Precision loading with a Dillon 650...Who’s done it?

[Kwilm]

I’m currently using a Forster Co-Ax and an A&D 120i with auto trickler setup to load all of my precision stuff (6cm, 6.5x47, 223ai, 7SAUM and soon 25cm). My time is limited with two young boys so I load while they are sleeping so I can spend as much time with them as possible.

My main goal is to try and save a little more time and making Ome handle pull do three things instead of one like on my coax.

I had good success with loading on a 550 a few years back but hated having to index each time. I never could get a rhythm down and would always forget to turn the cases before pulling the handle.

I would still plan on manually dropping powder from my auto trickler and use the Area419 funnel with extended drop tube probably.

Have any of you used a 650 to load precision ammo before? How did it work out? Would the floating dies/toolheads be beneficial? Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[padom]

Numerous threads already on this very topic and the mods necessary to get the accuracy your looking for. Many of us do, yes.


http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...s-single-or-progressive.6892573/#post-7122609

 

[Kwilm]

Numerous threads already on this very topic and the mods necessary to get the accuracy your looking for. Many of us do, yes.

I tried the search function and didn’t come up with anything. My search skills suck

 

[ballison]

This what you're looking for?

 

[msmith64]

I do it but the powder throw is the weak link of the 650 when using extruded powders like varget, RL 16 or IMR4064. No matter what it will not throw consistent charges. I ended up using a powder funnel on my tool head and weighing each charge with a chargemaster, then dumping it in the powder funnel

 

[Kwilm]

This what you're looking for?

Perfect. Great article. Thanks

 

[Kwilm]

I do it but the powder throw is the weak link of the 650 when using extruded powders like varget, RL 16 or IMR4064. No matter what it will not throw consistent charges. I ended up using a powder funnel on my tool head and weighing each charge with a chargemaster, then dumping it in the powder funnel

I figured this would probably be the case. My plan would be to do what your doing but with my auto trickler. Thanks.

 

[Pixel_wasted]

Floating tool head does help thing out,if you have the extra $60 laying around

 

[Assault116]

I do all my brass prep for my match rifles on the 650 and then charge with an Auto-Trickler and seat on my Co-AX. I haven't tried charging and seating on the 650 as I have what I want from my setup. I made my own floating die setup from standard Dillon Tool heads and Forster lock rings (significantly less expensive than a Whidden and just as accurate). Just doing all the brass work on the Dillon speeds up the overall process significantly. Here's how I do it, it's not as fast as doing it all on the 650 but it's better than doing it all on the single stage.

1. I have a tool head set up with a mighty Armory decapping die and a K&M expander mandrel, I run the brass through the press to decap and the expander takes out any dented necks. (rate about 5-600/hour) Expander is a floating die setup.

2. Tumble brass

3. Anneal - AMP

4. Lube and size brass - For this I have a second tool head set up with my sizing die and another K&M expander ground to produce .0035" neck tension (just what seemed to work best for my application) using an expander mandrel instead of a ball significantly reduced ES for me. (rate again about 5-600/hour) Both the expander and the sizing die are floating.

5. Tumble lube off the brass (not 100% necessary but it drives me up the wall to have it on my finished ammo)

6. Trim/debur/Chamfer - I use a Giraud (some of the best money I ever spent in my loading room)

7. Prime (I use an RCBS bench mount Auto prime unit works very well, good feel and quick once you develop your technique) (prod rate unknown but I'd say about 300-hour never really timed it)

8. Charge - Autotrickler and a Redding powder throw. I thought about adding the auto throw to it, but I don't see it really saving me any time as I throw the charge about .5 gr short and let the trickler finish it (the Area 419 trickler base and powder cup made things much more consistent and quiet) About 100 rounds per hour prod rate.

9. Seat and pack. I use my co-ax to seat and when I'm in my groove, I can seat and put the loaded rounds in an MTM case at about 200 or so per hour.

Basically all said and done I have every bit as good of ammo from this process as doing it all on the co-ax in about half the overall time due to my process being a bit more involved (deprime and expand before tumbling, and then size and expand for neck tension separately)

I know others that charge from a Prometheus or Auto Trickler with a powder funnel die and then seat all on the 650 in a fully progressive setup and have good luck with it. They just either leave the lube on the ammo or tumble the loaded rounds in dry media. I just don't really like doing that so I do what I do.


As far as other modifications besides the toolheads I do have the bearing for the shellplate and the low mass detent ball. Both available here.
https://ballistictools.com/store/dillon-press-enhancements/dillon-650-bearing-kit
https://ballistictools.com/store/dillon-press-enhancements/dillon-650-detent-ball

 

[padom]

I do it all on a 650 and dont tumble live rounds or leave lube on....case prep toolhead deprimes, bumps shoulder and squeezes neck down and trims ( dillon fl trim die) then 21st TiN mandrel opens neck up to .002 neck tension. Then tumble.

Loading toolhead has universal deprime die to knock media out of primer hole, drop powder (powder measure or area419 funnel depending on powder) then seat die with Forster Ultra micrometer seater..

 

[Yondering]

I had good success with loading on a 550 a few years back but hated having to index each time. I never could get a rhythm down and would always forget to turn the cases before pulling the handle.

I would still plan on manually dropping powder from my auto trickler and use the Area419 funnel with extended drop tube probably.

Just a thought - if you couldn't remember to index a 550 repeatably, are you going to remember to throw powder charges every time?

That honestly sounds like a lack of attention; maybe you're trying to load with too many other things going on and can't fully concentrate. Be careful doing that, that's how people blow up rifles.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

After being unsuccessful with this previously on a 550 and 650 with Whidden floating heads I'm giving it another go with the uniquetek floating clamped heads. I even ordered a second new 650 from grafs last week to have two samples to test on to see if my first one could have been producing the excessive runout from the machine itself. I'm just waiting on my heads to come in from uniquetek which looks like is going to be next week at this point.

I too am not a fan of the 550 because it doesn't auto index. I could see it being beneficial for some things, but I don't need it. I bought my 550 before I realized you could just remove the ramp from a 650 if you don't want it to index.

I don't plan to prime, charge and seat on the Dillon for my match ammo. The priming assembly doesn't seat primers to the accuracy and consistency as I like and hand priming with the Frankford tool is a very fast and accurate process which can be done in front of the TV. At that point plus throwing on another scale IMO it's not saving much time. Using my Co-Ax I can produce ammo from prepped and primed cases as fast as the auto throw will run which is pretty damn fast so in that regard I'm not saving any time on the Dillon. If I can get the 650 and uniquetek heads to produce straight brass this time around I'll do all my brass prep on it minus trimming which will be done on the Giraud.

 

[Sheldon N]

If I can get the 650 and uniquetek heads to produce straight brass this time around I'll do all my brass prep on it minus trimming which will be done on the Giraud.

For me the key seems to be the standard FL die (honed) plus mandrel. That's producing very straight ammo on both a 550 and a 1050 for me. I got more runout when using bushing dies.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

For me the key seems to be the standard FL die (honed) plus mandrel. That's producing very straight ammo on both a 550 and a 1050 for me. I got more runout when using bushing dies.

Interesting, I wonder what the culprit is with bushing does on the Dillons vs a standard press.

Which heads are you using on the 550? Which FL dies?

 

[Sheldon N]

Which heads are you using on the 550? Which FL dies?

I've used both the stock Dillon heads and also the Whidden CNC tool heads (not the floating head version though). I use an o-ring to float the dies instead. For dies I like Forster, have a couple honed neck dies and one that's not honed. All work well.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I've used both the stock Dillon heads and also the Whidden CNC tool heads (not the floating head version though). I use an o-ring to float the dies instead. For dies I like Forster, have a couple honed neck dies and one that's not honed. All work well.

Ok thanks, I have to place a brownells order anyway so I'll pick up a Forster FL die to try out as well. I went the Uniquetek route for convenience.

Have you ever seen the Armanov heads? I'm considering ordering a few to try as well. I like how you can float a die at any of the locations with it vs. the whiddens. Not just why they don't just do them all so you're not stuck with just two. Being able to deprime first with a dedicated die, then FL size on a floating station and mandrel after would be pretty sweet.

 

[Sheldon N]

Those Armanov heads look cool. Reasonable prices too.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My (second hand in 1993) RL550b served several years as our MCL team reloading press. When I moved to upstate NY, the team bought a 650, and I got to use it several times before the move.

After the experience, I decided I like the 550 better. The case advance gets in the way of my technique, which involves doing resize/decap/recap as a separate step, employs an RCBS Chargemaster, and replaces the charged case back into the base plate for seating and collection in the bin.

I think the 550's configuration allows it to be employed as both a full progressive, or as a single stage for some of the steps. I found the 650 was less flexible in such situations.

Also, I never realized what a genuine pain in the ass the Dillon powder measure was until I was able to buy an automatic powder measure. The Dillon works great for bulk handgun and rifle ammunition production, but for precision handloading requiring .1gr charge weight accuracy, I found it wasn't all the way up to snuff the way the Hornady Lock-n-Load and the RCBS Chargemaster are.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherse.

Greg

PS, after going back and actually reading this whole topic, I'm going to try out a funnel in the powder charging station.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Those Armanov heads look cool. Reasonable prices too.

Yeah, I can't find any feedback on them though. What little I've pulled up about the company in general seems to indicate that they make quality stuff. I guess I'll be the guinea pig.

 

[RampedRaptor]

Yeah, I can't find any feedback on them though. What little I've pulled up about the company in general seems to indicate that they make quality stuff. I guess I'll be the guinea pig.

I'm in for being a guinea pig also. Now I just need to find someone to check the runout for me. They appear to be quality and are a fair price.

 

[padom]

TIR is .0005-.001 with Whidden floating toolheads, Forster FL die with button removed and 21st Century TiN mandrel and Uniquitek clamp kit.


Uniquitek toolheads are Whidden.