if they ask for the tax stamp and you have none to show them. It seems like the bigger problem is the illegalizing of SBR's and "pistols" unless they are registered with the feds.

i’ve never had a cop ask me anything about nfa paper work and once was shooting my f/a mini uzi when he rolled up.

i dont think local LE wants to get involved with nfa items. not their job really.