Precision Rifle Series

[taliv]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think they would fair as well the very first time shooting a Field Match out west. It's A different set of skills being tested. </div></div>

heh, we consider Texas "out west", but I've said this several times this year, having shot matches in the East, Far East, West and Far West this year... they are definitely different in ways that would make me practice differently for matches in different parts of the country. (I hope they stay that way too... don't want them to all look alike)


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People hate when you say, 30 seconds prep time, and then try telling them 30 seconds to find, range and engage a target. Most figure that needs a minimum of 90 seconds. Big difference that a lot of facilities can't overcome, unless you want nothing but shorter range barrel burner stages. Your events would go from 120 to 160 rounds down to 50 rounds to move that many through most places. It would be everyone on line shooting paper to accommodate the numbers.
</div></div>

I know I'm in the minority here, but that's my favorite kind of stage. And I prefer a 2-day match with 50 quality, challenging rounds, even with the downtime, to 160 rounds where I take 5 shots at the same target or shoot dot drills.



bmarc, there is one more way to get entry into a PRS match... If you RO at the Spring PMG team match, you'll definitely have a spot (and reduced or free entry fee) in our Aug 11-12 PRS match.

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Guy's I see your points clearly and we will be doing some discussing over the holidays.
But in my little narrow mind right now I see no harm in inviting those monthly match Top year long finishers (i.e. Norcal, phoenix, vegas, New mexico SRM, Oklahoma OPPS, and others i'm sure i don't know about) an opportunity to shoot the PRS finale.
Having local matches weigh in on points is not gonna happen just yet, it is just too complicated, but a special invite to those monthly match shooters based off of performance is fair approach and not out of the question. The only problem I would need to rectify is discussing this with our members and committee and gaining approval and reducing the number of slots for points shooters to make room for monthly match invitees. I mean there is only so much room but rewarding the best shooters is what we want to do. We also need a easier approach to introduce new faces. Guys I'm putting this to bed and gonna try to get some things done.
cheers!

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

The question is should this be set up like USPSA (without the verbose rule book) or 3-Gun Nation? Don't reinvent the wheel. The models are there.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

I'm curious if perhaps we are simply talking at cross purposes. Some say "grow the sport" and they think that more and more of their friends and neighbors will be joining them on the firing line each month. Others say "grow the sport" and they think that the sponsors and matches and prizes and TV deals will get bigger and better. At least for the people at the center of it. The rest of us will make a great fan-base.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

I am just extremely excited about having the oppurtunity to shoot with some of the "big names" in tactical shooting. I for one am looking to have a great time, learn from everyone around me, meet some new people, and hopefully shoot well at the matches.

Thank You Rich for putting this together.

I think the biggest hurdle is getting picked for matches. We will see how it goes. IMO if you want to shoot in the finale then you should join PRS. Anyone who was serious about shooting in PRS had plenty of time to apply.

Either way, let's just go shoot and have FUN!!!!!

Take it easy,

Joe

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Getting in big matches has always been tough, and only gets worse as more shooters get involved faster than matches develop.

Make precision matches 3G style I know you'll have one less competitor...

Keep on keeping on!

 

[c ward]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Comparing the PRS to 3gun Nation is kinda apples to oranges . The 3GN events are piggy backed on to existing stand alone matches .

They take select stages from the match and determine which shooters go to the shoot off with the number that qualify determined by the number of total shooters in the class . IE open gets so many spots and tactical gets so many , etc. . There is no cost for this to the shooter all the expenses are handled by the sponsors and you do not sign up for the shoot off its determined by how the main match is shot . At the end of the year it is the points accumulated in the shoot offs that determines who goes to the final . The final is also the only match that is shot with your own equipment all the shoot offs are with pick up guns provided by the sponsors .

 

[Outback]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Can't afford it don't shoot.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Just like C Ward said dont compare the PRS to 3GN. They are 100% totally different monsters.

The PRS will never grow to the level of 3GN and will not even come close to level of sponsorship or support that 3GN has.

When the average 3 gun match prize table sits at over $200,000+ in prizes sitting there for 250 shooters. Giving away 140 guns at one match shows you the level of support those matches are getting.

With the PR matches the largest prize tables we have ever seen have come from the SH/RO matches. The average for PR prizes tables is in the $30,000 - $40,000 range. Which is still nice for 60 shooters.

Lets face it noone wants to watch what we do on TV and its alot harder to video and promote the sport because of this. More people would watch hunters taking shots on game then watching PR matches.

Granted the PR matches are fun for us to shoot, they are challenging and most people dont understand and get whats going on. So they wont sit there and watch it.

3 gun and USPSA shooting is fast and action packed and you can see whats taking place. Thats why you see NBC picking it up.

3 gun and Precision Rifle are two of the fastest growing shooting sports. But the sad fact is 3 gun and USPSA is growing 8-10 times faster then PR.

The way they work and how matches are ran totally opposite.The amount of shooters involved in those sports tower over PR shooters.

I dont think the focus of the PRS or its members should be to try and copy or mimic the 3GN and try to do what they have done. 3 gun has established itself and a following. PR has still to complete that. Once the following gets to that level then maybe you can set your goals to get that accomplished.

The focus for the PRS is how do we get more shooters, matches, a scoring and ranking system in place to allow PR to grow in a manner thats a productive to the shooters and the sport.

 

[c ward]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't afford it don't shoot. </div></div>

Don't see where I said anything other than the continued comparisons to 3gun Nation were faulty because it is run totally different .

 

[jasonk]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The PRS will never grow to the level of 3GN and will not even come close to level of sponsorship or support that 3GN has.

When the average 3 gun match prize table sits at over $200,000+ in prizes sitting there for 250 shooters. Giving away 140 guns at one match shows you the level of support those matches are getting.
</div></div>

So you're telling me I picked the wrong hobby!?

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Jason K YES YES YES!! Both are great sports but if you want a high return on your investment then you are in the wrong game.

If you do this for the challenge, fun, and the love then its the right game!!

 

[poison123]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C Ward</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't afford it don't shoot. </div></div>

Don't see where I said anything other than the continued comparisons to 3gun Nation were faulty because it is run totally different . </div></div>

Alpha01's reply is pretty piss poor.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C Ward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Comparing the PRS to 3gun Nation is kinda apples to oranges . The 3GN events are piggy backed on to existing stand alone matches .

They take select stages from the match and determine which shooters go to the shoot off with the number that qualify determined by the number of total shooters in the class . IE open gets so many spots and tactical gets so many , etc. . There is no cost for this to the shooter all the expenses are handled by the sponsors and you do not sign up for the shoot off its determined by how the main match is shot . At the end of the year it is the points accumulated in the shoot offs that determines who goes to the final . The final is also the only match that is shot with your own equipment all the shoot offs are with pick up guns provided by the sponsors .</div></div>

Chuck's points about using select stages is a great one and something that opens up much more avenues when you think about it big picture.

Funny the pick up gun is one of the least liked elements of a PR match because of the issue of shooter differences, so that tells you something there.

For a big guy with a short post you did alright.

 

[The Animal]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The PRS will never grow to the level of 3GN and will not even come close to level of sponsorship or support that 3GN has.

When the average 3 gun match prize table sits at over $200,000+ in prizes sitting there for 250 shooters. Giving away 140 guns at one match shows you the level of support those matches are getting.
</div></div>

So you're telling me I picked the wrong hobby!?</div></div>


Just convince Megan that you "NEED" to do both!

 

[DirtySteve]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

With all the bitching and bellyaching going on in this thread it could be a special on the lifetime network!

 

[bmarc69]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't afford it don't shoot. </div></div>WOW!!!! That attitude should really encourage new shooters to join in. Gotta be rich to play our game.

The fact is, not all shooters can afford to make three matches. Only a select few have sponsors to help with expenses. I say good for them. They have earned it. The proper equipment can be expensive to compete in PR matches. Ammo is probably the biggest expense in the long run. Practice isn't cheap just to prepare for a match. It does in fact require a good deal of expendable income to compete regardless of the match being PRS or not. What I want to know from this comment is how will making the sport more costly for new shooters help it grow?

I will say this, I'm not one of them, but I would be willing to bet there are shooters around that can shoot just as good as the top shooters in the PRS but can't compete due to the expense. Do we outcast them or try to bring everyone we can into the sport?

On a final note, which would be better for bringing new competitors and shooters to the sport? Elitist comments or the average guy coming to the championship match from local matches and doing well or even winning?

 

[c ward]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C Ward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Comparing the PRS to 3gun Nation is kinda apples to oranges . The 3GN events are piggy backed on to existing stand alone matches .

They take select stages from the match and determine which shooters go to the shoot off with the number that qualify determined by the number of total shooters in the class . IE open gets so many spots and tactical gets so many , etc. . There is no cost for this to the shooter all the expenses are handled by the sponsors and you do not sign up for the shoot off its determined by how the main match is shot . At the end of the year it is the points accumulated in the shoot offs that determines who goes to the final . The final is also the only match that is shot with your own equipment all the shoot offs are with pick up guns provided by the sponsors .</div></div>

Chuck's points about using select stages is a great one and something that opens up much more avenues when you think about it big picture.

Funny the pick up gun is one of the least liked elements of a PR match because of the issue of shooter differences, so that tells you something there.

For a big guy with a short post you did alright.

</div></div>

Can't take credit for the ideas thats just the way the local guy's I know that have been in 3GN shoot offs have related it to me and from watching the video .

The biggest thing I see here are people getting really wrapped up over a concept and failing to take into account the cyclical nature of the shooting sports .

An example of this is the crest that cowboy action was on in the mid and late 90's and the huge decline back to where they are today . 3gun and PR are on this cycle right now with 3gun at or really close to the peak now and PR on the upslope still .

Another thing being ignored is not seeing that what is considered a good match , in both 3gun and PR , varies immensely with geographical location . I see a lot of bias here as to what type of match people think is acceptable and what is not .

In the grand scheme it doesn't mater what other people that aren't participating in these matches say . If they sell out and the shooters that did are happy that sounds like a success to me , for both the match and the shooter . Thats simple business , provide a product that your customers want to use and are happy with so to generate return customers .

I suspect that the whole PRS thing is going to come down to exactly that supply and demand , we'll have to see if the kinks get worked out or not .

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like C Ward said dont compare the PRS to 3GN. They are 100% totally different monsters.

The PRS will never grow to the level of 3GN and will not even come close to level of sponsorship or support that 3GN has.
</div></div>

I am glad that we are seeing that the 3 gun nation is totaly different from the PRS. The 3 GN has a lot of sponsorship support and that is why they are paying what they are.

There is no question that 3 gun has grown. More and more matches are springing up, but I still say that it is not the same as the PRS.

Still a lot of good ideas being posted. I am sure that the PRS is taking notice. Let see what happens after the first year. Only time will tell.

 

[Mendocino]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Nomad said: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets face it noone wants to watch what we do on TV and its alot harder to video and promote the sport because of this. More people would watch hunters taking shots on game then watching PR matches.</div></div>

Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting matches is a compelling sport. The competitive strategy, execution, [and frankly drama] of the sport is interesting to a material segment of the public and will find a spot in a broader media context.

From a Competition Dynamics perspective, we are negotiating with multiple media venues to create a larger awareness for the sport and create win-win situations for all the participants: competitors, sponsors, match directors, and fans.

Watch it happen.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Mendocino would love to see that happen and think it would be a great thing for the sport!! I hope it pans out and best of luck on getting it done.

 

[bailey1474]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

I got in this sport b/c I got tired of seeing animals at a distance that I couldn't kill. I know that's not the reason everyone got interested but a good majority of the LR shooters here in OK did it for the same reason. As more guys got interested a few matches started popping up and the people w/a competitive nature couldn't get enough. Now it appears that we have all created a monster!! That is a good thing b/c interest in our sport has never been higher I think it will continue to grow. I was excited to see that the PRS gave us an opportunity to pit the best shooters from across the nation against each other. It is having some issues in it's FIRST year and will likely take a few years to get right. I commend Rich and the other guys for getting off their asses and trying to make our sport better. With some patience and support they will make it work in a way that is good for everyone and good for the sport.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

We have 4-5 guys that shoot together and try to share travel expenses, etc. to these bigger matches, most of which are 10-14 hours drive time for us.

The chances of all 4-5 of us getting to go together are pretty slim.

4 of us entered the Score-High match within 4 seconds of opening, 2 got in, 2 didn't.

The ONLY solution I see, is....MORE MATCHES! The only way to get more matches, IMO, is use the historic tried and true method...free enterprise.

I have no problem with the MD making a profit, if it will promote more matches.

60 competitors X $200 entry fee = $12,000

IF an MD can do ONE match a year now, the one match should take care of overhead, insurance, etc, etc. for 2-3 MORE matches.

Hopefully the MD's will start looking at a business model where they can stick an extra $3-5K in their pocket 3 or 4 times a year.

 

[Outback]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmarc69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't afford it don't shoot. </div></div>WOW!!!! That attitude should really encourage new shooters to join in. Gotta be rich to play our game.

The fact is, not all shooters can afford to make three matches. Only a select few have sponsors to help with expenses. I say good for them. They have earned it. The proper equipment can be expensive to compete in PR matches. Ammo is probably the biggest expense in the long run. Practice isn't cheap just to prepare for a match. It does in fact require a good deal of expendable income to compete regardless of the match being PRS or not. What I want to know from this comment is how will making the sport more costly for new shooters help it grow?

I will say this, I'm not one of them, but I would be willing to bet there are shooters around that can shoot just as good as the top shooters in the PRS but can't compete due to the expense. Do we outcast them or try to bring everyone we can into the sport?

On a final note, which would be better for bringing new competitors and shooters to the sport? Elitist comments or the average guy coming to the championship match from local matches and doing well or even winning? </div></div>
Maybe you should Dry Fire

 

[Outback]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

If you do this for the challenge, fun, and the love then its the right game!!
Couldn't agree More NOMAD!!

 

[The Animal]

Re: Precision Rifle Series


I agree that getting more matches would be great but I'd be willing to bet that most MD's do this for the love of the sport...not to make $3k - $5k more in their pocket.

There are a lot easier ways of making a few thousand without all the stress. Imagine the logistics of getting sponsors lined up for your match, getting everyone to submit their registration and paid timely, organizing the match, organizing all your RO's and support staff, securing a range with an excellent target system, getting food for shooters and staff, getting trophies lined up, tee shirts ordered, gift packets. Getting phone calls and emails from friends and fellow shooters to allow you to shoot the match in hopes that you don't offend anybody if you say no. Sending out thank you letters and pictures to sponsors after the match. It takes a special person that wants to take on that responsibility. I know as the treasurer of NorCal, we paid out everything we collected plus some after all expenses were paid to host TBRC.

Any of the MD's here (Kevin, Scott, Frank, Adam, Vu, Charley, Jacob, Rich, Steve, etc.) should be given awards and not given any grief from any of us. These gentlemen have jobs and running a match of any quality is more time consuming than anybody can imagine and is not worth the extra few dollars for the stress that goes with it.

These guys are hero's in my book. I suggest that we cut all of these gentlemen some slack and remember they are volunteers. Ask what you can do to help them out in any way would grow this sport exponentially rather than take it a step back by dog piling on them.

Francis

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

I'm not saying that any of the MD's are doing this for the $$.

BUT, IF IT WILL OPEN MORE MATCHES, I hope 10 people do it, and figure out how to make a sustainable, profitable enterprise out of it.

It wouldn't lessen their love of the sport a bit, it may make it even warmer and fuzzier.

If it was done properly, as a business, it would lesson the stressors you mentioned considerably.

I hope no-one here takes anything I've said as derogatory to any RO, because I've done it as a volunteer many times, and know the amount of work and effort involved.

 

[bmarc69]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmarc69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't afford it don't shoot. </div></div>WOW!!!! That attitude should really encourage new shooters to join in. Gotta be rich to play our game.

The fact is, not all shooters can afford to make three matches. Only a select few have sponsors to help with expenses. I say good for them. They have earned it. The proper equipment can be expensive to compete in PR matches. Ammo is probably the biggest expense in the long run. Practice isn't cheap just to prepare for a match. It does in fact require a good deal of expendable income to compete regardless of the match being PRS or not. What I want to know from this comment is how will making the sport more costly for new shooters help it grow?

I will say this, I'm not one of them, but I would be willing to bet there are shooters around that can shoot just as good as the top shooters in the PRS but can't compete due to the expense. Do we outcast them or try to bring everyone we can into the sport?

On a final note, which would be better for bringing new competitors and shooters to the sport? Elitist comments or the average guy coming to the championship match from local matches and doing well or even winning? </div></div>
Maybe you should Dry Fire </div></div>Everybody should. Good practice you can do at home.

Since you obviously only care about bashing me simply because I mentioned concerns about the PRS and have no intentions of carrying on intelligent conversation or debate, I will retire to my lowly status and try not to step on your elitist toes. (Anybody know where to find that sarcasm emoticon ?)Good luck at your future matches and good shootin' to ya.

As for the PRS, I'm sure Rich and all the guys putting this together are working their tails off. They obviously care about the sport and want it to grow. I'm sure they have read every post in this thread. I'm also sure they know the sport can't grow without everyone including those floating around the edges. I commend them and wish them the best.

Thanks guys and Merry Christmas to "everyone" here.

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

The discourse in this thread so far is exactly what our sport needs in order to take the next step.

Just a few thoughts

One of the drawbacks to the PR game is that it requires lots of land and time to run a number of competitors through any course of fire. The ability to walk down range and paste targets on every stage would be a carbine stage run with a bolt gun.

PR is not at all like 3 gun or USPSA where 150 folks can show up at their local 100 yard range at 0900 shoot 10 stages, 200 rounds and be home for dinner.

One of the drawbacks to allowing local matches that are shot monthly into the mix is that shooter knowledge of the terrain and atmospheric conditions become second nature. Once exposed to a new area the shooter’s learning curve is vertical. In order to be a top competitor nationally the shooter will have to travel out of state. Local matches are an excellent venue to acquire the necessary skills.

Prepping for a $30.00 local match is reloading 100 rounds the night before, loading the truck up, heading to the range, showing up 10 minutes late, saying hello to all of your buds and getting your shoot on then beating up on guys that are used to unlimited sighters in order to call winds.

Prepping for an out of state match should be wildly different and a $200-$300 match fee plus travel time ensures that it is.

This year I probably will not make the PRS finally nor will I be able to shoot in more than 3 PRS events this year and I favor team matches but I gladly donated $75 to the pot in support of a great concept in hopes that it will evolve. The additional bonus of hitting the vertical learning curve, shooting with some of the best competitors in the country. The active and passive learning experiences is second to none and well worth the $75.00 plus match and travel expenses.

Most folks that shoot in this sport even at the lowest level have at least $3K invested in rifle and optics alone. So $75.00 really???? My long term plan is to be very competitive in this sport and a $75.00 PRS entry fee, $250 match entry fees are very inexpensive 2 day shooting clinics. A person can only learn so much from the internet and you tube videos.

Even shooters on a budget will find a way to budget for a few matches a year if they are passionate about competition.

The PRS should and eventually will have a wider draw, but it will have to be in the MDs best interest to host matches.


Here is a concept based on my experience on the Golden State developmental tour in the golf world:

Golf and shooting are very similar sports in many ways. Both sports require precision execution of shots over long distances where terrain, temperature and winds can play havoc. Each course of fire and venue offer a unique experience that will ultimately shape the individual skill set.

Golf has multiple strata of professionals. The top 125 guys play on TV, the top 60 from the previous year play in the Masters. The second tier play on the nationwide tour where the top 25 from the previous year get a shot on the big tour. Below that are developmental tours, which are regional. The golden State tour, Tear Drop Tour, Hooters Tour are all examples of developmental tours. The developmental tours usually have a buy in of a few thousand dollars that pay tour administrators and what is left over gets distributed to the top players at the end of the year.

Developemental tours are set up different than the top 2 TV tours. Each event has an upfront individual cost that gets distributed to the top players of each event. The tournament director pays the golf course and staff first, what is left over gets paid to the players. PRS and local matches could eventually run the same way. The only real issue is getting a range set up and running that can support a PR match with 100 competitors is expensive, just like building a golf course.

Guys that want shoot for money can pay the extra $$$ entry fee.

Guys that want to shoot for fun can pay the standard entry fee covering range time and MD expenses.

The bottom line with this model is an extra $100 on top of the standard entry fee could yield a $7,000 cash payout in a match with 70 paying competitors distributed 40/30/20/10 or any number of other ways.

While running matches is never going to turn into a full time job that can support a mortgage and family. It shouldn’t be charity work either. Running matches is a way to help support an expensive shooting habit. MDs, land owners and folks involved with hosting a match need to be compensated for their time beyond paying for match expenses; targets, insurance, gas, vacation time plus the months of prep work needed to run an effective fun match.

 

[Here2Learn]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Very well put Scott. I have been hanging back to see how this first year goes but it looks interesting.

Rich, I know you have more than enough on your plate right now with the individual PRS but it would be interesting to have another side that was a team PRS with a similar concept to the individual. Maybe something to consider down the road.

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

All this angst about making a profit or not is hilarious--

This is America, where nobody should apologize for doing what he loves, doing a great job at it, selling a good or service to others who are happy to pay, and trying to make a living at it. If successful, that's called running a business.

That's why we shoot GAP/Surgeon rifles with USO/SB/Premier scopes and a good can on the end (hopefully TBAC). You don't expect any of them to run at a loss or no profit, or to work gratis, just because you want what they make. The idea that rifle shooters who travel around the country and show up with $6-10k rifles need charity is ridiculous.

 

[Lucks]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The idea that rifle shooters who travel around the country and show up with $6-10k rifles need charity is ridiculous.
</div></div>
^^^^^^
Exactly! Well put!


Putting on a major match costs match directors weeks worth of time focused away from their families and their day jobs.
Also, there is a tremendous amount of pressure that goes along with putting on an event that tries to meet everyones expectations and keep a large group of people from all over the country safe and happy.
There is a lot of stress involved....nearly enough to take the fun out of it.

Match Directors better be taken care of financially or eventually they wont be able to justify making the sacrifice...

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Has PRS written short-term or 5-year goal statements? I know "Mission Statements" are passe, but (I think) it would be good for all involved to know what the mission and goals are. $0.02. I know this has been a lot of hard work and I appreciate everything done thus far. Merry Christmas.

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Mission Statement ... Honestly in writing, no, the About Page is as close as it is explained. And I can't give you one off the cuff. But I would say that my Mission was to never ever get involved in so much scrutiny and drama revolving around competitions.

One thing I've always been interested in is to know more about the shooters in our Sport. Alot of us share a common bond, be it hunters, outdoorsman, gun nuts, law dogs, or military experience. Additionally, over the years strong friendships get formed and now I look forward to nothing more than shooting it out with my friends and helping a new friend get in the game. As a intense competitor I want nothing less than to do the best I can against the best there. I also believe that this Sport is as popular now as ever and that competitions themselves create high level excitement but it seems only natural that we develop a championship type approach.
Now this isn't my idea, it's been talked about in circles for years, the old hands here swear it won't work cause they saw it fail before. But we called in the players, set the table, dealt the cards, and no we just got to see how things shake out.
I can tell you one thing I won't crawfish the bet . We might have to set up more tables so everybody gets a decent hand but it will be the guys who paid to play to make that decision. Everybody enjoy their families for a few days,

Enjoy the quick read below if you haven't already.

"Let's get to know"

 

[Outback]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmarc69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmarc69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpha 01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't afford it don't shoot. </div></div>WOW!!!! That attitude should really encourage new shooters to join in. Gotta be rich to play our game.

The fact is, not all shooters can afford to make three matches. Only a select few have sponsors to help with expenses. I say good for them. They have earned it. The proper equipment can be expensive to compete in PR matches. Ammo is probably the biggest expense in the long run. Practice isn't cheap just to prepare for a match. It does in fact require a good deal of expendable income to compete regardless of the match being PRS or not. What I want to know from this comment is how will making the sport more costly for new shooters help it grow?

I will say this, I'm not one of them, but I would be willing to bet there are shooters around that can shoot just as good as the top shooters in the PRS but can't compete due to the expense. Do we outcast them or try to bring everyone we can into the sport?

On a final note, which would be better for bringing new competitors and shooters to the sport? Elitist comments or the average guy coming to the championship match from local matches and doing well or even winning? </div></div>
Maybe you should Dry Fire </div></div>Everybody should. Good practice you can do at home.

Since you obviously only care about bashing me simply because I mentioned concerns about the PRS and have no intentions of carrying on intelligent conversation or debate, I will retire to my lowly status and try not to step on your elitist toes. (Anybody know where to find that sarcasm emoticon ?)Good luck at your future matches and good shootin' to ya.

As for the PRS, I'm sure Rich and all the guys putting this together are working their tails off. They obviously care about the sport and want it to grow. I'm sure they have read every post in this thread. I'm also sure they know the sport can't grow without everyone including those floating around the edges. I commend them and wish them the best.

Thanks guys and Merry Christmas to "everyone" here. </div></div>
Maybe Santa will bring you ammo!

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Merry Christmas guys!

I am thankful for the efforts of the PRS board, MD's around the country, fellow competitors and the sponsor's for the PRS. Since I have been involved in shooting these competitions I haven't seen anyone take on something like this. I am happy that they were willing to put this into motion!

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: Precision Rifle Series



<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Any additional competitors wishing to join the PRS Association, we have narrowed out some non-payers so you can send a email to :<span style="color: #330099">[email protected]</span> and I can get you registered for a limited time.</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Registration closed</span></span>

We have had some great luck with sponsor support and fund raising. We are nearing <span style="font-weight: bold">$20,000</span> for the Finale cash payout and hope to reach way beyond that with additional support. Please contact me if you have any questions or suggestions at the above email.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Here's the newest line up...</span>
http://precisionrifleseries.com/upcoming_events

1. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Lone Star Challenge</span> </span> December 3-4, 2011 Frost, Texas Match info <span style="color: #009900">Results</span> <span style="color: #CC33CC">PRS SCORES</span> <span style="color: #FF6600">MATCH PHOTOS</span>
2. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Phoenix TPRC</span></span> February 18-19, 2012 Phoenix, Arizona > > Match info <span style="color: #009900">Results</span> <span style="color: #CC66CC">PRS SCORES</span> <span style="color: #FF6600">MATCH PHOTOS</span>
3. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">K&M Precision Rifle Competition</span></span> March 3-4 2012 near Crestview, Forida >> Match info <span style="color: #009900">Results</span> <span style="color: #CC33CC">PRS SCORES</span>
4. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tac Pro Sniper Tournament</span></span> March 10-11,2012 Mingus,TX > match info --<span style="color: #CC33CC">PRS SCORES</span>
5. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">The Findlay Cup</span> </span> March 24-25 2012 near Wenatchee, WA ><span style="color: #FF0000">FULL</span>> >Match info Sign up Jan 21st @ 0900
6. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Rifles Only Brawl</span></span> April 5-7 2012 Kingsville, Texas ><span style="color: #FF0000">FULL</span> >MATCH INFO>
7. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Score High Tactical Match</span> </span> May 12-13, 2012 Albuquerque, New Mexico > <span style="color: #FF0000">FULL</span>> Match info >
8. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Louisiana Tactical Precision Rifle Challenge</span></span> June 2-3 2012 Shreveport, LA >Sign up Feb 26th @8pm CST <span style="color: #FF0000"> > FULL </span>
9. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Kentucky Precision Rifle Challenge </span> </span> July 13-15 2012 Rock Castle Shooting Center, Park city, Kentucky > Sign up March 1st
10. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Precision Multi Gun (PMG)</span></span> August 11-12, 2012 near Cookeville, Tennessee
11. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Oklahoma Tactical Shooters (OTS)</span> Match</span> Sept. 15-16th 2012 Western, Oklahoma
12. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">NCPPRC Tactical Bolt Rifle Challenge (TBRC)</span></span> September 28-30, 2012 Sacramento, California
13. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">North Texas Rifle Precision (NTRP)</span></span> Match Oct. 13-14th 2012 Gun Barrel City, Texas
14. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">"GAP Grind" presented by GA Precision</span></span> hosted at K&M Precison Rifle Training, Crestview FL. October 27-28, 2012
15.<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">LV STEEL Major Match</span></span> TBA Las Vegas, Nevada

<span style="text-decoration: underline">FINALE MATCH
<span style="color: #330099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Series Finale @ Rifles Only Bash </span></span> December 1-2nd 2012 Kingsville, TX</span>

 

[hugo121175]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Does anyone have the details for the Kentucky Precision Rifle Challenge registration? Is the application a Google Doc that you email? Is it an actual form that you have to print, fill out, and them overnight?

I have now attempted to registered for 5 of the past 8 matches with registration that have been opened, and have made it into zero of them. This is getting to be more difficult than I had first thought to try to shoot nationally. I may not be looking to take the companionship, but I would at least like to be able to shoot in a couple national matches. This is just discouraging....

JM2C
Hugo

 

[bmarc69]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hugo121175</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have the details for the Kentucky Precision Rifle Challenge registration? Is the application a Google Doc that you email? Is it an actual form that you have to print, fill out, and them overnight?

I have now attempted to registered for 5 of the past 8 matches with registration that have been opened, and have made it into zero of them. This is getting to be more difficult than I had first thought to try to shoot nationally. I may not be looking to take the companionship, but I would at least like to be able to shoot in a couple national matches. This is just discouraging....

JM2C
Hugo </div></div>Go to the thread in the competitions forum on here. Follow the link to the KPRC website. The entry form will be posted on the website at a specified time. It is stated in the thread what the time and date is. All you have to do is go to the KPRC website, print the form, fill it out, and mail it ASAP to the provided address. Overnight probably won't be a bad idea but may or may not be necessary. It's as simple as the first 80 entries received by mail are in. Hope this helps.

 

[1b375]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

The application for the Kentucky PRC will be on the website tomorrow night around 11:00 P.M. EST.

You mail in the app to the address on the registration form.

 

[hugo121175]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

Thanx for the heads up.... I just want to shoot.... ;j

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: Precision Rifle Series

updated dates to K&M/"GAP Grind"

website will be updated soon http://precisionrifleseries.com/upcoming_events

1. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Lone Star Challenge</span> </span> December 3-4, 2011 Frost, Texas Match info <span style="color: #009900">Results</span> <span style="color: #CC33CC">PRS SCORES</span> <span style="color: #FF6600">MATCH PHOTOS</span>
2. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Phoenix TPRC</span></span> February 18-19, 2012 Phoenix, Arizona > > Match info <span style="color: #009900">Results</span> <span style="color: #CC66CC">PRS SCORES</span> <span style="color: #FF6600">MATCH PHOTOS</span>
3. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">K&M Precision Rifle Competition</span></span> March 3-4 2012 near Crestview, Forida >> Match info <span style="color: #009900">Results</span> <span style="color: #CC33CC">PRS SCORES</span>
4. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tac Pro Sniper Tournament</span></span> March 10-11,2012 Mingus,TX > match info --<span style="color: #CC33CC">PRS SCORES</span>
5. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">The Findlay Cup</span> </span> March 24-25 2012 near Wenatchee, WA ><span style="color: #FF0000">FULL</span>> >Match info Sign up Jan 21st @ 0900
6. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Rifles Only Brawl</span></span> April 5-7 2012 Kingsville, Texas ><span style="color: #FF0000">FULL</span> >MATCH INFO>
7. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Score High Tactical Match</span> </span> May 12-13, 2012 Albuquerque, New Mexico > <span style="color: #FF0000">FULL</span>> Match info >
8. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Louisiana Tactical Precision Rifle Challenge</span></span> June 2-3 2012 Shreveport, LA >Sign up Feb 26th @8pm CST <span style="color: #FF0000"> > FULL </span>
9. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Kentucky Precision Rifle Challenge </span> </span> July 13-15 2012 Rock Castle Shooting Center, Park city, Kentucky > Sign up March 1st
10. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Precision Multi Gun (PMG)</span></span> August 11-12, 2012 near Cookeville, Tennessee
11. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">Oklahoma Tactical Shooters (OTS)</span> Match</span> Sept. 15-16th 2012 Western, Oklahoma
12. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">NCPPRC Tactical Bolt Rifle Challenge (TBRC)</span></span> September 28-30, 2012 Sacramento, California
13. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">North Texas Rifle Precision (NTRP)</span></span> Match Oct. 13-14th 2012 Gun Barrel City, Texas
14. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">"GAP Grind" presented by GA Precision</span></span> hosted at K&M Precison Rifle Training, Crestview FL. October 27-28, 2012
15. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #330099">LV STEEL Major Match</span></span> TBA Las Vegas, Nevada

<span style="text-decoration: underline">FINALE MATCH
<span style="color: #330099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Series Finale @ Rifles Only </span></span> December 1-2nd 2012 Kingsville, TX</span>