Advanced Marksmanship Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

[Nishgriff]

I shot the dot drill today. The 10 ring is 1". 100 Yards. Remington 700 .223 Varmint 1:12 with B&C Adjustable stock, Millett 4-16x50. Shot with Hornady Varmint Express 55grain vmax. Average is .44" from POA. The 'flyers' are when I let the rifle get hot, I think. When I let it cool down it's much more accurate. I will practice this more for sure.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Okay, so this really intrigued me and I thank Frank for challenging everyone to this very simple yet difficult drill:

<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/NeilGift/media/f0258523-66a8-4f3a-b258-c60041510d0a_zps7c88864c.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b636/NeilGift/f0258523-66a8-4f3a-b258-c60041510d0a_zps7c88864c.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo f0258523-66a8-4f3a-b258-c60041510d0a_zps7c88864c.jpg"/></a>

These 3/4 inch dots were shot today with zero wind, early morning at 100 meters. I am surprised at how amazing my new GA Precision Hospitaller is, which is an upgrade from a Remington 700P. Caliber is .308 Winchester, using Federal GMM 168 grain SMK, Schmidt and Bender 5-25x56mm PMII scope, MSR reticle. Using a Harris Bi-pod and no rear rest. Average spread was 0.301 inch, extreme was 0.470 inch and the smallest was 0.050 inch.

It was great really concentrating on each shot, seeing my breathing work, my pulse and my relaxation. I suspect with further practice, these can improve. I am sure it is I who is holding back this rifle/scope combination.

Thank you again Frank for a really great challenge.

 

[johngfoster]

A friend brought along some of these targets to the range today, and I thought I'd give it another try. My last attempt was over 3 yrs ago. Still using the same rifle and same load. This time was a little better. I found the biggest challenge to be in my head though, eyes playing tricks on me, psyching myself out, etc. I know my rifle and ammo can do it, but the true test is the trigger puller. Here's my target:

 

[tikkatac]

tagged

 

[mrbungle]

tag for later....

 

[tmcelrath]

Well I have been off the hide for a long friggin time and I come back to this thread. The link for the practical tactical target on the 1st page doesnt work for me. Can someone re post it? Id like to give it a shot now that Ive had time to build up a nice little supply of ammo.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Well I have been off the hide for a long friggin time and I come back to this thread. The link for the practical tactical target on the 1st page doesnt work for me. Can someone re post it? Id like to give it a shot now that Ive had time to build up a nice little supply of ammo.

http://stormtactical.com/images/2009/SH_dot_drill.pdf

 

[tmcelrath]

Thank you much!

 

[z71rat]

I really like these... ALOT!! Can't ever have too much practice for sure. Practice what you really need to work on, the other stuff takes care of itself!!

DK

 

[OREGUN]

This ought to produce a laugh. I'd had been able to reliably put 3 rds in under 1" from 100 yds with my stock Remington 700 in .308. So, I put it in a new stock, replaced the trigger (thanks to the recall for motivating that move) and tried this drill.

Shot five rounds on another target to re-establish zero from the stock change. Shot the sighter at the bottom and went to work. At least one of the shots I KNOW I tossed. The rest...? I have some work to do. To the OP's point, shooting a -1" 3 round group is way different than hitting a -1" dot with the first round!

I'm a total noob to precision rifle shooting (can't you tell by the gun choice?). This is the first center fire rifle (first time with a scope too) I've shot and I have perhaps 500 rounds through it.



Rem 700 AAC-SD, .308 win
B&C Medalist Style 4 stock
Timney Calvin Elite, #1 pull weight
Primary Arms 4-16x44
Badger Rings
Nightforce 20MOA base

 

[areskslan]

This ought to produce a laugh. I'd had been able to reliably put 3 rds in under 1" from 100 yds with my stock Remington 700 in .308. So, I put it in a new stock, replaced the trigger (thanks to the recall for motivating that move) and tried this drill.

Shot five rounds on another target to re-establish zero from the stock change. Shot the sighter at the bottom and went to work. At least one of the shots I KNOW I tossed. The rest...? I have some work to do. To the OP's point, shooting a -1" 3 round group is way different than hitting a -1" dot with the first round!

I'm a total noob to precision rifle shooting (can't you tell by the gun choice?). This is the first center fire rifle (first time with a scope too) I've shot and I have perhaps 500 rounds through it.

View attachment 37840

Rem 700 AAC-SD, .308 win
B&C Medalist Style 4 stock
Timney Calvin Elite, #1 pull weight
Primary Arms 4-16x44
Badger Rings
Nightforce 20MOA base

I seriously see the lack of humor. You are someone who put their ego aside and realizes they have some work to do rather than make excuses. I personally applaud your efforts sir, keep up the good work to becoming a fantastic shooter.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Bender]

Tag.

 

[ptosis]

I'd love to play. Does anyone still have the original target file? The link in the first post says "Http/1.1 Service Unavailable".
Or rather can anyone tell me the size of the dots (I would guess it's 1", right?)? I don't have a 100 range available, would have to scale it for 300 m.

 

[Max Owner]

Tagging for future use. Can't find the subscribe feature on my phone......

 

[Romeyo]

I'm using those for 50m rimfire practice... only difference beeing shooting each dot another time if I missed on first shot...

I'd love to play. Does anyone still have the original target file? The link in the first post says "Http/1.1 Service Unavailable".
Or rather can anyone tell me the size of the dots (I would guess it's 1", right?)? I don't have a 100 range available, would have to scale it for 300 m.

they're about 3/4" / 19mm in size.

 

[Winchester59]

Tip: A $1 bingo stamp works great to put multiple 1" dots on a piece of paper. Bright red and lasts a long time.

 

[aam]

I hope this works.

 

[lash]

I hope this works.

@aam, How were you able to attach the PDF files? I have a couple of charts that I want to post in a thread, but have hadd some difficulty getting the PDFs to take.

Oh, and thanks for the extra dot drill targets and instructions. I'll add them to my collection.

 

[aam]

Lash,

I’m not tech savvy. I pressed the attach files icon tab just below the comments box.

This should bring up your libraries folder.

Scroll to the pdf you want and click on it.

Look at the file name in the dialog box, I then pressed the open tab Icon; the file should download onto the web site.

The other way to try is to drag and drop. This also worked for me. I'm running windows 8.1

 

[lash]

Thanks. I'll give it another go tomorrow.

 

[G17C]

Inspired by this thread, I decided to give this a try today. I have these NRA 50-foot smallbore targets handy, so I decided to use them.

On the target below (100 yards) I used the upper-center target to test my zero out of a clean, cold bore. I fired two rounds and decided to give it one click left and one click down, and then shot the rest of the targets with one round each of GMM 175, starting with the upper left and working my way clockwise;

Shots 2, 3 and 5 form a nice little bug hole, all five together form about a 1 MOA group.

I then spent some time shooting at steel 462 yards away.

My last five shots of the day: I switched to GMM 168 and shot one more 100-yard Big Dot Drill. I did not make any corrections for the different load, just lined up the five targets and shot them a little more quickly;

The five shots form a group of about .5 MOA. Shots 1, 2 and 4 form a bug hole, as do shots 3 and 5.

I am pleased with my progress (I just started shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag), but I need more work. I'm still not managing recoil consistently and struggled to see my hits on the steel. Also, the rear bag I was using was too tall, too stiff and not very stable (see photo below), which I think contributed to the inconsistency and not seeing my hits. I'm thinking a bigger, softer rear bag may be the way to go.

 

[Kane0519]

This is a decade old thread, but the info is as relevant as ever.

 

[Changed]

Shooting a group serves one purpose to me. That is to prove the viability of the load/weapon. One I know the gun can perform, and the ammo can perform, it is up to me to perform. Confidence in a system is very often understated.

 

[G17C]

Shooting a group serves one purpose to me. That is to prove the viability of the load/weapon. One I know the gun can perform, and the ammo can perform, it is up to me to perform. Confidence in a system is very often understated.

This! I have always shot groups off the bench for this purpose. My current goal is to build enough competence shooting supported prone to have the same level of confidence in the results as I have had shooting off the bench on bags. I now consider this quite achievable.

 

[m1marty]

Still fun all these years later. 100m, 7 rounds, 1min30sec time limit. A3 and Federal 168gr GM

 

[lash]

Still fun all these years later. 100m, 7 rounds, 1min30sec time limit. A3 and Federal 168gr GM

A good drill, well run, is always fun.

 

[deersniper]

@Lowlight do you have updated links for the targets? These links appear dead. Thanks.

Okay, I have read all the posts I really have cared to read regarding 100 yard groups, and practice when you don't access to longer ranges, and all that comes with rifles guaranteed to shoot sub half minute groups. And frankly we all should realize that 90% of the battle is the shooter and not the rifle.

If we missed it, you should realize bullet manufacturers don't guarantee factory match ammunition to .25" and if you are going to chase handloads to find that perfect load you are gonna be stuck doing "load development" for a very long time.

By now we should know where I stand with 100 yard groups. To refresh your memory, I can't stand them. I think they are counter productive to good shooting, and are simply a lesson in futility. So, with that, I have a target that I do think has practical application to help the tactical shooter. So, I made up a Sniper's Hide Practical Tactical Target for people to download and shoot.

This Practical Tactical Target has a spot at the bottom for you to zero your rifle so you are centered up on the target. If you want to shoot 3 rounds or 5 rounds I don't care, you can even shoot one round cold bore there... the point being use the bottom target first. Then you'll find 15 very small targets for you to put 1 round on each target. You don't have to shoot them all in a row, you can mix it up, but the idea is to put one round in each target hitting the black. Practice this and you'll be much more proficient when it comes to engaging targets down the road, whether it be a 1000 yards or 1000 yards.
Here are the links to the targets created by Sniper's Hide for Tactical Shooters.

1. SH Dot Drill Target

2. SH Advanced Dot Drill Target

3. SH Competition Dot Drill

4. SH Group Shot Target

These are the most common ones features on the site.

Here is a jpg of the actual target:

Good luck and keep practicing...

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

@Lowlight do you have updated links for the targets? These links appear dead. Thanks.

Page 9, Post 417 has PDF files attached.

 

[deersniper]

Page 9, Post 417 has PDF files attached.

Thanks.

 

[Rust]

Well, I believe that group shooting and multiple target shooting both serve a purpose. Currently I have two new rifles which I have yet to fire due to eye surgeries (5) and it just won't stop raining when I have a day to shoot.

Anyway load development for 600, 800, 900 and 1,000 requires a fair bit of group shooting over a chrono (ES and SD matter). A change in lot number for primers, brass bullets or powder requires testing as well if only to confirm no change (no change happens about 50% of the time) while taking into account temperature.

All that simply because everyone else is just getting stupid accurate. Like the most recent five shot record a shade over 1.00 in all in the X ring at 1,000 yards.

That said single shot targets really help to improve field shooting. If I have a fair amount of range to myself I'll put out a few multi dot targets and not next to each other so that the rifle has to be shifted. A rimfire makes things more fun as wind reading is a must at 50 or 100. Even with a rimfire that is older than I am and I ain't young any more.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

For me, group shooting is a frequent necessity as I upgrade loads to try new bullets, etc., and upgrade optics, etc. It seems lately that between weather (mostly heat) delays and increasing project backlogs, it's most of what I do. But the upgrading is done for the foreseeable future and the scope work and loads, etc., are reaching their completion.

So shooting challenge targets and the like are really the gravy in my shooting menu; they're the fun part.

I was recently reminded that The 'Hide is not Greg's personal shooting blog", and that's precisely correct. It's all our personal shooting blog, and it's the only one I've got. The problem with my contributions here is that there needs to be more like them from the rest of us here to balance things out.

Greg

 

[ShtrRdy]

I liked the "Cold Bore Challange" target Lowlight posted a number of years ago. It was fun and revealing.

 

[DellaDog]

I've made a bunch for practice, here's one I use for 200 yd. work and another for load development or 100 yard work. Also have other versions that print at 11 x 17 for both 100 & 200 yd work. Much more challenging than group shooting.

The grids help w/ misses, also useful for OCW.

 

[Crews]

I shot this for drill for the first time yesterday, and will concur that this is a much better way to spend your time on a short range. I only have a ruler (no micrometer).... measured distance from center of dot to center of bullet hole for each and came up with a rough average around .5 MOA. Looking forward to trying it again and continuing to focus on the fundamentals!