Rifle Scopes POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

[Blackrifle1]

Whats your preference for your rifle scope?

Please tell me why you prefer Mil or Moa. -thanks!

 

[GhostFace]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I choose MOA/MOA because I am a stubborn American who refuses to use the metric system. I range in yards not meters and I think in terms of minutes not mils. If I were in another country or in he military I would go with mils but I am not so it's MOA for me. I cant wait for the Vortex XLR reticle!

 

[CSTactical]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I prefer MIL on MIL but MOA on MOA works well also.

Mike CST

 

[slowkota]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GhostFace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I choose MOA/MOA because I am a stubborn American who refuses to use the metric system. I range in yards not meters and I think in terms of minutes not mils. If I were in another country or in he military I would go with mils but I am not so it's MOA for me. I cant wait for the Vortex XLR reticle! </div></div>

Haha same here! Or IPHY.

 

[Rob01]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GhostFace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I choose MOA/MOA because I am a stubborn American who refuses to use the metric system. I range in yards not meters and I think in terms of minutes not mils. If I were in another country or in he military I would go with mils but I am not so it's MOA for me. I cant wait for the Vortex XLR reticle!</div></div>

Mils are not metric. I range in yards and use mils.

 

[Playerz1337]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mils are not metric. I range in yards and use mils. </div></div>

Same here, I understand yards and MILs are simple.

 

[billyburl2]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

A mil is a mil. Has nothing to do with any linear measure... At all, ever. Same is also true of MOA, but that is also a whole other arguement.

 

[Daveup]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I have used MOA for 40 years and it is easier for me to use. I use Vortex 6-24.

 

[slowkota]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I'll be honest and say that I've never owned or used a scope with Mil adjustments. MOA turrets and reticles only, so thats all I know.

 

[Guest]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

IPHY/IPHY,... Started with MOA long, long ago. Switched to IPHY about 7-8 years ago and never looked back. All my target data is in inch's so nothing to convert or factor.
Target size/reticle subtention X 100 = range to target

 

[0311@LAR]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

MIL/MIL here, just seems more intuitive to me. Kinda the KISS philosiphy I guess.

 

[Hennig]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Mil/Mil. All Ive ever used on my rifles.

 

[HajjWhisperer]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

IPHY/IPHY, easiest for me to wrap my head around

 

[HajjWhisperer]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

IPHY/IPHY, easiest for me to wrap my head around

 

[TNtrg.300]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

MOA/MOA

 

[wIg SpLiTtEr]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I find MIL's much easier to work with. Once you get used to it it is both faster and easier measurement to use. There's nothing wrong with MOA but that's my 2 cents. I would recommend you do some research on this before you take everyone's word. Your going to get a lot of "MOA/MOA" from non-military Americans. Take the time to learn in and chances are you wont regret it!

 

[Guest]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShOoTiN2KiLl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Your going to get a lot of "MOA/MOA" from non-military Americans.</div></div>
Just what the hell is that supposed to mean?
Some of us were pulling the trigger for Uncle long before most present day Military shooters were even born.

 

[psinclair]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

mil/mil....meters too. Most of the guys I shoot with range in yards and shoot in mils. It's good to know both.

 

[Ledzep]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I like MOA/MOA (I'm military, too).

I understand and can use Mils, but don't. It's mostly standardization because my first scopes were MOA, and it worked, so why change?

If I was fluent in the metric system, I might convert. I know that they're angular measures and independent of any length measurement, but there's no denying that Mils and base-10 metric fits like a glove.

IPHY is also somewhat appealing, but I'll deal with the 1.047 for now.

 

[kansas]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I'm new to the longrange shooting sport however it would seem to me that moa/moa would be great however one of the shooters that is giving me some guidance insist that the only way to go is mil/mil. I'd like to have a NF scope and they are plentiful in moa/moa but mil/mil hikes the price up quite a bit. Probably will start with a Vortex PST.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

i use MOA's

gave reason but mods kept changing my words and playing fuck fuck games

 

[bengates]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GhostFace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I choose MOA/MOA because I am a stubborn American who refuses to use the metric system. I range in yards not meters and I think in terms of minutes not mils. If I were in another country or in he military I would go with mils but I am not so it's MOA for me. I cant wait for the Vortex XLR reticle!</div></div>

Mils are not metric. I range in yards and use mils. </div></div>

I second that. People need to get it out of their heads that Mils are Metric and Minutes are standard. They're both angles.

 

[z71rat]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I used the MIL reticles with MOA turrets for what seems like forever. Always had my conversion tables handy for everything that I was shooting.

I decided to give the MIL/MIL system a try about 1-1/2 years ago. I took to that system so easy, it made me wonder why I hadn't done that years ago.

DK

 

[Black Majik]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I prefer MOA/MOA but use MIL/MIL since that's what my group uses.

 

[highridge1]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

MOA for sure

 

[SRSDriver]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GhostFace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I choose MOA/MOA because I am a stubborn American who refuses to use the metric system. I range in yards not meters and I think in terms of minutes not mils. If I were in another country or in he military I would go with mils but I am not so it's MOA for me. I cant wait for the Vortex XLR reticle! </div></div>

You realize that the units you range in don't really have to affect anything with your reticle?

I use mil/mil and range in yards.

The nice thing about mil/mil is everything becomes divide by 10's, much easier units to work with.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

i use both, go with whats comfortable for you.

 

[KTDLS7]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Preference? Mil-Mil

Mil is NOT metric system, so I don't understand the "I am an American" statement. You can range in yds, meters, inches, feet, miles, kilometers, etc.

What ever you get, ensure reticle & turrets match.

Kevin

 

[Bedlam]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ktdls7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Preference? Mil-Mil

Mil is NOT metric system, so I don't understand the "I am an American" statement. You can range in yds, meters, inches, feet, miles, kilometers, etc.</div></div>

Since you don't understand, I will explain. I almost always shoot steel targets, which are measured in inches. For example, 6", 10", and 12" plates. Some times I shoot sight-in paper with 1 inch boxes, or rings measured in inches. Either way, I know what I'm shooting in inches. I tend to think of shooting distances in "hundreds of yards", not in feet or in fractions of miles. So IPHY and MOA work really well for me.

Sure, MIL is just a 1/1000 ratio. But given what I shoot, having to use the same unit for the distance and the target size is much harder. You say you can range in yards, inches, meters, miles, etc. But, for example, so how tall is a 10" steel plate in yards? Miles? Meters? Uhhhhhh.... math time.

TL;DR
If you tend to think of targets in inches and shooting distances in hundreds of yards, ranging in MOA is easier.

P.S. In my opinion the most important factor when choosing one or the other is to pick the same units your shooting buddies use. This will make shooting together, learning, spotting, and adjustments easier.

 

[Rob01]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But, for example, so how tall is a 10" steel plate in yards? Miles? Meters? Uhhhhhh.... math time.

</div></div>

Who cares. Those are linear units. Why do you need to make a 10" target anything?

That's what people don't grasp. You don't have to change anything. You don't have to make mils or MOA some linear measurement. If I am making a correction then I use the reticle as a ruler and make it. Not how many inches is that shot off but looking at the reticle and seeing it's .5 mils or 1.75 MOA. Make the correction with a dial or hold and take the shot. No math or conversions.

I use the same steel sizes in inches and shoot at ranges in yards. That doesn't mean anything whether you shoot in mils or MOA.

MOA ranging isn't easier. You will be using a calculator, mildot master or cheat sheet if you are ranging anyways. If it comes down to you having to range something by doing the math in your head then something has gone seriously wrong.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
P.S. In my opinion the most important factor when choosing one or the other is to pick the same units your shooting buddies use. This will make shooting together, learning, spotting, and adjustments easier.</div></div>

That I agree with. Use the same system in the reticle and on the dials no matter what you choose.

 

[Ledzep]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Rob, I think what he's getting at is that doing the math in your head is easier with MOA or IPHY than with mils, when you think in terms of inches/yards.

I mean if it came down to it, and I had to range a target I knew was 18" tall and 3.75 MOA, I'd guess it's around 450-500yd away fairly quickly (running that in my head took about 10 seconds). Obviously it's no LRF, but it gives a ball-park guess that can be corrected for on follow up shots if I'm in a real time crunch. I'm certainly better off than multiplying by 27.78 or whatever.. LOL

And the math is definitely cleaner doing mils with centimeters and meters. Not going to argue that it can't be done either way, it's just cleaner with a base-10 system.

edit: Going back to my reference earlier. An 18" target probably wasn't the best number to prove a point, since it's coincidentally half a yard, and 3.75 MOA is coincidentally just over 1 mil, which is easy math for slightly less than 500yd using mils... But I hope you can see my point... or maybe I just proved to myself that either works with enough practice.

 

[GhostFace]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Well I had always thought because mils is a 1/1000 and most mils scopes adjust in 1/10 of a mil in order to keep things simple and faster you would range in meters. I know mils is a linear measurement but once again I figured keeping all things the same it would be easier and quicker. But like I said I think in terms of MOAs and I was trained in using MOA adjustments I will just stick with it.

 

[majohnson2]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

The one issue is not all manufactures make MIL scopes, more so for the higher end scopes.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Love people who bring it back to math and ranging both of which are unnecessary except in rare occasions. As if you buy a scope, match the turrets and then act like they are going out and reticle ranging every shot...

There is no math, there is no thinking, you read the reticle and if you are forced to range something, use a math-less chart. Doing the long hand is just stupid. As if multiplying 95.5 is easier than using 27.7, it's exactly the same.

Reticle ranging is a legacy skill that has nothing to with which system is easier or better. You can reticle range without doing math while still looking at the target in inches, faster than it takes to read one sentence.

The problem with MOA is there is no standard, nor are companies consistent in how much they actually adjust the movement or combine it with a reticle. They tell you MOA and give you IPHY and then go and mix MOA Reticles with IPHY turrets. All they same people talking about ranging probably haven't even bothered to look and realize the problems found because calling it an MOA is common while adjusting in IPHY.

Mils don't suffer these issues.

 

[m1match]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I think in this day and age it's silly to not use mil/mil scopes if you have a choice.

 

[gugubica]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: majohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one issue is not all manufactures make MIL scopes, more so for the higher end scopes. </div></div>

Uhhh...what?


This topic has been covered, guys...a lot. Bottom line, you are over thinking it. It doesn't mater one freakn bit.

You range, you look at your DOPE, you fire, you see the impact (or your buddy calls the corection), you adjust, you hit...done, no math, no bullshit, who gives a shit what system the ruler is calibrated in.

I am curious, though, how many of the proponents of one system over the other know exactly what their scope adjusts in...not just what it says, but what's the error, is the reticle exactly matched to the turrets, is it at max power, 22, 20.6, is it FFP, if so, does it map correctly? There are a lot more important things than system.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: majohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one issue is not all manufactures make MIL scopes, more so for the higher end scopes. </div></div>

Ignorance runs deep in this thread, what you meant to say was, all the best scopes <span style="text-decoration: underline">have</span> been mil, mil, they only recently started making them MOA, MOA. Even then, or now, not so much.

 

[operator74656]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I have NF 5.5-22x56 ZS with moa and np-r1 and it works well for me

 

[Blackrifle1]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

thanks for all the replies....this is like a Ford vs Chevy debate!!!

 

[Nukes]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Mils are decimal based. What could be easier?

 

[gutshot53]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I am new to mil/mil, but I love it!!

 

[SurgicalPrecision]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

As long as your turrets match your reticle it doesn't really matter. I thought I would hate a mil/mil setup until I tried it. Now it's what I prefer.

 

[tstevens]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Either one is fine for me as long as the reticle matches. It is nice however that my ballistic calculator reads to .1 mils. It also give moa in tenths too but then I have to round up or down to the nearest 1/4.

 

[VKC]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I started out with MOA/MOA thinking that I wanted to stick with yards and inches and did not want to mess with mils. But after shooting for some time, I've converted all my scopes to mil/mil. As stated above, mil isn't metric or yards, and there is more consistency with mil scope turrets and reticles.

 

[PRKmachinist]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I've used MOA/MOA for many years, started using a PMII last year in MIL/MIL and think I've finally got a handle on it - now if I had to choose between the two I would go with a MIL/MIL.

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Interesting. I remember this poll came around a year or so ago. It was around 70/30 then as well. Very consistent.

 

[Guest]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

In the early days it was all about ranging,
Then came, a none mil reticle that ranged closer.

Then it was about knobs matching the ret.
Then came, matching knobs an ret's.

Then, it's what the military use's so it must be the best.
Then came, I want to be like the military, got's to have a mil/mil.

Then came mfgs who seen dollars from the tacticool crowd.
Then came the "Cool crowd".

Question is if your target ID book, gives target size in inchs (Ie 91/30's SVD's AK's, RPG's, PKM's ect.) why do you want to add a factor to the distance equation.

 

[Shooter45]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

Grew up using MOA but finally changed to MIL/MIL after reading so much. Very easy to learn and simple to use.

 

[1911GunNut]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

When I was a dumb noob I bought a MIL/MOA. That was crazy stupid. Later, I was still dumb but not a noob and switch to MOA/MOA. Now I have all MIL/MIL.

I can use MOA/MOA and guys I shoot with use MOA/MOA, but I find MIL/MIL makes more sense and is easier.

 

[para1505]

Re: POLL: What's Your Preference (Moa or Mil)

I do not know which one I like better but I am about redy to find out. I have been using a SS10x42HD which is mil/mil. I have purchased a used US Optics that I wil be receiving soon that is IPHY/IPHY.