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Night Vision Pixels on Target Voodoo-S “Official” Horta Review and Other Stuff Thread
- Thread starter TheHorta
- Start date
Yeah but, Im getting worried Buck Fiden is gonna come sniffing around here soon.Again with the R Kelly stuff. You would think this was an Arken threadSorry, had to
First range test under our belt, and I'm very impressed with some things and a little more grounded in my expectations for these units.
Brought a handful of rifles out, and did a shooting test with a mk12-style AR with the 2.5-10x42 NF and a buddy's set up similarly but with the 4.5-14x50 mk4. Got a few more pics through the 1-10x24 vortex, but didn't shoot the thermals on the SCAR this time. We used some of the 1" ThermBright target repair stickers as aiming points on cardboard at 50yd. I believe @DownRangeThermal sent those out to the lr night shoot we did in OH 2yr back. Based on the resolution we were getting on target, I think we'd have to cluster 6 or 8 of them together if we wanted to shoot at 100yd. Conditions were overcast with crunchy snow on the ground, at 24degF.
Here's an image showing the vertical offset with this particular setup. Definitely not perfectly centered, but pretty close.
The procedure outlined in the VooDoo-S manual and quick-reference card has you hold the rifle steady and flip the thermal back and forth in front of the scope to check for noticeable shift in the POA image. These images don't represent the shift, just the change in view for a target at 50yd. You can see the Wilcox mount blurry there at the corner of the scope image, as it wouldn't flop completely out of the way while the PEQ-2 was still attached. I didn't observe any significant shift when doing this first step - the thermal image seems to line up quite nicely in the scope.
Here was the shooting order we went through on this first rifle -
We repeated the factory reset and got it back to 0/0 and put it on the other mk12-style rifle, which had 4.5x at the low-end and a bit closer alignment -
Did another zero confirmation before shooting with the thermal, then shot a group with it flipped into place and found zero offset between POA/POI at 0/0 adjustments on the VooDoo. Here's an example of what the target looked like at 4.5x -
After doing the shooting, we cleared things out and put the VooDoo on the SCAR that had the gen3 1-10 on it. Thanks for being our downrange thermal targetry, @DOC-PGH ! This first shot shows the target backer at 50yd and the second shooter at 200yd, zoomed to approx 2x. The VooDoo screen tunnels out at 1x, showing the full rectangular perimeter in black.
Next is the same view, but at 4x -
And here's 10x -
I wasn't able to get a great shot through the 1-10 + the SkeetIRx, but here's one at the 50yd target. Its much wider FoV means less pixels in a given area and lower resolution on the target. The thermal target stickers got very mushy and it didn't like much zoom at all. This is about 3x, sorry again for the bad photo quality - the lens of the Skeet seemed to distort much more at the edges and throw off the camera focus.
Upcoming comparisons will include digital zoom added on top of the 1x unity perspective, and I'll probably continue using the 1-10 as it really seems like the best fit for something like this that gets quite pixelated above 4x.
In summary, it seems like a really great short to midrange clipon that delivers on the promise to deliver very minimal shift when set up correctly. Stretching much past 4x is probably not a great idea, and you don't get much resolution on warm targets past 200 that would tell you what they're holding, etc.
The manual (which is marked ITAR controlled) shows multiple examples of rifle setups and stresses the importance of the vertical offset between thermal and day scope. It mentioned spacers available to change the height of the VooDoo. You'll see here an EOTech on a Unity riser is obviously much too high to view through when using the Wilcox mount, and you'd need to raise it up on another riser or other solution to work well.
It's a really nice small size and feels quite sturdy. With the longer rifles we could barely feel the added weight on the rail. The knurled battery cap is a huge upgrade and the eyepiece stands out far enough to clamp a camera mount on.
By featuring a 15deg horizontal field of view, the VooDoo-S is a bit wider angle than the base LWTS (12.4deg), NOX-35(12.2deg), and incoming ClipIR (12.4deg), but not quite as wide as the iRay MH-25 (17.5deg) or certainly the SkeetIRx (22deg) or NOX-18 (24.3deg). It seems to really like a base 2-3x magnification, and gets too pixelated for my tastes above 4x.
Here's a few side-by-sides with the Skeet to show the difference in 22 versus 15deg FoV. While they're both presenting a 1x image to the viewer, the FoV on the Skeet presents much more of the scene and fills the eyepiece much more like a PVS-14 does. The VooDoo definitely feels like a small screen placed a distance away and needs that extra 2-3x to make the most of its resolution. I wouldn't take these images to represent comparative crispness between the two units, just a comparison of field of view. When zooming into the VooDoo, you would certainly have more "pixels on target" for a given subject. You'll notice each object within frame is the same size between the two, but the Skeet (on top, more blue) shows more of the periphery.
Here's a quick overlay to show relative screen size between the two units -
Looking forward to some more range time tomorrow, where I'll be focusing more on capturing video through the units to show how nice the thermal image really is at the distances it appears to be designed for. Will try stretching things a bit more and get some cows at 4-500yd, etc.
Brought a handful of rifles out, and did a shooting test with a mk12-style AR with the 2.5-10x42 NF and a buddy's set up similarly but with the 4.5-14x50 mk4. Got a few more pics through the 1-10x24 vortex, but didn't shoot the thermals on the SCAR this time. We used some of the 1" ThermBright target repair stickers as aiming points on cardboard at 50yd. I believe @DownRangeThermal sent those out to the lr night shoot we did in OH 2yr back. Based on the resolution we were getting on target, I think we'd have to cluster 6 or 8 of them together if we wanted to shoot at 100yd. Conditions were overcast with crunchy snow on the ground, at 24degF.
Here's an image showing the vertical offset with this particular setup. Definitely not perfectly centered, but pretty close.
The procedure outlined in the VooDoo-S manual and quick-reference card has you hold the rifle steady and flip the thermal back and forth in front of the scope to check for noticeable shift in the POA image. These images don't represent the shift, just the change in view for a target at 50yd. You can see the Wilcox mount blurry there at the corner of the scope image, as it wouldn't flop completely out of the way while the PEQ-2 was still attached. I didn't observe any significant shift when doing this first step - the thermal image seems to line up quite nicely in the scope.
Here was the shooting order we went through on this first rifle -
- Started with 10rd shoot-in after having cleaned the barrel recently, on dot torque dot #8
- A) 5rd 'zero' group with IMI 77gr, marked (A), showing POI offset approx 1" low and 0.5" right
- B) Install VooDoo-S in Wilcox mount, factory-reset and focused. Shot three rounds at (B1), removed from mount, reinstalled, fired 3 more rounds at (B2)
- C) Adjusted POI on VooDoo to +1 vert, +2 horiz, shot 3rd at (C)
- D) Adjusted POI to +0 vert, -2 horiz, shot 3rd at (D)
- E) Adjusted POI to +0 vert, +1 horiz, shot 3rd at (E) and was satisfied with matchup to day scope
We repeated the factory reset and got it back to 0/0 and put it on the other mk12-style rifle, which had 4.5x at the low-end and a bit closer alignment -
Did another zero confirmation before shooting with the thermal, then shot a group with it flipped into place and found zero offset between POA/POI at 0/0 adjustments on the VooDoo. Here's an example of what the target looked like at 4.5x -
After doing the shooting, we cleared things out and put the VooDoo on the SCAR that had the gen3 1-10 on it. Thanks for being our downrange thermal targetry, @DOC-PGH ! This first shot shows the target backer at 50yd and the second shooter at 200yd, zoomed to approx 2x. The VooDoo screen tunnels out at 1x, showing the full rectangular perimeter in black.
Next is the same view, but at 4x -
And here's 10x -
I wasn't able to get a great shot through the 1-10 + the SkeetIRx, but here's one at the 50yd target. Its much wider FoV means less pixels in a given area and lower resolution on the target. The thermal target stickers got very mushy and it didn't like much zoom at all. This is about 3x, sorry again for the bad photo quality - the lens of the Skeet seemed to distort much more at the edges and throw off the camera focus.
Upcoming comparisons will include digital zoom added on top of the 1x unity perspective, and I'll probably continue using the 1-10 as it really seems like the best fit for something like this that gets quite pixelated above 4x.
In summary, it seems like a really great short to midrange clipon that delivers on the promise to deliver very minimal shift when set up correctly. Stretching much past 4x is probably not a great idea, and you don't get much resolution on warm targets past 200 that would tell you what they're holding, etc.
The manual (which is marked ITAR controlled) shows multiple examples of rifle setups and stresses the importance of the vertical offset between thermal and day scope. It mentioned spacers available to change the height of the VooDoo. You'll see here an EOTech on a Unity riser is obviously much too high to view through when using the Wilcox mount, and you'd need to raise it up on another riser or other solution to work well.
It's a really nice small size and feels quite sturdy. With the longer rifles we could barely feel the added weight on the rail. The knurled battery cap is a huge upgrade and the eyepiece stands out far enough to clamp a camera mount on.
By featuring a 15deg horizontal field of view, the VooDoo-S is a bit wider angle than the base LWTS (12.4deg), NOX-35(12.2deg), and incoming ClipIR (12.4deg), but not quite as wide as the iRay MH-25 (17.5deg) or certainly the SkeetIRx (22deg) or NOX-18 (24.3deg). It seems to really like a base 2-3x magnification, and gets too pixelated for my tastes above 4x.
Here's a few side-by-sides with the Skeet to show the difference in 22 versus 15deg FoV. While they're both presenting a 1x image to the viewer, the FoV on the Skeet presents much more of the scene and fills the eyepiece much more like a PVS-14 does. The VooDoo definitely feels like a small screen placed a distance away and needs that extra 2-3x to make the most of its resolution. I wouldn't take these images to represent comparative crispness between the two units, just a comparison of field of view. When zooming into the VooDoo, you would certainly have more "pixels on target" for a given subject. You'll notice each object within frame is the same size between the two, but the Skeet (on top, more blue) shows more of the periphery.
Here's a quick overlay to show relative screen size between the two units -
Looking forward to some more range time tomorrow, where I'll be focusing more on capturing video through the units to show how nice the thermal image really is at the distances it appears to be designed for. Will try stretching things a bit more and get some cows at 4-500yd, etc.
Skeet on helmet or as scanner can’t be beat — even by the mighty Voodoo — but I’d consider it as more of an emergency clipon.
Also, I’ve seen the same distortion using the 1-10 as well. However, using a 1/4x Elcan doesn’t seem to suffer the same effect, and at 1x it fills the scope view and is great for 100y or closer.
The Voodoo also loves the Elcan, and it seems just perfectly suited to the 1.5/6x Elcan like no other short range clipon I’ve ever seen. 1.5x fills the view corner-to-corner (barely touching the sharp corners.
Also, I’ve seen the same distortion using the 1-10 as well. However, using a 1/4x Elcan doesn’t seem to suffer the same effect, and at 1x it fills the scope view and is great for 100y or closer.
The Voodoo also loves the Elcan, and it seems just perfectly suited to the 1.5/6x Elcan like no other short range clipon I’ve ever seen. 1.5x fills the view corner-to-corner (barely touching the sharp corners.
@TheHorta this has probably been covered in other threads, but what sets the Skeet above the Nox18? I did not realize the Nox has a wider FOV than the Skeet until now
Just throwing it out there, you could have quad Nox's for the price of bino Skeets! Chiropractor not included
Just throwing it out there, you could have quad Nox's for the price of bino Skeets! Chiropractor not included
If I went purely on a cost analysis basis only, and evaluated it based upon thermal performance and image/view alone, then it would be difficult to justify a 250% price premium for the Skeet which has, subjectively, a 20-25% better image than the Nox 18.
It’s the rest of the package that, in my personal opinion, crushes the Nox and everything else out there (even the Voodoo, for my particular uses).
The TTL view through dual Skeets, when helmet mounted, beats the ever-luvin’ stuffin’ out of the Voodoo, Nox, ChinaSkeet — everything.
Then talk about the size and weight — under 10 ounces including battery and Wilcox shoe (Voodoo weighs over 20% more and is bigger, and the Nox is bigger and heavier still).
Focusable objective, true 1:1 unity view (I don’t believe the Nox 18 is true unity, but I could be wrong).
Greater detection range.
IR frickin’ layzur beems.
TracIR.
Can be used as both a short range clipon AND dedicated thermal weapon scope (see image below for ultimate <200 yard night yote gun).
Red-I.
Can launch from my submarine at 66-feet below the water (crucial for surprising yotes).
It’s just a different, superior animal is just about every measurable way — especially compared to the Nox.
If I was a bargain shopper, I’d stick with my MH25s or the Nox, but I’ve seen the (LWIR) light, and the light is good.
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Lazer beams baby, gotta love it that's the one think I wish the Nox had.
Thanks for the response makes total sense, cliff notes are above for those that care
J W's Orphanage & Rescue Mission is gladly accepting Voodoo chillens and has a warm bed and hot meal for them.
Always happy to receive surprise packages from the FedEx man in exchange for photos. Maybe I can snag some of those ClipIRs before too long…J W's Orphanage & Rescue Mission is gladly accepting Voodoo chillens and has a warm bed and hot meal for them.
To add to this thread, here's some preliminary photos through my unit. Will be taking more tomorrow.
I will say this, if you are going for a helmet mounted unit and thats all it will be (not using as a clip on), then stick with the Nox 18. More tomorrow.
I will say this, if you are going for a helmet mounted unit and thats all it will be (not using as a clip on), then stick with the Nox 18. More tomorrow.
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In front of a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-24x10. This unit would make for a fantastic add on to a short range platform for hog hunting. For coyote/ long range night hunting, the Super Yoter C would blow this away due to the hardware and use case.
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No. They’ve been out of the retail channel for a while now. Up to Trijicon if they want to make another run. I think their smartest move would be to drop another 100-ish UTC-Xii’s into the market. That might depress resale some, but who cares.
What is the distance to the target there. Also is the 10x fully focused as best as can be?
The Voodoo does not do 10x well. I’d say 6x is where it maxes out. The 1.5/6x Elcan is its soulmate.
That was close-about 20 yards or so. I'm taking some long range images tonight. And you can completely focus the diopter to where you have a crystal clear image, but pixels are much more noticeable and I peronsally prefer a smoother image.
The diopter slightly, I prefer a slightly fuzzier image with high mags as I find it's easier to PID with as opposed to the diopter being perfectly focused at higher mags (the unit gets really pixelated like this). Using it as a clip on, I keep the sharpness setting on 1 (as opposed to the factory setting of 2) because the image is still sharp, but not nearly as pixelated.
I'll take some pictures tonight at my buddy's place using him as a thermal model to demonstrate what I'm talking about!
Thoughts on adjusting diopter to unity, and using objective to adjust desired sharpness... in an effort to eliminate parallax?
Thats what I've done now. Was doing the parallex move with a higher digital sharpness, but now have the scope to unity and the sharpness decreased.
Welp, here they are. Some sample photo of a living target, 50 to 100 yards. At varying magnification from a Vortex Razor Gen III. My conclusions are as followed:
1.) Pro's:
-The voodoo S is small, lightweight, user intuitive, and very functional.
-It retains zero and is collimated (at least to a certain extent). The mount retains zero in my testing thus far in mounting and dismounting (will be testing the flip to the side feature as well for zero retention).
-Due to the size of the germanium lens (looks to be around 25mm in diameter), you get a more sensitive image than that of the Nox 18 as I have found (more background details at comparable settings on both units). This means that you will have more retained detail in poor conditions (wind, rain, humidity, heavy snow, etc).
-The housing is VERY solid; reminds me of the Tig IR in that aspect. Also has an IR laser.
-A good balance of display size to your eye, and back end demagnification. This allows this unit to be a very decent clip on without major pixelation above 1x optical on day optic (like the Skeet, for example).
Cons:
-the major one....... IT'S EXPENSIVE. If you are in the market for something to use as a dedicated weapons sight and a handheld/helmet mounted spotter, then get a nox 18. Cheaper, much better FOV, and you can get almost 3 of them for the price of this Voodoo S. However, if you have a wad of cash burning a hole near your brown star and want a unit that costs almost 3x as much as 1 Nox 18...... but with clip on capability
magic, then this is the unit for you.
All in all, this is a well built, well rounded unit that does about everything you want it to but jump start your failed marriage of 10+ years (results my vary); and done within an 11 ounce package. For those that want to spend big, go ahead. For those that want something close to this but don't want to sell a kidney to acquire one, get a Nox 18, Supter Yoter C, WP Pvs 14, Perst 3, and a good rifle w/ ammo instead..... plus you'll probably have money left over. The voodoo is for the more refined individual thermal user that either has experience with other thermals (plus the bank), or the average affluent 60 year sugar daddy that pays 5000 dollars a month shopping for brides in the Ukraine (she can't look through it though, it's ITAR controlled).
1.) Pro's:
-The voodoo S is small, lightweight, user intuitive, and very functional.
-It retains zero and is collimated (at least to a certain extent). The mount retains zero in my testing thus far in mounting and dismounting (will be testing the flip to the side feature as well for zero retention).
-Due to the size of the germanium lens (looks to be around 25mm in diameter), you get a more sensitive image than that of the Nox 18 as I have found (more background details at comparable settings on both units). This means that you will have more retained detail in poor conditions (wind, rain, humidity, heavy snow, etc).
-The housing is VERY solid; reminds me of the Tig IR in that aspect. Also has an IR laser.
-A good balance of display size to your eye, and back end demagnification. This allows this unit to be a very decent clip on without major pixelation above 1x optical on day optic (like the Skeet, for example).
Cons:
-the major one....... IT'S EXPENSIVE. If you are in the market for something to use as a dedicated weapons sight and a handheld/helmet mounted spotter, then get a nox 18. Cheaper, much better FOV, and you can get almost 3 of them for the price of this Voodoo S. However, if you have a wad of cash burning a hole near your brown star and want a unit that costs almost 3x as much as 1 Nox 18...... but with clip on capability
magic, then this is the unit for you. All in all, this is a well built, well rounded unit that does about everything you want it to but jump start your failed marriage of 10+ years (results my vary); and done within an 11 ounce package. For those that want to spend big, go ahead. For those that want something close to this but don't want to sell a kidney to acquire one, get a Nox 18, Supter Yoter C, WP Pvs 14, Perst 3, and a good rifle w/ ammo instead..... plus you'll probably have money left over. The voodoo is for the more refined individual thermal user that either has experience with other thermals (plus the bank), or the average affluent 60 year sugar daddy that pays 5000 dollars a month shopping for brides in the Ukraine (she can't look through it though, it's ITAR controlled).
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That's what the Auction Block is for.
Best line in that video: “she’s been hammered more times than an anvil at a blacksmith shop.”
Dunno. Maybe the "dumpster fire" is the most relevant.
What do NV, Thermal and Women have in common?
They both dumpster fires for yo MONEY.
What does "collimated (at least to a certain extent)" mean.
Is it a true plug and play such that you mount it and you Day Optic is less than say 1 MOA POA/POI or do you have to shift the screen around to get your Day Optic on target.
I took mine out, checked my zero and scored a hit at 275 (with the voodoo flipped to the side not engaged), then engaged the same target for 4 shots with the voodoo. Scored a 3/4, and the missed shot was my fault. Plate size is roughly
6 inches
I don't think POT states that its prism colimated... but it sure acts like it is.
No probs man, it was something that I wanted to test out as well. I had no issues engaging steel at 300 yards today. None what so ever. Between every shot I flipped the thermal to the side, took it off, remounted it and then flipped it back infront of the day optic to assure it retains zero.....and it did to my surprise.
Here's some video footage through the voodoo-s with a mark 6 and an eotech/3x magnifier -
So, a few questions ...
If I were interested in something for a host rifle, with no intention to ever run helmet-mounted, and I didn't feel like going over 10k, then the Nox-18 would be my best bet? I could foresee using the device to hand-held scan also, but again, it will never be attached to my dome.
Also, and I'm asking this because I've never personally held a Nox, can the dovetail shoe be switched around with the rail clamp? In other words, can I have them switch sides? The reason I ask is because I seem to recall reading, some time ago, the N-Vision folks don't recommend the dovetail (as a means of attachment) for shooting. I read something about how the dovetail "side" isn't rated for rifle use. If you want to attach it to a host, they state to only use the rail clamp. Hence my question whether the clamp and shoe can flip flop.
It's hard not to be enticed by the MSRP of the NOX, especially if the net gain in subjective image quality hovers around 20-25%. So if my intentions were to, essentially, use it on a rail only, with the occasional "walk around with it in my hand," Nox-18 is the preferred direction? Also, it would likely be installed on a dedicated night rifle, so there would be no day optic involved (not sure if that alters the analysis).
The only thing that bothers me, if it can't be rectified, is the rail attachment situation. I'd really like to have the ability for a quick detach / flip to side. I'd like to be able to scan, if need be, and then pop it back into its home without having to ensure I'm in the correct pic section. Snap in, snap out. That's why I was asking about installing the shoe on the rail-grabber side.
And I'm assuming the Nox-18 over any current Trijicon-branded product, for the use case described?
Thoughts anyone?
Horta derailed MANY MOONS AGO.
The Hortaville Express will likely never stay on the tracks.
So, I made an Unforced Error!
The Elcan 1.5/6x is **NOT** the ideal scope for the Voodoo-S (or the UTM-x). It **IS** good at 6x, but it is NOT good at 1.5x for either. Something about the optical formula that makes only the center HALF of the scope circle useful at 1.5x. That is filled and very good at 6x, but sucks at 1.5x.
Mea culpa.
I ran the Voodoo-S, the UTM-x, and the TigIR-6M — all at 6x from the same tripod at the same target 100-meters away.
For all practical purposes, the Voodoo-S and the UTM-x are identical twins — same FOV, same detail, etc. Both max-out at 6x as clipons (though some will argue 8x, but I’m less tolerant of pixelation). There is zero practical difference between the two units and I doubt most could reliably distinguish between the two in a blind test.
The TigIR-6M was a pleasant surprise. I had basically packed away the Tig for the last few months, favoring newer units or going with dedicated thermal scopes. The Tig outperformed both the Voodoo-S and UTM-x with better detail / more resolution. As a dedicated clip-on, the Tig excels and is just better at its singular job.
The Elcan 1.5/6x is **NOT** the ideal scope for the Voodoo-S (or the UTM-x). It **IS** good at 6x, but it is NOT good at 1.5x for either. Something about the optical formula that makes only the center HALF of the scope circle useful at 1.5x. That is filled and very good at 6x, but sucks at 1.5x.
Mea culpa.
I ran the Voodoo-S, the UTM-x, and the TigIR-6M — all at 6x from the same tripod at the same target 100-meters away.
For all practical purposes, the Voodoo-S and the UTM-x are identical twins — same FOV, same detail, etc. Both max-out at 6x as clipons (though some will argue 8x, but I’m less tolerant of pixelation). There is zero practical difference between the two units and I doubt most could reliably distinguish between the two in a blind test.
The TigIR-6M was a pleasant surprise. I had basically packed away the Tig for the last few months, favoring newer units or going with dedicated thermal scopes. The Tig outperformed both the Voodoo-S and UTM-x with better detail / more resolution. As a dedicated clip-on, the Tig excels and is just better at its singular job.
Must be that good ole Flir Boson doing its THANG.
Too bad we now gotta get cross hair capable units via re-importation from Germany.
Yeah, it really is this cool.
