Precision shooting training with a 22lr?

[SDmtnbkr]

So I've been toying around with getting a nice bolt gun and entering the world of precision shooting for a couple years now (I'm mostly an AR & 1911 guy), but as luck will have it I finally decided to pull the trigger right in the middle of the biggest ammo crisis.... ever? I don't think I've ever seen an ammo crisis like this one! Basically I figured I'd build it now, while the AR craze is still going, and go have some fun at the range. But I just realized that even if I do build it, finding match ammo to practice with is going to be next to impossible and damned expensive.

So my questions is... are rimfire's accurate enough to practice precisions shooting for groups at 100 yards? I have a Marlin 60 with a 3x9 scope on it that's been collecting dust in the garage for a while and plenty of 22rl stocked up. Can I expect to get accurate consistent groups out of it or is that asking too much?

 

[George Az]

I regularly shoot out past 50 yards and g the occasional 100 with my 10/22, heavy barrel, Volqui trigger kit, and a 6 x 24 el cheapo target scope. I actually use the A/O though and it works. At 50 yards prone in the dirt, off the bi pod I use tiny dot targets. Postage stamp size will do, or use a dime as a template and make your own. My buddy and I used to do ten dime size targets, ten shots, 60 seconds. Bet a dime a round, miss is a penalty. It can be a lot of fun. All the basics are there, breathing, trigger control. Wind at 50 yards isn't too bad.

It is really fun to try an ding a chipmunk, we are loaded with the pests and at 25 - 30 yards the little critters are a tough shot.

 

[ivanthesane]

Been doing a lot of 100 yard shooting with my Savage to get ready for a reduced scale silly-wet match next month. Averaging just over 1" groups at 100 yards.

Decent inexpensive rifle - Savage w/ heavy barrel, one fo the CZ offerings, etc. Decent scope with enough magnification and AO - the AO really helps when shooting close. Then try all the various ammo types you can get your hands on... my Savage prefers sub sonic stuff, and does well with a large variety of it.

 

[ole'soldier]

If the gun is accurate then yes, it's another tool to use. Look at the 22LR as a cartridge all its own and not just a trainer. Match ammo isn't always required either, some rifles shoot the cheap stuff/non-match ammo better. Find a round your rifle shoots well with, hit the 100yd line have at it. My daughter has a Marlin 795 and it shoots very well actually, I believe it was built around the 60's action (I could be wrong). So far it likes everything you throw at it. My M&P 15-22 is not as accurate as I like it to be(you can throw POI off torquing it) but it's fun to shoot. My Savage Mark 2 TR, very accurate. It should help me make better wind calls as well. I've shot it 100yds so far and it's more than capable. Some of that will transfer to my AR's. Even with the ammo crunch, it's still cheaper to shoot and when I do find some ammo I tend to buy a lot of it, both of my kids and I shoot 22's monthly so I try to keep as much on hand as possible. I do what George Az does. I print/make my own targets, many are 1in circles that I shoot regardless if it's 5.56 or 22LR. It gives me something to strive for that plain Jane bulls eye targets don't in my opinion.

 

[bunsen27]

So my questions is... are rimfire's accurate enough to practice precisions shooting for groups at 100 yards? I have a Marlin 60 with a 3x9 scope on it that's been collecting dust in the garage for a while and plenty of 22rl stocked up. Can I expect to get accurate consistent groups out of it or is that asking too much?

What is your definition of precision shooting of groups at 100yds? 1-2 MOA or less than 1MOA? If it's 1-2MOA then yes most 22's with decent ammo and calm conditions can consistently produce better than 2MOA groups. Although the internetz will tell you that a 1MOA or less group is possible "all day long" with nearly any Savage or CZ and CCI standard ammo....the reality is a bit different. Sure it is possible that a Savage or CZ and CCI ammo can produce a 1MOA group or less at 100yds, but the probability of it occurring for every single group is very low. If you want to consistantly produce 1MOA groups at 100yds you are going to have to look at a Win 52, Anz 64 or 54, Cooper, or a CZ455 with a Lija or other aftermarket barrel combined with a high quality target ammo on par with Eley black box or Lapua Center X.

Now, the good news is to reap the benefits of rimfire training you don't need to go down that path unless you WANT the highest level of accuracy possible. With the equipment you have you can certainly do some level of training/shooting and reap the benefits of it. One of my favorite past times is shooting small steel at 100yds to 200yds from every screwed up position I can think of or have encountered in a tactical match. 90 prone, high prone (12"-14"), barricades (step/port/wailing wall) at varying heights up to standing, cable spools, ect. If you have the resources and location to use it a VTac barricade is a great training tool.

http://www.vikingtactics.com/images/Build-A-Portable-VTAC-Training-Barricade.pdf


Sure punching paper off a bench or prone can get you to work on your fundementals of breathing, sight picture, and trigger squeeze but nothing drills those lessons home like a wobblying reticule that twitches with each breath and heartbeat. Get out there, shoot, and enjoy yourself!

My targets:

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

most of your rimfire rifles today are capable of shooting rather well with the ammo it likes, some weight or rim sorting of ammo steps it up a notch in the consistancy, but still is not 100%. precise enough though that once you know how your rifle and ammo behaves, you'll know when you pushed or pulled a shot vs. a round that is not quite up to par with the others. say for instance out of a 50 round session @ 100Y, i know i'll push or pull at least 5 (usually as the sear is released, i know what i didn't do correctly, and the hit is where anticipated due to the error) and can honestly say that on average 2 or 3 rounds just wasn't up to par with the rest. perhaps another way of looking at it is "predictability" shooting.

i'm not opening the MOA all day can of worms, but if you can do 3" or less at 100Y with 50 rounds, your still pulling off some sort of consistancy or predictability you can run with and calculate from. with ammo it likes, even your marlin 60 should be able to pull that off. probably better yet to get a bolt for training, that is if your primary centerfires are bolts. this'll help with muscle memory and sequencing after every shot, and all that good stuff.

as far as the training aspect, rimfires get you thinking about wind, angle shooting, ranging, mirage, etc. a whole lot once your "predictability" is known. past 100Y, it gets even more interesting. the slightest difference in grip, follow through, etc. becomes evident really quick.

after spending quality time on the rimfire, go back to the centerfire and you'll see just how well things transfer over.

even go the step as far as drop or wind drift goes to match up as much as you can with your centerfire....for instance, if your centerfire is doing X" of drift in a Xmph wind full value @ 500 yards, see at what distance your rimfire is doing the same amount of drift. that'll be your rimfire training distance for centerfire @ 500 yards. do the same for 300, 400, etc. if drop is more important to you, do it with elevation.

 

[Changed]

A 22 is great for working on your wind calls and holdoffs. It doesn't have to be surgical to get benefit. Its like an improved version of dry firing.

 

[SDmtnbkr]

This is great, thanks for all the input!! I'll definitely be taking the .22 out and seeing what I can do then!

 

[Fishman7]

any trigger time is better than none

 

[s a m]

22 is a great way to work out wind effect help you master your fundamentals for low cost. As for accuracy that is really gun dependant but don't expect too much from the ammo anyway. I am currently looking into a Maurader .177 as a bolt action trainer, this will allow me to shoot in my suburban back yard. Its a bit pricey but they last and are very accurate within 100 yards. But like Fishman7 said, any trigger time is better than none.

 

[usmcchet9296]

Under the right circumstances my CZ455 with a stock barrel will shoot 1inch (MOA) at 100 but in reality it's more like 1 1/2 inch with SK s+ or Wolf match. Could I tighten that up with better ammo maybe and could I tighten it up even more with a Lijia barrel.... sure but if Im shooting 1 to 1 1/2 inch I know Im doing good with my rig and the more expensive ammo and barrel are not needed right now. What I am getting with my CZ is much needed trigger time


CZ455PT-10-12 (1) by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr

 

[218bee]

nice CZ, USMCCHET.....i dig the stock...

 

[ivanthesane]

22 is a great way to work out wind effect help you master your fundamentals for low cost. As for accuracy that is really gun dependant but don't expect too much from the ammo anyway. I am currently looking into a Maurader .177 as a bolt action trainer, this will allow me to shoot in my suburban back yard. Its a bit pricey but they last and are very accurate within 100 yards. But like Fishman7 said, any trigger time is better than none.

If discharging a gun is legal in your yard and you are going air rifle to be polite to your neighbors, check out the CCI Quiet ammo - 40grn LRN at 710fps, out of a longer barrel it is near silent. My Mossy 44us w/ 26" barrel sounds like a pellet gun with this ammo.