Rifle Scopes Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

[LibertyOptics]

Hiders,

I think it's important to announce the upcoming price adjustments for the new Horus reticle'd Premier Heritage and the new upcoming 2010 pricing.

The Horus H27 & H37 will be available in both the 3-15 and 5-25 PH, no later than December.

The price for this upgrade will be $800. That's $800 more than the Gen 2 mildot or Gen 2 XR versions.

Existing Heritage scopes can be retrofitted to either Horus reticle for $950 (this would handled between you and Premier).

Also, for 2010, count on a 15% price increase for all models of the Heritage when purchased through Liberty Optics.

Thanks for your consideration, and your support.

Scott

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

Scott, any news these days on my scope, im starting to get range fever? JK i know you are working on it. Im waiting patiently. So if down the road we want the Horus we send it directly to Premier, you are just passing the word on?

 

[hydro556]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

PM sent

 

[JRose]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

$800 just for the reticle???

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$800 just for the reticle???

</div></div>

Horus thinks highly of their stuff. When premier did swaps for S&B scopes it was $300 and I imagine the horus reticle itself is a few hundred.

 

[JRose]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

Do they charge PR more? It's a $400 option from USO.

 

[SingleShot85]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

I think...... its the reticle, H27 and H37, wich are not offered anywhere else. The 400 at USO was for the H25.

F'n Horus doubled the reticle upgrade to pay for the scopes they are not selling.

Oh well guess the plain ol'e GenII XL will have to do.....

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

There mighty pround of the reticle $800.00
I can do with out it

 

[Impact]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

when are the 2010 prices kicking in ?

 

[USMCj]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Impact</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when are the 2010 prices kicking in ? </div></div>

If I had to guess, I would say in 2010.....

 

[steve123]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

IMO,
Nothing personal to you Scott or Premier but an upgraded cost of $800 for a Horus reticle is just way tooooooooooo much.

Take me off the waiting list please!

Steve

 

[Lindy]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

Yeah, I like the Horus reticle, but not even close to that much.

 

[wildcard]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

You sure you didn't add too many zeroes to that "$800" figure? Might be worth it to somebody.. but way too much for me..

 

[Guns4570]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

Ok I can hear the rush lining up behind me to get an SN3 ordered with H-25.

 

[beaglestorm]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SINGLE.SHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think...... its the reticle, H27 and H37, wich are not offered anywhere else. The 400 at USO was for the H25. </div></div>

I have a USO SN-3 5-25 with a H-37. The SN3 3-17 standard horus option is the H25, the 3x22 are H-38's and the 5x25 are h37's., never seen the H27 in a USO but they could probably do it for a price.

 

[Rem700p]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

I understand how good the Horus reticles are and why people like them. But why on God's green earth are people willing to support a company that can only deliver 1 in 12(or whatever the number is) good reticles and at $400 a piece to USO? Now they'll be available in Premier scopes for only the extra added cost of $800?

Like I said, I understand the concept and the ease of use, but that is just too ridiculous to support or am I missing something here?

 

[hydro556]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

If someone likes the Horus reticule enough to drop $800 on it, I am amazed. I can buy a lot of reloading components, a decked out Dillon press, a nice hunting optic, a nice pair of binos, set of tires for my truck, and the list goes on and on. And people are willing to drop this on a reticule that "allows" them not to have to dial in elevation? Bizarre is what it is to me.

If they were shooting for exclusivity through prohibitive pricing, I believe they yanked one out of the yard brothers.

 

[338LM]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

$800 ROFLMAO

 

[USMCj]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 list

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 338LM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$800 ROFLMAO </div></div>

What he said.

 

[JRose]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand how good the Horus reticles are and why people like them. But why on God's green earth are people willing to support a company that can only deliver 1 in 12(or whatever the number is) good reticles and at $400 a piece to USO? Now they'll be available in Premier scopes for only the extra added cost of $800?

Like I said, I understand the concept and the ease of use, but that is just too ridiculous to support or am I missing something here? </div></div>

Well put, I;ve actually thought about giving up on the Horus reticle for that very reason... Such a shitty company, that WAY overcharges.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Just a thought for those who find $800 a bit high.

From my web page Calculating Holdovers and Holdunders:

You are most likely to want to use holdovers and holdunders at relatively short ranges.

Consider the typical dope chart for a .308 above. Using a 100 yard zero, you can use that zero on a scope with 5 mils of marks below the main crosshairs to shoot out to 600 yards, without touching the elevation dial, using only holdovers.

To calculate those holdovers, just divide your MOA data by 3.438 to convert it to mils. Using the typical chart above, that will give you the following holdovers, rounded to the nearest 10th of a milliradian:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Range HoldOver
100 0
200 0.6
300 1.5
400 2.3
500 3.3
600 4.7
</pre></div></div>

Memorize those numbers, or whatever applies where you mostly shoot, and you’ll be able to hit targets out to 600 yards without touching your scope. Nor will you have to remember which way to hold, because it’s all holdovers, just like using a Horus reticle. And that is the essence of efficient fighting with a precision rifle.

 

[Rem700p]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

I redid the math like 5 times. I may have still done it wrong though.

5-25 PH = $2699
2010 15% = $404.85
Total = 3103.85

That's without the Horus.

w/ Horus
5-25 PH = $3499
2010 15% = $524.85
Total = $4023.85

wow...

Scott,

I got my rings in last Friday. Thanks for the great service.

Stephen

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Hmmm...I think the optics on my VXIII-LRT suddenly got so much better.

For the price of a Premier with Horus, I can get a change barrel carbon fiber wrapped AR from KK Jense and a Zeiss Conquest scope with Rapid Z reticle.

Blah

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

For less money I'd rather see a DTac reticle for 175SMK's or 115Dtacs.......

 

[Fortis]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

I've only had my PR for about 4 months (thanks Scott), During that time I found that the design and size of the Knobs on the Heritage make it the easiest scope I've ever used to dial dope on, and the reticule (Gen II mildot)makes the short range stuff a breeze.

I actually took my rifle out tonight and played with dialing in different ranges and wind. Did some in darkness (the MTC's kick ass) and some with the porch light on. I didn't put a stopwatch to it but I'm guessing each change from O-E/O-W only took 3-5 seconds, and I know right where my aiming point is every time.

I have only shot one rifle with a Hourus Reticule in it (H-25 I think) and I found myself double and triple checking to make sure I was on the right lines. I know with the limited time I've had using the scope I am far from knowing how to use it well, and I'm sure it becomes very fast with practice. I just can't help thinking the margin for error is greater under stress than dialed dope and a single aiming point. I also wasn't to keen on how much FOV it took up. Except for the gee wizz factor $800 bucks just seems like a waste of money on a scope that is already so well designed.

Just thinking out loud.
Kit

 

[SoundFx]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

I'm a very big fan of the Horus concept, but I must say this will probably be a recipe for me looking elsewhere.

I'm all for treating intellectual property as a quantifiably valuable commodity, and that people should be well compensated for quality craftsmanship on the conceptual end. But, such things need to be priced in a reasonable way. That pricing is simply not going to happen for a lot of us. Not so much that we can't afford it (though 4k for an optic??), but as a fundamental rejection to the lasting sting of being over-charged. Not too many folks who like the PT Barnum treatment here, I would imagine.

Really had my heart set on this exact setup. But, me no likey being treated like an ATM machine, either.

Good luck to all companies involved, no spite intended. Just thought I'd share my humble opinion on the matter.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I just can't help thinking the margin for error is greater under stress than dialed dope and a single aiming point.</div></div>

You might not think that if you had seen as many people screw up dialing dope as I have.

There's nothing wrong with dialing dope - if you have the time. Not dialing is faster - and you never have to take your eye of the target(s).

But, as I noted above, a conventional graduated reticle can be used like a Horus, albeit without as convenient windage marks.

As Jacob Bynum points out, "Successful application of the precision rifle is a lot more about thinking than shooting." Training and practice make the thinking easier.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

If the math is correct they would seem to be pricing themselves out of their business........

 

[jasonk]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Maybe Premier thinks Horus is a pain in the ass to deal with, install and warranty so to make it worth their while to deal with them they are charging a premium. I'm sure Premier would rather see everyone get the Gen II or XR anyway.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Some things are priced for the military market, especially if they are unique (i.e., there is no competition) and meet a requirement. I gulped when I paid USO $400 additional for an H38!

 

[JBW3]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe Premier thinks Horus is a pain in the ass to deal with, install and warranty .... </div></div>

That makes 2 of us!
John III

 

[ohiofarmer]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Before seeing the $800 upgrade fee, I was certain there was a Premier 5-25 with the Horus in my future. Not anymore.

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Just got 2 with the gen 2 XR reticle , NO NEED FOR A HORUS AT 800 bucks

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Hiders,

Thanks for the excellent feedback. I'm the messenger and I float this out there for your perusal. Make no mistake, $800 would be MY COST, I choose to have zero markup on this option. I get criticized for not being a money-making machine but your trust and loyalty is paramount to our mission. You know this.

It looks like the price point for the Horus will eliminate about 90% of the potential orders for this option. This is exactly the info I needed. Thank you very much.

Scott

 

[Rem700p]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Scott and John,

Has anyone explained to Horus, that if they dropped the prices on their reticles they'd probably sell a shitload more of them. Which would keep them from having to charge $400-$800. I know if I didn't have to pay an extra $400 for one, I'd have one in my USO. Actually, if the price was comparable with others, I'd probably have a Horus in ALL my scopes.

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

I did not mean to say that the Horus reticle was not worth it just that for the $800.00 I would pick the gen 2 XR just an opinion .
I am sure that the ones who already have them like it and will stick with it . but for me 4 scopes at $800.00 is $3200 additional

 

[SoundFx]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott and John,

Has anyone explained to Horus, that if they dropped the prices on their reticles they'd probably sell a shitload more of them. Which would keep them from having to charge $400-$800. I know if I didn't have to pay an extra $400 for one, I'd have one in my USO. Actually, if the price was comparable with others, I'd probably have a Horus in ALL my scopes. </div></div>

And to think I considered $400 semi-reasonable...

 

[Lindy]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone explained to Horus, that if they dropped the prices on their reticles they'd probably sell a shitload more of them.</div></div>

You're assuming that those folks are concerned about maximizing their profits. Their business practices over the years have created serious doubts about that assumption.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

I still think that the DTAC 30.175.2650 reticle would be an awesome option for the Premiers.
Did S&B install the DTACS in their scopes or was it a third party?

Horus can pound salt.

 

[Rem700p]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

LOL I just went to the David Tubbs website to check out the DTAC and I think my brain just melted reading that stuff. I guess it looks harder than it is to use. Just seems like a lot of stuff in the FOV spread out all over the place.

 

[NOmag]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I;ve actually thought about giving up on the Horus reticle for that very reason... Such a shitty company, that WAY overcharges. </div></div>

I did that very thing and moved on a while back!!!! Great concept but as you put it they lack in every other way!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JBW#3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe Premier thinks Horus is a pain in the ass to deal with, install and warranty .... </div></div>

That makes 2 of us!
John III </div></div>


Jonh thanks for getting me to giggle today I needed that!!


NOmag

 

[JBW3]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

NOmag, Pleasure is all mine!


I don't want to hijack the thread, but I really have had a hard time working with Horus in the last year or so. Communication is hardly existent. The products that they are selling to us will only pass QC about 10% of the time, which really pisses off my customers that have been waiting for months and months for a reticle.
I have a great working relationship with Premier and licensing of their GEN II reticles. I would like to have that same relationship with Horus.
Enough said.
Chris, if you are watching, drop me a line.
Thanks,
John III

 

[gugubica]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

With the reports from John and customers waiting for his stuff, I can not blame Premier for the high cost. If I were turning out scopes, my cost to deal with Horus would be a lot higher.

I think they are hoping that no one will order one!

 

[steve123]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

Will somebody please buy out Horus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rem700p]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will somebody please buy out Horus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</div></div>

+1

If they don't care about profits, then I'll buy them out for $5 and some once used .22lr brass that fell into my range bag. Then I'll trade the rights to John for a new scope

 

[LongArm]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

At the risk of getting flamed how are horus's factory scopes? I like the reticle but can't afford the scopes that y'all are talking about much less the $800 upgrades. I am just wondering about the factory scopes.
Any info will help.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LongArm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At the risk of getting flamed how are horus's factory scopes? I like the reticle but can't afford the scopes that y'all are talking about much less the $800 upgrades. I am just wondering about the factory scopes.
Any info will help. </div></div>

LongArm -

I have had a great deal of success with my Horus Vision scopes (Falcon, Raptor and Predator) and have had great service by going through a dealer (who deals with any and all headaches) instead of direct from Horus.

Jense Precision offers the full line of Horus Vision, plus he has excellent customer service. Check him out and place your order.

 

[JRose]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

LA, PM sent, I have an extra Horus I'll sell...

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

JRose

What model Horus?

 

[MikeeBooshay]

Re: Pricing: Premier Heritage w/ Horus & 2010 lis

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LongArm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At the risk of getting flamed how are horus's factory scopes? I like the reticle but can't afford the scopes that y'all are talking about much less the $800 upgrades. I am just wondering about the factory scopes.
Any info will help. </div></div>

I have three of their scopes. The first one had to be sent back because the thing wouldn't focus, no problem with the other three. The distributor had HELL sending it back, and vowed to order no more of them.... sad, but that scope on pig sounders is absolute murder! The best I have done so far is six, DRT and I might have got half that many with another reticle.

Debating a USO with that reticle as we speak....