Poll: One-Third of Americans Making $250K ‘Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck’

[PropWash]

Years ago there was a program on TV called, “Wall Street Week,” hosted by Louis Rukeyser and he had a saying:

”If your outgo exceeds your income; your upkeep will be your downfall.”

To that I would add: being able to buy is not the same as being able to afford.

Lastly, people many times sign up for what I will call a lifestyle curse - they create a expensive lifestyle with the subdivision/zip code they live in (a choice) and all the expensive toys (a choice) and then circumstances change and that lifestyle becomes an unaffordable situation.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

A good friend of mine locally deals with a guy that is a billionaire now that guy is a ”slum billionaire,” because he doesn’t even make the Forbes list. What I forgot to ask my friend that deals with the billionaire is: How does a guy disclose/mention/drop that he is a billionaire? And why would he do it? There is certainly no modesty or humility in doing so. So why would you disclose on a public forum you have five paid off homes and multiple large investment accounts?

Also you have ”zero sympathy,” I see. So maybe you’re a doctor by your user ID, so no one ever helped you, you‘re totally a self-made man? Whatever you do for a living I’ll give you this insight, if you were delayed in the birth canal of oxygen that resulted in you being mentally retarded and being a ward of the state with someone wiping drool off your mouth; you wouldn’t be on here bragging would you? See that is the thing about people that have zero sympathy they think many times it was all them, change a couple of scenarios or even one and poof, then maybe you would have sympathy and you wouldn’t be bragging on here. Eh, doc?

No one has helped me along the way while I worked hard. I got got scholarships for school and I have been on my own since I was 18. What I choose to disclose or not disclose is my business honestly. And it’s the internet so it’s probably all BS anyway. Regardless, my statement still stands. Live within your means. If you have the ability to make a more than modest income then you lose the ability for me to sympathize for you. The rest of your comment is just inane. If you have a physical or mental handicap then by all means, I sympathize and empathy for every one of those individuals. Life is hard enough facing it straight on. But that’s not what we are talking about here.

 

[Haney]

Imagine only making $250k and living in NYC, SF, LA, etc... Location location location...

Winner, nailed it .

 

[NiteQwill]

Whether true or not... Not surprised.

We have family in CA (both upper exec/management in the tech world) who make upwards of that. They live in LA due to their job, bought a house in 2022 because their LA rent was $4.5k/no, crazy expensive gas, groceries super expensive, crazy expensive utilities, etc.... Paycheck to paycheck is not uncommon. And just fwiw, both drive 14 year old cars and live pretty frugally.

It's the reality for many parts of the country in megaurban centers.

 

[akmike47]

I could live like a king on a total 250k for several years. My version of living like a king anyway.

 

[PropWash]

No one has helped me along the way while I worked hard. I got got scholarships for school and I have been on my own since I was 18. What I choose to disclose or not disclose is my business honestly. And it’s the internet so it’s probably all BS anyway. Regardless, my statement still stands. Live within your means. If you have the ability to make a more than modest income then you lose the ability for me to sympathize for you. The rest of your comment is just inane. If you have a physical or mental handicap then by all means, I sympathize and empathy for every one of those individuals. Life is hard enough facing it straight on. But that’s not what we are talking about here.

Doc, your reply was deflection and misdirection. Your a physician so I know you have reading comprehension skills. I wasn’t talking about the general population of the mentally retarded and you know it. I was talking about you being a braggadocio about your five paid for homes, large investment accounts and then you clearly being heartless and show zero empathy for people struggling, albeit, even if they are making $250/yr. - even people that are being honest in this thread. I was talking about you and if you were delayed in your own mother’s birth canal, during your own birth deprived of oxygen resulting in your own retardation, you wouldn’t be bragging about the self-made man you think you are, looking down on your perch to the $250k/yr peasants. Since you drop the name of Christ, how about, “except for the grace of God there go I.” How about because God gave you your next breath over and again back when you were at the university, here you are bragging and showing no compassion. Your not the only smart guy in the room, I saw through your reply for what it was.

Since you so quickly forget from your post recently:

“There are simple morals and values that I think most people can agree with even if you aren’t religious, such as a.) do not kill b.) do not steal c.) tell the truth and d.) respect others. Those are the minimum requirements for a society to be able to function properly. So if you can follow the minimum then society will be fine. And abortion is killing pure and simple. And you can denounce religion all you want but if everyone tries to at least follow Christs example then the world would be a much happier and peaceful place.”

Instead of looking for your sixth house to buy or how you can improve the return on your portfolio maybe consider printing off post #1 of this thread and your reply and go to a counselor and say, “I would like for you to read this and help me because I realize I am an arrogant, heartless ass and I don’t want to stay this way.“ Of course, you would have to actually believe that and actually want to find out why you are the way you are and really want to change.

The Apostle Paul said, “…I am chief among sinners…” I think if Paul were alive today, a more contemporary way of saying that would be, “I am chief among jerks.” And the way Paul treated people at times he was a jerk at times. Religion I have no use for, it has ruined so many people from having a desire to actually pursue relationship with God.

Who goes on the internet and brags about five paid for homes, unless as you alluded to it’s “all BS anyway, so maybe you are making up a story about yourself. Unless someone is in the strata of wealth such as the ultra-rich, why would anyone even own five homes? It’s poor stewardship at the very least.

Yes I will “denounce religion all I want,” thank you very much, Christ came to destroy the religion of the Pharisees and extend the gift of real relationship with Himself and for 2,000 years religious people continue to screw up what Christ did through the continuance of religion and by extension turning away people from God. Give careful thought to your ways…

 

[Bigfatcock]

Owning multiple houses gives you cash flow. Plus you can raise rents yearly if you want.

 

[elwarpo]

Why not live paycheck to paycheck and enjoy life. What are you going to do with all that money when you are old and can not afford it. Buy toys, take vacations, eat out... you have one spin on this rock and you do not know when it will end. While high earners live paycheck to paycheck, they can cut if necessary. Read the article, they pay off their credit cards at the end of the month. I have seen too many frugal people die with a shitload of money and not enjoy their life.

 

[PropWash]

Owning multiple houses gives you cash flow. Plus you can raise rents yearly if you want.

Yes, I get that for rental homes. I meant in the context of his large investment accounts it can be interpreted that he has five homes for his own personal/vacation use. If he meant five rentals then he isn’t doing as well as people that have dozens of rentals.

 

[PropWash]

Why not live paycheck to paycheck and enjoy life. What are you going to do with all that money when you are old and can not afford it. Buy toys, take vacations, eat out... you have one spin on this rock and you do not know when it will end. While high earners live paycheck to paycheck, they can cut if necessary. Read the article, they pay off their credit cards at the end of the month. I have seen too many frugal people die with a shitload of money and not enjoy their life.

Well I think what you wrote has merit at least to a degree, the path we are on is not sustainable.

If I recall US debt hit $1 trillion in 1980 when Reagan was president. Flash forward to Bush Jr it was about $4T when he left, when BO left it was around $9T, when Trump left it was around $17T and at present I don’t even want to go there. Draw the graph of the above debt numbers to the short time line and you will see that the debt is climbing like a fighter going near vertical at takeoff.

 

[458win]

It’s all about living within your means regardless of what income bracket you’re in.
I know people who make 50k a year that could literally quit anytime and screw off for two years and not be hurting financially.
I also know someone who has made between 250-500k a year for the past 18 years and is in a mountain of debt

 

[JM4590]

Hey! Yoooooo Hoooooo look look …..over here…..just another news media distraction story about how bad we all got it and how uncle Joe and the fuckstick liberals are gonna make it all better for us poor souls.

Did I mention COVID? COVID is raging again……COVID deaths on the rise…..


Every fucking time the public gets educated on what the hell is really going on……the libtards deflect and bring in another distraction…..


You can’t make it on ONE QUARTER MILLION PER YEAR…..yea…..no sympathy in my house.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

Doc, your reply was deflection and misdirection. Your a physician so I know you have reading comprehension skills. I wasn’t talking about the general population of the mentally retarded and you know it. I was talking about you being a braggadocio about your five paid for homes, large investment accounts and then you clearly being heartless and show zero empathy for people struggling, albeit, even if they are making $250/yr. - even people that are being honest in this thread. I was talking about you and if you were delayed in your own mother’s birth canal, during your own birth deprived of oxygen resulting in your own retardation, you wouldn’t be bragging about the self-made man you think you are, looking down on your perch to the $250k/yr peasants. Since you drop the name of Christ, how about, “except for the grace of God there go I.” How about because God gave you your next breath over and again back when you were at the university, here you are bragging and showing no compassion. Your not the only smart guy in the room, I saw through your reply for what it was.

Since you so quickly forget from your post recently:

“There are simple morals and values that I think most people can agree with even if you aren’t religious, such as a.) do not kill b.) do not steal c.) tell the truth and d.) respect others. Those are the minimum requirements for a society to be able to function properly. So if you can follow the minimum then society will be fine. And abortion is killing pure and simple. And you can denounce religion all you want but if everyone tries to at least follow Christs example then the world would be a much happier and peaceful place.”

You know who the most dangerous people are in the church? The religious ones, those who espouse rules, but have no relationship with Christ. You are no model to follow. Instead of looking for your sixth house to buy or how you can improve the return on your portfolio maybe consider printing off post #1 of this thread and your reply and go to a counselor and say, “I would like for you to read this and help me because I realize I am an arrogant, heartless ass and I don’t want to stay this way.“ Of course, you would have to actually believe that and actually want to find out why you are the way you are and really want to change.

The Apostle Paul said, “…I am chief among sinners…” I think if Paul were alive today, a more contemporary way of saying that would be, “I am chief among assholes.” And the way Paul treated people at times he was an asshole at times. Religion I have no use for, it has ruined so many people from having a desire to actually pursue relationship with God.

Who goes on the internet and brags about five paid for homes, unless as you alluded to it’s “all BS anyway, so maybe you are making up a story about yourself. Unless someone is in the strata of wealth such as the ultra-rich, why would anyone even own five homes? It’s poor stewardship at the very least.

Yes I will “denounce religion all I want,” thank you very much, Christ came to destroy the religion of the Pharisees and extend the gift of real relationship with Himself and for 2,000 years religious people continue to fuck up what Christ did through the continuance of religion and by extension turning away people from God. Give careful thought to your ways…

You clearly are stretching for something that is not there. I use my homes as rental income both short term and long term. It’s an investment strategy to gain passive income and if something to ever happen to me that my wife and children would have regular income to live off of regardless of what is in other accounts. So obviously you have something against people who work hard and invest their money because you are fixated on it.

I am very familiar with struggling as I have done so most of my adult life. I believe in hard work and self reliance. Being a Christian has nothing to do with people struggling with 250k+ yearly income. People need to learn to live within their means. Pretty simple concept and one that I would think even Jesus and his disciples would approve of. I don’t care what others do with their money. But complaining about how 250k isn’t enough when the average median income in America is what 60k/ year? If you can’t make it on 4 x what the average person brings home then you need to re-evaluate your priorities. I live a nice life but it’s not one of extravagance and luxury. It’s not something I aspire to. I probably won’t live long enough or have the desire to end my life with a zero balance. My father recently passed away. A product of the Great Depression. He was a real penny pincher. We lived in a house with dirt floors and plastic for windows for a large portion of my life until I was in middle school. He continued to live relatively poorly until he died. Turns out he was an investor and had large sums of money in certain accounts. So I also see the wisdom of spending your money when you are alive. You can’t take it with you. So I guess I get my frugalness from my dad but not to that extreme degree. I strongly believe that your life is what you make of it.

PS: as a Christian you are correct. I should have sympathy for everyone even those who I think are wasteful.

 

[PropWash]

So obviously you have something against people who work hard and invest their money because you are fixated on it.

I am very familiar with struggling as I have done so most of my adult life. I believe in hard work and self reliance. Being a Christian has nothing to do with people struggling with 250k+ yearly income. People need to learn to live within their means. Pretty simple concept and one that I would think even Jesus and his disciples would approve of.

You’re still deflecting and misdirecting. You go down paths that aren’t relevant to my reply. I have nothing against hard work or investing, using that toward me is baseless and is more deflection from what you wrote. If Jesus would have a problem with people not living within their means then he would have a problem with you thinking it’s funny that others are struggling and yes you wrote you thought it was funny when you read stories like this go back to your first post. $250k in SFC, SEA, or Greenwich, CT does not go anywhere near as far as rural MS or WV or KCMO or even ATL. Your reply would be people need to move elsewhere then and maybe some can and do not; others simply cannot. You have a very simplistic view of people and your actually hung up on the lack of money, your dad was frugal, but he also lived from a distorted place as he was from the depression era and that was a common fallout from people that went through that severe financial crisis and that got passed on to you, it’s not an attribute.

Turns out he was an investor and had large sums of money in certain accounts. So I also see the wisdom of spending your money when you are alive. You can’t take it with you. So I guess I get my frugalness from my dad but not to that extreme degree.

PS: as a Christian you are correct. I should have sympathy for everyone even those who I think are wasteful.

So you get an inheritance too and like not being deprived of oxygen at birth - how can you boast of either and why do you not have more compassion and empathy? I don’t know, I just know your not Christ-like. Just because someone else could be doing better financially with what they have does not make them less deserving of understanding than you with your obvious shortcomings. Growing up in a miserly home, because of fear of not having enough is obviously not healthy and impacted you negatively and overreacting and being ultra-vigilent with money because that was what was drilled into had consequences for you.

Yes you should have sympathy for everyone you think is wasteful - but that is your head talking as your heart is likely still indifferent since don’t have sympathy nor appear to have any conviction about it. And that takes me back to religion; a religious person can follow rules and be unchanged in their heart.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

You have a very simplistic view of people and your actually hung up on the lack of money, your dad was frugal, but he also lived from a distorted place as he was from the depression era and that was a common fallout from people that went through that severe financial crisis and that got passed on to you, it’s not an attribute.

Growing up in a miserly home, because of fear of not having enough is obviously not healthy and impacted you negatively and overreacting and being ultra-vigilent with money because that was what was drilled into had consequences for you.

What you see as a bad thing I see as a blessing. It taught me the value of hard work and nothing in life is going to be handed to you. But if the opposite was true, you would still find fault. Here is a simple look at Biblical views on personal finance. Anyway, I am done with this thread and those suffering from paycheck to paycheck making 250k+ year could use some of the advice in this link.

The Bible’s Warnings On Financial Foolishness

The bible gives a lot of advice on money. We can learn what we should do from these verses, and we can find instruction on what we should not do with money.

www.biblemoneymatters.com

 

[RUTGERS95]

a lot of glass houses here coupled with a lot of stupid comments. People shouldn't judge so quickly, not every part of the country is cheap and many people live within their means and still struggle.

 

[Rthur]

AKA a quarter of a million dollars...
While there are high rent areas the majority of the country this should work, and maybe well.
I'd wager credit card debt is eating some alive.
This ^^^ is why I haven't any.

R

 

[Bigfatcock]

Even if your rent was $10,000 a month, $120,000 a year, that would still leave you $130,000 a year.

Let’s say you have two $1,000 car payments. $2,000 a month, $24,000 per year.

Leaves you with $106,000.

$1,000 per month insurance would leave you $94,000 per year.

High end $1,000 per month groceries, leaves you $82,000 per year.

$1,000 a month utilities leaves you $70,000

$2,000 per month in frivolous spending leaves you with $46,000

$2,000 per month in hookers and blow leaves you with $22,000 to save and invest.

You can live a baller ass life on $250,000 per year…anywhere.

You’re literally financially retarded if you are living paycheck to paycheck at $250,000 per year.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Even if your rent was $10,000 a month, $120,000 a year, that would still leave you $130,000 a year.

Let’s say you have two $1,000 car payments. $2,000 a month, $24,000 per year.

Leaves you with $106,000.

$1,000 per month insurance would leave you $94,000 per year.

High end $1,000 per month groceries, leaves you $82,000 per year.

$1,000 a month utilities leaves you $70,000

$2,000 per month in frivolous spending leaves you with $46,000

$2,000 per month in hookers and blow leaves you with $22,000 to save and invest.

You can live a baller ass life on $250,000 per year…anywhere.

You’re literally financially retarded if you are living paycheck to paycheck at $250,000 per year.

Yep! I’d love to make that!

 

[W54/XM-388]

Even if your rent was $10,000 a month, $120,000 a year, that would still leave you $130,000 a year.

Let’s say you have two $1,000 car payments. $2,000 a month, $24,000 per year.

Leaves you with $106,000.

$1,000 per month insurance would leave you $94,000 per year.

High end $1,000 per month groceries, leaves you $82,000 per year.

$1,000 a month utilities leaves you $70,000

$2,000 per month in frivolous spending leaves you with $46,000

$2,000 per month in hookers and blow leaves you with $22,000 to save and invest.

You can live a baller ass life on $250,000 per year…anywhere.

You’re literally financially retarded if you are living paycheck to paycheck at $250,000 per year.

You forgot quite a bit of stuff.

Let's say you make $250,000 a year.

The Federal government wants $56,720 of that for themselves.
Then depending on your state, most states want another chunk of that for themselves
Your city may also want another chunk of that for themselves as well.

Then about that house, rent or own, you are still paying in the end for the taxes on that house, which could easily be another $10,000 or more

Then most things you buy probably have sales tax from the state or federal government or both, added to them one way or another.

By the time you are totally done counting ALL the taxes (or taxes posing as fees) for ALL the governments top to bottom and public agencies, I'll bet the amount of total taxation easily comes close to the $100,000 range.

You've also not put in any extra expenses related to having a family and kids.
One of you can't afford to stay home and take care of the kids, so daycare $$$$
You don't want your kids to go to the local garbage, unsafe public school? $$$$$$
You want to help pay for your kids' higher education $$$$$
Have you seen the cost of health insurance for a family if you have to pay it yourself $$$$


Laugh all you want, but don't be too sure you know it all unless you've been there and done that in a major urban area recently with current prices, not 10 years ago when money was worth a lot more.

 

[Bender]

That one-third would live paycheck-to-paycheck regardless of their income.

This. Forever.

 

[SilentStalkr]

You forgot quite a bit of stuff.

Let's say you make $250,000 a year.

The Federal government wants $56,720 of that for themselves.
Then depending on your state, most states want another chunk of that for themselves
Your city may also want another chunk of that for themselves as well.

Then about that house, rent or own, you are still paying in the end for the taxes on that house, which could easily be another $10,000 or more

Then most things you buy probably have sales tax from the state or federal government or both, added to them one way or another.

By the time you are totally done counting ALL the taxes (or taxes posing as fees) for ALL the governments top to bottom and public agencies, I'll bet the amount of total taxation easily comes close to the $100,000 range.

You've also not put in any extra expenses related to having a family and kids.
One of you can't afford to stay home and take care of the kids, so daycare $$$$
You don't want your kids to go to the local garbage, unsafe public school? $$$$$$
You want to help pay for your kids' higher education $$$$$
Have you seen the cost of health insurance for a family if you have to pay it yourself $$$$


Laugh all you want, but don't be too sure you know it all unless you've been there and done that in a major urban area recently with current prices, not 10 years ago when money was worth a lot more.

Yeah, I agree, but some of us doing all of this with a hell of a lot less than $250k. Again, I’d love to make that. My wife could then stay at home full time and I might, just might be able to get some shit done around here, like finish my basement, fix all the shit that needs some attention around here and so on.

 

[SilentStalkr]

@The King You still ain’t said what you do for a living!?

 

[NiteQwill]

Even if your rent was $10,000 a month, $120,000 a year, that would still leave you $130,000 a year.

Let’s say you have two $1,000 car payments. $2,000 a month, $24,000 per year.

Leaves you with $106,000.

$1,000 per month insurance would leave you $94,000 per year.

High end $1,000 per month groceries, leaves you $82,000 per year.

$1,000 a month utilities leaves you $70,000

$2,000 per month in frivolous spending leaves you with $46,000

$2,000 per month in hookers and blow leaves you with $22,000 to save and invest.

You can live a baller ass life on $250,000 per year…anywhere.

You’re literally financially retarded if you are living paycheck to paycheck at $250,000 per year.

I'm guessing you've never paid taxes

 

[TheOE800]

I'm guessing you've never paid taxes

Fucking seriously. Kept reading and waiting for it, but it never showed up.

 

[Bigfatcock]

I'm guessing you've never paid taxes

I pay taxes.

Let’s use California for our example today since they’re generally known as a very expensive place to live:

$160,000 take home.

Let’s adjust our spending like anyone in history who can do the simple math of money in VS money out:

What: Monthly: Yearly:
Rent. $5,500. $66,000
Cars $750x2. $18,000
Insurance $1,000. $12,000
Groceries $1,000. $12,000
Frivolous. $1,000. $12,000
Hookers and blow $1,000. $12,000
Utilities $1,000. $12,000

That leaves you $16,000.

Like any person in history who understands how to not be broke as fuck, we can adjust some things.

Cut back on the hookers and blow, and you add $12,000 back to the budget to keep kids safe from dangerous public schools.

Get cheaper vehicles and reduce car payments to around $450.00 or less per month gives more money for crotch fruit.

Run the AC less and more money for crotch fruit

Cut frivolous spending by $200 per month.

Find cheaper rent and cut the budget even more.

As I said above, if you live paycheck to paycheck on $250,000 per year, you need to attend a basic budgeting class.

 

[Conaso]

There must be a personal-finances equivalent to the "Peter Principle".

FYI - The Peter Principle is a human resource theory. The overall concept of his theory is that people within an organization are promoted until they reach a level at which they are incompetent.

I understand the need for taxes but it aggravates the hell out of me when I see the waste and corruption.in local government. Like the free gym and $100k conference table with logo in the county gov't building. Or the marble countertops in the Gov't-owned public housing.

 

[kenny1773]

The person making $250k a year is trying to live like they make $500k a year
that is the basic problem

Its not that things can't be adjusted to make it work out, its that things are being adjusted to make it look like they make more than $250k year to their friends/family/neighbors on purpose.

I use to live in a area where most people were like this, they easily leveraged themselves to live like they made twice what they actually made, no matter how much they made. In today's world, there is no limit to what you can spend on housing, cars, vacations, clothes

Lots of people laugh at me for driving a 17 year old car. I can afford a new car, I just don't want to.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I pay taxes.

Let’s use California for our example today since they’re generally known as a very expensive place to live:

View attachment 7889828

$160,000 take home.

Let’s adjust our spending like anyone in history who can do the simple math of money in VS money out:

What: Monthly: Yearly:
Rent. $5,500. $66,000
Cars $750x2. $18,000
Insurance $1,000. $12,000
Groceries $1,000. $12,000
Frivolous. $1,000. $12,000
Hookers and blow $1,000. $12,000
Utilities $1,000. $12,000

That leaves you $16,000.

Like any person in history who understands how to not be broke as fuck, we can adjust some things.

Cut back on the hookers and blow, and you add $12,000 back to the budget to keep kids safe from dangerous public schools.

Get cheaper vehicles and reduce car payments to around $450.00 or less per month gives more money for crotch fruit.

Run the AC less and more money for crotch fruit

Cut frivolous spending by $200 per month.

Find cheaper rent and cut the budget even more.

As I said above, if you live paycheck to paycheck on $250,000 per year, you need to attend a basic budgeting class.

my problem here is the tax rate. NO fking way should we have to pay 35% in taxes

 

[Bigfatcock]

my problem here is the tax rate. NO fking way should we have to pay 35% in taxes

I am extremely unhappy about taxes too. The issue is, people have no clue how much they pay in taxes. That’s why it’s important for the government to take it out of your check.

If everyone got paid their full amount, and had to write a tax check to the government every month, we’d have a revolt in the first month.

And it’s not just mandatory taxes through your paycheck.

Sales tax
Gas tax
Green energy tax
Capital gains tax
Property tax
Water/sewage tax

Etc.

I’d say you’re probably closer to 45% tax rate after all is said and done.

Taxes on it when you earn it
Taxes on it when you spend it
Taxes on your family when you croak.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I am extremely unhappy about taxes too. The issue is, people have no clue how much they pay in taxes. That’s why it’s important for the government to take it out of your check.

If everyone got paid their full amount, and had to write a tax check to the government every month, we’d have a revolt in the first month.

And it’s not just mandatory taxes through your paycheck.

Sales tax
Gas tax
Green energy tax
Capital gains tax
Property tax
Water/sewage tax

Etc.

I’d say you’re probably closer to 45% tax rate after all is said and done.

Taxes on it when you earn it
Taxes on it when you spend it
Taxes on your family when you croak.

I agree and that should be an amendment change. I know we have the option to pay at end of year but Gov't should not be allowed to take by paycheck without people acknowledging exactly how much annually is going to them

 

[Bigfatcock]

I agree and that should be an amendment change. I know we have the option to pay at end of year but Gov't should not be allowed to take by paycheck without people acknowledging exactly how much annually is going to them

I believe any tax should be attached to a specific purchase/investment, be voted on, and then sunset once purchase/project/investment is complete.

It’s 2022, so the vote could go to all actual tax payers easily with the technology we have.

This is why financial illiteracy is extremely important to our “leaders”.

 

[Handloader]

I don't do debt, I invest damn near $70k between TSP and IRA's between my wife and I every year, and don't keep up with the Jones'. I buy used cars and keep them running until they are dead (300,000 plus miles). That said, I find it hard to buy crotch candy when I am using cash. To physically exchange your hard work for a $25 k sidexside just don't work for me. That's why we don't live pay-day to pay-day in my house.

 

[Conaso]

I have to admit splurging by buying new tennis shoes about every three months. Walmart has those velcro ones for about $12-15. About three months use the inside lining falls out so they get regulated to using for yardwork.

 

[ToddM]

Consumers really only have themselves to blame for a lot of this. Look at the prices for shit these days. It's NOT just inflation it's people being convinced they need super expensive shit AND being dumb enough to buy it when they really can't afford it. It's why we have $1000 bipods, $700 scope mounts, the list goes on. Think about that, $1000 for a bipod......meanwhile you can buy a "5000 yard" Sig 3000 BDX binocular rangefinder with ballistics in it for under $1000. Sig must wake up every day thinking "Jesus, guys are paying $1000 for a BIPOD, we have to jack up our prices!". 10 years ago everyone complained the B&T bipods were too expensive, now they're the "budget" option.

I know tons of guys that own Yeti coolers, many multiple ones......$400+ for a COOLER.....is it great, sure, we used to use them for work in the desert, but if I told my grandfather who survived D-day on the beach I spent $400 for a cooler, even inflation corrected, he'd beat my ass, wait for me to heal and beat it again.

I saw a portable take down table the other day, little guy like 20"x38", looked nice, sturdy, for overland/camping etc......$700.......plastic table with aluminum legs.....not even carbon fiber......if you want add ons $1000, for a portable plastic table. Buying shit like this is why people a lot of people are broke.

I looked at mud flaps for a truck the other day, several guys recommended a certain brand.......depending on options.....$400-$700.....for MUD FLAPS.......you can't make this shit up.

15 years ago you never saw anyone at the range with Swarovski/leica gear, now it's pretty common.....again 15 years ago almost no one was dropping $4k for a spotting scope, not even $1k, not even $500. Now it's common.

People pay $1200+ for a cell phone, and then $200 a month to use it, and want a new one in 12 months. That or they were conned into $35 a month for 36 months for the cell phone they want to replace in 12.

Also I don't make $250k, but I make around $155k, and I'm not complaining, I'm grateful I have a good job and I do well with the money I get, but I can tell you the take home is always way smaller no matter what you make. For example, by the time I max my 401k, HSA, take out taxes, pay benefits, etc. my $155k salary is really $85k put in my actual paycheck. Rent and utilities take that down to about $55k, add in a student loan, car payment, and that's down to $40k. Insurance knocks that down to about $37k, groceries and fuel, down to about $25k. So that basically leaves about $2k a month "surplus" (cell phone, internet, travel, clothes, anything breaks, etc., ammo, etc.). Again, I'm not complaining, my student loans got me a good job, and I drove the same truck for 22 years so I'm not bothered by finally having a truck payment now for something nice. Plus at 2% car loan I can make my $ earn more than that in returns compared to buying the truck outright.

Don't get me wrong, inflation has increased prices, and we can make lots of posts about how wages have not kept up with inflation for 20+ years, and the feds game the inflation numbers to be artificially low (because they do), etc. Also how companies take advantage of things like Covid and Government as scapegoats to increase their prices blame free, but a lot of it is also people let themselves be convinced to buy expensive shit that is ridiculously overpriced, and keep themselves poor WAY too easily, and then it becomes the norm.

 

[ToddM]

If everyone got paid their full amount, and had to write a tax check to the government every month, we’d have a revolt in the first month.

This is absolutely true, most people never do the math, they just live off what gets put in their paycheck. We all talk about our "salary" but we think about the before tax number when we should be thinking about the after tax number. Buddy of mine has said this for decades, if people got all their salary money put in their paycheck and had to write a check for their taxes every month, there would have been riots over taxes long ago.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Consumers really only have themselves to blame for a lot of this. Look at the prices for shit these days. It's NOT just inflation it's people being convinced they need super expensive shit AND being dumb enough to buy it when they really can't afford it. It's why we have $1000 bipods, $700 scope mounts, the list goes on. Think about that, $1000 for a bipod......meanwhile you can buy a "5000 yard" Sig 3000 BDX binocular rangefinder with ballistics in it for under $1000. Sig must wake up every day thinking "Jesus, guys are paying $1000 for a BIPOD, we have to jack up our prices!". 10 years ago everyone complained the B&T bipods were too expensive, now they're the "budget" option.

I know tons of guys that own Yeti coolers, many multiple ones......$400+ for a COOLER.....is it great, sure, we used to use them for work in the desert, but if I told my grandfather who survived D-day on the beach I spent $400 for a cooler, even inflation corrected, he'd beat my ass, wait for me to heal and beat it again.

I saw a portable take down table the other day, little guy like 20"x38", looked nice, sturdy, for overland/camping etc......$700.......plastic table with aluminum legs.....not even carbon fiber......if you want add ons $1000, for a portable plastic table. Buying shit like this is why people a lot of people are broke.

I looked at mud flaps for a truck the other day, several guys recommended a certain brand.......depending on options.....$400-$700.....for MUD FLAPS.......you can't make this shit up.

15 years ago you never saw anyone at the range with Swarovski/leica gear, now it's pretty common.....again 15 years ago almost no one was dropping $4k for a spotting scope, not even $1k, not even $500. Now it's common.

People pay $1200+ for a cell phone, and then $200 a month to use it, and want a new one in 12 months. That or they were conned into $35 a month for 36 months for the cell phone they want to replace in 12.

Also I don't make $250k, but I make around $155k, and I'm not complaining, I'm grateful I have a good job and I do well with the money I get, but I can tell you the take home is always way smaller no matter what you make. For example, by the time I max my 401k, HSA, take out taxes, pay benefits, etc. my $155k salary is really $85k put in my actual paycheck. Rent and utilities take that down to about $55k, add in a student loan, car payment, and that's down to $40k. Insurance knocks that down to about $37k, groceries and fuel, down to about $25k. So that basically leaves about $2k a month "surplus" (cell phone, internet, travel, clothes, anything breaks, etc., ammo, etc.). Again, I'm not complaining, my student loans got me a good job, and I drove the same truck for 22 years so I'm not bothered by finally having a truck payment now for something nice. Plus at 2% car loan I can make my $ earn more than that in returns compared to buying the truck outright.

Don't get me wrong, inflation has increased prices, and we can make lots of posts about how wages have not kept up with inflation for 20+ years, and the feds game the inflation numbers to be artificially low (because they do), etc. Also how companies take advantage of things like Covid and Government as scapegoats to increase their prices blame free, but a lot of it is also people let themselves be convinced to buy expensive shit that is ridiculously overpriced, and keep themselves poor WAY too easily, and then it becomes the norm.

Very good post.

 

[W54/XM-388]

again 15 years ago almost no one was dropping $4k for a spotting scope, not even $1k, not even $500. Now it's common.

People pay $1200+ for a cell phone, and then $200 a month to use it, and want a new one in 12 months. That or they were conned into $35 a month for 36 months for the cell phone they want to replace in 12.

You are completely ignoring how inflation actually works and as such totally playing into the hand of the government's hidden taxation scheme.
In real money terms a $4000 spotting scope today costs you the same purchasing power as $2000 did 15 years ago.
The government is keeping the debt cycle going by robbing you of the value of your money every year and convincing folks that they just need to "live on less, or be more frugal" as the government keeps making your money more worthless so they can spend it and get away with it.

15 years ago $250,000 a year was a nice higher end income, today in many urban places it's barely enough to have a decent upper middle class income.

People want to have nice things that last, are reliable and work well, the cost of them has just increased hugely.
15 years ago I was buying AI rifles and S&B scopes, now the MSRP on those items is almost double what they were when I last bought them, but the cost in actual real purchasing power terms is they are no more expensive than they were back then.

Are you going to go all blathering on about how stupid people are to be filing up their gas tanks for $150 when 15 years ago nobody in their right mind would pay more than $20 for their tank of gas???

Not everybody likes buying cheap Chinese made crap and if you want to buy good quality items built in the USA or by our allies, it's going to cost you.
Sure you could buy a UTG bipod and be happy with how cheap you got it.

I'm glad you love your old cars,
I actually ran the numbers in detail over years of ownership and the costs in fuel and maintenance for older used vehicles in recent years made the total cost of ownership more expensive than a newer one in many cases. In addition right now used cars are not all that great of a deal compared to new cars.

Back 20 years ago $2000 would get you a decent used car, today that same used car would be $10,000 or more.
Driving an older car made sense 10 or so years ago when used car prices were low and gasoline was low and repairs were low.
Now, not so much, thanks again to our government.

Getting a University Degree which is required for many fields, 10 years ago cost less than half what it does now.
Again thanks to the corrupting influence of the government and their profit guarantees to the student loan corporations.
Sure, you could decide that all our doctors, lawyers, teachers and engineers should just come from India and Americans should only be tradespeople, but not everybody agrees with that idea.

 

[ToddM]

Inflation doesn't cover the price increases is part of the problem. Back in 2003, crap that's 19 years ago, I bought my Swarovski ATS-HD 80mm was $1400, still have it. If you corrected that for inflation a new one should only be $2200......yet it's about $3k now, that's 30% higher than inflation alone would suggest. I can also tell you at that time, almost no one I ran into had one, now you go to the range on any day and you'll see multiples of scopes that expensive. We know wages haven't gone up, it's just that the average people are willing to spend a lot more of their $ for things than they used to.

My point is people get convinced they need stuff that's more expensive than it should be, $400 for a cooler.....come on. Now that's only the fault of the consumer for paying it, but again consumers are idiots as a whole. You don't have to buy a $10 styrofoam cooler, but at some point I draw the line with what is IMO being taken advantage of by companies charging ridiculous prices for gear. That doesn't mean a B&T bipod for $300 won't work and last like someone else's $1000 bipod will. The only other option isn't to go buy a $50 junk bipod.

Wages are also part of the bigger problem, they have not even kept up with inflation, median income isn the US has not increased much at all since 2000, but the prices of everything have gone up, but it's more than just inflation. Companies no longer see employees as assets they are simply expenses to be minimized.

Your point on cars is exactly why I bought new this time around. Used cars were almost as expensive as new cars. When I bought my last vehicle in 1999, it was a $30k SUV with 35,000 miles on it in great shape and it was $12k, drove it for 20 years, almost 300k miles, and I guarantee outside normal maintenance I didn't spend more than $15k in repairs over that 20 years. Only big repair was a transmission at about 150k. You simply can't do that anymore, I also did almost all the work on that vehicle myself over it's life, again something you really can't do on new cars anymore. So that game has changed, hell JUST the headlight in my new truck is $1200, and that's not the labor to replace it.

I also agree student loans are bad as they are, they allow colleges to increase costs at a rate most could never afford. As long as the government offers loans for whatever the college charges instead of capping them, colleges can raise prices with no loss of students.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Consumers really only have themselves to blame for a lot of this. Look at the prices for shit these days. It's NOT just inflation it's people being convinced they need super expensive shit AND being dumb enough to buy it when they really can't afford it. It's why we have $1000 bipods, $700 scope mounts, the list goes on. Think about that, $1000 for a bipod......meanwhile you can buy a "5000 yard" Sig 3000 BDX binocular rangefinder with ballistics in it for under $1000. Sig must wake up every day thinking "Jesus, guys are paying $1000 for a BIPOD, we have to jack up our prices!". 10 years ago everyone complained the B&T bipods were too expensive, now they're the "budget" option.

I know tons of guys that own Yeti coolers, many multiple ones......$400+ for a COOLER.....is it great, sure, we used to use them for work in the desert, but if I told my grandfather who survived D-day on the beach I spent $400 for a cooler, even inflation corrected, he'd beat my ass, wait for me to heal and beat it again.

I saw a portable take down table the other day, little guy like 20"x38", looked nice, sturdy, for overland/camping etc......$700.......plastic table with aluminum legs.....not even carbon fiber......if you want add ons $1000, for a portable plastic table. Buying shit like this is why people a lot of people are broke.

I looked at mud flaps for a truck the other day, several guys recommended a certain brand.......depending on options.....$400-$700.....for MUD FLAPS.......you can't make this shit up.

15 years ago you never saw anyone at the range with Swarovski/leica gear, now it's pretty common.....again 15 years ago almost no one was dropping $4k for a spotting scope, not even $1k, not even $500. Now it's common.

People pay $1200+ for a cell phone, and then $200 a month to use it, and want a new one in 12 months. That or they were conned into $35 a month for 36 months for the cell phone they want to replace in 12.

Also I don't make $250k, but I make around $155k, and I'm not complaining, I'm grateful I have a good job and I do well with the money I get, but I can tell you the take home is always way smaller no matter what you make. For example, by the time I max my 401k, HSA, take out taxes, pay benefits, etc. my $155k salary is really $85k put in my actual paycheck. Rent and utilities take that down to about $55k, add in a student loan, car payment, and that's down to $40k. Insurance knocks that down to about $37k, groceries and fuel, down to about $25k. So that basically leaves about $2k a month "surplus" (cell phone, internet, travel, clothes, anything breaks, etc., ammo, etc.). Again, I'm not complaining, my student loans got me a good job, and I drove the same truck for 22 years so I'm not bothered by finally having a truck payment now for something nice. Plus at 2% car loan I can make my $ earn more than that in returns compared to buying the truck outright.

Don't get me wrong, inflation has increased prices, and we can make lots of posts about how wages have not kept up with inflation for 20+ years, and the feds game the inflation numbers to be artificially low (because they do), etc. Also how companies take advantage of things like Covid and Government as scapegoats to increase their prices blame free, but a lot of it is also people let themselves be convinced to buy expensive shit that is ridiculously overpriced, and keep themselves poor WAY too easily, and then it becomes the norm.

could not have said it better. people are dumb

 

[beenjammin]

I have actually heard of this. People making car and mortgage payments every other month... just when the banks come knocking they make a minimum payment and the cycle keeps going until they have gotten their use out of it and sell... If it works for them fine... Seems too risky to me, but amazingly thats how a lot of folks have those lake houses and brand new f250s.

 

[acudaowner]

making life work on substantially less money than that and the range will be mine tomorrow yea for range day .