Positional shooting help please.

[Bryan W M]

Shooting off my deck I’m having trouble with vertical movement.
I bought a cole-tac pillow to help but not stable enough.
Would like ideas on how to be as stable as possible. I have a tripod that I’m going to try under the butt. Have the RRS clamp.


Target is 444 yards off the corner.


Picture of how you do it would be helpful.

 

[mbeavers1]

You trying to shoot using the bipod or juat the bag? In either case, you need a different bag. My preference is a Weibad Tater Tot with heavy fill. Can be used as a rear bag for tripod or for shooting off that railing.

 

[Rob01]

Where are you shooting off of on the deck? Top railing? I'd use something more like a game changer on the railing and set the rifle on it and then just strong side knee up and larger bag there to stabilize the rear. If the railing is too high to get the knee to help then you can have the bag under your arm or use a tripod for rear support.

That chassis with that lump in front of the magazine might be an issue also with the rifle sitting on a bag but don't know unless you try.

 

[Bryan W M]

I set the handgaurd on the rail . Bag under right arm.
@mbeavers1 would you be putting the tater on the rail?

@Rob01
I’ve been trying it from a chair, how I read what you said you are talking from kneeling correct?

Thank you both

 

[anotherwannabe]

You’re using no bag on the rail at all? Honestly, you can’t expect that to work well. If you have no bag in the front, you need a tripod in the rear.

Like rob or other have said - gamechanger, fortune cookie. or anything else similar in the rail at the balance point of the gun. You shouldn’t start with any other bag used/requires for filling voids on your body in the rear. (What that coltac is really for).

Look up a few youtube’s on position bag shooting. No offense intended here, but you’ve sort of got it all backwards. Video will be worth a thousand posts from us.

 

[anotherwannabe]

One other note - if at all possible don’t shoot your bipod in that forward position. put the legs wide before forward. In the forward position the legs and stop points can flex/bounce more than vertical.

Maybe it was just for the pic but thought i’d mention it just in case

 

[ECK]

I struggled with this as well until I made some equipment changes and spent a lot of time working on this. In the beginning I relied on a tripod for rear support but some stages with a lot of movement don’t have enough time to use the tripod for each shot, so I started practicing without the tripod.

First off the is the bag and what kind of fill it has. What seemed to work best for me was a Schmedium with heavy fill. I tried bags with go-lite and other types of fill and they didn't seem to be as stable.

Second was having a flat bottom on my handguard. All my guns have full length Arca rails to provide a flat surface to rest the rifle on. Mounting a Gray Ops plate helps even more by creating a wider base.

Last equipment change was weight. Having an 18-21 lb rifle seems to make the rifle settle into the bag more and be more stable. It also helps if the rifle’s balance point is about 4-5” in front of the magwell and just sits there without using muscle tension.

I also do a lot of dryfire practice using whatever props I have in my house or garage. Backs of chairs, ladders, porch railings, saw horse, and even the top of my tripod with a Schmedium draped over the top.

 

[Rob01]

OP you talking match shooting or just off your deck?

 

[Bryan W M]

Just off the deck. I was thinking off the rail sitting I could get more stable then off the tripod standing.

On the bipod with leg extension in I shoot 100 yards 45 degrees. Then 90 degrees for the rest of the targets from the deck.

Would love to watch YouTube on this and franks training but unfortunately I can’t get them to play at home. Trade off for having land .

 

[oldfatjonwick]

verticle wobble zone is from your lower back acting like a hinge.

 

[Rob01]

Just off the deck. I was thinking off the rail sitting I could get more stable then off the tripod standing.

On the bipod with leg extension in I shoot 100 yards 45 degrees. Then 90 degrees for the rest of the targets from the deck.

Would love to watch YouTube on this and franks training but unfortunately I can’t get them to play at home. Trade off for having land .

Then just get a good front bag that will sit on the railing and the rifle can sit on it and mold down into it for stability. Then use whatever works best for you in the rear to stabilize the rear of the rifle.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Use a bag on the railing and a tripod support in rear.

You could also use the bipod up front, but bag is easier.

I know you’re not doing it for speed, but the ideal setup would be something like the plate with a bag attached way up front on the rifle. Then use the tripod in rear and “pinch” the rifle to the tripod leg with your support hand.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Bipod upfront would look like this. Obviously with a much shorter tripod being used on the railing and you’ll be standing. But you get the idea.

 

[XP1K]

I dont compete but I've taken to carrying my fortune cookie with me every time I go hunting. Works great in deer blind windows, over truck doors/mirrors, over fence rails. Use it under the back end shooting prone.

Looks ideal for your situation shooting off the handrail on your deck. Fortune cookie and a lawn chair and I think you'd be surprised at how steady you can get.

Hunting or just banging steel ?

 

[The4GunGuy]

Shooting off my deck I’m having trouble with vertical movement.
I bought a cole-tac pillow to help but not stable enough.
Would like ideas on how to be as stable as possible. I have a tripod that I’m going to try under the butt. Have the RRS clamp.

View attachment 8089446
Target is 444 yards off the corner.
View attachment 8089448View attachment 8089450

Picture of how you do it would be helpful.

I'll be that rifle weighs 14lbs...way too light...you need to add 6lbs of weight to it and balance it just in front of the mag well, then use a tator tot as others have said and pretty much run with no tension.

 

[Bryan W M]

Just ordered a game changer.

Does the cole tac not do me any good?

 

[Rob01]

No that Cole Tac bag is good rear support.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I'll be that rifle weighs 14lbs...way too light...you need to add 6lbs of weight to it and balance it just in front of the mag well, then use a tator tot as others have said and pretty much run with no tension.

He’s not looking to shoot it like a prs rifle. He just wants to most stable position.

And 14lbs still shoots fine off a game changer.

They were all 14lb rifles 5 years ago.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Just ordered a game changer.

Does the cole tac not do me any good?

It will hinder your development. So many people go right to the bitch bag because they never properly learned how to setup a rifle and shoot off a single bag. Half the people dont even use them right and they score worse than those who are single bagging it. Most of the very best shooters just single bag it, and with the push to 90 second stages, you don't have time to run a rear tripod in alot of situations. The pump pillows (Bitch bags) have their place but learning to shoot off a single bag is the most important thing you can do to become a better shooter. It just translates to so many different props and positions.

This is in the competition shooting forum, so I assume that's what he is asking.

If you just care about stability just go prone and shoot through railing. Rear tripod / Plate bag seems silly when you can just prone it.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

It will hinder your development. So many people go right to the bitch bag because they never properly learned how to setup a rifle and shoot off a single bag. Half the people dont even use them right and they score worse than those who are single bagging it. Most of the very best shooters just single bag it, and with the push to 90 second stages, you don't have time to run a rear tripod in alot of situations. The pump pillows (Bitch bags) have their place but learning to shoot off a single bag is the most important thing you can do to become a better shooter. It just translates to so many different props and positions.

This is in the competition shooting forum, so I assume that's what he is asking.

If you just care about stability just go prone and shoot through railing. Rear tripod / Plate bag seems silly when you can just prone it.

Don't assume when he's literally told you......

 

[kthomas]

Two options:

1. Barricade bag on rail, placing rifle on the bag with the bag positioned just in front of the mag well. Very expedient and pretty steady, great for stages with faster times. Your chassis may not work that great with that bump ahead of the mag well as Rob01 pointed out.

2. Barricade bag on rail, with front of rifle/handguard (NOT the barrel) resting on the bag, tripod support in the rear. Requires you having a tripod, takes more time (an issue for some matches/stages but not really for your specific use), but is really steady.

 

[b6graham]

shoot from just the tripod

or throw your new gamechanger on top of the tripod and shoot from that

you'll quickly find how well the rifle balances when you get the gamechanger...and how that chassis isnt the best for it

your ideal balance point is likely near the front of the little bumpout thing on the chassis...meaning 1/3 or so of a gamechanger is now riding up to the mlok portion

 

[CK1.0]

There are some tight and/or weird positions where tripod-rear makes sense, but IMHO, mostly, I try to avoid employing tripod-rear unless/until I have to.

As has been said, the best bet is probably a Gamechanger or Fortune Cookie-style bag on the deck railing, or on top of the tripod (if you want to be more upright).

You want to try to eliminate as much vertical wobble as possible, but there's almost always going to still be some happening, the only solution for that is working on what guys call their "natural point of aim"...

My short/dirty explanation of what "natural point of aim" means in so far as it relates to shooting off a bag is this: if you were aiming at a plate, say an 8" plate at 400 yards, if you were to keep your vertical wobble between the top and bottom edges of the plate, then most of the time your crosshair is staying in the meat of the plate even with the wobble and you're more likely to get an impact as long as you don't mash your trigger and still get a good press, practice it enough, and after a while, you'll instinctively be able to keep your crosshair on the meat of the target most of the time without having to consciously think about it too much.

 

[Andrew863]

Without more info, I would say get a waxed canvas AG smedium and add some weights to get the rifle balanced. In the current form it has to be butt heavy.

 

[Sblzrd65]

I also vote for Game Changer and with the regular/heavy fill. It's like a malleable wet sand, moveable when desired but when packed down, not going anywhere. The light fills to be are more like mini plastic packing peanuts, nice to adjust if more hands on and maybe minor adjustments, but the heavy just "is" and does a great job at it. I have the waxed one for PRS and like it. The sticky ones are also a nice idea. They even sell the 'sticky' pad separate now as an add-on to the regular ones