Advanced Marksmanship Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

[jr81452]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

one of the great lies of rifle shooting: shooting from a bench is easier than prone shooting.

an example:

target shot on 12/13
from a bench, for speed (at least, i was under the impression that QueeQueg was racing me )
bipod monopod combo at 100 yards, loading single shot, under 2 minutes

i had a better (barely) target that i took my time on. but i think the worst target of the day is a better representation of my mad skillz. besides, i seem to have misplaced it.

i guess i suck as a benchrester

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

The race of which you speak became an obvious debacle for me at shot #2 and I became so lost in concentration that I tuned out all extraneous, peripheral distraction.

No mention of Queequeg schlepping your target for you while you inhaled performance enhancing nicotine fumes!!!

BTW JR, I picked up some new Winnie brass and lovingly detailed the flash hole, sizing, chamforing and will report on whether it makes the slightest fucking difference! I also bumped my sizing die down another 1/8 turn and the completed loads are chambering easier.

See you next time.

 

[Vin]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jr81452</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tips:
<span style="font-weight: bold">get warmer clothes</span>
don't shoot the wind with a .22
draw your circles farther apart (can't tell a hit from a miss that close)
get better ammo
keep shooting

happy holidays

</div></div>

I guess thats easy to say when you live in Florida. Come up to Canada and spend a day at the range in -40, it hurts.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

In Florida, for many people, +40 hurts!

 

[jr81452]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

i shoot in two harbors MN for a couple weeks each winter. trust me, i know how to shoot in the negative digits just fine. try heading out in that weather when just the day before it was 75 and sunny

nothing drains the focus of a shooter like -20 with a 30mph wind coming off lake superior, while laying in 4-6 feet of white powder for 4 hours. they sell a lot of those chemical heat packs for a reason.

 

[Wlfdg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jr81452</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> try heading out in that weather when just the day before it was 75 and sunny

</div></div> That's just wrong.Nothing quite like a numb trigger finger.

 

[jr81452]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

lol. that's what happens when you go from florida to the frigid north by plane. for the record, i shoot with heated gloves when i'm up north.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

im not sure if posting this target is against the rules of this forum but i could not help myself. this was atleast the 15th atempt on one of these targets and i finally got a 100.

for those of u that have never shot at one of these, the little one is smaller than the width of the cross hair at 100

 

[JRose]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Tag for work tomorrow!

 

[richardj]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wlfdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spring here, as you would consider it, doesn't come 'til late June, early July. What fun would that be?</div></div>

... and you're still better-off than living in NJ!

Here's my effort with my .308 rig..

RJ

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Very Nice RJ.

Happy new year to you!

 

[Wlfdg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Nice shooting RJ! I know I'm better off than living Jersey. I'm originally from the tri-state area. Don't even go back to visit.

Happy New Year to you as well!

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

I modified the Practical Target for some of you, plus so I can use it on the range training... but the individual dots are about 3/4", a bit bigger than the original, plus you have 5 1" dots at the bottom, where you can put your 5 shot groups in.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Lowlight, what would we use this for. If the half Inch Dot is a challenge, why make them bigger? It looks like your
Trying to make it easy on the newbies.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Man those dots are HUGE! I shoot 4mm red dots on a 1" grid for 100M. I'll have to drop my dope to 100M(-16 clicks or so) for some practice this weekend. See what works better, the PSS or the GAP AI. The load is for the PSS and it runs 2700fps and is dead on. The AI spits them out at 2900+ so accuracy may be off a wee bit with the extra speed. Testing will be done. Got some smily targets inbound to try to show off with

 

[Lindy]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Well, Lowlight can answer for himself.

However, my perspective is this: Sniper's Hide is the place for <span style="font-style: italic">the serious tactical marksman,</span> i.e., this is not a site for benchrest shooters.

A relevant standard for tactical shooting is to be able to shoot a rifle and load which will always shoot to a minute of angle or better.

I work hard to achieve the minute of angle standard all the way out to 1000 yards, which is a difficult standard indeed.

So, very small targets are not relevant to what we do.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

For me they work to focus on trigger squeeze, and breathing. I try to keep my targets to 1/2MOA out to my ranges 450M limit.
Man did say in the movie, Aim Small Miss Small

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Print it, its not as big as they look on the internets...

 

[Lindy]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Need some Federal agent dots...

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need some Federal agent dots...

</div></div>

Those are 3" Shoot N C's

 

[Lindy]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

 

[raptor69n]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

This is what its all about hahaha thanks for the tgts and thanks for the reading.
Nick

 

[jr81452]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

well this new target should be fun out to 200y (at least i'll be able to see the dots around my ret at 200). i also like the fact that there are now 25 dots (half a FA box of shells) as it comes out to an even box of ammo for 2 targets now (aw shit, there goes my OCD again)

 

[bobbye]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

One day I hope to be able to shoot better than my rifle will let me.
Thanks for the gets,
Bob

 

[Austan]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Today I had the wife come out to the range. She absolutley loved shooting this target. She wants me to find more "game" targets to shoot at. Having lunch afterwards she mentioned several times that playing "games" and shooting was alot of fun.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Looks like a fun target. What are the size of the dots?

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

So, if I can read between the lines, you're saying we should not piss off your wife either?

 

[MOS11C]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Print it, its not as big as they look on the internets... </div></div>

These are supposed to be 1/2" dots, right LowLight?

 

[garrett1107]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Tag

 

[Austan]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, if I can read between the lines, you're saying we should not piss off your wife either?

</div></div>

Na, just stand further away. She still isn't sure how the elevation turret works. Well, that is to say she dosent know what she needs to dial to get to different distances. Were all safe for now.lol

I gave it a go too.

 

[David's Sling]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Thanks Lowlight, printed one and am anxious to see what kind of results I get next time out.

 

[Reverse]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

My primary range is limited to 250 meters. I shoot clay birds, then shoot the pieces. Its fun and passes time.

 

[desertHK]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

LL
Do you have this target in a PDF file or something that we can download? Thanks

 

[Rafael]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

A link to the PDF is right there in the original post.

 

[donws2]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

I did not see this posted but for the guys that can't see the dots because your wires are a little to big. I learn from a BR shooter years ago to dail off center and put the dot in the VEE of the cross wires where one side and the bottom touches the wire. It's a very easy and repeatable hold that way. You can use any of the four quads but most use the on hand side so they can see if they are pulling as the wire will cover the dot if you do. Just a thought. I've used it in 22 BR matches as the dotis only 1/8 and at 50 yrds and every wire covers it. Donald

 

[flyboy]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Never heard of that, but sounds like a great Idea.

 

[shaneoc]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

I picked up a new savage 10FP 308 and shot black hills 168 gr bthp molys at the range today. This is the first time i have shot a centerfire in 23+ yrs.....here is my attempt...boy do i need practice.....as you can tell my first shots were @ the top and i finished @ the bottom dots....I like this and will shoot this target whenever i go to the range
Thanks
Shane

 

[Tribe]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Man, that last one must have felt good!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

The tangential offset sight picture method that aligns the reticle wires as tangents touching the edges of the circular aimpoint is an advanced technique which has been described on this site many times over the years, and it's never too soon to post it again.

It's what I use to refine my sight picture's final resolution, and for the average shooter, can be worth as much as a half MOA of accuracy improvement all by itself.

Greg

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Took my oldest daughter to the range today. Her first time on a center fire rifle. She had been firing away with her Savage Mark II at 50 yards and really progressing.

She took a turn on the Model 12, .223 and was a little intimidated at first. Not much recoil on a ten pound rifle but damn sure more than the .22 LR she'd been firing just before. Noisier too!

After a few familiarizing shots, including the pull at the far right upper target circle, she started to get the hang of it.

She began to follow through on the trigger pull, and started to get some respectable groups.

This load (Suggested by Greg Langelius):
52 grain Hornady HPBT Match
26 grains W748
GM205M primer
Mixed LC and PMC Mil. cases swaged and fired 1X.
2.220" coal

Since we wrapped it up with handguns , firing an older Model 19 (shot .38 specials, a little too soon for .357!) and an M&P 45, She was a very happy kid!

I don't think it will be as easy for me to get to the range solo in the future.

 

[MrMike]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

I think my little girl is getting a .22 bolt gun for christmas this year, she'll be 8.

I downloaded this target and think I'll try it out this weekend.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

My oldest girl and I got out to our range Friday and this time she took a crack at LowLights more recent Practical Tactical Target. These are from a bench and are her second time firing this rifle, or any centerfire rifle for that matter. Shouldn't be long now!

Firing my Savage Model 12 .223
69 gr SMK
24gr H4895
FGM205M
2.235" COAL
1x Fired, swaged LC cases

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

For the 52SMK, I also use 27.5gr W748 (Max) as a 300yd match load, with the 50gr Nos BT, 26.5gr of W748, and for the 55gr Nos BT, 25.4gr of W748. These loads worked well in the 700 VLS, and Savage 10FP.

If 26.0gr of Varget and the 52SMK don't shoot well in your standard AR, look for problems with the gun.

OT, I once looked in using 'Practical Tactical' as a company name, and found out it was already in use by a provider of handgun accessories.

Greg

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Greg,

I'll be working up to that load with 52 gr pills (27.5 gr W748).

This particular rifle seems to prefer 69 gr SMKs. I've had it about 5 years, but she has only gotten behind it twice in the last two weeks!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Right now, my 700VLS .223 seems to function best with 50gr Nos BT and 26.5gr of W748, no longer have a 10FP .223 to play with.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

I shot yesterday, 20 of 50 rounds well centered in the 3/4 inch MR-31 X ring using the 1/4 minute irons on my Service Rifle shooting prone with sling support. My load: 53 grain SMK over 25 grains of H335 stuffed in massaged Winchester brass primed with Win. primers. I was testing rear apertures. A .040 worked best, although the sight picture was extremely dark. A .046 got me a brighter sight picture, but the front post was a little too soft to get anywhere near the sort of bullet placement possible with the smaller aperture.

Here's the point, shooting groups has a place, it helps the shooter to understand and refine zeros.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Gave it a try with a new Volquartsen 17HMR, Hornady Varment Express 17gr V-Max. Prone, bipod, beanbag. Rats should be in some jeopardy in a few weeks in central Oregon.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

It's a challenging target! Nice. How does wind treat those 17 grain pills?

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

17 is pretty wind affected but not much noticible wind when I was out last. I guess there must have been an updraft on shots 4, 8 and 16 that I didn't notice. Or the Oregon vortex effect....

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Damn those vortices.