Police & Body Armor

[Amanda4461]

Since before the Antifa mess started, police have been getting shot to death with increasing frequency. I have noticed that many have been shot multiple times, with some being able to obtain help and survive, while others are dead right there. Do police in general wear body armor, or do many either not have it due to budget constraints, or do they choose to leave it in the trunk? The local sheriffs office equips all uniformed members with level III vests. I have yet to see a deputy without his or her armor in place. State troopers either have some lightweight Kevlar, or don’t wear anything but the Charger they drive. The deaths that I have looked into have not been due to headshots, most have been single or multiple torso wounds. Most of these guys have been older, more experienced folks. I donated to city police when they asked for money to buy vests, and wondered if other departments were having the same money problems. After paying for 4 plates and a decent carrier, I can understand why many officers couldn’t afford to buy their own vests, but the return on investment could be immense. Lack of a vest with the random idiocy going on doesn’t sound like a good strategy for survival.

 

[Maggot]

Vest dont help too much when a POS walks up and shoots you in hte head. But good question.

 

[Kamerad]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a uniformed Deputy, PD or Trooper not wearing body armor in my area.

 

[Doc68]

Most times its soft armor. No use against rifle rounds. Or as someone stated already, they got shot in head/unprotected areas.

 

[TheHorta]

It’s always a difficult balancing act — maintaining community relations in the face of perceived (or real) militarization of domestic law enforcement.

I don’t want to see my area LEOs walking around in full kit as a matter of policy. Once you start dressing the part, it won’t be long before you start acting the part and it becomes a defacto LEO vs. Citizen.

 

[CraigG1]

Where I am all uniformed officers and deputies wear vests, not sure what level of protection. The guys from the coroner don't have vests. State police ... good question, but I don't recall them wearing vests. With all the " defund the police" crap going around it won't be long before they have to "self procure" vests among other things.

 

[Peloton]

Body armor for uniformed patrol is almost universally required. However, lvl 2 soft body armor is generally only good for pistol rounds and there can be a fair amount of uncovered area in the upper chest and lower abdomen. They're built with comfort in mind as well as protection.

 

[Reverie Ranges]

I don't understand why Police institutions (as a whole) do not protect their officers better. Between better bullet resistant fabrics for tactical duty shirts/uniforms as well as better glass on all duty vehicles, rates of serious injuries would be reduced. I can understand the funding issue as a some of the public yell for police to reduce their funding when they themselves can't grasp balancing their own spending.

 

[Supersubes]

I don't understand why Police institutions (as a whole) do not protect their officers better. Between better bullet resistant fabrics for tactical duty shirts/uniforms as well as better glass on all duty vehicles, rates of serious injuries would be reduced. I can understand the funding issue as a some of the public yell for police to reduce their funding when they themselves can't grasp balancing their own spending.

The funding issues have been around since forever. There’s a point of dimishing returns on this stuff, and you can’t walk around in a bubble all day. Most of what’s killing cops is fairly straight forward stuff. Wearing a seatbelts for example would reduce duty related deaths by ~30% or so. Screw the up-armoring of stuff, I’d rather have a radio that works everywhere.


Regarding vests. I work for a large agency and we’ve always gotten 3A vests, which get replaced every five years. We’re required to wear them and they’re required to provide them.

 

[Doc68]

I don't understand why Police institutions (as a whole) do not protect their officers better. Between better bullet resistant fabrics for tactical duty shirts/uniforms as well as better glass on all duty vehicles, rates of serious injuries would be reduced. I can understand the funding issue as a some of the public yell for police to reduce their funding when they themselves can't grasp balancing their own spending.

You used to be an 11B, I'm a medic, we all know what wearing body armor does to a body. It sucked wearing it 24/7 for 15 months in iraq. Imagine wearing it for 20yrs.

Sadly until they come out with something better than now, this will continue to happen.

Doc

 

[Plinker 73]

I was just shown by a friend of mine a plate that weighed 6# and stopped a M 80 A1 round at 50 feet. They only cost $100 each. I can get more info including pics if any one wants it.
Rad

 

[koobs84]

I don't understand why Police institutions (as a whole) do not protect their officers better. Between better bullet resistant fabrics for tactical duty shirts/uniforms as well as better glass on all duty vehicles, rates of serious injuries would be reduced. I can understand the funding issue as a some of the public yell for police to reduce their funding when they themselves can't grasp balancing their own spending.

That my friend is the main reason.. Outfitting all the extra protective equipment and better glass or kevlar protection to vehicles is expensive. The money to purchase all of that has to come from somewhere. Cities and counties wouldn't be able to afford that much equipment. Especially now with the push for defunding police.

 

[brianf]

But stricter gun laws mean that the bad guys won’t have weapons anymore ...

Sorry had to do it.

Couple of friends work NYC PD.

They feel they have decent gear but it’s not full on armor like “we” would like.

No heavy side, the cut is a little slim etc

Figure these guys have to sit in a car for hours. They love when they get to peel it off at the end of a shift.

And as said above, it’s about image too.

My friends are big guys to begin with, I could imagine walking up to a few teens with big armor would be scary.

 

[brianf]

Forgot to add, stricter punishment for injuring a officer would stop this crap immediately.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Forgot to add, stricter punishment for injuring a officer would stop this crap immediately.

In most places there is already a huge imbalance in penalties for if the police harm a citizen or their animals compared to if the citizens harm the police or their animals, I don't think we need to make it any more lop sided than it already is.

Most often the issue actually comes down to Politically motivated DAs, either wanting to put the screws to the citizens or wanting to put the screws to the police depending on which side of the fence they stand on.

If you are seeing an uptick in violence done against the police as well as violence done by the police, it might be worthwhile to consider that the only way to actually fix it is to go back and deal with the root causes in society.

 

[E. Bryant]

An interesting list:

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths - National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths Updated March 24, 2023 Over the Past Decade (2012-2022) Download PDF

nleomf.org

Yeah, maybe better armor helps those shooting deaths, but then what are the day-to-day effects of wearing a full plate carrier + Level IV inserts?

 

[W54/XM-388]

An interesting list:

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths - National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths Updated March 24, 2023 Over the Past Decade (2012-2022) Download PDF

nleomf.org

Yeah, maybe better armor helps those shooting deaths, but then what are the day-to-day effects of wearing a full plate carrier + Level IV inserts?

So getting shot is basically only about 30% of what might kill you in that profession.

 

[E. Bryant]

So getting shot is basically only about 30% of what might kill you in that profession.

Yep. It's still way too high, obviously, but there should be many other concerns.

I bet that if you broke it out by region or geographical area, you'd find that car accidents quickly rise to the top of the list anytime you get outside urban areas. Fatal shooting of officers in this area are extremely rare. Fatal auto accidents are unfortunately not.

And while it doesn't show up in nice neat statistical tables, I'm guessing that general stress and the resultant physical health effects kill far more officers than any official numbers would indicate.

 

[THEIS]

An interesting list:

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths - National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths Updated March 24, 2023 Over the Past Decade (2012-2022) Download PDF

nleomf.org

Yeah, maybe better armor helps those shooting deaths, but then what are the day-to-day effects of wearing a full plate carrier + Level IV inserts?

Hi,

First thing that goes up is injuries on the job, then disability claims with medical retirement.

Second thing that goes up is the amount of suspects that do not get apprehended because Officers damn sure cannot catch them.

Third thing actually goes DOWN...the amount of people that will go to the street beat Officers for assistance. They will be too intimidated to do so.

As a tax payer I would like to see my money provide better quality Officers (better quality comes from better training and better pay) WITH mandatory partners in vehicles/patrol with them.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[W54/XM-388]

As a tax payer I would like to see my money provide better quality Officers (better quality comes from better training and better pay) WITH mandatory partners in vehicles/patrol with them.

Sincerely,
Theis

I would venture a guess that making it mandatory to have partners would possibly help lower quite a bit of the risk.

In roadside situations for example, one could be busy while the other could be watching out for traffic / directing traffic.

Then while not fool proof as proven by recent events, being partnered up means they are a bit more of a "challenging" target for those that want to get violent, where having 2 officer's once, tips the scales a bit to make some people think twice about the whole violence thing.

 

[brianf]

Partners...100%

I hopped out of the car today on the way to work because a officer was trying to push a lady who ran out of gas to the shoulder.

Stopped 4 lanes of traffic during rush hour lol...was raining pretty good too.

If he had a partner it would have been safer in general, never mind the extra push power.

 

[fdkay]

I was just shown by a friend of mine a plate that weighed 6# and stopped a M 80 A1 round at 50 feet. They only cost $100 each. I can get more info including pics if any one wants it.
Rad

I have done tests on plates. I hit an AR500 plate with 10 rounds of 55 grain 5.56, 10 rounds of green tip 5.56 and 5 rounds of .308. It finally cracked when hit with the .308, none of the rounds penetrated.
A basic setup with only a chest and back plate, weighs just over 20 lbs, add another 6 pounds for side plates. it's large and bulky. Add that to the 20 pounds of gear you wear on the belt, and your talking serious issue with your back, hips and knees.

 

[Supersubes]

Pairing everyone up cuts the coverage in half. Response times go way up as a result. That’s offset a bit by getting more work done with two on scene. At the end of the day most of this stuff can be handled by one Officer though. Two is absolutely safer, I can’t disagree with that. Some departments already do it for all shifts. We only do it for graves now.

With all the crap going on, we’re losing 1/5 of our total uniformed to retirements this year alone. Hiring is at a virtual standstill at the moment due negative views of LE, Covid, lack of qualified applicants , etc. We never recovered from the wave that left during the 2008 crash, and the current stuff is the coup de grace. I’ll be long retired before it ever (if it ever)gets back to where it was.

 

[upsdownsideways]

We get both state and federal grants for vests. I'd be shocked if officers don't wear them across the 50.

 

[stefan73]

I know a lot of the locals don't wear vests that I have seen. But, this is a small rural area and the locals are more than likely to back up the police here (most of them are kin and most of them pack some heavy heat).

 

[upsdownsideways]

Is it because they refuse too? DOJ grants cover the majority of costs.

 

[Plinker 73]

I have done tests on plates. I hit an AR500 plate with 10 rounds of 55 grain 5.56, 10 rounds of green tip 5.56 and 5 rounds of .308. It finally cracked when hit with the .308, none of the rounds penetrated.
A basic setup with only a chest and back plate, weighs just over 20 lbs, add another 6 pounds for side plates. it's large and bulky. Add that to the 20 pounds of gear you wear on the belt, and your talking serious issue with your back, hips and knees.

I was just shown by a friend of mine a plate that weighed 6# and stopped a M 80 A1 round at 50 feet. They only cost $100 each. I can get more info including pics if any one wants it.
Rad

I was just shown by a friend of mine a plate that weighed 6# and stopped a M 80 A1 round at 50 feet. They only cost $100 each. I can get more info including pics if any one wants it.
Rad

 

[Plinker 73]

Pictures of plate struck by 5.56 M 855 A1 and one round of 7.62 M 80 A1