Poll - Charge Weight for 140gr 6.5 Creedmoor w/ H4350

[3-0-hate]

I'm wondering what the most common charge weight is around here for a 140gr class bullet (139, 140, 143) with H4350.. From my perusal and compilation over 40 previous posts that had good data, I'm seeing an average charge weight of 42.0gr. I'm now just trying to verify my data. Thanks.

And yes, I know that every combo is going to give different results from different brass, primers and the rifles themselves.

Thank you for participating!

 

[Krob95]

42.8gr behind a 140 hybrid in a 24” bartlein

 

[pell1203]

41.5 gr. in a Ruger RPR, 24" PVA barrel, 2725 fps with a COAL of 2.825. Projectile is 140 gr. ELD-M in Starline brass.

Next hotter node on same rifle: 42.3 gr. at just over 2800 fps.

 

[BoilerUP]

41.5gr under a 140 has shot well in multiple different 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned over the years. That was the original Hornady 140gr Amax loading...

That said, I've almost always settled in on 42.2-42.5gr.

 

[Lunchbox27]

40.6 here. Lapua, cci200’s, 140 eld’s, 24” Proof Stainless. 2800 fps.

 

[clcustom1911]

You have 3 popular nodes for H4350 (and also Reloder 16) and 140's. Consistent velocities will generally occurr at 40.5, 41.5, and 42.5. Obviously it may be +/- 0.2 or so and may take some tweaking to get the ideal consistency in your rifle. I do 41.5 with 140's because I get velocities/numbers I want and great brass life.

 

[Kadams1563]

I ran my 6.5 creed at 42.3 H4350 and got 2830 velocity. It shot really well but barrel didn’t last very long lol. I replaced it before 2k rounds as it was losing velocity and I was having to charge close to 43 grains to get 2780 FPS or so.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Bone stock Gen 2 RPR and I use 40.6 for Hornady brass and 40.3 for Lapua brass (140 Hornady BTHP & ELD-Ms). This gets me low to mid 2600s with good accuracy (one hole 3 shot group at 200M).

I tried going up to higher charge weights but the accuracy dropped off and the fastest I could get to was ~2750. I was seeing a lot of pressure signs (cratering / blown primers etc) so I backed off.

Ive shot this gun to 900 with good success so the loading is working well and hopefully another benefit of these lower charges is longer barrel life (which has a LOT of rounds downrange by this point).

 

[Milo 2.5]

Wouldn't your bullet choice dictate the powder charge? Less bearing surface=more powder.

 

[clcustom1911]

Consistency over top velocity is the key. It's very easy to do 2-3 more clicks of elevation with a higher hit percentage from better velocity statistics.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Consistency over top velocity is the key. It's very easy to do 2-3 more clicks of elevation with a higher hit percentage from better velocity statistics.

Try telling this to the majority of hunters where retained energy is the goal, lol

 

[stewarmy01]

One important factor 90%+ do not mention in these types of threads is brass manufacturer. You put in the high node load for Hornady brass into Peterson brass and you are going to have issues.

 

[3-0-hate]

Try telling this to the majority of hunters where retained energy is the goal, lol

But to that end, shot placement is much more important than retained energy. A bullet that pencils through the heart is much more effective than a bullet that delivers 1500+ ft.lbs of energy to the rumen on an elk.

 

[Milo 2.5]

But to that end, shot placement is much more important than retained energy. A bullet that pencils through the heart is much more effective than a bullet that delivers 1500+ ft.lbs of energy to the rumen on an elk.

LOL, then we have the high shoulder guys. I am only laughing because I have read enough threads on expanded kill zones, or drop zones.

 

[Graye2]

Here’s the node I settled in at:

26” DesertTech
42.2gr H4350
140ELDM
Lapua brass
Remington 7 1/2
2780

 

[3-0-hate]

Thanks everyone. Keep it going if possible!

 

[FatBatman]

39.8 gr h4350 starline brass 26" gets me 2780 with a 140eld

 

[FuhQ]

I think for scientific data this is interesting, but I will give one word of advice...

DO NOT try to load your rifle to what anyone else has done with their's... Work your load up slowly, and find your rifle's safe max. DO NOT try to emulate or copy what someone else does, or says. That's how rifles blow up, and people get hurt.

 

[3-0-hate]

I think for scientific data this is interesting, but I will give one word of advice...

DO NOT try to load your rifle to what anyone else has done with their's... Work your load up slowly, and find your rifle's safe max. DO NOT try to emulate or copy what someone else does, or says. That's how rifles blow up, and people get hurt.

If this is directed at me, no need to worry. I’ve been loading for the better part of 20 years and always work my way up and hardly ever push the envelope.

I just started this poll strictly for the ones and zeros.

 

[FuhQ]

If this is directed at me, no need to worry. I’ve been loading for the better part of 20 years and always work my way up and hardly ever push the envelope.

I just started this poll strictly for the ones and zeros.

Nope, just an open word of caution to anyone who might be thinking about directly copying random load data from the internet. Just trying to keep everyone safe.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

41.0gr H4350, 2803 FPS out of a 24” barrel with 140 ELD’s and Lapua brass

 

[JOE62]

41.9 grns H4350, CCI 450, Berger 140 Hybrid .050 OTL in Lapua brass. 26” Bartlein 5R. 2756 fps at 194 feet asl.
One ragged hole.

 

[Mike Casselton]

One important factor 90%+ do not mention in these types of threads is brass manufacturer. You put in the high node load for Hornady brass into Peterson brass and you are going to have issues.

This ^^^^^ absolutely without question.
I've been shooting 3 brands of brass:
S&B
Hornady
Lapua

S&B is slightly heavier and the load was developed for it.
With the Hornady and Lapua, it's close enough to the S&B that I didn't need to change anything.

Picked up a couple hundred pieces of Kinetic Match brass. They are nearly 20 grains heavier than the others.
Loaded a few at my 41.5 and just as I suspected, they are not just warm, they are too fuggin hot.
I shot only two of the rounds and should have stopped at 1.

What I'm saying is, the charge weight can be totally fine in one brand of brass and totally over the top in another.

I knew the kinetic brass would yield more pressure, but I really didn't think it would be sticky in the chamber. The brass likes the powder charge 2gr lower to get the same perfornance.


Another thing to consider is that pressure signs are completely different using the same lot of brass if it's new vs once/twice fired.
Remember, brass hardens with use. Each time it's fired, it's ability to transmit pressure signs diminishes.

I'm not speculating on this information. I used to work for an ammunition manufacturer and I tested this myself.
The SAAMI specifications specifically spell this out.

To go one level deeper, the pressure test barrels have separate transducers for each caliber/brand of brass.
If I was to use the FC xducer on Lapua brass, the pressure would show much higher than it actually is since Lapua brass is a bit harder just forward of the web.

Why did I bother to write this?
Go back to the part about using a known load in unknown brass. I got very high pressure signs with what is normally considered a book maximum load.
Why?
Case capacity or differences in the internal size of a pressure vessel.

Don't just take someone else's load and run with it.
You might get lucky, or you might get a case that ruptures and lose an eye over it.
Ain't worth it.

 

[3-0-hate]

Thank you everyone who participated in the poll.. You have been very helpful for my data-sets.

 

[TxWelder35]

Another thing to consider is that pressure signs are completely different using the same lot of brass if it's new vs once/twice fired.
Remember, brass hardens with use. Each time it's fired, it's ability to transmit pressure signs diminishes.

I'm not speculating on this information. I used to work for an ammunition manufacturer and I tested this myself.
The SAAMI specifications specifically spell this out.

To go one level deeper, the pressure test barrels have separate transducers for each caliber/brand of brass.
If I was to use the FC xducer on Lapua brass, the pressure would show much higher than it actually is since Lapua brass is a bit harder just forward of the web.

now that is interesting. In my 260 just put a new Krieger barrel on. Old load was 42.5gn of 4350 at 2810 FPS with a 136 scenar. New load is a Berger 140 hybrid with 41.6gn 4350 @2860fps. Brass is 13x fired small primer Peterson. 2860 is pretty damn fast, but I did t get an ejector swipe until after 42gn

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

For my John Hancock, I load 42.4 of H4350 behind a 140 grain ELDM, with a velocity of 2858 FPS.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

Shooting 140 ELDs with 24” barrel.
@75 rounds 42.6gr H4350 2808 FPS.
@200 rounds 42.6gr 2890 FPS(pressure).
Now 41.0gr and 2804 FPS @300 rounds. And it did and still does shoot 3/8moa 5 shot groups.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

This ^^^^^ absolutely without question.
I've been shooting 3 brands of brass:
S&B
Hornady
Lapua

S&B is slightly heavier and the load was developed for it.
With the Hornady and Lapua, it's close enough to the S&B that I didn't need to change anything.

Picked up a couple hundred pieces of Kinetic Match brass. They are nearly 20 grains heavier than the others.
Loaded a few at my 41.5 and just as I suspected, they are not just warm, they are too fuggin hot.
I shot only two of the rounds and should have stopped at 1.

What I'm saying is, the charge weight can be totally fine in one brand of brass and totally over the top in another.

I knew the kinetic brass would yield more pressure, but I really didn't think it would be sticky in the chamber. The brass likes the powder charge 2gr lower to get the same perfornance.


Another thing to consider is that pressure signs are completely different using the same lot of brass if it's new vs once/twice fired.
Remember, brass hardens with use. Each time it's fired, it's ability to transmit pressure signs diminishes.

I'm not speculating on this information. I used to work for an ammunition manufacturer and I tested this myself.
The SAAMI specifications specifically spell this out.

To go one level deeper, the pressure test barrels have separate transducers for each caliber/brand of brass.
If I was to use the FC xducer on Lapua brass, the pressure would show much higher than it actually is since Lapua brass is a bit harder just forward of the web.

Why did I bother to write this?
Go back to the part about using a known load in unknown brass. I got very high pressure signs with what is normally considered a book maximum load.
Why?
Case capacity or differences in the internal size of a pressure vessel.

Don't just take someone else's load and run with it.
You might get lucky, or you might get a case that ruptures and lose an eye over it.
Ain't worth it.

How are you liking the s&b brass? What is it comparable to?

 

[9rcrazy]

RPR w/26" Krieger 1-7.5
140 Berger Hy Target
41.1 g H4350
BR-4 primers
Lapua brass
2851 FPS

 

[Huskydriver]

How are you liking the s&b brass? What is it comparable to?

It's garbage brass honestly...it's loaded pretty hot from the factory...3rd reloading with a mild load, primer pockets were toasted

 

[blister]

42.5 lapua srp lri trued rem 700 28"bartlien 5r heavy varmint super accurate

 

[Mike Casselton]

It's garbage brass honestly...it's loaded pretty hot from the factory...3rd reloading with a mild load, primer pockets were toasted

That's not my experience with the S&B brass.

Fitted properly to my factory Remington chamber, I have brass that's been loaded 6x and have zero issues.
Book load of 41.5 H-4350, WLR or F-210, 140gr projectile.

Remember, I know how quickly pressure will climb and I don't chase velocity at the expense of the brass or equipment.




I'll take accuracy any day.




With that being said, here's my take on S&B brass:

It's much harder than any other brass I've tried.

The lot weights are fairly consistent, BUT, lot to lot weight variations are pretty high. As much as 15gr. Be aware of that if you are reloading multiple lots or using range pickup brass.

Although it's hard, it resizes easy enough. It attains consistent headspace and trims easily enough.

The part I don't like is having to remove the primer pocket crimp.
The crimp is so consistent in its location, I think it is done as part of the head stamp.

Keeping on the primer pockets, they are shallow.
I've never measured the depth, but it's very difficult to get primers flush or below flush without uniforming the pocket.

I feel those two steps must be done or the brass isn't useable.

I'll also deburr the flash hole since it's an extra three second step added into the prep. The flash holes have a pretty big burr.


Loading and using the brass is just like anything else. It works.
I still prefer Hornady brass over the S&B, and Lapua over the Hornady.

The price of the S&B is the best part, it's mostly free if not completely free.
If you lose a piece, you won't be crawling around on your hands and knees looking for it. You move on.

 

[Huskydriver]

That's not my experience with the S&B brass.

Fitted properly to my factory Remington chamber, I have brass that's been loaded 6x and have zero issues.
Book load of 41.5 H-4350, WLR or F-210, 140gr projectile.

Remember, I know how quickly pressure will climb and I don't chase velocity at the expense of the brass or equipment.




I'll take accuracy any day.




With that being said, here's my take on S&B brass:

It's much harder than any other brass I've tried.

The lot weights are fairly consistent, BUT, lot to lot weight variations are pretty high. As much as 15gr. Be aware of that if you are reloading multiple lots or using range pickup brass.

Although it's hard, it resizes easy enough. It attains consistent headspace and trims easily enough.

The part I don't like is having to remove the primer pocket crimp.
The crimp is so consistent in its location, I think it is done as part of the head stamp.

Keeping on the primer pockets, they are shallow.
I've never measured the depth, but it's very difficult to get primers flush or below flush without uniforming the pocket.

I feel those two steps must be done or the brass isn't useable.

I'll also deburr the flash hole since it's an extra three second step added into the prep. The flash holes have a pretty big burr.


Loading and using the brass is just like anything else. It works.
I still prefer Hornady brass over the S&B, and Lapua over the Hornady.

The price of the S&B is the best part, it's mostly free if not completely free.
If you lose a piece, you won't be crawling around on your hands and knees looking for it. You move on.

Lol so Hornady brass which is just sightly better than garbage is better than sb brass that I said was garage got it....

 

[Mike Casselton]

Lol so Hornady brass which is just sightly better than garbage is better than sb brass that I said was garage got it....

You made it a point to say the primer pockets were toasted after three loadings.
That's the only thing specific you pointed out to describe how bad the cases are.

Again, I said that wasn't my experience with them.

I don't know what you consider a mild load. I do know that I consider a mild load to be under 55k psi.
Maximum loads are right at the 60k psi level.

If you are toasting primer pockets after three loadings, I'd venture to bet that you are well above 60k psi, and probably pushing 70k.

Your rifle, your face and your eyes, not mine.


Yes, the brass takes some work, but it's pretty much free.
If a person is willing to do a bit of prep work, then they'll shoot fine.

Can you get good accuracy? Yep.
Will it match accuracy of Lapua brass? Maybe.

You won't get 4fps SD out of them, but you can get and stay under 10.

Will you get 20-25 loadings out of them like Lapua?
Probably not.
(BTW, Lapua won't last that long at 70k psi either)

Can you use them for shooting (and making consistent hits) out to 1200yds. Absolutely. I watch it every week with that brass and Hornady 140gr BTHP bullets.

For most people, that's acceptable.
YMMV.

 

[atepointer]

How are you liking the s&b brass? What is it comparable to?

I have a batch of 200 that is almost all 5x through and it's not showing any signs yet. I have Hornady that is 6x through and no signs either. I use it with Winchester primers/StaBall/Hornady 140g HPBT. Like them both have a ton of SnB literal bags of it, but not seeing any need to dip into the rest of it yet. I can get 44g in the Horndaddy and could have kept going no signs at all. 43.7 in SnB so I just run 43.7 in both and get better accuracy than I'd of ever hoped for. Sorry not the 4350 info you probably wanted, but I love the brass. If I wanted to take the time to weight out my SnB I have no doubts I could run it up to Horndaddy charges, but just not something I feel led to do the 43.7 lets medo what I want.

 

[Jakeweb09]

In Peterson brass I was shooting 39.8. Much over 40 and started getting ejector marks. Going to give Lapua a try in a few weeks with the new barrel..but I might try rl26 instead

 

[Cojo79]

This is data we got out of my Tika with a 26" krieger barrel. I am redoing this test with fired brass since this one was done with new but with 3 shot groups on the low end 40.8 to 41.6 since I had very little deviation on the low end.

 

[huntnh]

41.5 26 Krieger 2820

 

[smtitmelevi]

Savage 10T 24”
Hornady Brass, cci 34
41.0 H 4350 Avg 2710 Es-18, sd-5
42.2 H4350 Avg- 2800 fps, Es-13, Sd-5

 

[Bulldog82566]

I am not understanding why, but I am getting better results with less.
Terminus Zeus
26" Proof Barrel
SMK 140gr
H4350 41.2 grs
Alpha LP Brass
CCI 200 Primer.
2,810 FPS
It does not seem to matter what brass I am using or primers for that matter. It stays the same.
Anyone have any idea why I would be as fast as guys shooting 42 to 42.5.

 

[Huskydriver]

I am not understanding why, but I am getting better results with less.
Terminus Zeus
26" Proof Barrel
SMK 140gr
H4350 41.2 grs
Alpha LP Brass
CCI 200 Primer.
2,810 FPS
It does not seem to matter what brass I am using or primers for that matter. It stays the same.
Anyone have any idea why I would be as fast as guys shooting 42 to 42.5.

What are you measuring the speed with?

 

[Bulldog82566]

What are you measuring the speed with?

Magneto V3

 

[kthomas]

This is highly dependent on the components being used and your lot of H4350.

I developed a load of ~2830 fps with 140 Berger Hybrids using 42.5 grains of H4350, Lapua SRP brass and CCI BR4 primers.

No pressure signs, runs about the same velocity as factory Hornady 140 AMAX's through my 24" barrel. Can't guarantee my recipe works in other rifles with different components and H4350 lot numbers.

 

[918v]

A lot of stupid in this thread.

 

[Bulldog82566]

A lot of stupid in this thread.

So why don't you give me your opinion. Why are they loading hotter and getting no more than I am. You make a statement like that and don't back it up, kinda of makes you look stupid and a few other things.

 

[Bulldog82566]

Nevermind. I see your from Cali. That said it all.

 

[spife7980]

I am not understanding why, but I am getting better results with less.
Terminus Zeus
26" Proof Barrel
SMK 140gr
H4350 41.2 grs
Alpha LP Brass
CCI 200 Primer.
2,810 FPS
It does not seem to matter what brass I am using or primers for that matter. It stays the same.
Anyone have any idea why I would be as fast as guys shooting 42 to 42.5.

because of a hundred possible reasons

 

[Bulldog82566]

because of a hundred possible reasons

Thank you. At least it was not an insulting answer.

 

[918v]

Nevermind. I see your from Cali. That said it all.

And yet I don’t have any of these problems, lol!

 

[918v]

I am not understanding why, but I am getting better results with less.
Terminus Zeus
26" Proof Barrel
SMK 140gr
H4350 41.2 grs
Alpha LP Brass
CCI 200 Primer.
2,810 FPS
It does not seem to matter what brass I am using or primers for that matter. It stays the same.
Anyone have any idea why I would be as fast as guys shooting 42 to 42.5.

One reason is you have a 26” barrel which is longer than your typical 22-24” barrel used for this cartridge.

Another reason is that your chamber is tighter than theirs. Tighter means less case volume because the case can’t expand as much.

Their powder could be slower burning than yours. Slower lot means less pressure per a given charge.

Small vs large primer. Small primer, less pressure so you can add more powder.

Weather.

Alpha cases are heavy. So you’ll get a little more velocity just from that.

Blah, blah, blah.

Hornady brass is great, btw. I like it a lot. I don’t have any issues with it.