Precision Reloading for Extreme Accuracy (Bullet Seating)

[Diabolus]

I am putting together my reloading equipment for a .338 Lapua Mag. I am interested in the community's opinion and I am very open to suggestions. I want to have precision reloading equipment that will allow me to assemble ammunition that is incredibly precise. I enjoy the reloading process and I plan to develop ammo for my rifle so I can them compete in various matches.

I have some equipment already, but I plan on piecing all of this together and then writing about it and documenting my reloading process. At the end I hope it will be very informative and also can be easily adapted for new shooters, or anyone that may be reloading their own ammunition.

My first task is to determine the absolute best way to seat bullets. I'd like to get your thoughts on the following equipment for this process. I'm really interested in hearing your opinion and if there is a better way, or better equipment to achieve my goal of incredibly precise ammunition for extreme accuracy.

I'm interested in the 21st Century Hydro Press. For the bullet seating dies, I was looking at the 21st Century calibrated bullet seater.

Would this be the most accurate setup possible and is there any other equipment or manufactures that I should be looking at?

 

[1moaoff]

What do you currently have for reloading?
What calibers do you load for and what are the results?

 

[918v]

Just get an arbor press and a Wilson micrometer seater. Forget the hydo press and hourglass dies.

 

[Steel head]

Is all the money you spend to be incredibly precise going pan out in results from precise enough?

If you have an ok press and decent seater like a Forster that commonly get people excellent results are you going to actually be able to shoot the teeny tiny difference?

 

[918v]

The primary determining factor in precise bullet seating is case prep. You can have the best dies and presses and still get shitty results if you size the case wrong.

 

[seanh]

Just get an arbor press and a Wilson micrometer seater. Forget the hydo press and hourglass dies.

This.

But, it doesn't matter how good your reloading equipment is or how precise it is, if you don't have conditions or skill-set to utilize it you're wasting money.

For example: assume your shooting it sub 1000 yards, all you're doing is banging Steel, and doing it off a bipod on the ground or locked in with a sling...It makes no difference if you use something like Wilson or standard RCBS dies. The difference in Precision won't be identifiable in the shot results.

While I understand the thought philosophy of building precision cartridges, I'd rather put the money in range time, focus on me and my skills...get a coach (private) when necessary.

 

[1moaoff]

OP, it would still help if we knew where you were at in regards to experience currently.

 

[surgeon260]

Seating a bullet is trivial. Case prep/sizing (eg. neck thickness/uniformity/tension, headspace, weight, chamfer...) is way more consequential to consistent precision.

 

[Diabolus]

OP, it would still help if we knew where you were at in regards to experience currently.

I have many years experience with 3-gun and USPSA at a competitive level and have reloaded for this for a long time. A few years ago I started getting into bolt gun and bought a 308 which I have a ton of experience with. I reload for that now and use a Forster Co-Ax and Redding dies to make some very accurate rounds. I now want to get into very long distance shooting and went with the .338 Lapua Magnum. I'm really interested in researching reloading and the actual process of putting rounds together, I enjoy it a lot. I have various tools to measure ammo, chambers, concentricity, etc... Like I said, I really enjoy the science of it all and want to go to the extreme with the .338.

I would say I have a lot of experience in reloading pistol and rifle rounds, especially the 308 and 5.56 and now want to get very involved with .338.


The equipment I have so far that will be used for my .338 (Currently use all of this for 308):

Auto Trickler V3
A&D FX-120i
Mark II Annealer (Annealing Made Perfect)
Giraud Trimmer
Various tools to take measurements as well

I want to start with bullet seating and will work my way towards the equipment necessary for case prep/sizing (neck thickness/uniformity/tension, headspace, weight, chamfer) which I have a lot of already from shooting 308.

 

[918v]

The hydro press maxes out at 100 PSI of seating pressure. It leaks if you go over. I used it to load 300WM and can tell you that it won’t work well in the 338. You will have leverage issues, excessive seating pressure issues, clearance issues, etc.

 

[Dthomas3523]

As everyone has said, seating is the last step in a long line of other things.

You’ve basically said you want to shoot ELR distances. So, you’re going to want the be looking very close at your sd/es. Most of this is going to come from your brass prep, powder measuring, and your powder/primer combination.

To give you an idea, several have done tests with ammo with very little bullet runout and with a lot of bullet seating runout. Not much difference. Your freebore has about .0005 clearance. So it will straighten out any seating errors.

I’d be looking at better sizing dies, mandrels, and possibly neck turners before I focused on seating. The hydro press is basically just a QC check in the brass prep process. If you don’t have that down, the QC check is worthless.

 

[dirthead1]

Spend your money on a Giraud trimmer and an annealer, if you don’t already have them. Hydro seaters are way down the rabbit hole. Lots of other things that will help make more consistent ammo, as others have stated.

 

[Diabolus]

As everyone has said, seating is the last step in a long line of other things.

You’ve basically said you want to shoot ELR distances. So, you’re going to want the be looking very close at your sd/es. Most of this is going to come from your brass prep, powder measuring, and your powder/primer combination.

To give you an idea, several have done tests with ammo with very little bullet runout and with a lot of bullet seating runout. Not much difference. Your freebore has about .0005 clearance. So it will straighten out any seating errors.

I’d be looking at better sizing dies, mandrels, and possibly neck turners before I focused on seating. The hydro press is basically just a QC check in the brass prep process. If you don’t have that down, the QC check is worthless.

What sizing dies and mandrels do you suggest?

 

[Dthomas3523]

What sizing dies and mandrels do you suggest?

I use Redding mostly. But you can get any number of custom dies made for your brass.

I use 21st century mandrels as they come in .0005 increments.

 

[Diabolus]

The hydro press maxes out at 100 PSI of seating pressure. It leaks if you go over. I used it to load 300WM and can tell you that it won’t work well in the 338. You will have leverage issues, excessive seating pressure issues, clearance issues, etc.

That is not good news! This topic is already paying off. I'll be skipping the hydro press.

 

[zaprosper]

That is not good news! This topic is already paying off. I'll be skipping the hydro press.

It sounds like you have most of the good tools for accurate loading, it's a matter of determining a procedure that works and makes consistent brass. In response to one of your questions, I have used PMA mandrels and found they work good, a little better then the sinclair mandrels I have. Also use Whidden dies and hear many great things about the Forster.

 

[zaprosper]

I use Redding mostly. But you can get any number of custom dies made for your brass.

I use 21st century mandrels as they come in .0005 increments.

So do you FL size the necks with the expander out and then use the mandrel after to set neck tension? I know this is a process that Scott Satterlee follows and says it makes a big difference, but I try to avoid adding steps unnecessarily.

 

[918v]

Taking “unnecessary steps” out results in standard FL sizing. The “unnecessary steps” are there to solve problems that can present themselves when you try to do everything at once.

 

[zaprosper]

Taking “unnecessary steps” out results in standard FL sizing. The “unnecessary steps” are there to solve problems that can present themselves when you try to do everything at once.

I'm not sure what your response tries to accomplish in response to mine.
You're right in that you can do the absolute minimum to reload by depriming, resizing, priming, charging and loading a bullet and calling it done. However, we can do a lot in between that creates more uniformity for each case and bullet reloaded. We can also do a lot of extra work that accomplishes nothing. I used to spend a ridiculous amount of time doing more steps than I needed to. It's about trying to determine what steps have an appreciable impact on target and are worth doing. I would like to know from him if that is a step he does and if it makes a difference. Maybe you could answer yourself as well and I wouldn't mind productive input. Or you can make a general statement that identifies that certain steps have a purpose, but don't state the purpose.

 

[918v]

So you spent a ridiculous amount of time doing unnecessary steps. Now you ask how an expander mandrel is necessary. Here you go:


Case necks vary in thickness. But the sizing die only sizes the outside of the neck. Therefore, if you size all of your cases in that die, that thickness variance transfers to the inside of the case neck. If you try to seat bullets into necks so sized, you will experience variable seating pressure which will cause a point of impact variance- poor accuracy.

An expander mandrel uniforms the inside diameter of the neck so the seating pressure is even.

 

[Dthomas3523]

So do you FL size the necks with the expander out and then use the mandrel after to set neck tension? I know this is a process that Scott Satterlee follows and says it makes a big difference, but I try to avoid adding steps unnecessarily.

Yes. Mandrels probably make the biggest difference.

You can bring your ES down further with neck turning, but it won’t be as significant as a mandrel.

The other things are overlooking things that most people take for granted they are doing. Like verifying your actual neck tension. Many just run a bushing and/or mandrel of chosen size and assume it’s correct.

 

[zaprosper]

So you spent a ridiculous amount of time doing unnecessary steps. Now you ask how an expander mandrel is necessary. Here you go:


Case necks vary in thickness. But the sizing die only sizes the outside of the neck. Therefore, if you size all of your cases in that die, that thickness variance transfers to the inside of the case neck. If you try to seat bullets into necks so sized, you will experience variable seating pressure which will cause a point of impact variance- poor accuracy.

An expander mandrel uniforms the inside diameter of the neck so the seating pressure is even.
[/QUOT

Yes. Mandrels probably make the biggest difference.

You can bring your ES down further with neck turning, but it won’t be as significant as a mandrel.

The other things are overlooking things that most people take for granted they are doing. Like verifying your actual neck tension. Many just run a bushing and/or mandrel of chosen size and assume it’s correct.

What is it about the mandrel that makes the neck tension more consistent then running the expander button in the die? Is it because it is running through on the up and down stroke, vs only the down stroke?
Are you confirming neck tension with pin gauges after running through the mandrel? Or is there another way you confirm it?
I have a tight neck chamber that I neck turn for and didn't notice much of an additional benefit vs my no turn necks. I guess the main benefit is that I can set chamber clearance, have uniform neck thickness and avoid overworking the brass. It hasn't translated on paper though. I currently set tension using the bushing with no button. Maybe I should try a slightly undersized bushing and expand back up for neck tension.

 

[zaprosper]

So you spent a ridiculous amount of time doing unnecessary steps. Now you ask how an expander mandrel is necessary. Here you go:


Case necks vary in thickness. But the sizing die only sizes the outside of the neck. Therefore, if you size all of your cases in that die, that thickness variance transfers to the inside of the case neck. If you try to seat bullets into necks so sized, you will experience variable seating pressure which will cause a point of impact variance- poor accuracy.

An expander mandrel uniforms the inside diameter of the neck so the seating pressure is even.

You didn't really answer the question that was asked. I asked what the difference is in running the expander button in the FL sizing die, vs using an expander mandrel as a separate operation afterwards. Your answer is mostly correct, but not really what I needed answered. Perhaps i could have been a little clearer in my question.

 

[padom]

You didn't really answer the question that was asked. I asked what the difference is in running the expander button in the FL sizing die, vs using an expander mandrel as a separate operation afterwards. Your answer is mostly correct, but not really what I needed answered. Perhaps i could have been a little clearer in my question.

A few of the differences are:

1. Being able to control final neck tension
2. Being able to control how much your brass is being worked. This varies from die to die, but generally FL sizing dies overwork the brass so it works with the many many different brass brands....they vary from thick to thin neck walls.

A FL sizing die squeezes that neck WAY down then the button rips it back open on the down strike pulling it out of the case...

Some will say, that's why they use bushing dies to control neck sizing...but unless your using a mandrel or neck turning, your pushing inconsistencies to the inside of the neck which causes runout and can increase SD's and affect accuracy.

With a proper mandrel setup....you use a bushing/FL bushing die or honed FL sizing die, both with the button removed...the honed die or selected bushing only squeezes the neck down to .004 under final neck diameter.. then step 2, you run that brass into your turning mandrel or specific mandrel for your needs to open the neck back up .002 for a final neck tension of .002....

This works the brass very little, pushes inconsistencies to the outside, makes runout virtually non-existent and assists in very low SD's and accuracy.

If you want to test this....take a fired case and measure the outside neck diameter and write that number down, then take your FL sizing die, remove the entirw expander button rod...size your case...meause your squeezed down outside neck diameter and write that number down, now put the rod back in and size your brass one last time, now measure the outside neck.diameter again.. you can see how much the brass is being worked by how much its being reduced in size then how much its being opened back up...

This is the very reason we use honed FL dies or bushing dies with bushing sizes specific to our chamber and brass then use specific mandrels. I have multiple Forster honed FL sizing dies for specific brass/chamber combos....example..I have 1 Forster FL honed sizing die specific to Lapua 223 brass and my 26" Krieger 223 Wylde/Bighorn TL3 bolt gun...i have another Forster FL sizing die honed specific to LC 5.56 brass for my 20" Krieger precision AR..... they are each setup in their own dedicated 550c toolhead and labeled as such.. same goes for 6.5cm AR, 6.5cm bolt, 6br, 6.5x47L, 220TB, 224V, 300blk, 308win, etc..... yes I have a small fortune in toolheads for both my 550c and 650

I do all this on a 550C for my bolt gun brass and my XL650 for my gassers in one pass..

 

[918v]

You didn't really answer the question that was asked. I asked what the difference is in running the expander button in the FL sizing die, vs using an expander mandrel as a separate operation afterwards. Your answer is mostly correct, but not really what I needed answered. Perhaps i could have been a little clearer in my question.

To answer the most recent variation of your question, an expander ball causes runout in the final loaded round. An expander mandrel does not. Now people sometimes fuck around with the decapping assembly and get good concentricity but it’s just easier to break up the process and go to a mandrel.

 

[zaprosper]

A few of the differences are:

1. Being able to control final neck tension
2. Being able to control how much your brass is being worked. This varies from die to die, but generally FL sizing dies overwork the brass so it works with the many many different brass brands....they vary from thick to thin neck walls.

A FL sizing die squeezes that neck WAY down then the button rips it back open on the down strike pulling it out of the case...

With a proper mandrel setup....you use a bushing/FL bushing die or honed FL sizing die, both with the button removed...the honed die or selected bushing only squeezes the neck down to .004 under final neck diameter.. then step 2, you run that brass into your turning mandrel or specific mandrel for your needs to open the neck back up .002 for a final neck tension of .002....

This works the brass very little, pushes inconsistencies to the outside, makes runout virtually non-existent and assists in very low SD's and accuracy.

If you want to test this....take a fired case and measure the outside neck diameter and write that number down, then take your FL sizing die, remove the entirw expander button rod...size your case...meause your squeezed down outside neck diameter and write that number down, now put the rod back in and size your brass one last time, now measure the outside neck.diameter again.. you can see how much the brass is being worked by how much its being reduced in size then how much its being opened back up...

This is the very reason we use honed FL dies or bushing dies with bushing sizes specific to our chamber and brass then use specific mandrels. I have multiple Forster honed FL sizing dies for specific brass/chamber combos....example..I have 1 Forster FL honed sizing die specific to Lapua 223 brass and my 26" Krieger 223 Wylde/Bighorn TL3 bolt gun...i have another Forster FL sizing die honed specific to LC 5.56 brass for my 20" Krieger precision AR..... they are each setup in their own dedicated 550c toolhead and labeled as such.. same goes for 6.5cm AR, 6.5cm bolt, 6br, 6.5x47L, 220TB, 224V.....

I do all this on a 550C in one pass...

Whidden makes expander buttons of various sizes to use with the sizing dies, but I have never tried them personally. I have heard some people like to control the final neck size with them and avoid a mandrel. I currently use a Whidden bushing die on my precision rifles so that I can control sizing and avoid overworking. If needed, i use the provided expander button in the die to expand the necks back out. It sounds like it may be worthwhile to separate the expanding step separately using a mandrel. This can be cumbersome on a single stage press and I might need to invest in a decent progressive press so that the operation is done separate without adding time to reloading. I think part of my previous question to DThomas may have been lost in quote marks (regarding confirming final neck sizes).
I have checked the working of brass previously in my 25-06 hunting rifle where I use RCBS dies and it is ridiculous how much it works the brass. I haven't bought an RCBS die since then. I am hesitant to get any non-bushing dies now as It could be a crap shoot how much it sizes the brass down. I know a donut is more likely to form with a bushing die, but I avoid that with seating depth usually.
I have heard the honed dies work great, but I don't know of someone in Canada Land that does it and shipping stuff back and forth to the US can be a PITA.

 

[zaprosper]

To answer the most recent variation of your question, an expander ball causes runout in the final loaded round. An expander mandrel does not. Now people sometimes fuck around with the decapping assembly and get good concentricity but it’s just easier to break up the process and go to a mandrel.

That makes sense that runout could be a crapshoot with the expander button. I know Forster runs the button higher in the die to avoid this problem, but I haven't had the privilege of using a Forster die. In the Whidden die it does sit quite low and I could see the rod assembly potentially introducing runout. I haven't ever bothered with checking runout as I have been told that it doesn't have much affect on accuracy as long as it isn't ridiculously large, but for all I know I have excessive runout.

 

[padom]

That makes sense that runout could be a crapshoot with the expander button. I know Forster runs the button higher in the die to avoid this problem, but I haven't had the privilege of using a Forster die. In the Whidden die it does sit quite low and I could see the rod assembly potentially introducing runout. I haven't ever bothered with checking runout as I have been told that it doesn't have much affect on accuracy as long as it isn't ridiculously large, but for all I know I have excessive runout.

Rule of thumb is .003-.005" runout is acceptable.

With my above noted sizing process I see .0005 or less TIR. My SD's are less than 5..

 

[zaprosper]

So, if an expander button is used and run out is considered in the "acceptable range" and the proper steps are made to ensure brass isn't overworked, would there be any difference between the mandrel and button?

 

[padom]

So, if an expander button is used and run out is considered in the "acceptable range" and the proper steps are made to ensure brass isn't overworked, would there be any difference between the mandrel and button?

Only you, your use, your range and your target can answer that question

 

[b2lee]

I can only give my personal experiences.. First, let me say, I'm one of the few individuals that actually enjoys my time in the reloading room. I will spend all day there if I was able. I prep my brass with the care of a newborn royal baby. What I have found that works best for me and my gun is...and a lot of this is personal preference on ergonomics and setup.....but I prefer using a K&M Arbor Press with the Standard Force Pack, LE Wilson Neck Sizing die, a Sinclair/Wilson Micrometer seating die.....and a Sinclair neck mandrel die with a carbide -0.002 mandrel.

I like the feel of the brass going into neck die....I like the feel of the neck mandrel...and I can tell if a piece of brass was accidentally not annealed....just by difference in feel.....and I LOVE the butter smoothness of the bullet seating die after the brass has been through the neck mandrel. I mean butter smooth. I had a 20 shot string on the MagnetoSpeedV3 last week with an SD of 3.2....I'll take it.

 

[chadrp]

So, if an expander button is used and run out is considered in the "acceptable range" and the proper steps are made to ensure brass isn't overworked, would there be any difference between the mandrel and button?

One other benefit to using a mandrel vs the expander ball that I heard is that the mandrel is expanding as its being pushed down into the case where the shoulder has the most strength. When the expander ball is expanding is on the upstroke and it could potentially pull out the headspace of the shoulder that you just put into it with a full length sizing die. Forster says that their FL sizing die still supports the shoulder while expanding so that is not an issue but I've never used one so no experience with it other than what they told me when diagnosing a seater stem issue.

 

[spife7980]

One other benefit to using a mandrel vs the expander ball that I heard is that the mandrel is expanding as its being pushed down into the case where the shoulder has the most strength. When the expander ball is expanding is on the upstroke and it could potentially pull out the headspace of the shoulder that you just put into it with a full length sizing die. Forster says that their FL sizing die still supports the shoulder while expanding so that is not an issue but I've never used one so no experience with it other than what they told me when diagnosing a seater stem issue.

I dont think its the shoulder thats getting supported on extraction, its the neck. Once that shoulder is moved away from the die body at all its free.
Forster puts there expander up high so that when you start to extract the brass the expander starts to enter the base of the neck on its way out while the top of the case neck is still being held by the bottom of the dies neck. And its that top of the case neck still being held when it starts on its way out that helps to ensure the ball enters straight.

My mental reasoning for the benefit of a mandrel over an expadner ball is that brass has more compressive strength than tensile strength so the brass is less likely to deform under the mandrel pressure going down/having to compress the case wall material below it to go off center than when you use an expander ball and pull the neck up away from the rest of the case and stretch on the case walls.

 

[ZiaHunter]

If you are shooting for score such as in bench rest or F Class , OCD reloading is pretty much a given if you want to compete. Case preparation and bullet uniformity is critical as well as charge weights. Neck turn all my brass and never use an expander mandrel in custom dies. Bullets sorted, trimmed and pointed. Charges weighed to the kernal and seated with a chamber die on a hydro press. They are sorted by seating pressure with those outside a given tolerance used for sighters and not for score.

Frankly though I don't see much point in doing so for a 338LM which you are banging steel. Good case prep which provides consistent neck tension and accurate charge weights is all you need. SD's less than 10 and you will be GTG. Shoot both a 338LM and 375 and although I try t be precise I can't justify the time I spend reloading for F CLass.

 

[Steel head]

If you are shooting for score such as in bench rest or F Class , OCD reloading is pretty much a given if you want to compete. Case preparation and bullet uniformity is critical as well as charge weights. Neck turn all my brass and never use an expander mandrel in custom dies. Bullets sorted, trimmed and pointed. Charges weighed to the kernal and seated with a chamber die on a hydro press. They are sorted by seating pressure with those outside a given tolerance used for sighters and not for score.

Frankly though I don't see much point in doing so for a 338LM which you are banging steel. Good case prep which provides consistent neck tension and accurate charge weights is all you need. SD's less than 10 and you will be GTG. Shoot both a 338LM and 375 and although I try t be precise I can't justify the time I spend reloading for F CLass.

Very reasonable answer in my opinion.

 

[zaprosper]

If you are shooting for score such as in bench rest or F Class , OCD reloading is pretty much a given if you want to compete. Case preparation and bullet uniformity is critical as well as charge weights. Neck turn all my brass and never use an expander mandrel in custom dies. Bullets sorted, trimmed and pointed. Charges weighed to the kernal and seated with a chamber die on a hydro press. They are sorted by seating pressure with those outside a given tolerance used for sighters and not for score.

Frankly though I don't see much point in doing so for a 338LM which you are banging steel. Good case prep which provides consistent neck tension and accurate charge weights is all you need. SD's less than 10 and you will be GTG. Shoot both a 338LM and 375 and although I try t be precise I can't justify the time I spend reloading for F CLass.

Definitely are people like that. Best F class shooter I know doesn't do any of that. Can try do every bit you can to make the rifle more accurate, but still comes down to the capability of the shooter.

 

[zaprosper]

One other benefit to using a mandrel vs the expander ball that I heard is that the mandrel is expanding as its being pushed down into the case where the shoulder has the most strength. When the expander ball is expanding is on the upstroke and it could potentially pull out the headspace of the shoulder that you just put into it with a full length sizing die. Forster says that their FL sizing die still supports the shoulder while expanding so that is not an issue but I've never used one so no experience with it other than what they told me when diagnosing a seater stem issue.

One of these days I'll try out a set of Forster dies. If they sold the sizing die with the micrometer seater I would already own a set or two.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Definitely are people like that. Best F class shooter I know doesn't do any of that. Can try do every bit you can to make the rifle more accurate, but still comes down to the capability of the shooter.

The best F class shooter you know doesn’t use mandrels, make sure his Bullets are extremely low ES regarding their BC, or turn necks??

 

[zaprosper]

Uses mandrels yes, no to the bullet pointing believe it or not. I believe he turns necks on his competition rifle, doesn't bother on anything else. Annealing is the one thing he considers to be more important than turning necks.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Uses mandrels yes, no to the bullet pointing believe it or not. I believe he turns necks on his competition rifle, doesn't bother on anything else. Annealing is the one thing he considers to be more important than turning necks.

Bullet pointing is only needed if Bullets have issues with large ES in their BC. Annealing is standard for most everyone now.

If he’s not putting in the time to get his ammo shooting as good as possible, he won’t be able to really compete nationally. Those guys have it down to a science. It doesn’t have to take a long time. But if you’re not going through the steps, you’re leaving points on the table with say you’re holding two, three, or four rings and you pick up an X instead of a 10 because your ammo hammers.

 

[zaprosper]

I'll have to confirm next time I talk to him exactly what his process was, if he sorted bullets or not. He has competed nationally, Canada though, not US.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Definitely are people like that. Best F class shooter I know doesn't do any of that. Can try do every bit you can to make the rifle more accurate, but still comes down to the capability of the shooter.

Well I shoot with a bunch of High Masters and some of the best F Class shooters in the country as well as one gentleman who has won just about every competition in both the US and internationally and shoots for both team USA and Berger. He was my mentor when I first started shooting F Class and shoot with him every month. We all pretty much follow the same reloading process with a few individual tweaks here and there. No doubt what separates the HM from the rest of the classifications is the ability to read the wind but without a rifle and ammo that is capable of sub .5 MOA at 1,000 you are out of the game. In the 600 yard game today it doesn't come down to dropping a point or two its about x counts since many clean the targets.

 

[Diabolus]

This turned into such a great thread, thanks for everyone participation. I plan on opening another thread that will focus on another part of the reloading process and once all said and done, I am going to document my process and hopefully we can all review it and chime in and come up with a collaboration on the best way to reload for precision and accuracy.

I love reloading just like all of you, it's a lot of fun.

 

[Steel head]

Some things that really helped me.

1-Neck turning, it’s really helpful even with excellent brass.
It is also is nice for lazy Reloaders like me As I can skip other steps and still get good results easily.

2-I‘ve cheap skimped on bullets for years but for serious competition or ELR I advice you don’t.
The new Berger tipped LRHT bullets are legit!

3-Anneal!
Brass lasts longer, you get more consistent sizing, better extreme spreads and less surprises.

I use a lee collet for setting the neck tension, maybe not up to mandrels level but really close.

4-Super clean brass is pretry,,,,,but wasted effort in my opinion.
Wipe it off, lightly brush the necks and load it.
I sectioned a 260 case with 42 firings, carbon build up was minimal, same speed with same load for dozens of firings.
I lightly tumbled that lot of brass only 3-4 times in it’s life.

It’s amazing what you can get away with with decent brass, process, bullets and load development.

 

[ofelas]

I reload, but don't consider myself anything beyond "competent enough for my needs", as I generally hit stuff I aim at.

I've never seen the technicalities of why I use honed Forster FL dies explained so well, as well as other stuff like mandrels etc (which I don't use).

Props to the easily understood explanations by the guys in this thread.

 

[Maddman]

Learned a lot from this thread... thanks to all who responded constructively!

Follow-up question open to anyone who can assist... Where would I go for a comprehensive list of the ABSOLUTE best equipment and setup for ELR shooting if money were no object? R&D level extreme equipment...?

 

[daylate]

One of these days I'll try out a set of Forster dies. If they sold the sizing die with the micrometer seater I would already own a set or two.

They do or did anyway I have a few sets that came with both and a case

 

[Gustav7]

Learned a lot from this thread... thanks to all who responded constructively!

Follow-up question open to anyone who can assist... Where would I go for a comprehensive list of the ABSOLUTE best equipment and setup for ELR shooting if money were no object? R&D level extreme equipment...?

I would maybe pose this question either as its own thread, or on the ELR threads.

Some of that is going to be subjective, but I know for powder throwing, the Autotrickler/AD fx120 is going to be on the top of the lists. The Primal Rights CPS primer system would be up there. AMP annealing.

 

[want2learn]

i can only relate from personal practical / anecdotal experience that ever since i added an expander mandril (Porter) and removed the expander ball from my full length sizing die i've noted an improvement evident in my targets.

either that or perhaps i'm getting a little better executing the fundamentals?

 

[Sirshredalot]

Another perspective(sorry if already mentioned, i read half the thread then replied).

Im not a very good shooter yet, so i wanted my loads to be as precise as possible to eliminate as many factors as possible besides the shooter.

I bought better equipment, included more processes, and scrutinized my component selection to optimize my practice...so i can be sure the flyer was me...and not the load.

High end gear is usually worth it, has better resale, and one can grow into it when/if the time comes.

$.02