PRIME Ammo Out of Stock?

[Sportin Wood]

I regularly check PRIME's website to check if they have any announcement of when my pre-ordered 6 Creedmoor ammo will be shipped and I noticed today that when I was on their Shop Ammunition page, every single option for every caliber from 22lr to 308 to 12 gauge and 9mm are all out of stock and not available for purchase. Is anyone having this issue or have the ammunition subscription? I've been thinking about signing up for it.

 

[blbennett1288]

They are moving from California to Tennessee, I suspect that is why there is no availability

 

[Racer88]

They've been out of stock for MONTHS. I suspect something else is going on... Not just a move. I gave up on them. I've found other ammo that works well for me.

 

[deanq]

I asked my LGS (who sells Prime ammo) what was up with no available Prime ammo. "He said" they were negotiating a new production deal, and hopefully would hear something in a few weeks. That's my "heard it" rumor and I'm sticking with it.

 

[Novak77]

They've been out of stock for MONTHS. I suspect something else is going on... Not just a move. I gave up on them. I've found other ammo that works well for me.

^^^ This ^^^

I've never shot their stuff, but was looking to get some. Since at least September the've been out of everything.

 

[footsteps]

How long can it actually take to move and ramp up production? ????

 

[deanq]

How long can it actually take to move and ramp up production? ????

They don't "make" ammo. They contract out production to a manufacturer (currently European).

 

[Wrongtarget]

It’s disappointing on the lack of communication for sure. It was all I shot for 18 months. Moved to Hornady.

 

[AverageGrunt]

Too many sales and other ways to get March ammo for same or less price to bother with them. Cabelas has hornady match for 25 a box currently and on and on

 

[Lowlight]

Prime is having an issue with RUAG, so there is nothing being sold or brought in while they are fighting.

Hopefully, it will be solved, it may be a case of a recipe change because of it, but I suspect Prime will move forward in a better way.

But they are in a battle, and I have been talking to Jim about it, RUAG wants to re-introduce NORMA to the US market, but Prime sits right in their path, that is part of it, not all, but a big part of it, there was some political things that happened too, which is always the case.

 

[thaflash_la]

Is that also a factor in the limited availability of Norma bullets? Or is this only regarding loaded ammunition?

 

[Lowlight]

They had a change at RUAG, and that change wants to enter the US market in a stronger way.

Plus my understanding from SHOT is the Army is spec'ing Norma components for certain aspects moving forward when it comes to precision rifle ammo.

I believe the supply is on RUAG and that has not affected Prime in any way, this is more a money/politics, etc and not a supply issue, it's about wanting a bigger piece of the demand, as they tend to lose money here.

Most were surprised by the level of Prime success, so the questions come up, why aren't we more successful when it's our product inside the box.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Prime is having an issue with RUAG, so there is nothing being sold or brought in while they are fighting.

Hopefully, it will be solved, it may be a case of a recipe change because of it, but I suspect Prime will move forward in a better way.

But they are in a battle, and I have been talking to Jim about it, RUAG wants to re-introduce NORMA to the US market, but Prime sits right in their path, that is part of it, not all, but a big part of it, there was some political things that happened too, which is always the case.

Thanks for this. I talked the better part of an hour with Jim when he called to thank me for ordering two cases of 6.5CM rounds - conversation almost all about .22. I was really impressed with him. I bought a case of the 40grain subsonic hollow points during the big moving sale, expecting it to be as good as the centerfire ammo (especially after our conversation). Sadly, CCI SV shoots far better in every .22 I and my buddies own; I've thought a time or two about calling him to talk about whys&wherefores but, based on what I've ready here on the Hide, figured he's already had more than enough grief about it without my asking "what happened."

And now this.

Hoping he gets sourcing issues resolved.

 

[deanq]

Most were surprised by the level of Prime success, so the questions come up, why aren't we more successful when it's our product inside the box.

That's almost funny. No one ever called me when I bought Norma ammo.

 

[Hippy_Steve]

I just got my first 6.5 creedmoor rifle a few months ago, and I've been wanting to buy a couple cases of Prime ammo. At first I though the lack of supply was due to the move, but this thread has been informative. I wish the best to the guys running Prime, and hope that things get resolved soon.

 

[LukeTheDuke]

Marketing and building a brand is hard work. I don’t think many manufacturers really want to do what it takes to build relationships with influencers (competitors and the like) and customers like Jim has done with Prime. Paying attention to the customer and making them feel appreciated takes time and personal attention. Jim's worked hard by putting in the time and paying attention, and he’s done a great job of building the PRIME brand while bringing a great product to market. I wish him well in his efforts to renew his RUAG deal or fine one better! Supply chain issues can be tough!
Thanks for the insight on what’s happening with him & PRIME, Frank!

 

[Racer88]

^^^ This ^^^

I've never shot their stuff, but was looking to get some. Since at least September the've been out of everything.

It's good ammo. Or should I say, "It WAS good ammo." But, it's not the only good ammo.

 

[Racer88]

Ah.... just read Lowlight's comments. That's sad they're having those issues. They had a good product and excellent service. I got the call from Jim, too, when I bought my first bit of their ammo. I mean, who does THAT (kind of personalized service) these days???? THAT will lead, inevitably, to success.

I hope they can sort things out (maybe make their own ammo?) and get back in the game. If they put out a good product and offer that same, excellent service, they'll make it.

 

[Nik H]

I'm glad I stocked up on the 6.5 CM but it won't last forever

 

[ClosetCaseNerd]

Jim was certainly a nice touch to any interactions with PRIME ammo. My wife proudly wears her shirt they sent. I hope they get it sorted - if not - Jim will be successful in whatever he pursues.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I met Jim at the Grind a couple years ago when he shot as an amateur. He seemed like a great guy all around with some solid business sense. Hopefully they can get this worked out and get ammo flowing again, as I know a bunch of people that have been running it.

 

[6xcKY]

I've got a new 6mm Creed and I have been dying to try some of their ammo out in it, but looks like I am going to just test the Hornady and FGMM and choose between them.

 

[simpy16]

I also really like Prime, used their ammo successfully in matches, got a call from Jim and tell people about the quality of it all the time. They are doing a lot of things really right but the biggest problem them have is that their products are completely depending on someone else. That usually never ends well when you are the "middle man" in the line.

 

[drshoot]

How does RUAG think they can play in this market? The PRIME ammo is a "get what you pay for product". Norma brass might be very good but it's overpriced for the market. I'm not implying that they are going to ask for it, but if they think they are going to get "Applied Ballistics Ammo" money for their product because of PRIME's excellent marketing they are delusional.

 

[brianf]

if its as lowlight says, thats why you never want to be the middle man.
sounds like they were short sighted with their business plan.
as soon as a middle man is having success the primary supplier is working to get around them instantly.
thats just business

i feel bad for Prime but it happens all day every day

 

[hlee]

How does RUAG think they can play in this market? The PRIME ammo is a "get what you pay for product". Norma brass might be very good but it's overpriced for the market. I'm not implying that they are going to ask for it, but if they think they are going to get "Applied Ballistics Ammo" money for their product because of PRIME's excellent marketing they are delusional.

If Prime can get $X per box then RUAG should be able to get $X-(primer's profit) per box, because they wouldn't sell to Prime at a loss. Will that happen? No, they'll try to get $X, because that is what Prime was getting. And, they will probably try to trade on Norma's name to get $X+(something more) per box, because NORMA... Prime has already created the market by being successful. Then they went and told everyone what was in the box. If RUAG can't be successful from here, that's a colossal marketing failure.

 

[drshoot]

Show of hands: who would buy RUAG knowing they were screwing PRIME? Would you buy it if it was $1.83/rnd vs $1.33/rnd and a 200 rnd case was $366 instead of $266? I too realize this is marketing, but I don't know that I would pay the money.
I know with brass I have no problem paying a dollar for Lapua but for some reason I seem to be physically appalled that Norma is twice as much.
I hear my father in my head now: "Penny wise and pound foolish"

 

[Bradu]

Show of hands: who would buy RUAG knowing they were screwing PRIME? Would you buy it if it was $1.83/rnd vs $1.33/rnd and a 200 rnd case was $366 instead of $266? I too realize this is marketing, but I don't know that I would pay the money.
I know with brass I have no problem paying a dollar for Lapua but for some reason I seem to be physically appalled that Norma is twice as much.
I hear my father in my head now: "Penny wise and pound foolish"

Plenty of people will buy it and not give a shit if it is as good as before. If they cut out the middleman and make it cheaper then it will sell as fast as they can make it.

 

[brianf]

Show of hands: who would buy RUAG knowing they were screwing PRIME? Would you buy it if it was $1.83/rnd vs $1.33/rnd and a 200 rnd case was $366 instead of $266? I too realize this is marketing, but I don't know that I would pay the money.
I know with brass I have no problem paying a dollar for Lapua but for some reason I seem to be physically appalled that Norma is twice as much.
I hear my father in my head now: "Penny wise and pound foolish"

Flip side all of the Prime decilpes are hung out to dry with no info or ammo.

Prime may want loyalty yet they have not communicated that “ruag is trying to screw us so hang on”.

So your out of ammo with no end in sight.

It works both ways.

Just playing devils advicate

 

[drshoot]

Can't argue with that.

 

[Lowlight]

they have been communicating and in fact, they have been going at this for a couple of months,

Jim has offered me several "Letters to the Editor" to explain the situation, but at the same time they are not sitting around and doing nothing waiting for this play out. The fact they are not "informing" you of their personal or professional business is really not your or my place to comment. It works both ways if they start talking to US, you begin to piss off THEM. Europe does not like public conversations about private matters. You start airing dirty laundry in public and that shuts the conversations down.

But they have been talking to people and they have been looking at other solutions. Enough said,

This is several months old, and in fact, they were hoping it would be have been sorted out by now. It should have been done by SHOT.

But when the parent company decides you are in their way, how can Prime control this? they had contracts in place, those were placed on hold while this gets sorted out. The fact they are not keeping you informed is a business decision that well beyond your pay grade, they are not doing this to hurt the customers, which is why it says out of stock.

It's more important to work it out quickly, vs airing a bunch of dirty laundry that just pisses the other side off

 

[Schuhanks]

When they restock I will rejoin the prime movement in Hope's it's as good as it once was!

 

[brianf]

Not starting a pissing match:
my customers don’t care if I’m having a supply issue, thats my problem.
Customer satisfaction is what counts, the next purchase order is what pays the bills not the current one.
If my particular supplier has contract issues it’s up to me to resource AND to inform my customer there is a issue.
I can spin it anyway I need to, that’s my problem.
Someone has to fall on the sword and it’s not the customer.
Suppliers and customers are called business partners for a reason.
My company purchases material from approx 30 countries and I sell regulated product to about 70-80.
Information is king.

 

[Nik H]

Show of hands: who would buy RUAG knowing they were screwing PRIME? Would you buy it if it was $1.83/rnd vs $1.33/rnd and a 200 rnd case was $366 instead of $266? I too realize this is marketing, but I don't know that I would pay the money.
I know with brass I have no problem paying a dollar for Lapua but for some reason I seem to be physically appalled that Norma is twice as much.
I hear my father in my head now: "Penny wise and pound foolish"

I wouldn't spend $1.83/round. I use PRIME but also shoot a lot of Hornady ELDM which is $1.15/round. I don't get to shoot beyond 600 yards very often. Hornady works fine. When I do get to shoot at 1,000 or greater, it is PRIME because it is faster and doesn't drop as much. At 1,400 yards, it is more consistent and requires 1.2 mils less elevation change IMHO.

However, if it suddenly costs 50 cents/round more than Hornady, I would probably only use Hornady.

 

[knuckleballz]

Seeing this thread makes me feel justified in stacking cases of prime when they had sales. The prime 6.5 boxes fit great in 30 cal cans. They won me over with their product and customer service. I'll be back for more from prime

 

[Winny94]

Show of hands: who would buy RUAG knowing they were screwing PRIME? Would you buy it if it was $1.83/rnd vs $1.33/rnd and a 200 rnd case was $366 instead of $266? I too realize this is marketing, but I don't know that I would pay the money.
I know with brass I have no problem paying a dollar for Lapua but for some reason I seem to be physically appalled that Norma is twice as much.
I hear my father in my head now: "Penny wise and pound foolish"

I wouldnt really say RUAG is screwing Prime (assuming there is no breach of contract, etc.) It's shrewd, but not nafarious.

 

[Winny94]

Has anyone gotten a definitive answer as to if Prime is rebranded Norma Match? I've always had better luck with Norma Match (from a SD perspective), but never compared both out of the same rifle.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

How does RUAG think they can play in this market? The PRIME ammo is a "get what you pay for product". Norma brass might be very good but it's overpriced for the market. I'm not implying that they are going to ask for it, but if they think they are going to get "Applied Ballistics Ammo" money for their product because of PRIME's excellent marketing they are delusional.

ABM ammo is now Berger ammo.. and the price has come down on a lot of there stuff to where it is in line with the price of Prime..

I think in Franks Podcast with Berger ammo they said they where using Lapua Brass....

 

[Sportin Wood]

It doesn't need to be a piss fest between PRIME and RUAG, but something from PRIME other than posts on their Facebook page of their sponsored shooters getting ammo. Just a heads up that they are trying to get something figured out and ammo back on the shelves.

 

[simpy16]

It doesn't need to be a piss fest between PRIME and RUAG, but something from PRIME other than posts on their Facebook page of their sponsored shooters getting ammo. Just a heads up that they are trying to get something figured out and ammo back on the shelves.

This feels like the times when you are watching cable or dish and they have the "PSA" that said entity is in talks with a certain channel and they try to let you know "they are working hard to find a resolution" but inevitably they try to put a certain spin on it to push any blame off them and onto the network. I think in the end the consumer does not really care either way just that the issue is ultimately affecting the end user the most.

 

[drshoot]

I wouldnt really say RUAG is screwing Prime (assuming there is no breach of contract, etc.) It's shrewd, but not nafarious.

Well said. It's just business.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Thinking out loud here. I have no idea what kind of profit Prime has been making or what kind of financial shape they are in, but I wonder if they got the capital to invest in machinery and people and start actually making their own ammo here in the US............

 

[drshoot]

Thinking out loud here. I have no idea what kind of profit Prime has been making or what kind of financial shape they are in, but I wonder if they got the capital to invest in machinery and people and start actually making their own ammo here in the US............

The only problem is the decades of experience that went into making the product that RUAG can make.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

I spoke with them at the NRA Convention earlier last year in Dallas, and I was really wanting to try their ammo. I guess I may be outta luck now...at least for a while. Hopefully, they can get things worked out.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

It doesn't need to be a piss fest between PRIME and RUAG, but something from PRIME other than posts on their Facebook page of their sponsored shooters getting ammo. Just a heads up that they are trying to get something figured out and ammo back on the shelves.

This right here. Even just a simple update so people don't write them off like Freedom Munitions as an ammo manufacturer who boomed for a little bit, got a lot of good publicity, then imploded.

 

[Lowlight]

Again, you guys are missing the big picture

1. None of you have a contract with Prime, how and where you buy ammo is an open and free market

2. This is being handled internally and airing dirty laundry in the middle of a mediation is not gonna fly

3. You have been updated, I twice now if not 3x mentioned why they were outta stock, as this was not the first post on the subject.

4. Nobody said Prime is only gonna sell only RUAG moving forward. They had a long term contract since that contract is no longer in effect, it's opened the door.

5. If you have not tried Prime by now, and are complaining, you're an asshole, seriously, posts that say, "gee I guess I can't try it now" classic and not a good way.

6. there are have been varying degrees of negotiations on the subject, each one could have resulted in a solution, so why go public and step on all the hard work by trying to fight the battle in public.

7. European companies do things differently and honestly, don't understand the US Market. RUAG too thought Hillary was gonna win and placed bets on such when it didn't happen, politics takes over and you can do very little about that.

Whine, whine, whine, I bet more than 1/2 here never shot a box of Prime ammo. If it was settled at SHOT nobody would have been the wiser, and frankly, it's nobody's business. Nobody here has an open contract with Prime for ammo. They have a supply, it's in their warehouse, it is just frozen, the day this is settled the doors will open and ammo will flow again. It's not like there is NO AMMO, it's just frozen in place.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

^ Makes sense

 

[mm509]

I have spoken with Jim about this on numerous occasions. To think that he is not concerned about all of us Prime customers is absurd. It is the same Jim and the same company that called nearly everyone of us after an order was placed with them.

Frank has hit the nail on the head, the silence is not because we have been abandoned, but more so protection for all parties involved; to include the customer. We will all know sooner than later is my guess. Until then, do know, the customers are still the number 1 in Prime's mind.

 

[superde]

Very well worded Frank. Good seeing you at SHOT btw.

 

[clcustom1911]

I have a very close contact at Prime and, yes, things are being sorted out. Lawyers are involved, so we'll call that a clue as to how quick things move....