Rifle Scopes Primary arms 4-16 SFP - Reticle help

[zanderfever]

Hello, everybody. New to Snipers Hide as well as precision shooting. What I have is far from ideal, but it’s what I have and can afford so I am fully aware I need to upgrade.

I have a Primary Arms 4-16 SFP scope on a Remington 700 SPS in 6.5 Creedmoor. What I am having a frustrating time with is that I don’t know how the scope’s reticle is set up. There is no literature given with the scope to tell me what the dots are representing.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-4-16x44-illuminated-mil-dot-scope-pa416x

That is the scope, the last image is the reticle. What I’m nervous about is I suspect the dots might be mild but the turrets are MOA. Any specifics would be really helpful.

Thank you

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Per their website the scope ranges at 16X and the knob adjustments are 0.25 moa. The standard mildot is 0.2mil, the reticle is also a standard milliradian reticle so your suspicions would be correct that reticle and adjustments are not the same to each other.

 

[zanderfever]

Per their website the scope ranges at 16X and the knob adjustments are 0.25 moa. The standard mildot is 0.2mil, the reticle is also a standard milliradian reticle so your suspicions would be correct that reticle and adjustments are not the same to each other.

Thank you. I will see if I can get a refund for it and get a reticle that makes more sense. Thank you.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

Thank you. I will see if I can get a refund for it and get a reticle that makes more sense. Thank you.

Yup, your current scope is mixed: .25 MOA clicks, mil-dot reticle. I'd recommend that you undo that purchase, if possible.

While you're at it, jump up to FFP if you can swing it. Under $300, I'd look at:
Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44 APLR2 tree-style reticle (MRAD/MRAD)
Primary Arms 4-14x44 R-GRID tree-style reticle (MRAD/MRAD)

At high magnification (long range), I like the Athlon APLR2 reticle better. At low magnification (tactical and hunting), I prefer the Primary Arms R-GRID (horseshoe gets tiny and becomes the aiming point).

About inexpensive scopes: mechanical turret tracking is often hit-or-miss, but reticles are etched in glass. Put another way, a FFP tree-style reticle gives you the option to never touch the turrets until your hold drops out of the visible reticle.

And then there's the $300 SWFA fixed power with Mil-Quad reticle. A 10X or 12X will get you out to 1000 yards no problem. 16X will take your 6.5CM to a mile, if the air is thin enough. Better turrets, glass and ruggedness than the Athlon and PA FFP variables mentioned above, but no illumination, variable magnification, or tree reticle options.

 

[zanderfever]

Yup, your current scope is mixed: .25 MOA clicks, mil-dot reticle. I'd recommend that you undo that purchase, if possible.

While you're at it, jump up to FFP if you can swing it. Under $300, I'd look at:
Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44 APLR2 tree-style reticle (MRAD/MRAD)
Primary Arms 4-14x44 R-GRID tree-style reticle (MRAD/MRAD)

At high magnification (long range), I like the Athlon APLR2 reticle better. At low magnification (tactical and hunting), I prefer the Primary Arms R-GRID (horseshoe gets tiny and becomes the aiming point).

About inexpensive scopes: mechanical turret tracking is often hit-or-miss, but reticles are etched in glass. Put another way, a FFP tree-style reticle gives you the option to never touch the turrets until your hold drops out of the visible reticle.

And then there's the $300 SWFA fixed power with Mil-Quad reticle. A 10X or 12X will get you out to 1000 yards no problem. 16X will take your 6.5CM to a mile, if the air is thin enough. Better turrets, glass and ruggedness than the Athlon and PA FFP variables mentioned above, but no illumination, variable magnification, or tree reticle options.

Thank you, that is super helpful. I really appreciate the response. Just for the sake of complicating things, what about Vortex optics under $6-700? I can get them for pretty decent discounts off MSRP through work (gun store/range) and I (should) have discounts since we sell their optics. So if that is the case, what about the diamondback tactical 4-14? 16? Tactical option. That one looked good to me and would be a step above. That being said if I can’t get a full refund that won’t happen, or if they say exchange for another primary arms I’ll go for your suggestions.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

So if that is the case, what about the diamondback tactical 4-14? 16? Tactical option. That one looked good to me and would be a step above.

If you want to stretch out your 6.5CM to long ranges, I'd avoid the Diamondback: it only has 25 MOA of internal elevation travel. The Athlon and PA options have 70 and 60 MOA respectively, enough for 1000 yards with a 20 MOA base. You won't be able to dial in drop for 1000 yards on the Diamondback.

 

[zanderfever]

If you want to stretch out your 6.5CM to long ranges, I'd avoid the Diamondback: it only has 25 MOA of internal elevation travel. The Athlon and PA options have 70 and 60 MOA respectively, enough for 1000 yards with a 20 MOA base. You won't be able to dial in drop for 1000 yards on the Diamondback.

Would the tracking be accurate enough with those two? I’m kind of thinking that even with the smaller MOA travel of the diamondback it would track more accurately and I can use the reticle itself for a good portion of the drop? Or am I just showing my complete noob self with that thought?

 

[308pirate]

Get a SWFA scope. You will NOT have to worry about accurate tracking or ruggedness. They are also Japanese made.

Japan > China in just about every possible way except maybe price.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

I’m kind of thinking that even with the smaller MOA travel of the diamondback it would track more accurately

I’m not convinced this is a good assumption. I wouldn’t trade for the known problem of inadequate internal travel to avoid a potential problem of turret tracking error. If there is some error in the click values (eg clicks are 0.11 MRAD instead of 0.10 MRAD), you can account for it in some ballistic calculators. For 6.5CM, I’d hold out for at least 60 MOA internal travel, 100+ MOA if you want to reach out a mile.

For reference, a $800-ish Leupold VX3 LRP 4.5-14x50 has 110 MOA internal travel.

 

[zanderfever]

I’m not convinced this is a good assumption. I wouldn’t trade for the known problem of inadequate internal travel to avoid a potential problem of turret tracking error. If there is some error in the click values (eg clicks are 0.11 MRAD instead of 0.10 MRAD), you can account for it in some ballistic calculators. For 6.5CM, I’d hold out for at least 60 MOA internal travel, 100+ MOA if you want to reach out a mile.

For reference, a $800-ish Leupold VX3 LRP 4.5-14x50 has 110 MOA internal travel.

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. I know I won’t be shooting a mile, maybe 1100? 1200 yards at most? Does that change your suggestions at all?

 

[zanderfever]

Get a SWFA scope. You will NOT have to worry about accurate tracking or ruggedness. They are also Japanese made.

Japan > China in just about every possible way except maybe price.

My half Japanese self likes this, haha

 

[SageRatSafaris]

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. I know I won’t be shooting a mile, maybe 1100? 1200 yards at most? Does that change your suggestions at all?

I still recommend at least 60 MOA of internal travel and a 20 MOA base (for about 50 MOA available drop adjustment). 50 MOA will take 6.5CM out to 1300-ish yards.

 

[308pirate]

I’m kind of thinking that even with the smaller MOA travel of the diamondback it would track more accurately

That is 100% speculation

 

[zanderfever]

That is 100% speculation

Yes it is speculation. That’s a thought I’ve had and something I’ve seen represented in some reviews of cheaper scopes.

I still recommend at least 60 MOA of internal travel and a 20 MOA base (for about 50 MOA available drop adjustment). 50 MOA will take 6.5CM out to 1300-ish yards.

Ill make that a goal for the scope I choose.

 

[zanderfever]

Ordered the SWFA 12x MOA scope. Should be here Wednesday.

 

[308pirate]

Ordered the SWFA 12x MOA scope. Should be here Wednesday.

Excellent choice

 

[gripitright]

Per their website the scope ranges at 16X and the knob adjustments are 0.25 moa. The standard mildot is 0.2mil, the reticle is also a standard milliradian reticle so your suspicions would be correct that reticle and adjustments are not the same to each other.

And today! they still aren't changed to correctly match MOA turrets to an MOA reticle!

 

[marsh1]

And today! they still aren't changed to correctly match MOA turrets to an MOA reticle!

This is a legacy $169 entry level scope that is at end of life.