Practicing trigger control.

[Punisher29073]

No sir. Just giving you grief over your "toy soldier" comment. No hostility meant. Don't figure you would really kick some one in the balls for doing it wrong.

Until they spent an hour explaining why it was right because that's the way all their toy soldiers were positioned in every bag he got 40 years ago, but I digress.

Just teasin a bit.

Ryan

 

[orkan]

I took your comment in the spirit intended punisher... mr m40 on the other hand seems to have that condition typically found in womens crotch on the beach.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I took your comment in the spirit intended punisher... mr m40 on the other hand seems to have that condition typically found in womens crotch on the beach.

There's a YouTube video on angle shooting presented by the USAMU. In an earlier post I suggested you look at it. I want to know if you would kick the shooter or even tell him his position is not correct as you see it. His position is clearly not what you say it should be. His position is also clearly a position that works for the USAMU shooter, that's to say, one that gets results, if HM, Distinguished, Pres. 100 are seen as having gotten results. My point is this, if a shooter is getting good results standing on his head I am not going to tell him he is doing it wrong. Although such a technique is unorthodox I would only suggest he might try doing it from doctrine if groupings suggest the position is not steady.

M40_A1's perception of your comment is also how I read it.

Shooting in the National Trophy Championships years ago, I saw the USAMU Service Rifle Team Coach SFG Praslick leaving the firing line remarking he shot a 95 and something. I don't remember if it was the President's Hundred Match or Other; but, I do remember a friend of mine yelling out " a 95, you can do better than that". I also remember SFG Praslick's response, "why don't you come up here and show me how to do it". That would have been funny, since my friend, at that time, was not knowledgeable about anything important to good shooting. The point of this is simply that it is not possible for anyone who has not been to the top of the mountain to give a good description of what the view is like; meaning, you accept what it must be like as told by those who have actually been there. If you are training anyone about anything and are not completely knowledgeable about how to do it, as suggested by not being among the best at it, it is smart to stick to the script written by others more knowledgeable. You seem to be adlibbing or you are using a bad script.

 

[Jaeger308]

This thread started on topic of trigger control and practice and has turned into the typical shooting position debate the way many of these threads go. Let us attempt to clear a few things up here:

<OMost new shooters in the civilian world that practice precision rifle start of a bench at local ranges and shoot bug hole groups, the next progression is a front support prone position of some sort. For those new shooters who search out training, we as instructors will teach the fundamentals and principles. Students will then begin to change their position building and shot sequence to fit themselves, this is inevitable human nature. Our goal as instructors is to let them but insure that fundamentals are still covered and not broken. Much like a golfer there are fundamentals in a swing but everyone does it a bit different to fit themselves.

<OIn order to become a complete rifle marksman a shooter needs to also practice other positions, something many do not want to do, “work on what they suck at.” Front support other than prone, offhand, sitting, kneeling, weak side, working a sling in positions, not working a sling these are all side notes for many and an inconvenience. Everyone is on the learning curve somewhere this is not cookie cutter stuff.

<OWhat I find comical is folks chime in on topics here with opinions and statements from whatever box they came from and call it pure factual from their prospective and everyone else is wrong? “Well the USAMU had it all figured out by 1980” or “This training venue/company wrote the book” After basic courses, some of my best training came when a class was full of students of different experiences, military branches and/or civilian shooters learning from each other as well as from the instructors. With all this said as I mentioned the USAMU had it all figured out by 1980, well the USMC had it done by 1978 Culver, Land, Cuddy and Hathcock with a little help from the Canadians and the British set the standard and handed to the AMU….

 

[Sterling Shooter]

There are plenty of folks out there who can demonstrate how to do it. Any aspiring shooter and/or coach would be smart to use their scripts for any aspect of it, suppressing their own views which are likely as limited as they may be flawed.

 

[orkan]

You seem to be adlibbing or you are using a bad script.

You measure success by whether or not someone has a book on the subject, or wins consistently competitively.

I do very well at competitions, yet I rarely compete these days. Though you don't have to look far around here to find someone that will tell you they would rather not go head to head with me in a match. So you can hang your hat on NRA accomplishments all you want, the world is much bigger than the segment you pick and choose to respect. Advancements in technique and knowledge can come from anywhere. Your regimented adherence to the "old" way as the "only" way may serve you... but it does not serve everyone. I'm quite thankful for that.

You're inference that I'm making it up as I go only makes you look elitist and foolish. My true measure of success is whether or not my students have increased THEIR performance as a result of my involvement. It matters not to me whether I have your approval.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

You measure success by whether or not someone has a book on the subject, or wins consistently competitively.

I do very well at competitions, yet I rarely compete these days. Though you don't have to look far around here to find someone that will tell you they would rather not go head to head with me in a match. So you can hang your hat on NRA accomplishments all you want, the world is much bigger than the segment you pick and choose to respect. Advancements in technique and knowledge can come from anywhere. Your regimented adherence to the "old" way as the "only" way may serve you... but it does not serve everyone. I'm quite thankful for that.

You're inference that I'm making it up as I go only makes you look elitist and foolish. My true measure of success is whether or not my students have increased THEIR performance as a result of my involvement. It matters not to me whether I have your approval.

Wins would certainly be way to appraise one's ability to do it, although not necessarily their ability to teach it. But instead of changing the subject, why not just answer the question I posed? Would you kick the shooter shown in the video I suggested you watch? Would you tell him he is doing it wrong? That sort of shooting is in your arena of expertise is it not? Clearly, the shooter is not doing it your way, so, is his position wrong? Is his position built on his experience, or his remembrance of little green toy soldiers, as you implied? You cannot answer these questions without falling short of the persona you wanted to project, when you posted what you want to do to folks who do not do it your way, no? And, yes, I do think you are making it up as you go, like your last post attempting to portray me as being elitist and foolish. It is you that looks foolish, implying that if it is not your way it is wrong. Clearly, the way the accomplished shooter is doing it in the video suggests that there are other ways, which you cannot pass off as old ways since the video is contemporary. And finally, you don't need to convince me you know how to do it, there are plenty of folks out there teaching stuff they have limited experience with and doing a good job it seems; but, they all have one thing in common, they stick to the curriculum they were instructed to teach. You might want to look into that before professing anything. It will keep you from looking foolish; and who knows with practice someday you might become a really great coach/shooter.

 

[orkan]

Are you really so foolish as to think I would actually go kick someone in the fucking balls? Are you truly so dense as to understand the difference between a legitimate threat and a slight of wordplay?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Are you really so foolish as to think I would actually go kick someone in the fucking balls? Are you truly so dense as to understand the difference between a legitimate threat and a slight of wordplay?

Yes I understand the he-man "wordplay" as you call it, all along, as well as your macho expression about women on the beach so, instead of planting distractions, just answer the question. Is the shooter doing it wrong?

 

[orkan]

Why in the hell would I choose to have a dialogue with you about anything after your snide bullshit remarks here? Clearly you'll be keeping your own counsel. Answer your own damn questions.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Why in the hell would I choose to have a dialogue with you about anything after your snide bullshit remarks here? Clearly you'll be keeping your own counsel. Answer your own damn questions.

The first thing a coach should learn how to do is not come unglued. Students respect a coach that can keep it together under pressure. Using words like those you have resorted to, which is an indication that you have seen the flaws in your position, or have lost it, are what end a dialogue. That's too bad. You seem like a great guy. I was even going to put you on my friends list. No, not really.

 

[M40_A1]

mr m40 on the other hand seems to have ...found...womens crotch on the beach.

It's just a pet peave of mine when coaches go to alter a position without checking downrange results of the shooter first. Just this last week I watched as a visiting coach approached one of our top shooters and started modifying her position before even looking down range to see how she was doing. Her position works very well for her, and she wins with it. I didn't mean anything personal, and I sure didn't mean for any of this to start by it.

 

[orkan]

The first thing a coach should learn how to do is not come unglued. Students respect a coach that can keep it together under pressure. Using words like those you have resorted to, which is an indication that you have seen the flaws in your position, or have lost it, are what end a dialogue. That's too bad. You seem like a great guy. I was even going to put you on my friends list. No, not really.

Come unglued? Last I checked... you weren't my student. I'm damn sure not your "coach," and I sure as hell don't have any interest in cooperating with elitists such as yourself. If that is your definition of "coming unglued" you must have a very weak constitution. I'll leave you to your high-power shooting gospel.

 

[Xcount]

Awesome! another pissing contest on the hide. like no other place i've ever seen. even the administrator participates.

The OP's question gets buried. The really sad part of this particular contest is that it can be settled at any match, put up a score. This is the Marksmanship questions section, what better way to settle a question about marksmanship than at a match?

The National Matches are coming up anyone with the balls to actually shoot anymore?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Come unglued? Last I checked... you weren't my student. I'm damn sure not your "coach," and I sure as hell don't have any interest in cooperating with elitists such as yourself. If that is your definition of "coming unglued" you must have a very weak constitution. I'll leave you to your high-power shooting gospel.

Well, there you go again. No mention of High-Power anywhere on this thread and why would its mention be needed to support any side of a discussion when all shooting is the same. I guess that's another thing you don't know yet. And, can you stop with the name calling, that's no way to make friends.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I'll be there coaching SAFS. I may shoot if my glaucoma does not get worse.

 

[DeadSilence]

Here is related question that might freshen the air of this thread:
In order to maintain good trigger control what angle should your wrist be in?
i.e. bent, straight, high, low?

This is not a trick or gotcha question. I am having some inconsistent flyers from time to time and have started to analyze my shooting form compared to others that I think shoot well. There is a difference between their form when compared with mine. I am looking for input.

Thx.

 

[Xcount]

I'll be there coaching SAFS. I may shoot if my glaucoma does not get worse.

Move to Colorado, smoke some pot, and quit pissing in the wind here. Tell me the definition of insanity??? You and this site are that definition. I'm Dbl Dist., HM and never seen anything like what you put yourself through here. WTF?? it ain't worth it.

as a matter of fact i'm fucking done with this place. never again.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Move to Colorado, smoke some pot, and quit pissing in the wind here. Tell me the definition of insanity??? You and this site are that definition. I'm Dbl Dist., HM and never seen anything like what you put yourself through here. WTF?? it ain't worth it.

as a matter of fact i'm fucking done with this place. never again.

If I was not having sooo much fun here, I'd be right behind you.

 

[Thebelly]

Here is related question that might freshen the air of this thread:
In order to maintain good trigger control what angle should your wrist be in?
i.e. bent, straight, high, low?

This is not a trick or gotcha question. I am having some inconsistent flyers from time to time and have started to analyze my shooting form compared to others that I think shoot well. There is a difference between their form when compared with mine. I am looking for input.

Thx.

Everyone is different, so coming up with a single method to achieve the 'correct' wrist angle will vary between shooters. I build from the trigger finger back. As long as what you're manipulating the trigger straight to the rear and not disrupting the sight alignment, then it doesn't matter (if you're staying only within the left-right limits of trigger control). I like to block my elbows straight out so that my elbows and shoulders are perpendicular to the direction of the rifle. This means that my wrist is bent a certain way FOR ME. The body position will help (greatly) to mitigate recoil, and manipulating the trigger straight to the rear (again, without disturbing sight alignment) will help keep the gun on target (by not disturbing the sights).

 

[sandwarrior]

Thebelly,

Good points!

The hardest thing for me, because I'm short coupled, is bending my wrist down to make a shot. When I have to. Sometimes you have to build a position high up to get over obstacles between you and the target. I find when I'm shooting prone and pushed up, and high on my elbows, this a) makes for a less stable position and b) my trigger finger doesn't work so well when my wrist is bent down to match the trigger position it needs to be in. For me it boils down to cognizance of the trigger pull. Because in that situation, there is no other position you can take.

Ordinarily I do just like Thebelly and block my shoulders and elbows as square as I can to the direction rifle is pointing. But my focus always comes from the wrist and how that makes my finger feel in relation to the trigger. I then factor in how much I'm going to have to work on getting that trigger pull right. If it's not "normal", a lot. If it's comfortable (usually straight) then it's like second nature and not much thought at all about how to focus on the trigger. The trigger pull just comes naturally.