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POF vs Hogan
- Thread starter D.A.T
- Start date
Re: POF vs Hogan
Allegedly, they are (were?) the same thing. Lawsuit in progress between the two.
Hogan originally manufactured a number of POF's designs for them.
POF had some disputes with the delivery timeframe and quality of some of Hogan's order fulfillment. Hogan alleges that the way POF dealt with that was not to pay Hogan. Hogan sued.
Meanwhile, hogan started selling POF designed parts - including parts with patented features - directly to the public.
POF filed counter claims claiming a whole lot of stuff (frankly an over-reach based on what I have seen and read in the case) against world+dog. Patent violations, counterfeiting, breach of contract, etc.
Dog was able to separate from lawsuit and now wants attorney fees. Similarly pernicious lot-of-stuff has been pared down in partial summary judgement and the remaining claims and counter claims are slated for trial later this year.
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2011-005942
I could get the case file and post a synopsis for the community but getting copies as a public, non-party costs money so if the community wants to know more, the community is going to have to come up with the dough to make it possible to order the lots and lots of documents it will take to get copies of the recent motions and orders since mid-january.
Allegedly, they are (were?) the same thing. Lawsuit in progress between the two.
Hogan originally manufactured a number of POF's designs for them.
POF had some disputes with the delivery timeframe and quality of some of Hogan's order fulfillment. Hogan alleges that the way POF dealt with that was not to pay Hogan. Hogan sued.
Meanwhile, hogan started selling POF designed parts - including parts with patented features - directly to the public.
POF filed counter claims claiming a whole lot of stuff (frankly an over-reach based on what I have seen and read in the case) against world+dog. Patent violations, counterfeiting, breach of contract, etc.
Dog was able to separate from lawsuit and now wants attorney fees. Similarly pernicious lot-of-stuff has been pared down in partial summary judgement and the remaining claims and counter claims are slated for trial later this year.
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2011-005942
I could get the case file and post a synopsis for the community but getting copies as a public, non-party costs money so if the community wants to know more, the community is going to have to come up with the dough to make it possible to order the lots and lots of documents it will take to get copies of the recent motions and orders since mid-january.
Re: POF vs Hogan
This topic has no place in this forum. It has been beat to death. A Google search will answer ALL of your questions.
This topic has no place in this forum. It has been beat to death. A Google search will answer ALL of your questions.
Re: POF vs Hogan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m_gale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic has no place in this forum. It has been beat to death. A Google search will answer ALL of your questions. </div></div>
My topic has no place on this forum?
I don't see that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m_gale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic has no place in this forum. It has been beat to death. A Google search will answer ALL of your questions. </div></div>
My topic has no place on this forum?
I don't see that.
Re: POF vs Hogan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m_gale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic has no place in this forum. It has been beat to death. A Google search will answer ALL of your questions. </div></div>
My topic has no place on this forum?
I don't see that.</div></div>
Pay m_gale no mind. He's a little green, as you can tell. I think what he means to say is, it has been discussed several times already. Hogan quality isn't the same as POF quality. In fact, there's a YouTube video that shows how bad it was. Using the Sniper's Hide Google search, look for 'Hogan' and 'Youtube' and you'll find it and other topics pertaining to both companies. Feel free to PM me if needed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m_gale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic has no place in this forum. It has been beat to death. A Google search will answer ALL of your questions. </div></div>
My topic has no place on this forum?
I don't see that.</div></div>
Pay m_gale no mind. He's a little green, as you can tell. I think what he means to say is, it has been discussed several times already. Hogan quality isn't the same as POF quality. In fact, there's a YouTube video that shows how bad it was. Using the Sniper's Hide Google search, look for 'Hogan' and 'Youtube' and you'll find it and other topics pertaining to both companies. Feel free to PM me if needed.
Re: POF vs Hogan
I bought a "P.O.F." rifle from Hogan before any of the legal stuff went down, and expected to get a 100% POF rifle as advertised at the time. What I ended up with a was a rifle that couldn't group worth a darn at 100yds due to the barrel coming in contact with the handguard, a similar but un-authentic POF muzzle brake, a bolt carrier without any of the POF anti-tilt features, regular non-rolling cam pin, and it would stovepipe with the gas port in either position no matter what ammunition I used. Moral of the story is, I no longer own the Hogan rifle and will be picking up an authentic POF next week.
I bought a "P.O.F." rifle from Hogan before any of the legal stuff went down, and expected to get a 100% POF rifle as advertised at the time. What I ended up with a was a rifle that couldn't group worth a darn at 100yds due to the barrel coming in contact with the handguard, a similar but un-authentic POF muzzle brake, a bolt carrier without any of the POF anti-tilt features, regular non-rolling cam pin, and it would stovepipe with the gas port in either position no matter what ammunition I used. Moral of the story is, I no longer own the Hogan rifle and will be picking up an authentic POF next week.
Re: POF vs Hogan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought a "P.O.F." rifle from Hogan before any of the legal stuff went down, and expected to get a 100% POF rifle as advertised at the time. What I ended up with a was a rifle that couldn't group worth a darn at 100yds due to the barrel coming in contact with the handguard, a similar but un-authentic POF muzzle brake, a bolt carrier without any of the POF anti-tilt features, regular non-rolling cam pin, and it would stovepipe with the gas port in either position no matter what ammunition I used. Moral of the story is, I no longer own the Hogan rifle and will be picking up an authentic POF next week. </div></div>
Sounds just like my authentic POF I received straight from them. It originally came with a forend that was contacting the gas block and a std cam pin. On one if its many trips back to the factory those parts were replaced and it ran a little better each time but it still couldn't group for shit. Got frustrated and sold all 3 of my POFs due to the issues with the 308.
I about lost my lunch when I saw GAP was using the POF receivers for the gap-10. Not that its the same rifle or anything but I just despise POF that much now from my bad experience.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought a "P.O.F." rifle from Hogan before any of the legal stuff went down, and expected to get a 100% POF rifle as advertised at the time. What I ended up with a was a rifle that couldn't group worth a darn at 100yds due to the barrel coming in contact with the handguard, a similar but un-authentic POF muzzle brake, a bolt carrier without any of the POF anti-tilt features, regular non-rolling cam pin, and it would stovepipe with the gas port in either position no matter what ammunition I used. Moral of the story is, I no longer own the Hogan rifle and will be picking up an authentic POF next week. </div></div>
Sounds just like my authentic POF I received straight from them. It originally came with a forend that was contacting the gas block and a std cam pin. On one if its many trips back to the factory those parts were replaced and it ran a little better each time but it still couldn't group for shit. Got frustrated and sold all 3 of my POFs due to the issues with the 308.
I about lost my lunch when I saw GAP was using the POF receivers for the gap-10. Not that its the same rifle or anything but I just despise POF that much now from my bad experience.
Re: POF vs Hogan
I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?
I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?
Re: POF vs Hogan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. <span style="font-weight: bold">There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.</span>
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?</div></div>
If Wal-Mart, Cabela's, and Bass Pro starts carrying Counter Sniper optics, are you going to say the same thing? The guy who recorded that video is a stand-up guy who happens to be the largest POF dealer in the nation and there's no way in hell that he would put his reputation on the line and record that video if it were not true but you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Talk to this guy if you have questions about Hogan as he owns one.
Paradude -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=62991
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. <span style="font-weight: bold">There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.</span>
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?</div></div>
If Wal-Mart, Cabela's, and Bass Pro starts carrying Counter Sniper optics, are you going to say the same thing? The guy who recorded that video is a stand-up guy who happens to be the largest POF dealer in the nation and there's no way in hell that he would put his reputation on the line and record that video if it were not true but you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Talk to this guy if you have questions about Hogan as he owns one.
Paradude -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=62991
Re: POF vs Hogan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pay m_gale no mind. He's a little green, as you can tell. I think what he means to say is, it has been discussed several times already. Hogan quality isn't the same as POF quality. In fact, there's a YouTube video that shows how bad it was. Using the Sniper's Hide Google search, look for 'Hogan' and 'Youtube' and you'll find it and other topics pertaining to both companies. Feel free to PM me if needed. </div></div>
Killshot and I have written on many different threads regarding this topic. That youtube video was made several years ago and I read the article as well. I can assure you that now, Hogan has some damn fine quality and customer service. I purchased a POF 308 in August and when December came around I was still waiting on my rifle. That is mostly due to POF/Hogan issues and the FFL told me to go with Hogan. Two weeks later I was shooting my 18" Hogan at the range and deployed to Ash-smanishtan a few days later. Since then, I decided I wanted a hunter rail instead of the tactical rail so I contacted hogan to see about buying a new rail. Nope, they had my girlfriend send my whole upper and replaced my rail for free. The Hogan sniper rail looks different from the POF rail. I have shot POF and now own a Hogan. They are nearly the same gun (minus the sniper rail now, the trigger, the name, and Hogan makes an 18" 308). All in all, you pay for customer service and the name. POF is more popular. I can assure you I was skeptical when my FFL changed my gun from POF to Hogan and I have since been quite pleased.
As far as shooting the gun, holy crap it is some quality manufacturing. Nothing wiggles on the rifle, the weight is normal for an AR-10 variable. The best part is the crisp trigger "crack" without moving until it breaks. The muzzle brake is VERY effective for follow up shots and the recoil is much less than any 308 I have shot and a little more than an AR-15. Noisier for sure, but all around a fantastic weapon. The NP3 coating made cleaning very easy and the barrel aesthetically pleasing and sub MOA. You can't go wrong with either company but I have had great dealings with Hogan and they hooked me up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pay m_gale no mind. He's a little green, as you can tell. I think what he means to say is, it has been discussed several times already. Hogan quality isn't the same as POF quality. In fact, there's a YouTube video that shows how bad it was. Using the Sniper's Hide Google search, look for 'Hogan' and 'Youtube' and you'll find it and other topics pertaining to both companies. Feel free to PM me if needed. </div></div>
Killshot and I have written on many different threads regarding this topic. That youtube video was made several years ago and I read the article as well. I can assure you that now, Hogan has some damn fine quality and customer service. I purchased a POF 308 in August and when December came around I was still waiting on my rifle. That is mostly due to POF/Hogan issues and the FFL told me to go with Hogan. Two weeks later I was shooting my 18" Hogan at the range and deployed to Ash-smanishtan a few days later. Since then, I decided I wanted a hunter rail instead of the tactical rail so I contacted hogan to see about buying a new rail. Nope, they had my girlfriend send my whole upper and replaced my rail for free. The Hogan sniper rail looks different from the POF rail. I have shot POF and now own a Hogan. They are nearly the same gun (minus the sniper rail now, the trigger, the name, and Hogan makes an 18" 308). All in all, you pay for customer service and the name. POF is more popular. I can assure you I was skeptical when my FFL changed my gun from POF to Hogan and I have since been quite pleased.
As far as shooting the gun, holy crap it is some quality manufacturing. Nothing wiggles on the rifle, the weight is normal for an AR-10 variable. The best part is the crisp trigger "crack" without moving until it breaks. The muzzle brake is VERY effective for follow up shots and the recoil is much less than any 308 I have shot and a little more than an AR-15. Noisier for sure, but all around a fantastic weapon. The NP3 coating made cleaning very easy and the barrel aesthetically pleasing and sub MOA. You can't go wrong with either company but I have had great dealings with Hogan and they hooked me up.
Re: POF vs Hogan
Also, on Saturday when I get back home to the states I will post pictures of the Hogan Sniper/Hunter rail. My girlfriend showed me on Skype and it was a pleasant surprise to see that is is different. I can't wait to start shooting it again.
Also, on Saturday when I get back home to the states I will post pictures of the Hogan Sniper/Hunter rail. My girlfriend showed me on Skype and it was a pleasant surprise to see that is is different. I can't wait to start shooting it again.
Re: POF vs Hogan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. <span style="font-weight: bold">There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.</span>
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?</div></div>
If Wal-Mart, Cabela's, and Bass Pro starts carrying Counter Sniper optics, are you going to say the same thing? The guy who recorded that video is a stand-up guy who happens to be the largest POF dealer in the nation and there's no way in hell that he would put his reputation on the line and record that video if it were not true but you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Talk to this guy if you have questions about Hogan as he owns one.
Paradude -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=62991 </div></div>
Well Like the post after yours shows, what happens several years ago is not what is happening now
Kinda bad to compare walmart to good companies in the gun business.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. <span style="font-weight: bold">There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.</span>
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?</div></div>
If Wal-Mart, Cabela's, and Bass Pro starts carrying Counter Sniper optics, are you going to say the same thing? The guy who recorded that video is a stand-up guy who happens to be the largest POF dealer in the nation and there's no way in hell that he would put his reputation on the line and record that video if it were not true but you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Talk to this guy if you have questions about Hogan as he owns one.
Paradude -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=62991 </div></div>
Well Like the post after yours shows, what happens several years ago is not what is happening now
Kinda bad to compare walmart to good companies in the gun business.
Re: POF vs Hogan
D.A.T. do you have any more questions for me? The guns are pretty much identical, just different names, same quality.
D.A.T. do you have any more questions for me? The guns are pretty much identical, just different names, same quality.
Re: POF vs Hogan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. <span style="font-weight: bold">There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.</span>
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?</div></div>
If Wal-Mart, Cabela's, and Bass Pro starts carrying Counter Sniper optics, are you going to say the same thing? The guy who recorded that video is a stand-up guy who happens to be the largest POF dealer in the nation and there's no way in hell that he would put his reputation on the line and record that video if it were not true but you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Talk to this guy if you have questions about Hogan as he owns one.
Paradude -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=62991 </div></div>
Well Like the post after yours shows, what happens several years ago is not what is happening now
Kinda bad to compare walmart to good companies in the gun business. </div></div>
I didn't say when the video was recorded as I don't know. I also haven't seen any videos that show better quality of the Hogan rifles since that first video was uploaded.
My point on the Walmart comment stands, whether you agree with it or not. I don't put stock in an item simply because XYZ distributing is selling it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen that video but take it with grain of salt. <span style="font-weight: bold">There has been some big wholesalers pick up Hogan recently and I doubt they would use them if there quality was as bad as that video showed.</span>
Hogan made alot of POF parts and POF rifles were top notch with them.
Anyone own a newer Hogan rifle?</div></div>
If Wal-Mart, Cabela's, and Bass Pro starts carrying Counter Sniper optics, are you going to say the same thing? The guy who recorded that video is a stand-up guy who happens to be the largest POF dealer in the nation and there's no way in hell that he would put his reputation on the line and record that video if it were not true but you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Talk to this guy if you have questions about Hogan as he owns one.
Paradude -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=62991 </div></div>
Well Like the post after yours shows, what happens several years ago is not what is happening now
Kinda bad to compare walmart to good companies in the gun business. </div></div>
I didn't say when the video was recorded as I don't know. I also haven't seen any videos that show better quality of the Hogan rifles since that first video was uploaded.
My point on the Walmart comment stands, whether you agree with it or not. I don't put stock in an item simply because XYZ distributing is selling it.
