Precision semi-auto peculiarities

[Disconnekt]

I searched and didn’t find what I was looking for, so my stupid question is this:

I always hear people say gas guns are much harder to shoot well than bolt guns. Assuming good fundamentals (which I’m still/always working on) and an accurate weapon, what specific things do I need to be mindful of to shoot a .308 AR well vs a bolt gun? What pitfalls do I need to avoid?

 

[Lowlight]

Trigger Control and Follow Through, you have to employ an delayed trigger reset and don’t come off the trigger until the bullet hits the target. Then, listen for the audible reset.

The better the rifle the sooner you can reset, but it’s best to go slow and stay engaged with the sights and ride the rifle through recoil.

 

[Disconnekt]

Thanks! I think I’ve got the trigger reset covered. I probably overdo it, I stay on the trigger until I’m almost ready to fire again.

I can sometimes shoot awesome groups with good factory ammo or handloads, and it usually feels good when I do. Specifically, the gun seems to recoil pretty much straight back and fall on target when I’m shooting a good group. This doesn’t happen more often than it does, though, so recoil management is probably a big issue I need to figure out.

I always take the parallax out of my scope, and it has a pretty tight eyebox, so my cheek weld has to be consistent or I immediately notice in the scope picture. I always check NPOA before I start shooting, and I don’t pull the trigger until my sights are falling back to the spot I want to hit every time I exhale, so I don’t think that’s it. I always make sure my trigger press is steady and straight back, and that my firing hand or other fingers/thumb aren’t applying any sideways pressure when I do. I dry fire a lot to lock this down.

Anything I’m missing?

 

[The King]

Yes - its about lock time in a gas gun. Lock time is the mechanical issue that defies a bolt action shooter who is good from becoming a good gas gun shooter.

In a striker fired bolt gun, the striker moves a 1/16th of an inch driven by a strong spring and bam. Gun goes off. In the gas gun, the hammer describes a 2 inch arc before hitting the firing pin.

So you need to be the dead coldest "don't mooooove MOTHERFUCKA!" shooter to get your gas gun to really shine. Or if you do move, it needs to be exactly the same each time.

As lowlight says - trigger control and follow through. I just thought I would add a bit more about why.

 

[Gray Squirrel]

In the Army, I started with the M24 and transitioned to the M110 when they started pushing it out to different units.

We never saw an issue or difference in running either from a fundamentals standpoint. We could switch back and forth between the weapon systems without issues. The trigger control/follow through previosuly mentioned is important and really the only significant difference. This should be relatively negated by a super steady position, but could obviously cause issues during shooting from alternate positions. Other than that, the fundamentals are the same for either system.

The biggest issue we ran into between the two is when we ran the M110 suppressed during extended range days. Gas systems suppressed get dirty quick. That, combined with tighter tolerances in a precision based system means your bolt starts to get sluggish and you start getting malfunctions. Bolt actions don’t suffer from the same issues during suppressed operation and tend to run a little more consistently.

 

[Disconnekt]

All good points... I think lock time might be the confounding factor I wasn’t considering. Occasionally I get twitchy if I hold still for too long (not the same as a flinch exactly, it happens if I’m really still in any context). A slight twitch at the wrong moment would defintely throw me off even if I was frozen until the trigger broke. I also noticed a similar phenomenon to someone else who posted another thread where the longer I take shooting a group, the worse it tends to be, whereas if I try to keep a careful but quick cadence, I’m more likely to keep the shots tight.

A related thing regarding lock time might be my grip. I wonder if an excessively light grip to avoid torque from my thumb or fingers might actually be causing me a problem if the pressure change from the trigger breaking and swing of the hammer are causing movement of the gun. I’m thinking probably not because I don’t see any movement in dry fire, but I suppose any change in steady pressure of the system could affect how it recoils as well. Maybe I should be less shy about gripping the rifle.

Yeah, I’ve definitely slacked off on keeping the gun wet before and had some nasty malfunctions with longer shooting sessions. My chrome bolt carrier probably runs a bit longer than it should and enables bad maintenance habits.

Thanks for the tips, and keep ‘em coming if there are any more!

 

[The King]

One more tip - your shooting style might like a hard hold on the gas gun. Sort of manhandle the thing instead of letting it just free recoil.

 

[Disconnekt]

Excellent, just tried that. Manhandling the grip plus a fairly heavy bipod load definitely didn’t hurt, and the recoil seemed to be more predictable that way. I think the forward impulse from the bolt carrier slamming back home was throwing the gun god knows where in my follow through, and constantly having to adjust to get back on target was leading to inconsistencies from shot to shot. When I hold on tight and really pull the stock in (but not so much that I get muscle fatigue), my firing position, cheek weld, etc. all hold together much better after the shot.

I only shot at 100 yards today, though, so I’ll see if that’s still a viable technique farther out at some point.