Rifle Scopes Precision AR scope- PH, Lupy Mark 6, March, NF F1?

[generalzip]

Looking for a scope for my Larue Stealth upper in 5.56. I was pretty dead set on a NF F1, but after seeing all these new options from SHOT I have to rethink everything again. I'm looking to spend around 2,500 at most. I was looking very hard at the Mark 6, but the lack of illumination was a turn off as well as all the horror stories I've heard about Leupold quality over the recent years. I also am looking for a FFP scope as this will be used to engage unknown distance targets as quickly as possible. After reviewing my options even further I think I've found everything i need in a scope in the new Premier Light tactical 3.5-15x50. I really like the size of the Mark 6 and heard the glass is great, but I like the reputation of PH as well as the illuminated reticle. I also like the recticle on the PH more for windage holds. The March 3-24 looks unbelieveable with its mag range, size, and glass quality, but the small eyebox is a game changer for me. In order of preference this is what I'm looking for in a scope:

1. Trackability (for $2500 they all damn well better work properly)
2. Durability (If I drop my rifle I want it to keep working)
3. Eyebox/relief (One of my pet peeves of scopes is the lack of a decent eyebox to allow for different shooting positions and quicker follow up shots after recoil.)
4. Glass quality (For this amount of money I want it to look like I'm wearing the pair of glasses I never needed growing up)
5. Size/weight (This is going on an 18" AR, not a 15 lb bolt gun. Weight and size is of importance)
6. Features (illuminated reticle, good turrets, zero stop)

Which scope would you pick?? I think the 3.5 on the low end and around 15X on the max is decent of the 5.56 round out to 6-700 yards. Obv more mag isnt an issue, but I want the low end around 3X. Any other suggestions are appreciated.

 

[generalzip]

I was also taking look at the Kahles K312 as I heard the glass is amazing, but am unsure as to the durability, tracking, and reputation of this scope

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

I was also taking look at the Khales 3-12 as I heard the glass is amazing, but am unsure as to the durability, tracking, and reputation of this scope

Not their first rodeo. I wouldn't be worried. Don't think Lowlight has trashed his yet so that should mean something.

 

[locobob]

Some of the MK6 line is currently illuminated, and possibly more will have that option in the future. Wouldn't hurt to call Leupold and tell them what you want. I ran into a Leupold Rep at the range a few weeks ago, he said the military is snapping up a lot of MK6's right now and availability may be tight for a while. He also said that the military is ordering both illuminated and non-illuminated versions - apparently some units want it and others do not.

 

[generalzip]

Thanks for the replies. Does anyone have experience seeing/shooting with these scopes to give a comparison? I was only worried about the Kahles because it seems like a hunting scope company entering the tactical market. Whereas something like Premier, or S&B entered building tactical scopes as their priority.

 

[ClearwaterKen]

Hello all,

Kahles has actually been producing Military grade optics for quite some time, just outside the US. One of the most popular Tactical scopes offered by Kahles has been the ZF series, ZF69,ZF84 and the ZF95. These optics have been in use outside the US for decades with continued renewal of contracts. Just recently, Kahles entered the American market with their new line of Tactical Scopes, the K series. The K16i, a true dark horse was released early last year and already some of the best 3-Gun shooters in the world are relying on this optic for their competition use as it has the largest field of view and the brightest illumination on the market. The K312II was recently fielded to Russia and this was the first time in over 50 years, Russia accepted and outside optic for their SOF use. This is one of many Governmental contracts issued to Kahles.

Have a look through a Kahles and better yet, compare pricing, specs, and most importantly, where the optic is built. We can say we control our quality as even our body tubes are spun in house in Vienna Austria. 115 years and still producing innovative products driven by you the shooter.

Regards, and as always, feel free to contact me for anything Kahles related,
Ken Pratt

 

[student 86]

When will the k312II be available and is the MSR going to be an option?

 

[generalzip]

Hello all,

Kahles has actually been producing Military grade optics for quite some time, just outside the US. One of the most popular Tactical scopes offered by Kahles has been the ZF series, ZF69,ZF84 and the ZF95. These optics have been in use outside the US for decades with continued renewal of contracts. Just recently, Kahles entered the American market with their new line of Tactical Scopes, the K series. The K16i, a true dark horse was released early last year and already some of the best 3-Gun shooters in the world are relying on this optic for their competition use as it has the largest field of view and the brightest illumination on the market. The K312II was recently fielded to Russia and this was the first time in over 50 years, Russia accepted and outside optic for their SOF use. This is one of many Governmental contracts issued to Kahles.

Have a look through a Kahles and better yet, compare pricing, specs, and most importantly, where the optic is built. We can say we control our quality as even our body tubes are spun in house in Vienna Austria. 115 years and still producing innovative products driven by you the shooter.

Regards, and as always, feel free to contact me for anything Kahles related,
Ken Pratt

Great info thanks! I'll def have to take a harder look at the Kahles. Are there any plans to include an illuminated reticle or other reticle options? After reading the reviews I've seen if it had an illuminated reticle I would have placed an order already I think haha

 

[ClearwaterKen]

When will the k312II be available and is the MSR going to be an option?

Hello,

The K312II is currently available and is a industry leader in weight and field of view. A few members on the hide have them and overall, this has been a very successful optic. We will be offering the MSR in this optic as well but in the future. I don't have a timeline as of yet.

Here is a good link to info on the K312II as well as a review posted by a member here as well:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/174186-kahles-312-a.html

Staff Optics Review: Kahles K312 II 3-12×50 | Tactical Gun Review

generalzip,

Currently the K16i and the K624i are illuminated. We are also looking at additional options for the K312II as well. 100% shooter driven so if this is something you would like to see in our line, we are all ears and eager to hear your feedback.

Regards,
Ken


Regards,
Ken

 

[BCP]

Looking for a scope for my Larue Stealth upper in 5.56. I was pretty dead set on a NF F1, but after seeing all these new options from SHOT I have to rethink everything again. I'm looking to spend around 2,500 at most. I was looking very hard at the Mark 6, but the lack of illumination was a turn off as well as all the horror stories I've heard about Leupold quality over the recent years. I also am looking for a FFP scope as this will be used to engage unknown distance targets as quickly as possible. After reviewing my options even further I think I've found everything i need in a scope in the new Premier Light tactical 3.5-15x50. I really like the size of the Mark 6 and heard the glass is great, but I like the reputation of PH as well as the illuminated reticle. I also like the recticle on the PH more for windage holds. The March 3-24 looks unbelieveable with its mag range, size, and glass quality, but the small eyebox is a game changer for me. In order of preference this is what I'm looking for in a scope:

1. Trackability (for $2500 they all damn well better work properly)
2. Durability (If I drop my rifle I want it to keep working)
3. Eyebox/relief (One of my pet peeves of scopes is the lack of a decent eyebox to allow for different shooting positions and quicker follow up shots after recoil.)
4. Glass quality (For this amount of money I want it to look like I'm wearing the pair of glasses I never needed growing up)
5. Size/weight (This is going on an 18" AR, not a 15 lb bolt gun. Weight and size is of importance)
6. Features (illuminated reticle, good turrets, zero stop)

Which scope would you pick?? I think the 3.5 on the low end and around 15X on the max is decent of the 5.56 round out to 6-700 yards. Obv more mag isnt an issue, but I want the low end around 3X. Any other suggestions are appreciated.

I think you'd be very happy with a nightforce 2.5-10. It has everything you are asking for except the mag range but 10x is still enough to shoot out to 600 on an F class target or at steel. I think if you look at what other people are using on 18" 223s you'll find most gravitate towards lightweight, simple optics that have 10x on the top end.

Except for the premier light tactical and the leupold mk6 the big names all weigh about 30-38oz and depending on how your rifle is set up that might be a drag.

edit: FWIW, Kahles makes beautiful optics and has done so for a very long time. There was a guy selling a kahles 3-12 tactical in the sales section for 1700 awhile back and it killed me to not have the $$$ at the time.

 

[generalzip]

I think you'd be very happy with a nightforce 2.5-10. It has everything you are asking for except the mag range but 10x is still enough to shoot out to 600 on an F class target or at steel. I think if you look at what other people are using on 18" 223s you'll find most gravitate towards lightweight, simple optics that have 10x on the top end.

Except for the premier light tactical and the leupold mk6 the big names all weigh about 30-38oz and depending on how your rifle is set up that might be a drag.

I agree with the thought on magnification. For 600 yards not much is needed. However, so long as size and weight isn't affect more is always better in my book. However the NF, is SFP and I'm looking for a FFP scope to do ranging on any magnification. I just don't see a time really where having 2.5 on the low end vs. 3.5X is more advantageous than having an extra 5X on the high end IMO. I'll most likely throw a doctor on the side so the extreme low end isnt of much concern to me. I'm also told the Premier, mark 6, and Kahles blow the NF NXS out of the water in terms of glass quality which is of huge importance to me.

 

[inferno218]

I am in the same situation looking for a scope for my kac lpr. I originally was looking at the nf 2.5-10x42 coming out the fall, but I am beginning to question my first thoughts...

The march 3-24 ffp does blow everyone away when it comes to a spec battle. I have read that sub 20 power the eyebox is more user friendly. Even if you have to run it sub at sub 20 power it is still more powerful that the competition while also being smaller and lighter.

 

[BCP]

Here's one of Ilya's articles on high-end optics.

High End Tactical Scopes: Part III

He has some other writeups as well that might help you decide how you want to go.

 

[generalzip]

I've narrowed it down to the March 3-24, Kahles 3-12, and PH light tactical. Only the PH has an illuminated reticle and I don't think its worth 500 more dollars to get an IR on the March. My only concern with the March is that with a FFP scope I won't get much use out of the reticle as I would rarely be above 15X with a 5.56 platform. Although, I only have experience with SFP scopes. Is this a reasonable concern to have? I'm drawn to the Kahles for the whole package it deliver, but wish it had a IR. The Premier seems like a great choice due to reputation, size, IR (sets it apart from the others), and still good glass. Has anyone used the K312, and Premier light tactical that could compare these two directly? I'm leaning toward the Premier due to the IR and size/weight. Also I get an extra 3X on the high end