Does anyone on the Hide use a progressive to load precision (moa to sub moa) ammunition for training, matches, etc? I am having an allergic reaction to $1+ per round for FGMM/Black Hills Match/LC 173 after my last 5 day range outing and 1200 rounds sent down range. I have even less a desire to spend 1200 minutes on a single stage press operation for the same.
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Precision Reloads from a Dillon RL550/650?
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I do for working up loads but I use it as one would use a single stage.
Decap, resize, prime 100 at a time using only that section of the press.
Then using the powder section I add a charge but weigh each one at a time to ensure they are accurate.
Once the correct amount of powder is in a case I seat the bullet, measure, and reset deeper if needed.
They start over charging and weighing the next round.
Decap, resize, prime 100 at a time using only that section of the press.
Then using the powder section I add a charge but weigh each one at a time to ensure they are accurate.
Once the correct amount of powder is in a case I seat the bullet, measure, and reset deeper if needed.
They start over charging and weighing the next round.
I load all my match ammo on a 550. Floating tool heads, still dropping powder by hand (for now), I prime on the press. Ammo comes off that press just as good as it comes off the Co-ax. John Whidden and David Tubb load all there match ammo on a 550/650.
i load all my stuff on a 650...for my calibers not running 8208 xbr or ball powder, i throw with 2 chargemasters
for 308, i run the dillon powder drop with 8208...SD for 10 rounds when i checked it was 11 fps...ive shot that ammo in 3 matches so far this year (each with 30-55 people)...finished 1st, 4th, tied for 2nd...its easily good enough to win and do well with
if you have more confidence in your shooting ability than doubt in your load...loading on a dillon is no big deal
if youre looking to move into bench rest or f class where lots of shooter error is removed by shooting from 1 position/prone/bench, it likely wont work out as well
for 308, i run the dillon powder drop with 8208...SD for 10 rounds when i checked it was 11 fps...ive shot that ammo in 3 matches so far this year (each with 30-55 people)...finished 1st, 4th, tied for 2nd...its easily good enough to win and do well with
if you have more confidence in your shooting ability than doubt in your load...loading on a dillon is no big deal
if youre looking to move into bench rest or f class where lots of shooter error is removed by shooting from 1 position/prone/bench, it likely wont work out as well
I've moved to loading my precision rifle ammo on the Dillon 550. I use a two toolhead approach. One for brass prep (deprime die, full length bushing die, expander mandrel), tumble to clean off the lube, then another toolhead for loading (deprime die to clear flash hole of any media, then prime, second die for powder charge, third is bullet seating micrometer die). The powder charge I can swap back and forth from a manual funnel for precision weighed charges or the standard Dillon thrower, without having to make die adjustments. Thrown charges do great, XBR8208 meters roughly +/- 0.1gr and my last load with thrown charges held an SD of 10 across a string of 10 cases, and shot 1/2 MOA.
Properly setup, a Dillon press can produce 1/4 moa ammo. Sizing and seating, using floating toolheads is a great route to take. As good or better than a single stage. The priming assembly can be easily modified to seat primers deep enough and is very consistent. The Dillon powder dispenser is pretty accurate, especially using smaller kernel powders. Even the large stick powders measure pretty accurately, they're just not always consistent. Maybe one in 10 will be way off with 4350 type powders.
I've gone back and forth between using one and two toolheads per caliber. If you use Hornady one shot you can size and prime in station one, drop your powder in station two, weigh your charge, then seat in station three.
I've gone back and forth between using one and two toolheads per caliber. If you use Hornady one shot you can size and prime in station one, drop your powder in station two, weigh your charge, then seat in station three.
What do you mean by "drop powder in station two" then "weigh your charge." Are you dumping powder from the Dillon dispenser and then removing the case and pouring the powder onto a scale to verify the weight (then trickling)? Then pouring back into the case and replacing on the press?
I just started loading rifle and I already had a 550 so, that's what I'm using. I'm working up a load so I'm jamming my bullets for now and I'm getting .6-.8 MOA groups. About the same as what I get with Hornady Match ammo. The SD is down to 2.4 for 5 shot groups though. Factory was 15 sd average and up to 30 max. I use a chargemaster and the dillon funnel in station 2. I also use two tool heads, one for depriming, sizing, and a mandrel die. The other tool head is for powder and bullet seating. Trimming is done off press, as well as chamfer, deburring, and primer clean up. The lyman case prep center makes that pretty quick.
I use the Dillon 550 for all my ammo and it rocks! Shaves lots of time the lady says wow ur done already!?!? My process goes like this... 1. Clean brass 2. Resize on coax 3. Clean lube off 4. Prime, powder, seat on Dillon using rcbs charge master dispenser
last I chronoed 5 shots the es was 8 rifle shoots amazing
last I chronoed 5 shots the es was 8 rifle shoots amazing
Question about the 550. I hear about these floating tool heads, and Im wondering. Would using a Hornady Bushing set on a standard tool head work? Or is the whidden toolhead somehow better? Only reason I ask is that I already have the lock n load bushings for all my dies and was just curious. If not, no big deal, sell em and buy the whidden
Whidden toolheads are great, but it's very easy to make your own using your existing Dillon tool heads.
Right now I'm using plain old o-rings to float my dies in a standard Dillon toolhead. There seems to be a sweet spot to get the die to stay in place and still be able to free float. The lock ring needs to make light contact with the o-ring so that it doesn't rotate, but you can't crank it down too tight or the die doesn't float well. Takes a bit of a combination of moving the die in the lock ring and tightening down on the o-ring so that the tension on the o-ring is in a good spot and the die position is also correct. I was just doing some testing/measuring as part of die setup and ran 5 cases through a full length bushing die and expander mandrel toolhead, final runout was right between 1 and 1.5 thou.
That's interesting. I never thought of doing it that way but it sounds pretty clever. Thanks!
What's the actual difference between a toolhead from Whidden and the ones I have from Dillon?
And can I use the Whidden free float lock rings on the Dillon toolhead and I'll have the same free float benefit as I would from a full free float kit from Whidden?
And can I use the Whidden free float lock rings on the Dillon toolhead and I'll have the same free float benefit as I would from a full free float kit from Whidden?
Anything special you do to keep the powder consistent? I know certain powders just suck in a Dillon, but other than that do you use anything or have any tricks? Only thing I've done was add one of those powder baffles.
Only question I had was why an expander mandrel after the FL bushing die? That's working the neck tension twice within 2 steps?
The Whidden tool heads have the thread diameter pushed to the widest out of the band to add some more availability of wiggle in there. I have taken some factory Dillon tool heads and added the pinned lock ring in there. There is not as much wiggle in the Dillon tool heads, for that caliber I was still producing really good ammo.
Nope, just choosing the right powder and having a forgiving node in the gun. This was also loading for 6 Dasher which is pretty easy to get to shoot well.
I while back I tested the standard Dillon powder thrower and compared Varget to XBR8208. Across a string of 20 total charges at 30gr, Varget metered with a SD of 0.12gr and an ES of .46gr where XBR metered with an SD of .079gr and and ES of 0.26gr. XBR also held a very tight median around the charge weight average, 40 percent of the charges were within 0.02gr of the average.
The expander mandrel after FL bushing die is an attempt to control neck tension through setting ID of the neck since I'm not turning necks to a consistent thickness. Not much working of the brass at all, only 1 thou of expansion since I'm choosing an appropriate bushing. Plus it was something I'd seen recommended by others as part of their Dillon workflow for precision rifle.
I'm actually exploring whether changing to a full length non-bushing die with a custom honed neck diameter might work better to control runout. I've got a Forster 6 Dasher die with the neck honed to .265 on order. The neck OD after the carbide mandrel is .266 so that should match up nicely.
If you don't mind explaining a little more please. I'm trying to do the math in my head and guessing the neck is .012, so you end up with .002 tension? Also, can you tell me where you buy the mandrels and what die it goes in? TIA
I'm basing measurements off the OD of the neck of a loaded round, which for my Lapua brass is .268 - .2685. That works out to brass neck thickness around .0125 or so. Sized brass is .266 neck OD so it's about .002 neck tension. The expander mandrel is the Sinclair Gen II die and mandrel. I'm using the carbide turning mandrel which is .241 in diameter. Carbide is nice because it doesn't need lubrication inside the neck as long as you're not doing a large sizing step.
I have a 550 BL for my rifle loads and I use extruded powders so I didn't need the Dillon PM. I like to hand prime rifles loads so I can feel how much tension the pockets have. Worth those requirements I didn't need the loaded 550. I have a Redding BR3 PM to throw the extruded powders along with another tool head with a Lee PPM for another caliber. My loads are .5 moa and under but I use the press like a turret press, each stage at one time and its pretty quick compared to the Lee 3 hole turret.
Yeah, no problem. It's actually insanely fast and makes great ammo. And once set, the Dillon powder dispenser will hit the exact weight more often than not, especially with Varget, H335, 8208xbr, etc. Even IMR 4451 did as well through the Dillon as through a standard rcbs/Redding type dispenser. I currently have three rifle calibers set up this way and am really liking it.
The Whidden are shinier than the Dillon and the inside hole is wider so they don't properly fit on the Dillon toolheads stands. That's it as far as I can tell. If the tension pins are installed correctly, the dies in the Dillon have just as much wiggle as the Whidden.
You can use the Whidden lock rings on your Dillon toolheads. You can also make your own, if so inclined. A drill press really helps.
Ive been running a XL650 for a few years now. I use it to load 5.56, and 6.5cm AR10 precision loads as well as massive brass prep. I have 2 toolheads for each caliber, 1 is brass prep and the other is loading.
I have done side by side run out and accuracy testing with my Co-Ax and 650 with my 5.56 precision load (77smk and 73 ELDM). Runout was identical of .001 and most times less on both the Co-Ax and the 650. SD was 7 and same 0.5moa accuracy with both loads. Thats dropping 23.6g 8208XBR on the Dillon vs dropping 23.6g on the Chargemaster with the Co-Ax loaded rounds.
I have said this many times before, but if you put the work in up front to fine your OCW dropping .1 or even .2g high or load of your OCW isnt going to make a difference down range. Thats why we put so much effort into load development to ensure we are in the dead center of a node. If your on the edge of a node dropping .1 or .2g high or low will for sure cause you issues down range.
My brass prep toolheads are setup as follows. Decapping die, Dillon FL Size/Trim die using the RT1500 Dillon trimmer (AMAZING) which is setup to bump shoulders .003" on my 5.56 and 300blk brass and a 21st Century TiN expander mandrel custom ordered to set .002" neck tension. I dump a ton of brass in a large ziplock and use a few sprays of Dillon case lube and shake them around then dump them in the case feeder. You would be amazed at how fast I can prep 1000 cases. I will typically prep 3000-5000 5.56 and same for 300blk over the winter and put in plastic bins, ready to load. I dont have to prep those calibers until the following winter.
For my loading toolheads I seat primers for 5.56 and 300blk in station 2, drop powder in station 3 using the Dillon powder drop for 5.56 and 300blk and I use a powder die with no Dillion powder drop for large stick powders. I use the new Area419 Dillon powder funnel adapter made to fit right inside the Dillon powder die, drop on my Chargemaster and pour directly into the funnel/powder die setup then seat in Station 4 with a Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater and crimp if necessary in Station 5.
I have done side by side run out and accuracy testing with my Co-Ax and 650 with my 5.56 precision load (77smk and 73 ELDM). Runout was identical of .001 and most times less on both the Co-Ax and the 650. SD was 7 and same 0.5moa accuracy with both loads. Thats dropping 23.6g 8208XBR on the Dillon vs dropping 23.6g on the Chargemaster with the Co-Ax loaded rounds.
I have said this many times before, but if you put the work in up front to fine your OCW dropping .1 or even .2g high or load of your OCW isnt going to make a difference down range. Thats why we put so much effort into load development to ensure we are in the dead center of a node. If your on the edge of a node dropping .1 or .2g high or low will for sure cause you issues down range.
My brass prep toolheads are setup as follows. Decapping die, Dillon FL Size/Trim die using the RT1500 Dillon trimmer (AMAZING) which is setup to bump shoulders .003" on my 5.56 and 300blk brass and a 21st Century TiN expander mandrel custom ordered to set .002" neck tension. I dump a ton of brass in a large ziplock and use a few sprays of Dillon case lube and shake them around then dump them in the case feeder. You would be amazed at how fast I can prep 1000 cases. I will typically prep 3000-5000 5.56 and same for 300blk over the winter and put in plastic bins, ready to load. I dont have to prep those calibers until the following winter.
For my loading toolheads I seat primers for 5.56 and 300blk in station 2, drop powder in station 3 using the Dillon powder drop for 5.56 and 300blk and I use a powder die with no Dillion powder drop for large stick powders. I use the new Area419 Dillon powder funnel adapter made to fit right inside the Dillon powder die, drop on my Chargemaster and pour directly into the funnel/powder die setup then seat in Station 4 with a Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater and crimp if necessary in Station 5.
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