POI rises with warm supressor, but without supressor, no problems.

[NicoDiko]

Hi guys. So... I have a Tikka T3 CTR 308.

When i shoot it with my supressor, the POI will slowly rise as the supressor warms up..

If i shoot without the supressor, the POI stays the same as the barrel heats up.

The supressor is this one: https://nielsengunparts.com/vare/nielsen-sonic-55/?lang=en

Have any of you tried the same?

Heres is some shots at 64m with the supressor, and the rise in POI is clear to see.

 

[TimK]

Might be mirage off the can.

 

[Holliday]

Damn, that is significant….

 

[NicoDiko]

Might be mirage off the can.

I did not notice any mirage

 

[ThicketCricket]

Could be slight amounts of gases escaping where the suppressor and Muzzle attach. As the gas escapes at the connection point carbon will build and seal the barrel and suppressor creating a slight increase in Muzzle velocity and eventually stabilize. If you shoot with the suppressor on and then let the gun cool without removing the suppressor do the rounds still impact high after cooling or does the group drop down again?

 

[NicoDiko]

Could be slight amounts of gases escaping where the suppressor and Muzzle attach. As the gas escapes at the connection point carbon will build and seal the barrel and suppressor creating a slight increase in Muzzle velocity and eventually stabilize. If you shoot with the suppressor on and then let the gun cool without removing the suppressor do the rounds still impact high after cooling or does the group drop down again?

Thx for the reply!
if i shoot the gun/supressor warm, and the rounds starts impacting high, and i let the gun/supressor cool down without removing the supressor, the rounds stop impacting high. Hope it makes sense, english is not my first language.
I am suspecting, that the F***** up threads on the CTR ( they have corrected it since they made mine ) have something to do with it. The muzzle threads have no "undercuts". I am suspecting it interfear with the mounting of the supressor when warm. I have attaced a picture so you can see what i mean with no undercut.

 

[Lowlight]

It's mirage off the can, you put a magnified optic behind it

What can cover are you using ?

 

[NicoDiko]

It's mirage off the can, you put a magnified optic behind it

What can cover are you using ?

I dont use any cover, since i never have had any issues before with supressors. I have had a few rifles before with supressors, but its only this rifle/supressor combo that have behaved like this.

 

[Lowlight]

I rest my case,

it was 100% mirage, and you absolutely had issue before you just didn't know what you were looking at

You have a 300 degree can in front of a magnified optic

You can't defend it

 

[NicoDiko]

I rest my case,

it was 100% mirage, and you absolutely had issue before you just didn't know what you were looking at

You have a 300 degree can in front of a magnified optic

You can't defend it

Maybe you are right, im not saying its not a possibility that it could be mirage, its just not my first thourgt, since i have tried the exact same experiment, at the same range, at the same day, but with another rifle and supressor. The other supressoer and rifle was a Tac A1 with a aimsport triton 50S supressor, wich you can compare with the CTR/Sonic55 setup. Did you see the picture i posted with the missing undercut on the muzzle threads with the first CTR/TAC A1 models? ( My TAC a1 dont have the missing undercut ). I have heard of other ppl that have had acuracy problems with supressors because of the missing undercut on the first CTR models. What do you think?

 

[Krob95]

Buy a suppressor cover man. I assume you’re in Europe judging by the suppressor company? If so, cole tac make a good one and they have European vendors

 

[Lowlight]

I own the rifle you’re wrong

The relief cut is meaningless, it’s called a shoulder, the back of the can married it.

 

[Lowlight]

I can post 100 pictures of barrels with relief cuts, the majority do it.

 

[NicoDiko]

Buy a suppressor cover man. I assume you’re in Europe judging by the suppressor company? If so, cole tac make a good one and they have European vendors

Sure, i give it a try.

 

[NicoDiko]

I own the rifle you’re wrong

The relief cut is meaningless, it’s called a shoulder, the back of the can married it.

Im not sure i understand what you mean. With the missing "undercut" on the CTR ( The first models had this missing undercut, if yours dont, you have a example with a barrel made after Tikka/Sako fixed it ) and with this missing undercut, the supressor cant be screwed all the way down, the threads on the supressor will screw down over the little piece where there are not threads, and in some cases you will ruin the threads on the supresoor. Its like they forgot to thread the barrel all the way, and did not make undercut either. it was a pretty big deal in the shooting community in europe, and many sent ther rifles to a gusmith to get it fixed. Some supressors have a built in cut with no threads in the beginning of the thread, so they can screw over the missing undercut of the rifle, and have no issues. But many supressors dont ( at least in the eu, maybe its diffrent in the us? ) Hope it makes sense. The picture you posted, is how a thread should be made. The CTR models with missing undercuts, are not made like that. Still, im not saying its not mirage, i just suspect it isent the problem.

 

[Precision Underground]

Im not sure i understand what you mean. With the missing "undercut" on the CTR ( The first models had this missing undercut, if yours dont, you have a example with a barrel made after Tikka/Sako fixed it ) and with this missing undercut, the supressor cant be screwed all the way down, the threads on the supressor will screw down over the little piece where there are not threads, and in some cases you will ruin the threads on the supresoor. Its like they forgot to thread the barrel all the way, and did not make undercut either. it was a pretty big deal in the shooting community in europe, and many sent ther rifles to a gusmith to get it fixed. Some supressors have a built in cut with no threads in the beginning of the thread, so they can screw over the missing undercut of the rifle, and have no issues. But many supressors dont ( at least in the eu, maybe it’s diffrent in the us? ) Hope it makes sense.

When you screw the can on does the back of the can meet the shoulder on the barrel? Im guessing it doesn’t if your threads look like the image you posted.

 

[NicoDiko]

When you screw the can on does the back of the can meet the shoulder on the barrel? Im guessing it doesn’t if your threads look like the image you posted.

Thing is, when i first got the rifle, i did not know this about the threads.
The can DO meet the shoulder on the barrel. However, i suspect that the threads on the supressor is squeesed, since i just screwed it on when i first got it. I cant remember if there was resistance when i screwed it on the first time. I cant visually expect the relevant part of the supressor threads, since it is a telescope type supressor ( dunno if it called that in the US, but it means that the first half of the supressor actually goes over the barrel, meaning the threads are hidden deep inside the supressor ) i will try and find a little camera that i can inspect the threads with. however, i do suspect that the supressor seating somehow gets affected when it gets hot.

 

[Precision Underground]

Thing is, when i first got the rifle, i did not know this about the threads.
The can DO meet the shoulder on the barrel. However, i suspect that the threads on the supressor is squeesed, since i just screwed it on when i first got it. I cant remember if there was resistance when i screwed it on the first time. I cant visually expect the relevant part of the supressor threads, since it is a telescope type supressor ( dunno if it called that in the US, but it means that the first half of the supressor actually goes over the barrel, meaning the threads are hidden deep inside the supressor ) i will try and find a little camera that i can inspect the threads with. however, i do suspect that the supressor seating somehow gets affected when it gets hot.

We call that a reflex suppressor over here. Is it direct thread? How can you tell if it is touching the shoulder if its an over-barrel/reflex mount?

 

[Lowlight]

I remove the Tikka barrels the MV is not fast enough for me. Speed wins, my barrels are Bartlein.

But I am confused you said yours is correct with the relief cut but you are blaming the same problem without.

You’re not using a suppressor cover, you have a reflex suppressor which, two dissimilar metals heating and cooling at a different rate, so this confuses me

You have a barrel with an undercut, exhibiting behavior the same as one without. But sure keep explaining

 

[NicoDiko]

We call that a reflex suppressor over here. Is it direct thread? How can you tell if it is touching the shoulder if its an over-barrel/reflex mount?

I dunno what direct thread means, but if it means that the thread starts without a "blank" start, i dont know since i cant see the threads good enoug.
I cheked if it was up against the shoulder, by making 6 very little dots of paint from a Posca pen around the surface of the shoulder. I then screwed on the supressor, and all the smal dots where smeared out when i took the supressor off again. Hope it makes sense.

If direct thread means, that its screwed directly on the barrel without adaptors and stuff like that, then yes it is a direct thread.

 

[NicoDiko]

I remove the Tikka barrels the MV is not fast enough for me. Speed wins, my barrels are Bartlein.

But I am confused you said yours is correct with the relief cut but you are blaming the same problem without.

You’re not using a suppressor cover, you have a reflex suppressor which, two dissimilar metals heating and cooling at a different rate, so this confuses me

You have a barrel with an undercut, exhibiting behavior the same as one without. But sure keep explaining

Im sorry if my english caused you to misunderstand, but my CTR barrel do not have a relief cut. My TAC a1 have relief cut. My Tac A1 do not have the same problem as my CTR. I have tried the exact same experiment with my TAC A1, same day, same range, same ammo etc, and the TAC A1 with a reflex supressor do not start to print higher with a warm supressor. Sry for my bad english again. Im not sure what "MV" means?

 

[NicoDiko]

i appriciate all the replys guys. Just a notice, i wont be able to reply for the next 10 days, but i will surely return when possible

 

[Shoots 700's]

Lucky us

 

[NicoDiko]

Lucky us

I have noticed, in general, that US gun forums have more bad vibes, rude comments, and stuff like that in comparison to the ones in Europe. Like this comment. Why do you post that? What do you get out of it? Why dont you just say what is bothering you, instead of being passive agressive.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I have noticed, in general, that US gun forums have more bad vibes, rude comments, and stuff like that in comparison to the ones in Europe. Like this comment. Why do you post that? What do you get out of it? Why dont you just say what is bothering you, instead of being passive agressive.

You got a lot of experienced people here giving you the probable cause to your issue,but you keep insisting that this isn't your first can and it doesn't do it with other guns.

Listen to what they are telling you, go buy a cover

 

[NicoDiko]

You got a lot of experienced people here giving you the probable able cause to your issue,but you keep insisting that this isn't your first can and it doesn't do it with other guns.

Listen to what they are telling you, go buy a cover

Maybe you should read, what i have posted?
I say, it is a possibility that it is mirage that cause the problem. I dont insist on anything. I do say thou, that i dont suspect that it is the problem.
I also say, that i will give it a try with the cover.
I know many ppl have had problems with the CTR muzzle threads. It is a legitimate thing to suspect, that it could have a influence in the problem.

 

[kthomas]

Maybe you should read, what i have posted?
I say, it is a possibility that it is mirage that cause the problem. I dont insist on anything. I do say thou, that i dont suspect that it is the problem.
I also say, that i will give it a try with the cover.
I know many ppl have had problems with the CTR muzzle threads. It is a legitimate thing to suspect, that it could have a influence in the problem.

What exactly about the threads would cause a shift with heat?

A suppressor cover is cheap. Buy one and try it out. I bet that fixes your problems.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I have noticed, in general, that US gun forums have more bad vibes, rude comments, and stuff like that in comparison to the ones in Europe. Like this comment. Why do you post that? What do you get out of it? Why dont you just say what is bothering you, instead of being passive agressive.

Maybe because you are not listening to the advice being given in this forum? If you have experience shooting suppressed this would have been pretty obvious. Shooting f-class they do not shoot suppressed but use mirage shields so the heat off the barrel does not create mirage. If it was indeed the muzzle threads it would not only happen after the can heats up.

 

[Waltjaevel]

Thx for the reply!
if i shoot the gun/supressor warm, and the rounds starts impacting high, and i let the gun/supressor cool down without removing the supressor, the rounds stop impacting high. Hope it makes sense, english is not my first language.
I am suspecting, that the F***** up threads on the CTR ( they have corrected it since they made mine ) have something to do with it. The muzzle threads have no "undercuts". I am suspecting it interfear with the mounting of the supressor when warm. I have attaced a picture so you can see what i mean with no undercut.View attachment 8151958

Well, you're right with the missing 'undercut', I have that in my TACT A1 as well.

Regarding the POI-change, It is what others have told you - order a Cole-Tac cover from Latvia and kill the mirage.