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Sidearms & Scatterguns Pistol for Grizzly Bear Country
- Thread starter hoosierswat
- Start date
Bigger is better and pack the largest caliber you can shoot well.
Having extra rounds is nice but hits and the first couple are key in putting down big critters. Revolvers have an advantage of being pretty reliable ( they can fail also) and greater flexibility in ammo. I like large bullets and hard cast solids or FMJ rounds from a magnum revolver penetrate better than most automatic calibers.
You can always get a .25 auto and a girlfriend....
Having extra rounds is nice but hits and the first couple are key in putting down big critters. Revolvers have an advantage of being pretty reliable ( they can fail also) and greater flexibility in ammo. I like large bullets and hard cast solids or FMJ rounds from a magnum revolver penetrate better than most automatic calibers.
You can always get a .25 auto and a girlfriend....
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-side-arms-k-bars/188309-500-s-w-magnum-vs-9mm.html
I also shot a buffalo with this load, I may have been high on adrenaline or something but I swear it actually picked the buffalo up off the ground when it hit.
I also shot a buffalo with this load, I may have been high on adrenaline or something but I swear it actually picked the buffalo up off the ground when it hit.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-side-arms-k-bars/188309-500-s-w-magnum-vs-9mm.html
I also shot a buffalo with this load, I may have been high on adrenaline or something but I swear it actually picked the buffalo up off the ground when it hit.
I also shot a buffalo with this load, I may have been high on adrenaline or something but I swear it actually picked the buffalo up off the ground when it hit.
being a late comer to this debate ... my hunting carry is a 3" round grip custom ruger redhawk
in 45lc, I load it with 45 Colt +P 300gr BCFP from Grizzly Cartridge Co.
I have dispatched pig's and other game with it. but if I was headed to Alaska
and the big Brown country .. I take my ruger super redhawk which is cut to
5" in 454 Casull, I'd load it with 454 Casull 320gr PUNCH same company ..
the punch bullets are hand turned solids and the cat's meow in my book.
after that it would just come down to hitting the right spot. they say
the Grizz's brain pan is directly behind the snout, so shoot thru the mouth.
this just my thought's, even though I like the 22 in another party member's knee cap
and leave for bait idea
in 45lc, I load it with 45 Colt +P 300gr BCFP from Grizzly Cartridge Co.
I have dispatched pig's and other game with it. but if I was headed to Alaska
and the big Brown country .. I take my ruger super redhawk which is cut to
5" in 454 Casull, I'd load it with 454 Casull 320gr PUNCH same company ..
the punch bullets are hand turned solids and the cat's meow in my book.
after that it would just come down to hitting the right spot. they say
the Grizz's brain pan is directly behind the snout, so shoot thru the mouth.
this just my thought's, even though I like the 22 in another party member's knee cap
and leave for bait idea
Backpacker shoots, kills grizzly in Alaska park
Associated Press, May 31, 2010
ANCHORAGE, Alaska – A backpacker shot and killed a grizzly bear with his handgun in Alaska's Denali National Park, officials said.
A man and woman reported that they were hiking Friday evening when the bear emerged from trailside brush and charged the woman, park spokeswoman Kris Fister said in a statement.
The man fired nine rounds from his .45 caliber, semiautomatic pistol at the animal, which then stopped and walked into the brush.
The two reported the shooting to rangers, who restricted access to the Igloo Canyon area for fear that the bear was wounded and dangerous.
On Saturday, rangers found the dead bear about 100 feet from the shooting site.
Park officials are determining the justification for the shooting. It's legal to carry firearms in that area of the park but illegal to discharge them.
Rangers said it was the first known instance of a grizzly bear being shot by a visitor in the wilderness portion of Denali, formerly called Mount McKinley National Park.
Associated Press, May 31, 2010
ANCHORAGE, Alaska – A backpacker shot and killed a grizzly bear with his handgun in Alaska's Denali National Park, officials said.
A man and woman reported that they were hiking Friday evening when the bear emerged from trailside brush and charged the woman, park spokeswoman Kris Fister said in a statement.
The man fired nine rounds from his .45 caliber, semiautomatic pistol at the animal, which then stopped and walked into the brush.
The two reported the shooting to rangers, who restricted access to the Igloo Canyon area for fear that the bear was wounded and dangerous.
On Saturday, rangers found the dead bear about 100 feet from the shooting site.
Park officials are determining the justification for the shooting. It's legal to carry firearms in that area of the park but illegal to discharge them.
Rangers said it was the first known instance of a grizzly bear being shot by a visitor in the wilderness portion of Denali, formerly called Mount McKinley National Park.
Hell, there's cases of them staying in the game even longer. Thing about super-large animals is that their metabolism and heart rate are extremely slow. My buddy shot a moose through it's left atrium and right ventricle in January. thing looked at him like he was retarded, charged at him, then it just sat down after about ten minutes of trying to follow him through the brush and died a few minutes after that.
it worked out pretty good because he got it to chase him toward the road. dropped 20 yards from the pavement.
Same thing can happen to a grizz.
That is a nice training scenario and this is the training and test for qualifying but 40 yards is way to far. Plus, bear attacks do not come from straight head on. While it has been documented and can happen, most bear attacks do not come from half a foot field away. Ever bear I have encounter at that distance barely knew I was there and/or paid little attention to me. On a wilderness run one time, I turned a corner and in the open area probable 25-30 yards young griz was pawing on a log. I slowed down, he popped his head up, stuck his nose up, sniffed, looked, sniffed, went back to eating.
99% of all bear encounters are just that, a bear who is not happy you are there and wants you to leave so they act accordingly to scare you off. Even if you surprise ole booboo a quick blast of bear spray is best. Mama with cubs or ole granddad on his food cache, totally different with the food cache the biggest threat and the greatest risk to happen to the backcountry users
For those who have never stood nose to nose with a large brown bear, when you do, a 30mm bushmaster is not enough firepower. To witness a wounded 1200 pound raging beast run down hill into an alder thicket plowing through like a D10 Cat, ripping and flinging arm sized alders out of the ground, basketball sized stones in the air like a human can a baseball, it cannot be described and no way to understand the savagery of a large raging bear. Bear spray avoids a wounded booboo.
Years ago 357 was considered min, then 41, then 44 /, then, and now its the 10mm. None of them have the penetration a 3030 lever gun. From my experience and interviewing bear encounters, if and when, said firearm has to be fired by one hand stuck into the fur of a beast on top after rolling you around, no semi auto would be in my conversation. Stick that G20 in the hide and it comes out of battery. Light weight wheel gun with hot loads can jump timing or have additional rounds jam on the forcing cone, I have seen a few light SW and Taurus with a hot load jammed.
12ga with slugs is best but hard to fish, cut wood, do chores with it slung on your body so it gets sat down and forgotten. A wheel gun in a chest holster while not the best is always with you. Pepper spray is lighter, works very well, does not wound a bear. Pick your poison?
Bear awareness is best but not always 100% because:
#1 Bears are very unpredictable!
#2 Every bear encounter is different!
#3 Reference #1 and #2!!!!!
I have a book on bear attacks ( several years old now ) and at the time of publishing there were no known accounts of brown bear attacks ever being stopped by any handgun. numerous bear have been killed by handguns, only after serious mauling to the person being attacked. It is widely known that once a bear begins his charge it usually takes numerous rifle shots to "stop" the bear I know a gent who lives in Charlotte N.C. ( some of you know him too ) he owns a precision rifle and stock co.. He was hunting brown bear and came up on one unexpectedly close over a ridge and was too close to do anything but shoot with his .357 revolver. The bear did not know he was present. He emptied his gun as fast as he could in the neck and chest area while the bear was eating. Any other scenario than the way this went down would have been very catastrophic for him. the bear was killed, luckily. A handgun in bear country is for last ditch effort. There is no guarentee REGARDLESS of caliber. I have been in the Alaska bush and had a Ruger .44 mag. as backup and it did little to give me a good feeling of protection.
carry the biggest you are able to pact handily. As for multiple shots..... it's hard to shoot a gun that's been knocked twenty feet away from you after being "freight trained" by a bear and he's dragging you across the tundra. We all seem to think in terms of perfect conditions, truth is,,,, perfect conditions rarely happen!
carry the biggest you are able to pact handily. As for multiple shots..... it's hard to shoot a gun that's been knocked twenty feet away from you after being "freight trained" by a bear and he's dragging you across the tundra. We all seem to think in terms of perfect conditions, truth is,,,, perfect conditions rarely happen!
So I've read through this whole thread and my biggest question is why no one has mentioned a boar spear.
Night eagle
Night eagle
I'm a big 10mm fan and carry it for lots of things, but in Griz country I carry a .44 Mag with heavy hard cast bullets. A 10mm might do the job, saw a video with the Nuge taking a water buffalo with a 10mm, but for me, when it's my skin and nobody backing me up, I'm going to take the 44 Mag as the minimum. I'd feel better with a 460 S&W but the gun is too big and heavy, at least one that is shootable is.
I'd pick a S&W 500. I'd think that anything that can use a round called a T-Rex Thumper can take down a bear.
I know this is a pistol question, but I like to carry an 18" 870 with 600 gr. Brenneke slugs. I don't want anything to do with trying to kill a grizzly with a pistol, ANY PISTOL. Those Brenneke's are nasty, and you can't get enough nasty.
Never bring a knife to a gunfight (as a primary weapon),
never bring a little gun to a gunfight,
Never go without friends....
ALWAYS bring friends with BIG guns.
Make note of the references to the shotgun with Brenneke slugs.
Unfortunately, .50 Brownings are large and unwieldy...
never bring a little gun to a gunfight,
Never go without friends....
ALWAYS bring friends with BIG guns.
Make note of the references to the shotgun with Brenneke slugs.
Unfortunately, .50 Brownings are large and unwieldy...
My dad and I are going on an elk hunt in Wyoming during the last week of September. Had the trip planned since last July, and I've been trying to decide which gun to use as a side arm for grizzly bear. We will be 9 miles south of Yellowstone, and 18 miles/full day's horseback ride from the trail head. The true middle of nowhere. Being from Texas, and never having hunted for anything besides pheasant north of the Red River, I'm not used to being in the woods with an animal like a Grizzly Bear. I've read numerous forums/threads/magazine articles/etc, and the blanket general consensus is that there is a very slim chance that you will be able to stop an attacking grizzly with any weapon at all. However, there is a chance though, and I want to have a weapon that will best suit that small chance. I've heard plenty people say not to even worry about carrying a pistol because it won't save you anyway, but if I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go out giving every effort to survive. Based on my research, I've reached the following conclusions
- Must be a revolver
- Need the most powerful round that I can actually hit something with at close range
- Must be able to deliver a somewhat accurate follow up shot, but it will most likely occur at point blank range
- Must be able to function at point blank range
- Shortest barrel possible for maneuverability, but not short enough to hinder my ability to hit the moving target
- Must be handle one of the "hotter" loads from Buffalo Bore or Garrett
- Preferable that I could shoot with one hand if I had to (not a must)
I'm a big fan of S&W, but they can't handle the hotter loads, so they were ruled out. I ended up buying 2 different big bore revolvers to try out, the Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull and .44 Mag. Both are custom cut down to 3" and have a custom target crown (I bought them this way). They're basically the same thing as the "Alaskan" model. I then got the hottest Buffalo Bore loads available, which from what I can tell are the hottest loads you can get. For the .454 I have the 325gr L.B.T. - L.F.N. at 1525 fps and the .44 Mag 305gr LBT - LFN at 1325 fps. I've tried them out, and the .454 is completely out of the picture. I could barely keep the gun in both hands, much less hit something and/or be able to shoot it with one hand. The .44 Mag is much more manageable, even with such a hot load. So I put the .454 up on gunbroker to sell it, but after awhile I started thinking I should stick with it and just use a lower load, because even the lighter .454 loads are heavier than the heaviest .44 Mags. Unfortunately, the gun sold before I could take the auction down. I still have the .44 Mag, and I'm trying to decide between keeping it or getting another .454. But if I got one, I would want to get a little longer barrel and get it ported. I'm thinking a 4.5" ported barrel could really help with recoil. Couple that with one of the lighter "Grizzly" loads from Garrett.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a gunsmith that can cut the barrel down and do the porting, and do so before September? Magna-port is completely backlogged for at least 6 months last time I checked.
I also got a Marlin 45-70 lever action, and I have the Buffalo Bore hot grizzly loads for it too. Since I'll be hunting with my dad and a guide, only one of us will really be hunting at a time, and the other will just be along for the ride. We're using the same rifle (.300 WSM being built by Russell Banks at Scout Supply Company), and my dad is bringing his .270 as a back up (mainly because it's sentimental...my grandpa (his dad) used the rifle on an elk hunting trip himself), but I figured the one not hunting could carry the 45-70 very easily with a sling. It would be a better option than the .270 in a bear situation. The side arm would really be used more when on horseback, around camp, or any other area where you wouldn't have your rifle. And since I would be using a shoulder or chest holster to carry it, that would kind of rule out using it when actually hunting because I'll have binoculars strapped to the front of my chest too. So that's where the 45-70 comes into play.
Pretty much everything I've read in other places was covered in this thread too. I'm not a subscriber to the 15 rounds of a lighter caliber is better than 2 rounds of a really heavy big bore revolver. My dad is though. He wants to get a glock .45 since he has a glock 9mm.
- Must be a revolver
- Need the most powerful round that I can actually hit something with at close range
- Must be able to deliver a somewhat accurate follow up shot, but it will most likely occur at point blank range
- Must be able to function at point blank range
- Shortest barrel possible for maneuverability, but not short enough to hinder my ability to hit the moving target
- Must be handle one of the "hotter" loads from Buffalo Bore or Garrett
- Preferable that I could shoot with one hand if I had to (not a must)
I'm a big fan of S&W, but they can't handle the hotter loads, so they were ruled out. I ended up buying 2 different big bore revolvers to try out, the Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull and .44 Mag. Both are custom cut down to 3" and have a custom target crown (I bought them this way). They're basically the same thing as the "Alaskan" model. I then got the hottest Buffalo Bore loads available, which from what I can tell are the hottest loads you can get. For the .454 I have the 325gr L.B.T. - L.F.N. at 1525 fps and the .44 Mag 305gr LBT - LFN at 1325 fps. I've tried them out, and the .454 is completely out of the picture. I could barely keep the gun in both hands, much less hit something and/or be able to shoot it with one hand. The .44 Mag is much more manageable, even with such a hot load. So I put the .454 up on gunbroker to sell it, but after awhile I started thinking I should stick with it and just use a lower load, because even the lighter .454 loads are heavier than the heaviest .44 Mags. Unfortunately, the gun sold before I could take the auction down. I still have the .44 Mag, and I'm trying to decide between keeping it or getting another .454. But if I got one, I would want to get a little longer barrel and get it ported. I'm thinking a 4.5" ported barrel could really help with recoil. Couple that with one of the lighter "Grizzly" loads from Garrett.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a gunsmith that can cut the barrel down and do the porting, and do so before September? Magna-port is completely backlogged for at least 6 months last time I checked.
I also got a Marlin 45-70 lever action, and I have the Buffalo Bore hot grizzly loads for it too. Since I'll be hunting with my dad and a guide, only one of us will really be hunting at a time, and the other will just be along for the ride. We're using the same rifle (.300 WSM being built by Russell Banks at Scout Supply Company), and my dad is bringing his .270 as a back up (mainly because it's sentimental...my grandpa (his dad) used the rifle on an elk hunting trip himself), but I figured the one not hunting could carry the 45-70 very easily with a sling. It would be a better option than the .270 in a bear situation. The side arm would really be used more when on horseback, around camp, or any other area where you wouldn't have your rifle. And since I would be using a shoulder or chest holster to carry it, that would kind of rule out using it when actually hunting because I'll have binoculars strapped to the front of my chest too. So that's where the 45-70 comes into play.
Pretty much everything I've read in other places was covered in this thread too. I'm not a subscriber to the 15 rounds of a lighter caliber is better than 2 rounds of a really heavy big bore revolver. My dad is though. He wants to get a glock .45 since he has a glock 9mm.
I don't frequent Grizzly country but pretty much any other terrain where I hunt I will carry my Glock 20 in 10mm. I use a Glock for concealed carry, so I am familiar with the platform and shoot the 10mm enough at the range that I feel competent. I use Doubletap 200 grain Nosler as the load when in the field. Combine this with 15 rounds in the magazine, a gun that I can carry no matter what the weather and I feel good to go.
All this discussion misses the Point!
I say, go BMG or go home! This is my pistol of choice for bear country.....
I say, go BMG or go home! This is my pistol of choice for bear country.....
From what I understand, some Alaskan guides carry the Glock 20 as protection for Bears. Do a google search for it. Also, you may want to compare the ballistic data of the 44 and the hot loaded 10mm before you make your final decision. Of the two, I perfer the high capacity magazine of the Glock 20. When it all comes down to it, it doesn't matter how powerful the pistol is.....it's how well you can put the first, second, third, or fourth shot into the "Honey Hole". If you can't put any shots where they need to go with that 454 pretty quick then you just as soon bring a Mark III with some nice 22 hollow points.
I have a S&W 629...but if I was worried about Alaskan Brown Bears, I'd get a S&W .460 Magnum. Practice with .45 Colt or .454 Casull, .460 when you're in the woods.
FH
FH
Magnum Research BFR in .45-70. Fill that thing in with some Garrett or Buffalo Bore rounds and go hunting. Except I'd cut the barrel down from 7.5" to 4" or 5".
I hunt around and for bears every year and I have gone to a glock 20 as my woods carry gun. I have watched jacked up bears continue to run after there vitals have been destroyed by rifle shots. So my thinking is the only way to shit a full charge down is to shut down the nervous system. So I like the idea of multiple quick shots.
My good friend successfully hunted a grizzly with only a recurve bow researched this as well. He decided to carry a tactical shotgun. I thing he used the Benelli 12 g slug and 00 alternating each round. More to carry but he didn't mind.
+1 hsm has a good bear load tailored for that revolver and those garret hammerheads hit like a lightning bolt. Fuck a 500 smith, I'm shooting a RIFLE CARTRIDGE at a wounded bear, or anything else that intends to maim me.. other option might be a serbu shorty loaded with slugs. Seen them holstered for exactly that purpose. 3 shots of slug can deter an awful lot..
The Serbu with slugs is a decent option but to get full potency from the load I would opt for a bit longer barrel. Mine struggles with rifled slugs, they just don't get enough speed.
Never seen any speed reports for the serbu loaded with slugs, have shot a pumpkin with buckshot out of one though and the results were nothing short of astounding. That said it still would take a back seat to a BFR, I want one to compliment my ruger number 1 but being a cheap ass I haven't pulled the trigger on buying one. Theyre pretty awesome to shoot though, recoil was no where near as bad as I expected, I thought it would kick like my number 1 which is quite a lot but it wasn't much more than a stout 44 load as far as felt recoil.
Buckshot won't do shit to a charging grizzly. I don't care to be dealing with no bear inside of 15 yards. That's about the effective range of a Serbu. They are a breaching gun, primarily. Not a fighting gun.
Timing is perfect on this. Headed out for bear hunt early Sept. I will share last years bear hunt with you guys if you will indulge me. Buddy was about a quarter mile away watching the same creek bed I was from an elevated position. I heard him shoot and knew he hit what he was aiming at by the sound of the report. I caught up with him 45 minutes later he had a beautiful color phase sow in tow. His adrenaline dump was still going strong shaky hands rapid breath etc....said he is watching creek bed and feels hair on the back of his neck stand up. Turns slowly to see the sow 30 ft away front paws slightly lifted of the ground looking right at him sniffing the air. He rolled to his side never even shouldering his 300 win mag. Shot her center mass. He has had rounds fly his way and Iis no stranger to stress. Oh these we were hunting are just the little black ones not the monsters
Needless to say we r both carrying pistols this year. Will post a pic when I get moment.
Needless to say we r both carrying pistols this year. Will post a pic when I get moment.
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I reckon most of the instances of being actually charged by a bear are going to be within 30 yards or so. In those instances 9 38 cal pellets, moving at 1100 plus fps, hitting a bear in the face with the energy of each pellet equaling that of a 38 special, should be a pretty great method of altering a bears thought process. As far as losing speed to a short barrel I'm not sure I agree, its basically a pistol powder that delivers a charge, its meant to be quick burning and work in barrels as short as just a few inches, not sure how much would be lost by going from 18 to 8 inches but it shouldnt be that significant
How much time do you have behind a Serbu shotgun?
Because I will tell you right now, from experience with the weapon, that delivering a critical area hit under stress with NO sights will be very difficult. And remember we are talking about losing your life potentially. You have to completely guess with a Serbu.
Try doing that on a charging bear, in the head, with buckshot..... I don't see your chances as being good. Losing speed over 10" of barrel is very relevant as those pellets are not going to be equivalent to a 38 cal pistol.
I would definitely go with the S&W 500 Mag, with some of Hornady's 500gr bullets. Those things have a TON of energy
.44 Mag. Talked to a local in Breckenridge when we were at the ski house. He was attacked taking his trash out. 1 round in the head was what it took. It actually got to him and was pushing him into the ground when he pulled it from his holster and shot it. His arm had some wicked scars. He said a .45 auto hollow will do it.
I asked him this same question. He said buy something that you can easily find ammo for. He recommended a .44 mag.
I asked him this same question. He said buy something that you can easily find ammo for. He recommended a .44 mag.
Not sure I agree with the 45 auto having enough juice and I am die hard proponent of the 45. 44 is definitely a good starting point
A grizzly was on top of your friend, pushing him into the ground and he was able to draw and fire a shot to the head?
How big was said bear? Because that much downward force is likely to do some serious damage to your ribs and internals.
A grizzly was on top of your friend, pushing him into the ground and he was able to draw and fire a shot to the head?
How big was said bear? Because that much downward force is likely to do some serious damage to your ribs and internals.
I cannot attest to the story's truth but the scars were pretty convincing. He said he put his arm up as a natural reflex. As the bear hit him, it bit down on his left arm and pushed him off his feet and onto his back. Luckily his left arm went up and left his right hand, his shooting hand, free to draw the gun. It wasn't an aimed shot. He just drew and placed the barrel on the first thing he could. He was supposedly holding the pistol sideways (like a rapper HAHA!). The recoil shot it back up to his face but it didn't hit him. I had the same doubts too. But his story added up to me. Just my 2 cents. Didn't mean to start anything.
Oh, I was just curious. It's a big story but like you said there is no way to be 100% sure it's accurate. Im sure he could have got attacked but to the exact details, I'm sure his memory is foggy given the adrenaline rush and trauma he suffered. But at least he was able to tell any story at all!
Wintermute was right on the money....very seldom will you have the chance to utilize your firearm in a serious attack vs. bluff. I live in an area...NW Wyoming just east of Yellowstone, that sees attacks every year, with a significant percent fatal. Only once in the past 8-10 years has a firearm been used successfully to fend off an attack and then it wasn't the person getting chewed up that fired the shots. My advice...carry what you THINK will do the job and then pray you never need it. Don't tromp around in Grizzly country with your head up your butt. Be aware of your surroundings and don't poke around in areas with limited sight distance. If you see the bear first and can retreat without being seen do so...if its a sow with cubs she doesn't need an excuse. If you stumble onto a kill its also time to leave. If you're hunting in bear country and a bear beats you to your deer/elk/whatever....sorry its now theirs. Here in Wyoming you'd best have teeth marks on you if you shoot a grizzly....the fines and legal hassles are crazy.
I wouldn't give a shit about fines or legal hassles. Whether I am able to deter a bear or not with a handgun is a moot point to me. I am going to do whatever I can to get away alive.
I am not an experienced hunter but can someone explain how a slug gun would be questionable to stop a grizzly but my friend has a 1000 plus pound grizzly in his trophy room he killed with his simple recurve bow.
Seems like a hot 44mag round would do the trick. I know of some super big boar hogs with thick shields that were not looking to rush anymore after taking on a hit from one. granted they aren't a bear but penetration wise and stopping a charging animal would seem the same concept.
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