So my LGS asked several of his regulars what they would like to see more of in the shop and he would start carrying more of the most requested items. Got me curious as to what the majority of you guys would like to see in your go to shop?
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Poll, LGS owner asked
- Thread starter Pre-64
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Custom actions, stocks & chassis; all of which are highly subjective & you don’t know whether you’ll like them or not until you’ve actually had hands on the item.
These items are generally pricey & they cost more than I want to just piss away & burn a few hundred bucks selling used just to say “yay” or “nay.”
This far in life, I’ve found very few shops who carry such an assortment of said items. Most of the time I think to myself “I’d like to look at XXX item. I hope someone has one at the next match.” It doesn’t do much to satisfy my curiosity & it’s far from 100%.
These items are generally pricey & they cost more than I want to just piss away & burn a few hundred bucks selling used just to say “yay” or “nay.”
This far in life, I’ve found very few shops who carry such an assortment of said items. Most of the time I think to myself “I’d like to look at XXX item. I hope someone has one at the next match.” It doesn’t do much to satisfy my curiosity & it’s far from 100%.
That's a great idea, but really tough to do. The shop would have to buy those custom items, and most don't have wholesale prices. Plus, people would just fondle them and then buy direct, as the shop really couldn't order any discount. Just the opposite, the shop would have to charge more than the custom maker is asking. Just can't see how that could work.
Hi,
It is tough and getting tougher for LGS's to operate.
The industry as a whole is moving more and more to the Direct to Consumer business model.
The reasoning's of such move is beyond vast, lol
LGS's typically do not have the buying power or business knowledge to negotiate with the manufacturers to get "Return To Vendor" clauses in their contracts. In which if the LGS orders/pays for x item and it does not sell within 90 day period then LGS gets to return that item for full credit towards b item that does sell.
While at the same time, most of the custom component manufacturers do not have the capital or inventory, nor desire to assist the LGS in the Return To Vendor contracts.
Sincerely,
Theis
It is tough and getting tougher for LGS's to operate.
The industry as a whole is moving more and more to the Direct to Consumer business model.
The reasoning's of such move is beyond vast, lol
LGS's typically do not have the buying power or business knowledge to negotiate with the manufacturers to get "Return To Vendor" clauses in their contracts. In which if the LGS orders/pays for x item and it does not sell within 90 day period then LGS gets to return that item for full credit towards b item that does sell.
While at the same time, most of the custom component manufacturers do not have the capital or inventory, nor desire to assist the LGS in the Return To Vendor contracts.
Sincerely,
Theis
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What is the cash cow for almost every LGS? Handguns, Powder for reloading, some reloading supplies, targets, gun cases, maybe a scope or red dot sight and a few different rifles. Most things can be had for less through the WWW and many people are just kicking tires and then hitting the WWW for their purchase. Just as noted above.
The local stores I use are willing to special order those things that they don't normally stock. I am willing to pay the extra few dollars more to keep the local guy in grocery money versus the WWW that is probably just a guy sitting at a dining room table and forwarding your order to the MFG.
So my answer is GLOCKS. Cuz dem da kewl pew pew toys and very few walk in and buy the $2000 plus 1911. Keeping inventory that moves is the key to business. Rapid delivery of the stuff you don't stock is number two.
The local stores I use are willing to special order those things that they don't normally stock. I am willing to pay the extra few dollars more to keep the local guy in grocery money versus the WWW that is probably just a guy sitting at a dining room table and forwarding your order to the MFG.
So my answer is GLOCKS. Cuz dem da kewl pew pew toys and very few walk in and buy the $2000 plus 1911. Keeping inventory that moves is the key to business. Rapid delivery of the stuff you don't stock is number two.
I'm kind of with DT above, if a store couldn't build on the action, it's a pricey endeavor. Too risky also as pointed out. Gunsmith's are the ones who should have stock to play with. Plus, not too many actions don't feel like butter operating when held in your off hand while cycling the bolt, not a good comparison. I bought a Bighorn TL3 because I handled it, I sent that pile down the road quick. Also had to have one of the first Borden super short 6's, I had it 3 weeks.
LGS's with internet sales taxes being collected are in a position to compete if they have the coin and storage capacity. Get a feel for what consumers in the area desire. Which I commend the OP's for doing.
By giving my wishlist would be wishful thinking. If you are a shooter living in Gillette, WY, you are a former catalog buyer turned internet buyer, or if younger just an internet shopper.
It'd be easier to list what I have never or will see here. IME, if you are after high end gear, or bulk components, forget the 2 hour running around time, just sit down and place an order. Call it a day and crack a cold beer.
Can't make a living, pay insurance on building and liabilities, utilities, property taxes and a shit ton of other overhead and compete against the WWW that doesn't have a brick and mortar store or even any inventory.
It's virtually impossible for a B&M store to compete with internet sales. Internet sales tax will close the gap, but the disparity of overhead (especially when compared to drop shippers) is too great. They cannot compete on inventory. They cannot generally compete on price. However, there is value to having a living breathing person to talk to while shopping. Actual knowledge is what is most missing from retail today. And, I'm not talking fudd lore, there's too much of that. If I could walk into a gun store without the BS meter maxed, that'd be s store I frequented. Alas, that beast doesn't exist.
I shop Primary Arms for most things gun related- mostly because they are local to me and that makes them essentially on line ordering with same day delivery (in store pickup).
I shop Primary Arms for most things gun related- mostly because they are local to me and that makes them essentially on line ordering with same day delivery (in store pickup).
I would love to see custom actions, stocks and and scopes locally to compare before buying. As many have said, the inventory costs means that's not practical for most small shops. What I would really like to see is more reloading supplies, powder, primers, bullets, etc. If there was a local shop that carried that, I would buy very little off the net. It's also more practical, since you can stock a lot of powder for the price of an S & B scope.
When I think about it, I do not really see how a Brick and Mortar hobby store can compete with online sales. I've watched specialty hobbystores owned by friends, archery, backpacking, homebrewing, all fail in the last ten years. Yes, it's great to have a place to talk about the sport/ hobby with like minded people, to actually see or try on various products, but inevitably one buys where the price is best and that is always online. Unless there is some change to our basic business models, I do not see the small store surviving. Either giant superstores like Buds or websites will be where the next generation shops.
They want to go in and try the shit out and walk out empty handed then save $10 online. When the LGS closes they complain that there's no place to finger fuck items before buying online.
I kind of see Things going the other way, cabelas and bass pro merged, they now suck, sportsmans warehouse just bought field and stream because they are about to fold also, as far as the Internet goes, yes some stuff you can have shipped to your house but you will always need a ffl B/M shop to go pick up guns, and in some state ammo also
High end scopes and rifles
Reasonably priced ammo
Scope caps/mag holders/holsters/body armor etc.
cheap transfer fees
If not a silencershop dealer , be one
Reasonably priced ammo
Scope caps/mag holders/holsters/body armor etc.
cheap transfer fees
If not a silencershop dealer , be one
It’s 2020. If .gov would move to the future and we could do 4473s online or over the phone and have guns shipped to our houses gun shops would be a thing of the past.
Just curious as to how you could verify that you are really talking to the actual person? As bad as identity theft is would you really want someone to be able to buy one over the phone?
I have a friend that opened a gun store 3 years ago. He has a son that runs it and they seem to be doing well.
At this stage of my life I have most of my wants / needs filled.
I'm sure some will take this the wrong way, but when I want Dave to get me something or want something in the store, I don't ask how much it will be, I just assume it will be the best price he can give me and still be open the next time I get a chance to stop in.
Like others, I don't see how they stay in business. BUT glad they do.
At this stage of my life I have most of my wants / needs filled.
I'm sure some will take this the wrong way, but when I want Dave to get me something or want something in the store, I don't ask how much it will be, I just assume it will be the best price he can give me and still be open the next time I get a chance to stop in.
Like others, I don't see how they stay in business. BUT glad they do.
I don’t care. Shall not be infringed
If you can be trusted not in jail. You can be trusted with a firearm.
Drugs are illegal guess who has them? The criminals.
F all these infringements. I should be able to mail order a stinger, javelin, m2hb and c4
Can't you buy pre-1900 shit through the mail still without a FFL or C&R?
I would love to support LGSs. I don't mind paying a (small) premium to do so. Problem is, it's not so small in my area. When I can save $10 or more per lb of gunpowder, including shipping and hazmat...sorry, but Powder Valley is getting my business. Also, the LGS won't have more than two or three lbs on hand.
Pretty much the same story for firearms.
Pretty much the same story for firearms.
The only thing I want of my LGS is to have a top end indoor range...as far as stuff goes like guns and parts and accessories they cannot compete with shopping online. They might keep some stuff like ammunition and oil and maybe some common stuff but having targets and ammo and a range is all I use my LGS's for anymore. Maybe Consignment.
I do love being able to put my stuff I want to move along in their glass case and have them sell it for me and take a consignment fee. That's cool...but they never have the stuff I want at a price that is competitive like powder, grips, primers, bullets, or whatever. I buy everything online now.
All I need is a place to shoot.
VooDoo
I do love being able to put my stuff I want to move along in their glass case and have them sell it for me and take a consignment fee. That's cool...but they never have the stuff I want at a price that is competitive like powder, grips, primers, bullets, or whatever. I buy everything online now.
All I need is a place to shoot.
VooDoo
I'm just the opposite. If they were competitive, I would love to see reloading supplies, parts and accessories. Not a fan of indoor ranges.
Someone may have said it up top but I'd love a gunshop that would have different scopes lined up for viewership. All mounted on a base so that the gunshop and run a tracking test on it. Same with LRFs, binos, and triggers. Letting me get my dirty paws on the products would help me choose and I'd probably buy at the shop.
I buy from running stores cause they let me test tons of shoes and they make sure I don't overpronate while I run in the shoes.
I buy from running stores cause they let me test tons of shoes and they make sure I don't overpronate while I run in the shoes.
I'd rather shoot outside as well but live in a metropolitan area and my club range is an hour away. Having run a brick and mortar business for 20 years I have to say that I feel that those days are coming to an end. A store front is just too expensive in a niche/specialty field in this century to survive and be competitive. A store, upkeep, employees, stock, insurance, etc. adds too much to the product price to stay competitive. I'd love to support the LGS but they are often 50% over what I can order it for online...brick and mortar will soon fail in all but the biggest of urban areas - simply not enough sales.
Wish it weren't so but it's gonna get worse. Brick and mortar is doomed to a slow death where I am.
VooDoo
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I try to buy from the LGS, but just like speed shops 10-15 years ago - it’s far too costly for them to stock all the odd-ball stuff we are generally looking for. And like was already said, people walk in, fondle the merchandise, then go find it $10 cheaper online. It costs real money for buildings, insurance, utilities and employees, and of course the actual products they have to floor. Very little room left for profit unless the store can generate enough volume to make a go of it on the tight margins.
I am surprised there are as many gun stores surviving as there are.
I am surprised there are as many gun stores surviving as there are.
Targets and reloading supplies/ammo. I can see custom actions being tough, but the absense of lead time could be a good selling point. Chassis also. Little wear and tear due to fondling on those.
Hi,
Here is a business suggestion for a LGS type business model.
Specialize in transfers!! I mean like have 20 kiosk in which a single employee can overlook/manage the electronic system from their master terminal.
Have 1 employee pulling the firearms from storage.
Charge $25 for a transfer, which would take about 10 minutes compared to making $60 on a Glock that you had to be out hundreds of dollars on, time after time of showing it to people before someone actually purchases it.
As we see more and more sectors of the industry attempting to go direct to consumer as possible....it is only a matter of time before we see an actual firearms manufacturer come out and say they are direct to consumer and that they are setting up "recommended" transfer dealers instead of stocking dealers.
Sincerely,
Theis
Here is a business suggestion for a LGS type business model.
Specialize in transfers!! I mean like have 20 kiosk in which a single employee can overlook/manage the electronic system from their master terminal.
Have 1 employee pulling the firearms from storage.
Charge $25 for a transfer, which would take about 10 minutes compared to making $60 on a Glock that you had to be out hundreds of dollars on, time after time of showing it to people before someone actually purchases it.
As we see more and more sectors of the industry attempting to go direct to consumer as possible....it is only a matter of time before we see an actual firearms manufacturer come out and say they are direct to consumer and that they are setting up "recommended" transfer dealers instead of stocking dealers.
Sincerely,
Theis
Buds brick and mortar store in Tennessee was awash in firearms three years ago. I went by there this past December and they specialized in tshirts, hats and coolers. Ill not shop with them again. I can go to Cabelas and see what I saw there. The bottom line is, if you're selling hammers for a 5 buck profit and the guy across town is selling them at a 15 dollar profit, guess who's going to sell more hammers.
Locally, getting more than 10 or 15 bucks for a transfer, you're likely not doing a lot of business.
My rule of thumb is 10% plus the sales tax (9.1% for me) if the internet is 19% cheaper I’m buying online. That puts the $200 shipped online item at $238 or less for me to buy locally, it depends on how I feel that day, sometimes I just want to buy shit now. With the sales tax laws changing it may change my threshold, maybe I’ll change it to 15%. Buying ammo in bulk my orders are sizable enough and the ammo is discounted enough I don’t see myself going back to brick and mortar.
I was looking at a Glock 44 .22 pistol in a local shop yesterday, it was marked at $399. With tax it would cost me $436. Online it’s $369 plus $25 transfer at my local FFL. The $42 difference is well within my threshold even before the tax change. I passed because of the history of the first batch having problems, not because of the price.
It doesn't matter. Every business has a break-even point. Billy Bob's BBQ and Guns may need a 40 percent markup to stay in business. Bud's can probably get by on less.
Some LGS/FFL guys resent doing transfers, mine has embraced it and regards it as a steady revenue stream. His process for doing is quick and easy and his staff is well trained. He does at least 300 a month, and considers it worth his time. He is not, of course, going to survive doing only transfers, but ... it's nothing to sneeze at. He has also installed the cheap bulk ice system in the whole area, and offers a great line of YETI coolers, at very competive prices, as well as catering to the hard-core hunting crowd with clothing, gear, etc. In other words, he is being wise about these things. Plus he does sell a lot of firearms over the counter to folks who appreciate the one-on-one customer service (and he and his staff are great).
Buds is probably working on a 5% profit margin and they negotiated with the city/county for a tax break and others shit mom & pop can't get.
When I net it out, by the time I pay shipping and the transfer fee, and in some cases sales tax, it's usually cheaper to pay a little extra and buy firearms at my LGS. That said, loading supplies, equipment, etc, is always a better deal online. My LGS went to $35/lb on powder during the "shortage" and never readjusted prices. Surprisingly, he is cheaper than the big box stores on firearms. You just have to shop.
The main FFL transfer LGS I use charges $25 but will apply that towards any purchase you make in store at that time. They do a shit ton of transfers and I always end up buying more than the $25. Beyond labor, it really costs them nothing to do the transfer. They pass on any other fees like CBI's $8. Great way to get people in your store.
I used to only buy from or through small LGS but now I just do everything online and use the LGS for their FFL transfers. It wasn’t so much the prices/savings that pushed me to online only, but rather the lack of quality equipment and firearms, the hassle of getting a shop to put an order in for something they don’t carry, and the overall ignorant douchebaggery of most LGS employees.
I get every LGS in every town can’t stock the top of the line gear, but holy shit get something that isn’t bargain bin LA Police Gear closeout shit that’s one click above a back pager on Cheaper Than Dirt. Hire employees that don’t regurgitate random garbage from a trending YT video and look uncomfortable handling a firearm.
I’d like to see them carry quality match ammo (shit man even just more than one old box of FGMM would be nice to see in an LGS), bases, and rings. Better optic selections and Dewey cleaning gear.
The internet has killed the small/family-owned LGS model and the only thing keeping the big stores/chains in business are the customers who don’t know what they’re buying/doing. Sure there are some customers who go due to convenience, but let’s be real. They make their money on the dudes who go there to pay stacks over the going rate on everything.
When it came to buying ammo locally, I used to ask what they’d get _____ammo for and what it would cost for it if I ordered in bulk. They’d usually throw out a crazy number so I'd ask if they’d work on that price as it could be found for hundreds less online. Usually that “shocks” them because AmmoSeek is something they’ve apparently never heard of. Sorry man, I’ll pay ya $25 per box rather than paying $20 online, but I’m not paying you $38 per box for FGMM.
I get every LGS in every town can’t stock the top of the line gear, but holy shit get something that isn’t bargain bin LA Police Gear closeout shit that’s one click above a back pager on Cheaper Than Dirt. Hire employees that don’t regurgitate random garbage from a trending YT video and look uncomfortable handling a firearm.
I’d like to see them carry quality match ammo (shit man even just more than one old box of FGMM would be nice to see in an LGS), bases, and rings. Better optic selections and Dewey cleaning gear.
The internet has killed the small/family-owned LGS model and the only thing keeping the big stores/chains in business are the customers who don’t know what they’re buying/doing. Sure there are some customers who go due to convenience, but let’s be real. They make their money on the dudes who go there to pay stacks over the going rate on everything.
When it came to buying ammo locally, I used to ask what they’d get _____ammo for and what it would cost for it if I ordered in bulk. They’d usually throw out a crazy number so I'd ask if they’d work on that price as it could be found for hundreds less online. Usually that “shocks” them because AmmoSeek is something they’ve apparently never heard of. Sorry man, I’ll pay ya $25 per box rather than paying $20 online, but I’m not paying you $38 per box for FGMM.
Ugh, to say b&m shops cannot compete to online is a farce. Most online places have a b&m store, they just also sell online. A buddy has a shop like this. It does well as far as i can tell. You gotta store the product anyhow, and drop shipping in this industry only goes so far.
the real problem is the diversity in the 2a world. Wanna be COD guys, fudds, prs, f class, pistol guys, guys who want cheap ammo, guys who want reloading supplies(is that shit EVER in stock?),bird hunters/clay pigeon, collectors and newbs looking to see what guns are about. you CANNOT keep all these people happy. Just to stock enough stuff to keep half these people coming in would be a home depot sized building. And when you do have a hd sized building, its filled with dumb ass shit like cabelas and bass pro!!!! Then the prices are double or triple of online or good little stores!!! Fuck all that. I dont need mossy oak dog beds, overpriced beef jerky, displays of dead animals and waterfalls(although cool), just give me the gear at reasonable prices.
Ill pay 10% more , but over that and you’re out your mind. they mark shit up cause it doesn’t sell, so no quantity of items are sold, so they charge more to the few that are either ignorant or need it now.
the real problem is the diversity in the 2a world. Wanna be COD guys, fudds, prs, f class, pistol guys, guys who want cheap ammo, guys who want reloading supplies(is that shit EVER in stock?),bird hunters/clay pigeon, collectors and newbs looking to see what guns are about. you CANNOT keep all these people happy. Just to stock enough stuff to keep half these people coming in would be a home depot sized building. And when you do have a hd sized building, its filled with dumb ass shit like cabelas and bass pro!!!! Then the prices are double or triple of online or good little stores!!! Fuck all that. I dont need mossy oak dog beds, overpriced beef jerky, displays of dead animals and waterfalls(although cool), just give me the gear at reasonable prices.
Ill pay 10% more , but over that and you’re out your mind. they mark shit up cause it doesn’t sell, so no quantity of items are sold, so they charge more to the few that are either ignorant or need it now.
One thing: Fairly priced ammo. I don't expect them to match online prices. But, geez! Their prices are SO high, that I simply cannot justify purchasing ammo at the LGS.
Also... stock match grade rifle ammo. My LGS, which is a BIG one with multiple locations across the state... doesn't stock ANY match grade rifle ammo. And, yeah... ammo prices are stupid-high anyway.
So, yeah... the ammo thing. If the LGS did that, I'd visit WAY more often. And, of course, I'd be perusing other items, including guns. As it is now, I have little reason to even visit.
Also... stock match grade rifle ammo. My LGS, which is a BIG one with multiple locations across the state... doesn't stock ANY match grade rifle ammo. And, yeah... ammo prices are stupid-high anyway.
So, yeah... the ammo thing. If the LGS did that, I'd visit WAY more often. And, of course, I'd be perusing other items, including guns. As it is now, I have little reason to even visit.
Shit, the LGS could order ammo online and charge a few dollars more a box and I’d buy it. Instead they charge $10-$15 more per box than I pay WITH shipping. I swear, they have to be the dumbest motherfuckers on earth.
