Precision Reloading - Progressive Press

[tylerw02]

After quite the hiatus from precision rifle shooting, I plan to start up again—-though I will be much shorter on time, thus I’m looking for ways to speed up my reloading process to do so. One potential way to do so is to load my ammunition on a progressive press.

I’m curious what experience forum members have with loading precision ammo on a progressive press. What were the results in terms of accuracy, precision, and runout? What equipment did you utilize? How did it compare to using a single stage press? Walk me through your process.

I have been experiencing and have quickly found selecting the proper dies is imperative. Additionally, I’ve learned that process and technique matter. Thus far I’ve not spun any rounds to see what they gauge. I’m considering making some changes to see what my results are. I believe that progressive press reloading is an overlooked and underutilized process.

 

[wpierce]

I’m also interested in this. I’ve been considering getting the funnel for my Dillon 550 and using my chargemaster to dispense charges for more precise ammo.

 

[Sig Marine]

All of my reloading has been done on a single stage press. Recently, I needed to load for a rifle using a higher volume of ammunition so I opted to funnel the Dillon 550 to see if it was a viable alternative. I have never checked runout on any of my loads as they either shoot or they don’t. Honestly, ES and SD were as good and I could not see a difference downrange between the ammunition I load on the single vs progressive press.

 

[padom]

This has been covered multiple times. A quick search brings up multiple threads on this very topic answering everything you have asked. Tips, tricks, what modifications, Dillon 550, Dillon 650, what type of accuracy, what kind of runout....

The short answer, many of us do it and get equal or better runout than a Co-Ax or similar single stage but can process brass and load rounds faster. Precision bolt gun only and some precision AR, Dillon 550 is what you want, precision semiauto, plinking ammo and pistol, 650 is what you want.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/precision-loading-with-a-dillon-650-who’s-done-it.6896697/#post-7166132

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...s-single-or-progressive.6892573/#post-7122609

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ding-setup-from-scratch.6898696/#post-7198939

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Years ago I tried it with a Dillon 550 and Whidden tool heads and had very poor results. Not matter what I tried I got a lot more runout than what I could achieve with a good single stage.

I decided to give it another shot based on the results others were having, and needing to cut down loading time and simplify the process. This time I went the Dillon 650 route with Uniquetek toolheads which are Whidden floating heads with their own clamps installed. This setup works and it works great. The runout I'm getting is barely detectable on a concentricity gauge over what I get with a Co-Ax, and absolutely undetectable on targets. Runout averages about .001-.0015" which is excellent.

I have a Mighty Armory decapping die setup on a standard toolhead that I run through the machine to deprime. I SS tumble after that, and then I lube with a lanolin/alcohol mix and run it through head 1 for whichever caliber I'm doing. The first floating station has a FL sizing die, and the second has a sinclair expander mandrel. After that's it's trimmed on a Giraud, and then it gets SS tumbled again for about 5 minutes just to remove the lube and any brass shavings from trimming.

Then toolhead 2 goes in. Station 1 I have another Sinclair expander die but I remove the mandrel for processed brass as it's only used on head 2 when loading on new brass. Station 2 is primer only, station 3 is a Dillon powder die with a Area419 funnel adaptor, and station 4 (the other floating die) is a Redding competition seater.

This process is so fast and simple it's unreal, even going slow and double checking everything. The cost is pretty significant vs the cost of a great single stage like the Co-Ax, but for me it was an investment to save time.

The best advice I can give you as someone who owns both the 550 and 650 is to get the 650 from the start. The auto index feature really makes things faster and easier. The 650 is also setup to run a case feeder out of the box, and has a better priming system. When you're talking about $160 worth of toolheads per caliber, plus conversion kits and stuff, the cost difference in the two systems is insignificant.

 

[Srikaleak]

Damnit, I really wanted to do the 550 route. Is the move to 650 really that significant?

 

[SkyScrapin]

@redneckbmxer24 said it best.

The only difference for me is, I am testing reloads with unprocessed (fired) brass without the extra steps of stainless tumbling. Basically I'm wiping dirty necks and leaving inside of the cases suited for lubricity. I have dehydrators to dry brass off, but for me, I'm trying to minimize total time spent reloading, whether it involves me being present or not. If sizing lube needs to be quickly removed, a tumble in corn cob works fine.

 

[padom]

Damnit, I really wanted to do the 550 route. Is the move to 650 really that significant?

If you want the 550 get the 550. Many of us are running a 550 or both a 550 and 650. You loose nothing in accuracy department going with a 550. I personally run both. I find the 550 a much better option for precision bolt gun loading. I like the ability to control advancing the cases manually on the 550. My runout on both my 550 and 650 are exactly the same. .001 TIR max with actual run out of .0005 or less. Most people dont realize if they measure run out on a concentricity gauage thats your TIR (Total Induced Runout), your actual run out is half that.

I am using Uniquetek Clamp kits on both my 550 and 650. Whidden floating die toolheads on both the 550 and 650. For all calibers except pistol calibers im using Forster Ultra Micrometer seating dies and Forster FL sizing dies with expander mandrels for setting final neck tension. I find the 550 does a better job of properly setting primer depth in bolt gun brass (Lapua 6.5x47L, Lapua 223rem) than my 650.

I run a Area419 funnel on my 550 with a A&D Fx120i/Autotrickler setup for my 550.

 

[b6graham]

i do a combo of both.

650 with casefeeder. decap, size, mandrel. tumble. hand prime. co-ax for seating

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Damnit, I really wanted to do the 550 route. Is the move to 650 really that significant?

I find the added step of advancing the 550 to be too much going on for me and I end up making a mess with powder from time to time when I double charge a case. Stupid I know, but I've never done it on the 650 and I've also never not charged a case on the 650.

I really like the 650's primer system over the 550 too. The 650 also has more working room in the opening which I find nice. If you want to crank out some 223 trainer or gas gun rounds with a easy metering powder, there is no contest.

Basically you spend $150 more up front (less than the cost of two Uniquetek heads), and you gain the advantages of the 650 and give up nothing to the 550.

 

[padom]

I find the added step of advancing the 550 to be too much going on for me and I end up making a mess with powder from time to time when I double charge a case. Stupid I know, but I've never done it on the 650 and I've also never not charged a case on the 650.

I really like the 650's primer system over the 550 too. The 650 also has more working room in the opening which I find nice. If you want to crank out some 223 trainer or gas gun rounds with a easy metering powder, there is no contest.

Basically you spend $150 more up front (less than the cost of two Uniquetek heads), and you gain the advantages of the 650 and give up nothing to the 550.

While I dont disagree with what you've said, let's be honest here. Cost difference is not simply $150....for the base press, yes. But to take full advantage of the benefits of a 650 you have case feeder, toolheads cost more, conversion kits cost more, multiple case feed plates for different calibers, biggest benefit and time saver is the RT1500 trimmer and trim dies. Add this stuff up and your $1000's more. Ask me how I know...

If your not going to buy the case feeder why even get the 650? RT1500 trimmer is the greatest upgrade I've made. Converting 223 to 300blk, trimming 223, 6.5cm. No trimming somewhere else in another step. Just pull the handle

 

[redneckbmxer24]

While I dont disagree with what you've said, let's be honest here. Cost difference is not simply $150....for the base press, yes. But to take full advantage of the benefits of a 650 you have case feeder, toolheads cost more, conversion kits cost more, multiple case feed plates for different calibers, biggest benefit and time saver is the RT1500 trimmer and trim dies. Add this stuff up and your $1000's more. Ask me how I know...

The difference in cost is minimal on toolhead and conversion kits too. You don't HAVE to run the case feeder on the 650 just like you don't have to run it on the 550. I find just using the tube and loading it up with brass every 4-5 rounds is still significantly faster/easier than inserting a case on the 550 each time. If you do get the case feeder for the 550 which IMO anyone looking to load on a Dillon to speed up the process should, you still have to buy all the different case feed plates, and the case feeder costs more for the 550 and doesn't run as smooth as it does for the 650.

The Dillon trimmer sucks compared to a Giraud and to me with the accurate neck length I get with the Giraud it's worth doing it in a separate step. It's an advantage the 650 has which I simply will not use.

The cost difference on the two press kits is $150, and the case feeder for the 650 is $40 less so thats $110 difference. Yes the 550 conversion kit is cheaper but by time you add the case feeder parts for each caliber to the 550 kits which the 650 kits come with, it's a wash and may even end up being cheaper for the 650 kits. The Uniquetek toolheads are only $5 more for the 650, that's nothing in the grand scheme of things. $150 for two per caliber or $160 for two per caliber.

At the $110 cost difference between the two after case feeder offset you'd have to buy 178 toolheads to make a $1000 difference in cost.

 

[padom]

What are you talking about? There is no rifle caliber case feeder for the Dillon 550....Only pistol caliber case feeder. .45 colt is the tallest case that will fit. We are talking about rifle cartridges here.

A 650 to load rifle cases without the case feeder is a 550 with another station. You may find your way fast, but a 650 with a case feeder is super fast and way faster than you can load them into the tube by hand.

The dillon RT1500 trimmer is as accurate as the Giraud or any other trimmer with the toolhead clamp kit. I have both trimmers, I can run as many as you want side by side and show you how the lengths are identical. Only difference is the Dillon doesnt chamfer/debur. But the Dillon trims cases WAY faster than you can manually grab, push and hold each case into the Giraud. I may be picky but I dont like how deep a chamfer the Giraud trimmer puts on the cases and I have read many others here on the Hide talk about this very issue as well. Ive tried every adjustment out there to minimize that deep chamfer to no avail. It collects dust to say the least. To each their own.

Your cost differences are not correct because as noted above, there isnt a case feeder for rifle cases for a 550. So your looking at a difference in cost of $240+shipping for the base case feeder alone. Again, no case feeder parts for the 550....

Way more than $110 cost difference. I have both with every part made for both with what 15+ toolheads for the 650 and 10 or more for the 550. I know what actual costs are and they arent as you noted above.

 

[padom]

A dillon 550 shipped to your door ready to load 223 and 6.5cm (minus dies) is $580.34 directly from Dillon...

A Dillon 650 with case feeder shipped to your door ready to load 223 rem and 6.5cm (minus dies) is $1006.86

Both of these setups include 2 toolheads and both caliber conversion kits. No tools, strong mounts, etc. All of that is additional

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I was under the impression that there were rifle plates available for the 550 case feeder but I guess not. Regardless, the case feeder is an option that you aren't required to purchase, but it's an option on the 650 and is very nice.

So you have:

$158 more for the 650
$5 more per Uniqetek toolhead
$32 more per caliber conversion

When we're talking about premium loading machines that are not cheap any way you slice it, and thousands of dollars wrapped up into reloading equipment, the cost differences is small potatoes. You also get the ability to run auto casefeed (foolish not to) if you choose, and the trimmer.

If you purchase a 550 for rifle and then buy a 650 down the road to load other stuff faster, then a 650 from the start would absolutely be more cost effective.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

A dillon 550 shipped to your door ready to load 223 and 6.5cm (minus dies) is $580.34 directly from Dillon...

A Dillon 650 with case feeder shipped to your door ready to load 223 rem and 6.5cm (minus dies) is $1006.86

Both of these setups include 2 toolheads and both caliber conversion kits. No tools, strong mounts, etc. All of that is additional

What? A 650 with one conversion is $589.95 and to add the 6.5 Creedmoor conversion is $79.95. How are you coming up with $1006.68? Yes there's shipping but that's a huge difference.

 

[padom]

I'm not sure your even reading my posts. Read it again.... hint. Casefeeder

 

[padom]

I was under the impression that there were rifle plates available for the 550 case feeder but I guess not. Regardless, the case feeder is an option that you aren't required to purchase, but it's an option on the 650 and is very nice.

So you have:

$158 more for the 650
$5 more per Uniqetek toolhead
$32 more per caliber conversion

When we're talking about premium loading machines that are not cheap any way you slice it, and thousands of dollars wrapped up into reloading equipment, the cost differences is small potatoes. You also get the ability to run auto casefeed (foolish not to) if you choose, and the trimmer.

If you purchase a 550 for rifle and then buy a 650 down the road to load other stuff faster, then a 650 from the start would absolutely be more cost effective.

I dont disagree and is the exact approach I took. I bought my loaded 650 first. 1.5yr later bought a loaded 550.. I find the 550 much easier for bolt gun brass. To each their own

 

[Sheldon N]

Damnit, I really wanted to do the 550 route. Is the move to 650 really that significant?

I have a 550, 650 and 1050 now. For precision rifle the 550 is fine IMO. Going to a real bulk process or loading for a trainer the 650 would be a nice step up.

As far as speed improvements on a 550 vs 650, I would say that for sizing/brass prep alone the 550 takes about 8 minutes to run 100 pieces of brass. You could knock off maybe 40-50% of that time by going to an auto index with a case feeder. So you're looking at maybe a time savings of 40 minutes per 1000 cases going to a 650.

You would see that same improvement for loading ammo progressively with a Dillon thrower. Loading precision rounds where you pour powder in a funnel the bottleneck in time is really the powder weighing process so the differential between a 550 and 650 isn't as big there. You still save maybe 40 minutes/1000 cases for not having to feed and index the brass, but the difference is more like 5 hours vs 6 hours instead of a 50% improvement.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm not sure your even reading my posts. Read it again.... hint. Casefeeder

I read your post quite clear, you're not reading mine. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY AND USE THE CASE FEEDER. It's an option, you act like the machine is a paperweight without it and you must use it.

Adding it to the price of the machine to up the price is apples to oranges, you're talking about a feature that the 550 can't even do according to you.

Compare them equally, to get the as similar machines as possible function wise.

$479.95 for the 550C + 1 more conversion
$669.90 for the 650 + 1 more conversion.

Thats $189.95 difference, a far cry from the nearly double price you quoted by adding extra options on the 650. Shipping you will pay on either machine, or you can order through grafs and get free shipping. They also have some machines on clearance with various conversions, that's where I picked up a second 650 a couple months back for $549.99 shipped.

 

[padom]

First you quote prices with case feeders on both when the 550 doesnt even have a rifle case feeder. Now your screaming who needs a case feeder.

Bottom line is, both presses produce vary accurate ammo if setup properly regardless if your 550 didnt. 650 is much faster with a case feeder, fact.

 

[Srikaleak]

So just in summation:
650 positives
+ auto indexing
+ rifle case capable case feeder
+ cost parity with 550c sans case feeder
+ final cartridge parity with what 550c produces
+ can us dillon trimmer

650 negatives
- costs with case feeder much larger
- costs for parts marginally more than 550c

If you just want fast reloading for your bolt action then go 550c and save some money

If you plan on loading plinking ammo (rifle/pistol) on top of producing precision ammo, invest in 650xl.

Looks like I'll be saving up another 6-8 months for 650xl (I'm gonna load bulk and defensive 9mm, bulk semi precision 6.5 Grendel, precision 6.5 Creedmoor)

 

[SkyScrapin]

Looks like I'll be saving up another 6-8 months for 650xl (I'm gonna load bulk and defensive 9mm, bulk semi precision 6.5 Grendel, precision 6.5 Creedmoor)

Good choice. If you're loading any Lake City brass, unprocessed, get a SwageIt kit. I just swapped my 650 from .308 large primer to .223 small primer and swaged 400 pieces of brass without a case feeder - 1 hour from start to finish, but I was in no hurry.

 

[Sheldon N]

Running the brass thru the machine for a single function is no advantage and using a toolhead for a singular function is slow and expensive.

I have found that feeding and cycling brass on Dillon 550 is about 25% faster than feeding and cycling brass on a single stage, even if you're only running one operation on it.

Heck, I've used the 1050 to just prime brass and nothing else. Smoking fast!

 

[Shadow knows]

Wonder if the OP’er just gave up due to the 550/650 price battle?

 

[Shadow knows]

FWIW to the OP, I started with a single stage Hornady and got a progressive Hornady. Gave the single stage to a buddy who was trying hard to get into shooting but has no spare cash. Ran the Hornady up to about last Dec and got a XL650. Sold the Hornady progressive and have been running the XL650 which has been a wet dream every time. Fact is I just loaded 357 sig tonight, about 350 rounds.
I load a few rifles but need about 5 more shell plates. At $40/ea I am thinking about getting a rockchucker since I alreader have the case holders, it would be cheaper. Those 5 plates I need I run my chargemaster on those loads anyway so I am single loading anyway.

I got the 650 cause I shoot a lot of pistols and seem to be shooting 223 a lot lately so it works great for me. YMMV.

 

[Strykervet]

Damnit, I really wanted to do the 550 route. Is the move to 650 really that significant?

650 is the titties. The only way I'd go with a 1050 is if I planned on loading and belting used 5.56 and 7.62 LC brass. It'll swage pockets, the 650 won't. Otherwise the 650 is the best --toolheads cost less than 1050 and it just does more than the 550. The powder measures work well IF you're using fine powder, kinda like a Chargemaster I guess.

It just cranks out ammo, I wish I'd gotten one a long time ago. It also looks more complicated than it is, it's actually a very well thought out and simple machine.

Even if you only use it for brass prep, it's probably still worth it. The auto trimmer is badass and the trimmer dies are actually FL sizing dies, so if you use an expander mandrel after it, you won't need to use a sizing die. Or use your own dies and back off the trimmer die. The brass dispenser is really nice too. That roller handle is worth it and I'd get the aluminum bullet tray too. I had to use their stand just to mount it right and get it the right height. Everything is solid, I've got it mounted to one helluva "bench" if you wanna call it that, and nothing moves.

Definitely want the powder check if you plan on spitting 'em out. With fine powders the dispensers are generally +_.1gr. They won't dispense stick powders and you're wasting time trying to make it do so. I have to use a Chargemaster for that and it slows everything down quite a bit. Can do 100rds. per hour I guess with Chargemaster and more like 400+ if I'm just cranking out M855.

If you need to military swage brass, Dillon makes the best swager too. I attached it to a piece of L shaped scrap 2x4 screwed together and put it in the vice for swaging; can set it up comfortable that way.

 

[scotharr]

Here you go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmk8tv8yrk7vii7/12.23.15-Dillon-Prometheus-Article.pdf?dl=0

 

[Greg Langelius *]

550 here, I don't have anything in the powder station, I just remove the button, and start the cycle with presized and preprimed brass.

I weigh the charge with the RCBS Chargemaster Lite trickling into the Powder Pal tray, dump the charge into a handheld case, insert the case at the seating station, seat the bullet, advance the base plate, and do it again, and again...

By the time the bullet is seated and I pick up the next case, the next charge is waiting.

Greg