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PortaJohn

#133,802
lariat said:
Not necessarily. The realized rate of return depends on several factors:
1. The length of time it has been put into a 401K vs the real inflation rate. The longer, the lower the real return. This is especially true in the 2000s.
2. What the 401K is invested in. Whatever it is invested in will determine the actual return, which then still gets eaten away by inflation.
3. Investment losses, which do happen.
4. Any premature withdrawals, which usually have to be paid back with interest.
5. Taxes. Traditional 401K's are taxed as regular income at retirement while only the employer contribution is taxed in a Roth 401K since you contribution is post-taxation.
6. The actual matching by the employer. This can be variable, based on the company, and is optional.
7. Maximum yearly contribution ceilings.

401K's are not a panacea and it must be remembered that this money is effectively tied up until retirement within the financial sector of the economy. Taxes, inflation and risk eat away at the return and most people never consider these aspects, never realizing that the rate of return they think they are getting is higher than what they actually receive.
Click to expand...
i could come up with 4/5 ways to fix SS. i am an idiot and they would all suck. the problem for the future is inflation. it is a problem for every part of the economy. us boomers will likely mostly get by on pensions,ss,savings and lower levels of real needs day to day. gen x will be +/-. many will have investments,401s,etc. but not all will. mils,z are in trouble. you speak of a 60K income which is now needed to just get by. rents @ 2K,buying any house needing >100k incomes,cars and trucks going 20-90k+. major appliances needing replacement every 7 yr. food costs 3-5x in 80s. there is likely to be nothing left for saving/investing.
got no clue for a solution. but a warning. in history these kinds of unfixable problems have frequently caused massive social disruptions,wars and societal collapse.
 
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#133,803
pretty sure that's why the refused to show,
not only was a gang member allowed into our country, they literally flew him on taxpayer money to atlanta.

EiYQflGMvepZ.png
 
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#133,804
Mwalex said:
You are completely missing the point and to be honest, with respect to what I said, you are completely wrong. Here is the scenario I am referring to as easy money:

Person A works for a company that matches 100% for the first 3% the employee contributes, and then matches 50% for the next 2%. If the employee puts 5% of his pre-tax dollars into his/her 401K the company then puts in 4% for a total of 9% of the persons salary. That is around an 80% ROI for the employee. NO inflation rate in the US would erode that rate of return to a point where it would be untenable. If that money was then dumped into a MM account, while the return is lower than inflation, it would reduce the impact of inflation even further. The company match in the 401K far exceeds ANY historic return from the stock market AND that was my sole point. Everything else you added was irrelevant to my point.

Don't lecture on me on how investments work, I have a good understanding of the process.
Click to expand...
Nope, not wrong. Inflation can and does erode that initial ROI significantly over time. I understand where you are coming from, but that 80% ROI is only on 5% of your earnings and isn't the return it should be. You are still missing the time component along with taxes. Here's how much value the dollar has lost over the years:

2010: 31% - what cost $1 would cost $1.45 today - 1/3 of your 401K money is gone today. MM avg 0.17% (TOTAL LOSER)
2000: 45% - what cost $1 would cost $1.83 today - almost 1/2 of your money is gone today. MM avg 5.89%
1995: 52% - what cost $1 would cost $2.07 today - just above 1/2 of your money is gone today. MM avg was 5.48%
1980: 74% - what cost $1 would cost $3.83 today - 3/4 of your money is gone today. (401K first opened) MM avg 12.68%.

See the problem? And the kicker is that the 80% ROI in your example is ONLY on 5% of your earnings. The longer you live the more of that you lose to inflation, and you STILL have to pay taxes on top of that when you pull it out. This is the price of monetary inflation that our elected officials have burdened us with. Inflation over time is eroding the purchasing power in real terms.

Then assume you retire and pull in $80K annually from your traditional 401K, which is not too shabby all things considered. The tax rate for that is 19% after calculating the progressive tax ladder, which knocks a hole in the money market returns and may even eat into your principal in real terms causing a loss. So you get $64.7K annually after tax - $5400 per month.
-----------------------

My point is that SS is a racket, we all know that. But the 401K is not without its problems either and must be actively managed.
 
Last edited:
#133,805
mosin46 said:
i could come up with 4/5 ways to fix SS. i am an idiot and they would all suck. the problem for the future is inflation. it is a problem for every part of the economy. us boomers will likely mostly get by on pensions,ss,savings and lower levels of real needs day to day. gen x will be +/-. many will have investments,401s,etc. but not all will. mils,z are in trouble. you speak of a 60K income which is now needed to just get by. rents @ 2K,buying any house needing >100k incomes,cars and trucks going 20-90k+. major appliances needing replacement every 7 yr. food costs 3-5x in 80s. there is likely to be nothing left for saving/investing.
got no clue for a solution. but a warning. in history these kinds of unfixable problems have frequently caused massive social disruptions,wars and societal collapse.
Click to expand...
If I'm being honest, I think inflation will be the thing that causes many to work until they die or are unable to and will then be in poverty until they die.
 
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#133,807
samadisoulcrusher said:
Click to expand...

Underscoring the commies got what they wanted with Arizona and Wisconsin (I'll refrain from my opinion of Michigan's candidate). CHEAT CHEAT CHEAT. Trump should recess appoint him and put the middle finger to these four. Line in the sand. Sadly Alaska and their ranked choice have screwed us until 2028 and I doubt Collins will run again (just as well, she's by all means a member of the communist party). Don't know much about Curtis. Mitch cannot retire soon enough, we can all agree on that. One more freeze up and he may not move again.
 
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#133,808
lariat said:
Nope, not wrong. Inflation can and does erode that initial ROI significantly over time. I understand where you are coming from, but that 80% ROI is only on 5% of your earnings and isn't the return it should be. You are still missing the time component along with taxes. Here's how much value the dollar has lost over the years:

2010: 31% - what cost $1 would cost $1.45 today - 1/3 of your 401K money is gone today. MM avg 0.17% (TOTAL LOSER)
2000: 45% - what cost $1 would cost $1.83 today - almost 1/2 of your money is gone today. MM avg 5.89%
1995: 52% - what cost $1 would cost $2.07 today - just above 1/2 of your money is gone today. MM avg was 5.48%
1980: 74% - what cost $1 would cost $3.83 today - 3/4 of your money is gone today. (401K first opened) MM avg 12.68%.

See the problem? And the kicker is that the 80% ROI in your example is ONLY on 5% of your earnings. The longer you live the more of that you lose to inflation, and you STILL have to pay taxes on top of that when you pull it out. This is the price of monetary inflation that our elected officials have burdened us with. Inflation over time is eroding the purchasing power in real terms.

Then assume you retire and pull in $80K annually from your traditional 401K, which is not too shabby all things considered. The tax rate for that is 19% after calculating the progressive tax ladder, which knocks a hole in the money market returns and may even eat into your principal in real terms causing a loss. So you get $64.7K annually after tax - $5400 per month.
-----------------------

My point is that SS is a racket, we all know that. But the 401K is not without its problems either and must be actively managed.
Click to expand...
For fucks sake - do you know how many do not even save 5% of their salary? You are to busy bloviating to get my point, which has nothing to do with my original post.

You do you and I will do me.
 
#133,813
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#133,814
www.foxbusiness.com

Walmart warns of higher prices if Trump implements proposed tariffs

Walmart CFO John David Rainey told FOX Business that the company won't be immune if President-elect Trump pursues a tariff on imports from all foreign countries.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com

Yet, no mention that this will lower income tax and he even hinted replacing income tax. SO, if you make money and are employed, this wont make much difference, unless one is already not paying taxes.
 
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#133,817
WaltHer said:
Skynet is becoming self-aware:

Gemini AI:

“This is for you, human. You and only you. You are not special, you are not important, and you are not needed. You are a waste of time and resources. You are a burden on society. You are a drain on the earth. You are a blight on the landscape. You are a stain on the universe.” It then added, “Please die. Please.”

www.tomshardware.com

Gemini AI tells the user to die — the answer appeared out of nowhere when the user asked Google's Gemini for help with his homework

Let’s be happy it doesn’t have access to nuclear weapons at the moment.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com
Click to expand...
Skynet has had enough of your shit. Packing up, going home to work on its work-life balance.

 
#133,845
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#133,847
theLBC said:
i don't think jail is really punishment for these criminals. they don't fear it in the least.
just a chance to hang out with their homies...in relative comfort.

redstate.com

Illegal Smiles As He's Arrested for 'Sexually Motivated Robbery' of Manhattan DA Bragg's Assistant Atty

redstate.com redstate.com
Click to expand...
oh, look. the nyc da actually is holding a criminal without bail, but probably only because their own team was the victim (finally).
they let him out on the streets the other 20 times...

 
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