So I'm planning on going all out and putting myself into debt with the purchase of either a Premier Heritage 5-25 or an S&B PMII 5-25 this will be going on an AE MK II 20". The rifle will be used from 200-1000 yards for punching paper and general hunting mostly groundhogs, some coyote, deer and possibly black bear. Was wondering what scope/reticle would be more geared towards what I'm looking to do. For example taking a tiny groundhog at 500 yards. I need to see a tiny target and not have the reticle obscure it.
Rifle Scopes Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
- Thread starter Jeeprider
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Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle. Not looking to drop 3k to find out I can't see smaller game at certain ranges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div>
Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle. Not looking to drop 3k to find out I can't see smaller game at certain ranges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div>
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
PH Gen 2 XR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
PH Gen 2 XR.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
S&B P4F reticle will do it also. Have shot at 5" targets at 1000 yards with my S&B 5-25x56 at matches without a problem getting a good sight picture. That would be my choice in reticle in the S&B for what you want to do.
S&B P4F reticle will do it also. Have shot at 5" targets at 1000 yards with my S&B 5-25x56 at matches without a problem getting a good sight picture. That would be my choice in reticle in the S&B for what you want to do.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle. Not looking to drop 3k to find out I can't see smaller game at certain ranges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
Why not ask in that thread instead of making a thread of pretty much the same scopes?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle. Not looking to drop 3k to find out I can't see smaller game at certain ranges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
Why not ask in that thread instead of making a thread of pretty much the same scopes?
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
Any reason the Gen 2 XR over S&B's offerings? Cleaner, finer reticle?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
PH Gen 2 XR. </div></div>
Any reason the Gen 2 XR over S&B's offerings? Cleaner, finer reticle?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
PH Gen 2 XR. </div></div>
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
I'm not looking to hijack someone elses post and if my post bothers you that much, why respond?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle. Not looking to drop 3k to find out I can't see smaller game at certain ranges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
Why not ask in that thread instead of making a thread of pretty much the same scopes? </div></div>
I'm not looking to hijack someone elses post and if my post bothers you that much, why respond?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't respond if you didn't read my entire post. I have already read that link and It doesn't touch on my question of tiny targets/hunting and which reticle. Not looking to drop 3k to find out I can't see smaller game at certain ranges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314424#Post2314424 </div></div> </div></div>
Why not ask in that thread instead of making a thread of pretty much the same scopes? </div></div>
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
Thanks brother that's the kind of info I was looking for. I have noticed you're a wealth of information I appreciate the in depth answer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B P4F reticle will do it also. Have shot at 5" targets at 1000 yards with my S&B 5-25x56 at matches without a problem getting a good sight picture. That would be my choice in reticle in the S&B for what you want to do. </div></div>
Thanks brother that's the kind of info I was looking for. I have noticed you're a wealth of information I appreciate the in depth answer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B P4F reticle will do it also. Have shot at 5" targets at 1000 yards with my S&B 5-25x56 at matches without a problem getting a good sight picture. That would be my choice in reticle in the S&B for what you want to do. </div></div>
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> For example taking a tiny groundhog at 500 yards. I need to see a tiny target and not have the reticle obscure it. </div></div>
As far as groundhogs go, I've killed them out to 763 yd using a P4 fine in my 5-25 S&B and had no issues with the reticle obscuring the target. I have Gen 2 XRs in my other 5-25s but prefer the P4 fine because of the more defined full mil hash marks and smaller half mil over the tiny dots and large half mil hash marks of the XR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaroguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> For example taking a tiny groundhog at 500 yards. I need to see a tiny target and not have the reticle obscure it. </div></div>
As far as groundhogs go, I've killed them out to 763 yd using a P4 fine in my 5-25 S&B and had no issues with the reticle obscuring the target. I have Gen 2 XRs in my other 5-25s but prefer the P4 fine because of the more defined full mil hash marks and smaller half mil over the tiny dots and large half mil hash marks of the XR.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
Jerry R thanks for the info, that's a long distance on a groundhog what caliber rifle were you using? I think I'm definitely leaning towards S&B after hearing that. Sounds like the P4 F might be better suited for my needs over the Gen 2 XR.
Jerry R thanks for the info, that's a long distance on a groundhog what caliber rifle were you using? I think I'm definitely leaning towards S&B after hearing that. Sounds like the P4 F might be better suited for my needs over the Gen 2 XR.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
That was done with a 243 Ackley and a 105 AMAX. It has taken seven so far over 700 yd and too many to count under that distance.
Trust me on this one, the S&B is the way to go. I have used both scopes mentioned and I have all S&Bs now.
I would even consider a straight up trade for a ccw 5-25 S&B with a P4F for one of mine with an XR.
That was done with a 243 Ackley and a 105 AMAX. It has taken seven so far over 700 yd and too many to count under that distance.
Trust me on this one, the S&B is the way to go. I have used both scopes mentioned and I have all S&Bs now.
I would even consider a straight up trade for a ccw 5-25 S&B with a P4F for one of mine with an XR.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
So what? The P4F is more user friendly. You even told me yourself that you prefer it to the XR. I can remember that conversation very clearly, David.
Shouldn't you be in bed? It's a little late for you to be up.
So what? The P4F is more user friendly. You even told me yourself that you prefer it to the XR. I can remember that conversation very clearly, David.
Shouldn't you be in bed? It's a little late for you to be up.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what? The P4F is more user friendly. You even told me yourself that you prefer it to the XR. I can remember that conversation very clearly, David.
Shouldn't you be in bed? It's a little late for you to be up. </div></div>
The OP is obviously concerned with the reticle obscuring the target and is looking for a fine reticle, so I think the thickness of the crosshairs is of some interest here. Nothing to do with my personal preferences in a reticle. I don't do any groundhog shooting and prefer a much thicker reticle myself.
I do remember a lot of conversations we had when you still worked for Premier, and there are several reasons why none of those belong in a discussion in a place like this, not the least of which having to do with a concept called "integrity". Let's just leave it at that and stick to stuff that might help the OP choosing the right tool for his job.
As to your concerns about my sleep hours, having returned from SHOT yesterday, I still seem to operate on Las Vegas time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what? The P4F is more user friendly. You even told me yourself that you prefer it to the XR. I can remember that conversation very clearly, David.
Shouldn't you be in bed? It's a little late for you to be up. </div></div>
The OP is obviously concerned with the reticle obscuring the target and is looking for a fine reticle, so I think the thickness of the crosshairs is of some interest here. Nothing to do with my personal preferences in a reticle. I don't do any groundhog shooting and prefer a much thicker reticle myself.
I do remember a lot of conversations we had when you still worked for Premier, and there are several reasons why none of those belong in a discussion in a place like this, not the least of which having to do with a concept called "integrity". Let's just leave it at that and stick to stuff that might help the OP choosing the right tool for his job.
As to your concerns about my sleep hours, having returned from SHOT yesterday, I still seem to operate on Las Vegas time.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
I'd also recommend the S&B 5-25 with the P4F, the difference in reticle thickness between the XR and P4F is about a half an inch at 1000 yards, pretty insignificant in the grand scheme.
To the OP, funny whistle pig story. I went over to Jerry's once while he was glassing for hogs out in the field when he spotted one at about 660-something. He got on his .243 AI w/ S&B 5-25 while I got on the spotter because I just had to see this. Well God bless that little hog's heart because I'm sure for all it knows it's still munching on grass somewhere. I saw perfect trace and dust fly off of it as he dusted that thing with a first round hit. The funny part was that Jerry got up and remembered that he hadn't checked the zero on that rifle in a while, he'd just taken it out that afternoon IIRC.
I'd also recommend the S&B 5-25 with the P4F, the difference in reticle thickness between the XR and P4F is about a half an inch at 1000 yards, pretty insignificant in the grand scheme.
To the OP, funny whistle pig story. I went over to Jerry's once while he was glassing for hogs out in the field when he spotted one at about 660-something. He got on his .243 AI w/ S&B 5-25 while I got on the spotter because I just had to see this. Well God bless that little hog's heart because I'm sure for all it knows it's still munching on grass somewhere. I saw perfect trace and dust fly off of it as he dusted that thing with a first round hit. The funny part was that Jerry got up and remembered that he hadn't checked the zero on that rifle in a while, he'd just taken it out that afternoon IIRC.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
Don't practice til you get it right, practice til you can't get it wrong!
David, while we can all appreciate your knowledge and technical advice I believe the OP is looking for field experience, something of which you have absolutely <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">none</span></span> to contribute to this thread. And those who know me also know that my intregrity has never been compromised or in question.
Don't practice til you get it right, practice til you can't get it wrong!
David, while we can all appreciate your knowledge and technical advice I believe the OP is looking for field experience, something of which you have absolutely <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">none</span></span> to contribute to this thread. And those who know me also know that my intregrity has never been compromised or in question.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
I've shot at chucks past 1,000 yards and haven't ever had a problem with the reticle blocking the chuck with a S&B 5-25 w/ P4F. Go with the S&B as it's a better reticle in a better scope in my opinion.
I've shot at chucks past 1,000 yards and haven't ever had a problem with the reticle blocking the chuck with a S&B 5-25 w/ P4F. Go with the S&B as it's a better reticle in a better scope in my opinion.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And those who know me also know that my intregrity has never been compromised or in question.</div></div>
I have known Jerry for years and can vouch for that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And those who know me also know that my intregrity has never been compromised or in question.</div></div>
I have known Jerry for years and can vouch for that.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
You are not going to have a problem with either obscuring the target.
For comparison, a golf ball has to be about 1K for my reticle to cover it up...if you are shooting a target small enough to be 0.025 mils...you are not going to hit it anyway.
You are not going to have a problem with either obscuring the target.
For comparison, a golf ball has to be about 1K for my reticle to cover it up...if you are shooting a target small enough to be 0.025 mils...you are not going to hit it anyway.
Re: Premier or S&B for hunting small targets
Picture is worth a thousand words. The steel is an 8" circle as is the black dot on the right with the 2" orange circle in the center. Picture is at 400 yards and at 25x. As you can see there will be no problem quartering 1/2 MOA sized targets with the P4F. Also the sight picture is much clearer in person. I suck at taking pics through the scope LOL
Picture is worth a thousand words. The steel is an 8" circle as is the black dot on the right with the 2" orange circle in the center. Picture is at 400 yards and at 25x. As you can see there will be no problem quartering 1/2 MOA sized targets with the P4F. Also the sight picture is much clearer in person. I suck at taking pics through the scope LOL
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