Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

QuietShootr

QuietShootr

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 5, 2003
446
84
#1
I think it would be useful data to have a general idea of where the gamut of rifles run as far as throat length.

Post your rifle make/model and any pertinent information (custom barrel/chamber/etc) and COAL touching the lands with any bullet you've measured. I'll start:

FN SPR A3G stock barrel
175GR SMK COAL - 2.900"
178gr AMAX COAL - 2.900"

I'll update this post as I test more bullets.
 
#2
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

I have a Remington 700 SPS-V .308 with 2,439 rounds down the tube.

It takes a 168 grain A-MAX an OAL of 2.960 to touch the lands.

I've heard that some of the Remington rifles are known to have longer throats. Ive thought about getting the chamber cut back but I think I will just wait until I get it re-barreled in 6mm SLR
 
#4
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

I just checked my book and a COAL of 2.860 and 2.870 gives me the best groups with 168 grain AMAX bullets.

It seems so long.. But I think that when I first bought my rifle new in 08' I shot it too fast at times, which didn't help for throat erosion. Now that I'm a little wiser ( thanks hide ) I don't shoot so fast.
 
#6
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

Savage 10FP 24"factory Varmint barrel 10 twist.
168 A-Max 2.832 (shoots good jammed to .018 off)
165 NBT 2.830 (shoots best .010 off lands)
168 Silver Tip 2.860 (shoots best just in the lands)
175 SMK 2.799 (Only shot 15 so far .018 off lands with good results)
 
#7
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

"I think it would be useful data to have a general idea of where the gamut of rifles run as far as throat length."

I disagree.

You're fairly new to this stuff aren't you?
 
#8
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"I think it would be useful data to have a general idea of where the gamut of rifles run as far as throat length."

I disagree.

You're fairly new to this stuff aren't you?
</div></div>

You're fairly new to this Internet stuff, aren't you? The way this works is, when you see a thread to which you don't have something constructive to add, you either don't click on it, or you use the Back button and go somewhere else.
 
#9
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuietShootr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it would be useful data to have a general idea of where the gamut of rifles run as far as throat length.

Post your rifle make/model and any pertinent information (custom barrel/chamber/etc) and COAL touching the lands with any bullet you've measured. I'll start:

FN SPR A3G stock barrel
175GR SMK COAL - 2.900"
178gr AMAX COAL - 2.900"

I'll update this post as I test more bullets. </div></div>

Well, with my 10FP LE2b when it was new, 2.840"-2.850" was the norm for many of the common bullets like the 168 and 175 SMKs.

Now, ~7 years later, with 3300 rounds down the factory 26" tube, I'm seating out to an internal/blind mag length of ~2.880", so I've erroded my throat a fair bit depending on bullet selection...to the tune of .035"-.045", FWIW.

It still shoots pretty much nuts on with the 155 Scenars up to the 190 SMKs, but this barrel took about ~700 rounds to dial itself in, as a caveat.

BTW, have you ever hung out at the AR15.com chat?

There was a QuietShootr that was a frequent chatter there, a few years back. From Indiana I think it was.

Chris
 
#11
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

Rifle: Savage 10FP, 24" factory heavy barrel, 1-10 twist, crowned muzzle, 2.901" COAL to touch lands with 178 gr AMAX.

Loads in mil 308 brass (TOAA 08 - LC 08 equivelent)
Trimmed to 2.005"

Bullet: Hornady 178gr A-Max

COAL: 2.835 in. (best seating for rifle and accuracy)
 
#13
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

"when you see a thread to which you don't have something constructive to add, you either don't click on it, or you use the Back button and go somewhere else."

When I see something that suggests the poster is trying hard but is missing a critical point I think trying to get him to think passed where he is, or where he should be, is quite helpful.
 
#14
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"when you see a thread to which you don't have something constructive to add, you either don't click on it, or you use the Back button and go somewhere else."

When I see something that suggests the poster is trying hard but is missing a critical point I think trying to get him to think passed where he is, or where he should be, is quite helpful.
</div></div>

Okay, then. What is the critical point you think I'm missing?

What I wanted to know is what the crowd's COAL to the lands is, and that's all. It's a little presumptuous to think you know something about my knowledge level or experience based on the fact that I asked that question, because you don't know why I asked it or what I'm doing with the information.
 
#15
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

Rifle: Remington 700 308 it is a gap rebarrel not sure the brand of barrel, it's a m40 contour shoots really well at 2.799. I am pretty sure the lands are at 2.801 or so.

Ray
 
#16
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

I have a Remmy 700 Custom, action was trued up and lugs lapped, barrel is a bartlein cut to 22" with 1deg land cut. I just found my perfect load and am shooting 5 shot groups with my worst being .091

180gr nosler ballistic tip (hunter)
43.5gr of varget
oal bullet length 2.804"

it is phenomenal, i cant quit smiling everytime i shoot this load.
 
#17
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

I just think its kind of interesting what everone else's OAL is on the rounds they load. SAAMI .308 specs are 2.800 for OAL, I know my chanber was no where near that when I bought my rifle. Understandably thou.. Its not a match rifle with a match chamber. To me it's not really any useful info that I can use, but I enjoy seeing what everyone else is using.
 
#18
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

"Okay, then. What is the critical point you think I'm missing?"

Okay.

The wide range of variation in chambers and freebore, even in rifles from the same maker. And OAL/jump is only a small part of developing an optimum load. And any individual rifle's preference for bullet jump is far too great to quanitify for any meaningful deductions based on that data. And the max length to the lands can easily be determined for any individual rifle and bullet we may encounter anyway, so my buddy's rifle's OAL isn't of any valid interest to anyone but him.

No insult was intended but no matter how large a table of data you may produce it will be of no help in load development for any given rifle. Experienced reloaders know that even tho some folks may find it interesting to contemplate.

------------------------------------------------------------

nckrsamford: "I just found my perfect load and am shooting 5 shot groups with my worst being .091...i cant quit smiling everytime i shoot this load."

We can all appreciate that!

You should enter every Bench Rest match you can get to, you'd easily wipe out the competition. Many big name BR matches are won by people shooting custom made actions and barrels and stocks costing upwards from $3K, using hand made competition bullets getting average groups as large .150", or more. You can easily beat them with your worst .091" groups.
 
#19
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

My 700:

Bullet To the lands
178 AMAX 2.951
185 Lapua 2.925
208 AMAX 3.046
I don't know how helpful this would be for anybody else, but here it is for the sake of data.
 
#20
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

Like you said i am not saying all guns are the same, because all guns are different. The production process of worn out bits and taps make each gun different as a finger print, and yes that is why i had my rifle blueprinted and a match grade barrel chambered to it. i know there is some ragging going on about the .091 but thats the best i could measure the worst group. i am not a match shooter but i do go to the range every day and i also shoot between 100 and 200 rounds a day. that being said i hope all of you guys find your many perfect loads for your guns and get as much satisfaction out of going to the range as i do!
 
#21
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

How about 2.94 COAL and 2.174 base to ogive with Berger 175 Tac/OTM in an FN SPR A2. This measurement was established at 14-1500 rounds.
 
#22
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Okay, then. What is the critical point you think I'm missing?"

Okay.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The wide range of variation in chambers and freebore, even in rifles from the same maker. And OAL/jump is only a small part of developing an optimum load. And any individual rifle's preference for bullet jump is far too great to quanitify for any meaningful deductions based on that data.</span> And the max length to the lands can easily be determined for any individual rifle and bullet we may encounter anyway, so my buddy's rifle's OAL isn't of any valid interest to anyone but him.

No insult was intended but no matter how large a table of data you may produce it will be of no help in load development for any given rifle. Experienced reloaders know that even tho some folks may find it interesting to contemplate.

------------------------------------------------------------

</div></div>

I've been handloading since 1983, and my current mentor is someone who doesn't want his name spread all over the interwebs but if you look in the top 20 F-Class shooters, nationally, over the last ten years you'd see his name a lot.

I asked the question because I'm curious about the variation in COALs that people are getting and what the average jump they're using for their best load is. I know that won't correlate to my gun with any predictability. Sometimes you don't know the right question to ask until you ask about several things first. No offense to your no offense intended, but you came off very condescending and 'stfu n00b!'. I occasionally ask questions just to see what other people's experiences are, it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm asking about.

So. Would you like to discuss your experience in handloading technique for creating accurate, safe loads in the 20mmx138B Solothurn? No?

Well, as soon as you scrape up the cash for one, I'll be right here to help talk you through it.

(THAT'S how you do condescending, btw.)
 
#23
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nckrsamford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like you said i am not saying all guns are the same, because all guns are different. The production process of worn out bits and taps make each gun different as a finger print, and yes that is why i had my rifle blueprinted and a match grade barrel chambered to it. i know there is some ragging going on about the .091 but thats the best i could measure the worst group. i am not a match shooter but i do go to the range every day and i also shoot between 100 and 200 rounds a day. that being said i hope all of you guys find your many perfect loads for your guns and get as much satisfaction out of going to the range as i do! </div></div>

No offense, but I'm trying to get what you're saying for a second time.

Your worst group measured for 5 (?) shots at 100 yds (?) at .091"? That's 91/1000ths of an inch, or, for all practical purposes--a single hole, am I getting this right?

What rifle, cartridge and loadings are you using, because that has to be some sort of 'world record,' or greatest rifle on the planet, as far as I can tell?

Chris
 
#24
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

"Well, as soon as you scrape up the cash for one, I'll be right here to help talk you through it."

I'm sure you could be very helpful but I do know how to develop a load, including how to measure to the lands so I will muddle on without being concerned about how other people do things in rifles I don't own.
 
#25
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

I just measured my chamber to be 2.875 to the lands. This is the first time I have ever done this. I did it a good half dozen times, always coming up with the 2.875 measurement.

Rifle is an FN SPR A1A with SMK 168.
 
#26
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

Bolt face to lands measures 2.255 and COAL measures 3.195. Rem700 with Shilens SS factory replacement and Berger 175 vld.

I think the military has stats for this. Most accurate Average of Averages is .008 - .015 jump. Don't know what calibers, weapons and/or bullets were used to collect these stats nor do I know where to locate the docs, but that's what I have heard...
 
#27
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

Lol @ .091" group, maybe .91" I'd travel to witness that miracle. Anyway using Nosler 175 CC's my COAL is 2.964 Remington 700sps varmint 26" barrel. Load .025 off lands w/43.5 gr varget CCI-200 PRIMERS
 
#28
Re: Post your .308 COAL to lands... Data points

I often do this kind of research just to find out what data other people have found. I used this sort of inquiry to find out a good place to for a starting place in load development.

I looked at the load threads for people using similar components, and where they got the best accuracy with the components I was using. I still had to do load development, however, the final load came in only .3 grains different than the average of everyone else's load.

I started my load development 2 grains below the average at .5 grain increments, and went up to the max listed load. I ended up breaking down a number of test loads as accuracy decreased when I went close to max.

What got me started toward that load was a thread like this...I'm not hijacking the thread, just saying I understand at least one reason why someone might want to begin collecting and examining data.
 
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