Possible Van Orden M70 Target rifle

[Miller Machines]

My first post. I recently acquired this 1956 Model 70 Target rifle and would like to know if anyone has serial number information other than what's listed in Chandler's books? The rifle came with an Evaluators Limited score book and range card. The range card looks like it may match this rifle. The score book, with the name E.A. Frye is dated 1954, but has this rifle listed in it several times from 1957-59. It also has notes on a .300 H&H Bull gun. I did find in the first Death From Afar that E.A. Frye purchased rifle number 254524 on 12/53, so I'm assuming this score book originally came with that rifle. I'd also like to figure out who E.A Frye was? I'm assuming he may have been on a USMC shooting team looking at the matches he has noted?

 

[roostercogburn98]

@cplnorton maybe

 

[camocorvette]

Yeah @cplnorton is the knowledgeable one on this.

 

[RTH1800]

It’s in the Death From afar books. Cannot recall which volumes.

 

[cplnorton]

In Ancestry.com they have the Marine Rosters, I looked up the E.R. Frye name and I do not see a Marine by that name. They have the rosters till 1958 in there, so if he was a Marine, I would expect his name to be in there.

Now when I look at that Frye name on the book, it is by a Copyright logo. So I think that might be more the person who made the book and not the name of the individual shooter.

The Marines use of the model 70 compared to what I see in sniper books is a little different. For instance in the books they state the Marines only had 373 M70's and they were purchased in 1942. That 373 number is correct, but only for one shipment. There was a 2nd order purchased in 1942 for the Marines, and that is not in the books. That is also not the last M70's the Marines would receive.

By 1952 I see counts of 2500+ M70's in the Marines. Now I should note I have not seen any evidence of any M70's in the Marines (by serial number/traits) that are actually past the 1942 date, which is the 50,000 serial range.

My hunch is the 2500+ count they have, is because they likely received M70's off the Army. The Army placed M70 orders in 1942 thru the Springfield Ordnance District. My hunch is after the war, the Marines took some of the Army Excess. That would explain why only those 41,000 to 50,000 serial ranges show up because both the Army and Marine orders were all in 1942.

But with all of this I do think there is likely still info missing. All I see is in 1952 is they are talking about not releasing anymore M70's for Marines to private purchase and they start to order the Medium Heavyweight barrels off WRA to rebuild them for the Marine Rifle teams. They ordered a large amount of barrels.

The serials on the known Van Ordens show up in Chandlers book. I think Volumes 1 and 2. I can check the serials if you haven't checked them already. Let me know if you need me too. I think most know of the serials in Volume 1, but I don't think many know there are more serials in Volume 2 I believe.

The Matches you show in your shooting book, were famous matches back then that I see named a lot in the NRA publications of the day. Without looking up the requirements to enter each match listed on your book, I think it's likely anyone was allowed to enter the competitions. Whether they were Marine, Army, or Civilian.

So, my first thought as much as I hate to say it, I think it's likely the rifle was used by another branch or civilian competition shooter. I do not think it's likely it was Marine. Unless an individual Marine private purchased it.

My recommendations would be this. Research the requirements for shooters to enter the shooting competitions listed in your book. See if any state only Marines could enter. I don't think this is likely, but this is what I would do if I was you. Because if only Marines could enter the competitions, then that is a great lead.

2) Check volume 1 and also 2 of Chandlers books for your serial. If my memory is not mistaken, I do remember seeing serials close to this in Volume 2. If you haven't checked this out already let me know and I will check for you.

3) If nothing comes from the serial lists, I might reach out to Dan Ross. I know at one time he had some serial lists as well. But I believe they are duplicates to what is in Chandler's book. But I don't know that for a fact.

I will be the first to admit I do not study the Van Orden m70's much. So I am probably not the best person for this. I do study Marine M70's, but as much Connection as Van Orden had to the Marines, I don't really see much connection between his rifles and the Marines. At least past private purchase or very, very limited numbers.

I think the Marines did order some loose parts of Evaluators, but that is another discussion.

I know I do see purchases by the Army of Van Orden rifles, and the Army was also buying M70 target rifles off WRA in the mid to late 1950's.

Pretty much any connections I have found so far between the 1950's dated M70's and any branch of the military, always seem to end up being an Army order.

I hope this helps and if you have any questions please ask.

 

[Random Guy]

I did find in the first Death From Afar that E.A. Frye purchased rifle number 254524 on 12/53, so I'm assuming this score book originally came with that rifle. I'd also like to figure out who E.A Frye was? I'm assuming he may have been on a USMC shooting team looking at the matches he has noted?

Nice looking rifle. I like that patina. You are likely already aware, but anyhow, per DFA, volume 1 pages 41-42.
S/N 254524 was sold in 12/53 to E.A. Fyre in Toledo, Ohio. My guess he was a civilian, as sales to military personnel went to various military bases/Forts.
S/N 374530 does not show up in the list of serial numbers. There is a gap b/t 364xxx (March 1956 and March 1957 until s/n 411xxx in Feb 1959.)

What is curious is that E.A. Fyre appears to be the publisher of that booklet, and it's quite a coincidence that the same initials were for that 1953 purchase of an M70. Whoever that was, they were apparently a very serious high-power shooter back then, based on the log-book.

Note: Quantico has been hosting high-power matches since the 1950s, and the fact that a shooter competed in a match there doesn't necessarily mean they were a Marine or on the USMC Shooting Team. It just means that is where the High-power match was held. (The Quantico Shooting Cub hosts matches today, and civilians compete in those matches).

As for the rifle, the only way to gain more info from a Van Orden is the "build card" for a certain rifle. Sometimes they were re-barreled or worked on, and Van Orden would have an index card regarding that serial number re who it was sold to, and any work performed. I have seen this with one Van Orden rifle, but no idea what happened to those original index card records.

Here's the only build card I have seen for a Van Orden. It was an M70 rifle sold in 1953 to an Army solider at Ft. Eustis, VA, and was subsequently re-barreled in June 1954 and it looks like it might have been shipped to Baltimore, MD . This was most likely a private purchase. Unless someone has the Van Orden build card for 374530, I don't think there is much more that can be found...